What Do the Bodies Tell Us?

[AngelVsion]

I read a story about two of the boys, MM and CB. I don't know how true it is. http://www.midsouthjustice.com/poopoo.htm
according to the statement, the boys were naked and throwing their feces at each other.
The boys in this report were intentionally naked. Perhaps they were talked into doing it again or forced to, since the murders were a month after?
Ausgir, I agree, l the jeans turned inside out, is a mystery, and does not make sense, because one pair was not turned inside out, unless it was staged, as suggested.
CR I agree after re-watching the PL#3 and West Of Memphis, it was proven by the forensic professionals that all the cutting, and "gouging" was after death, by animals.
I can't find any information about the skateboard? Could this have been the weapon that cause blunt force?? Also, It is hard for me to imagine children at age 8, and this young being able to control a bike with two on it.. I keep thinking about that. Perhaps if they were older, but it seems a little far fetch, and other witnesses seen the boys with one bike and the two running behind it.. At first I thought DM was the only real witness to place the boys together at 6:00, but if she says now or 2002, she saw DE enter the RH Woods, than we know that is false.
We know that SB had food, two to 3 hours before the attack that's a fact.

I really wish that AH could remember, she would be the only credible witness, but she stated she can't remember her early childhood. Poor girl, sounds like it was a nightmare.

 

[Justiceseeker35]

I read a story about two of the boys, MM and CB. I don't know how true it is. http://www.midsouthjustice.com/poopoo.htm
according to the statement, the boys were naked and throwing their feces at each other.
The boys in this report were intentionally naked. Perhaps they were talked into doing it again or forced to, since the murders were a month after?
Ausgir, I agree, l the jeans turned inside out, is a mystery, and does not make sense, because one pair was not turned inside out, unless it was staged, as suggested.
CR I agree after re-watching the PL#3 and West Of Memphis, it was proven by the forensic professionals that all the cutting, and "gouging" was after death, by animals.
I can't find any information about the skateboard? Could this have been the weapon that cause blunt force?? Also, It is hard for me to imagine children at age 8, and this young being able to control a bike with two on it.. I keep thinking about that. Perhaps if they were older, but it seems a little far fetch, and other witnesses seen the boys with one bike and the two running behind it.. At first I thought DM was the only real witness to place the boys together at 6:00, but if she says now or 2002, she saw DE enter the RH Woods, than we know that is false.
We know that SB had food, two to 3 hours before the attack that's a fact.

I really wish that AH could remember, she would be the only credible witness, but she stated she can't remember her early childhood. Poor girl, sounds like it was a nightmare.

The only thing I can think about the food was that PH was making dinner and SB likely knew he was going to be going out bike riding till late and grabbed a few spoon fulls. PH either forgot he did or he did it when his Mom wasn't looking.
That's a good point about the skate board. It could have been used, I don't know if it was ever recovered or stayed behind at CB's house.

 

[giagreen]

Wasn't there a truck stop close to where the boys where found? Could a trucker have done this in his truck? I think it would be pretty easy to lure a couple young boys into a truck. I'm surprised this has never been brought up unless if I missed why this couldn't be a possibility.

 

[Userid]

Wasn't there a truck stop close to where the boys where found? Could a trucker have done this in his truck? I think it would be pretty easy to lure a couple young boys into a truck. I'm surprised this has never been brought up unless if I missed why this couldn't be a possibility.

Yes -- and it has been brought up before.

A trucker, however, most likely would not have known the area where the boys (and the bikes, which were found in the bayou away from the ditch) were found though....how could he have?

 

[giagreen]

Yes -- and it has been brought up before.

A trucker, however, most likely would not have known the area where the boys (and the bikes, which were found in the bayou away from the ditch) were found though....how could he have?

I don't know the area well enough to know how difficult it would be to get to from the truck stop.

But I use to go out a lot on the road with my ex. A lot of truckers tend to get layovers in the same place. With my ex there were about three stops we use to make on a regulare basis. And when truckers get layovers they have to stop for 48 hours at a time to restart. Sometimes longer. IMO this would give a trucker the time to get to know the area. And with being bored esp back when smart phones and WiFi were not an option this would lead to a bored trucker getting out of his truck and going exploring.

 

[Justiceseeker35]

Ok so I read this testimony about the knots. http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/ebtrial/lsakevicius.html
And I don't know a whole lot about knots but it might mean something really important. Note the CB's knots were all tied the same way. As opposed to the other two kids who had a variety of knots tied in the ligatures. Does this mean anything? Perhaps he tied them the same because he knew the victim CB wasn't going to move or struggle against them or had more time to do them methodically because he wasn't alive anymore when he was tied. IDK any takers?

 

[Userid]

Ok so I read this testimony about the knots. http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/ebtrial/lsakevicius.html
And I don't know a whole lot about knots but it might mean something really important. Note the CB's knots were all tied the same way. As opposed to the other two kids who had a variety of knots tied in the ligatures. Does this mean anything? Perhaps he tied them the same because he knew the victim CB wasn't going to move or struggle against them or had more time to do them methodically because he wasn't alive anymore when he was tied. IDK any takers?

No offense, but I already said as much in post number 67 in this thread on page 3. So, yeah, you have a taker, in a sense -- even though you're giving me back my original thought.

I believe this because I don't believe in the transportation theory.

And as I stated before, I think CB was the first one attacked; and I think MM was the last one attacked -- if it was indeed just one killer.

 

[Cher Lockhomes]

AngelVsion:

I really wish that AH could remember, she would be the only credible witness, but she stated she can't remember her early childhood. Poor girl, sounds like it was a nightmare.

Yes AH should think about hypnosis, if she really wants to light out those dark corners. Easier said than done though. It's always a bit of a risk if you haven't got the faintest what's going to hit you.

If some trucker goes around killing children in his spare time, then I would object to calling him a trucker. I think "serial killer" would be the appropriate name.

Regarding the bindings, I was thinking more of "transportation" in a common way. The "body in a plastic bag or sack" sort of thing we usually see in films. What I mean is, it would be possible to carry the bodies a short distance using the shoelace bindings (like from the side of the ditch into the water). If you wanted to transport the bodies from further away, in the boot of a car for instance, then you would be hiding the bodies, and making sure the limbs were not flying around.

 

[Justiceseeker35]

No offense, but I already said as much in post number 67 in this thread on page 3. So, yeah, you have a taker, in a sense -- even though you're giving me back my original thought.

I believe this because I don't believe in the transportation theory.

And as I stated before, I think CB was the first one attacked; and I think MM was the last one attacked -- if it was indeed just one killer.

I totally agree. CB was the only one with an "ovoid punched out fracture" right at the back of the head which means he was dealt coux de grace. Why him? Do you think, if it was TH, that he regarded him as some kind of snitch? If Amanda and SB confided in him about abuse and he started talking with his Mother who is thinking CB was undergoing some kind of abuse possibly sex abuse then maybe TH had caught wind of it. Something happened to enrage him for sure.

I can't believe the prosecution was saying he died from blood loss from knife. It should have been obvious to a pro what CB's cod was.

 

[Userid]

I totally agree. If CB was attacked first and died first then why him? Do you think, if it was TH, that he regarded him as some kind of snitch? If Amanda and SB confided in him about abuse and he started talking with his Mother who is thinking CB was undergoing some kind of abuse possibly sex abuse then maybe TH had caught wind of it. Something happened to enrage him for sure. CB got the worst of the head wounds, SB the worst face wounds and MM mostly head wounds but not as bad.

One thing I always found curious was that, many witnesses saw CB alone -- with some even saying the time was 6:30 that they saw him alone. And others have stated they saw MM and SB without CB. Now, you must be careful when taking these sightings, and especially the times (in that there are so many inconsistencies between when sun-down actually occurred between witnesses) into account.

The thing about CB was that he supposedly had a serious case of ADD. I remember stumbling across an old forum while I was searching for CB's brother, and in that forum there was a person who claimed to have known CB's family growing up. He was CB's brother's friend, and he'd go to CB's house a lot to swim in their pool. Basically, he said that CB's father would beat CB so bad, that his family would actually try and keep CB away some nights, because they felt sorry for him. One night, they took him to a Walmart (something like that), but they said CB's behavior was so off-the-wall, they both (he and his mom) couldn't take it and had to drop him back home. I am normally very skeptical when it comes to people on message boards claiming they knew the victims, but this person was very knowledgeable and almost everyone on that forum believed him as well (for what that's worth). I can't remember the site, now.

Anyways, I think that, if CB was alone, he was going to meet SB and MM at the woods. Perhaps the killer(s) trailed CB to the woods, and CB arrived there before the other 2 boys. Or, even if all 3 boys arrived at the woods at the same time, I would imagine that CB, due to his ADD, was even more frantic than the other 2 at the time -- and the killer(s) first priority became to "control" him before the others because of his frenzy.

I also believe that the woods could have been both the abduction site and the dump site. The abduction might have taken place near the Goodwin entrance of the woods, near were the boys were last seen.

You seem to be eagle-eyed on TH being the perpetrator -- I'm not condemning you for that stance, necessarily -- but personally speaking, I try to keep an open mind and look at the evidence before I have a suspect in mind. TH can not be ruled out here, I agree -- but neither can anyone. Don't try to force the evidence fit TH; let it speak for itself.

 

[Ausgirl]

Ok so I read this testimony about the knots. http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/ebtrial/lsakevicius.html
And I don't know a whole lot about knots but it might mean something really important. Note the CB's knots were all tied the same way. As opposed to the other two kids who had a variety of knots tied in the ligatures. Does this mean anything? Perhaps he tied them the same because he knew the victim CB wasn't going to move or struggle against them or had more time to do them methodically because he wasn't alive anymore when he was tied. IDK any takers?

Here's what I know about knots and bindings:

Half hitches aren't very secure, even if there's several in a row. If you can get a finger under the tied loop (or pull the loop with your teeth), you could feasibly slide the half hitch knots along the cord and loosen the binding. And they also can cause a loop to tighten very easily around a limb if the cord is pulled.

A square knot would make the bindings 'hold' and help prevent slipping in either direction (loosening or tightening).

 

[Compassionate Reader]

I think it's possible that the bindings did loosen somewhat during transport. That could be why they didn't seem tight enough for transport when discovered. As to the skateboard, JMB and CB's brother (Ryan) found it in the street IIRC. So, I don't believe it was the weapon that caused any of the blunt force trauma. As to CB being spotted separately from MM and SB, IIRC, CB didn't hook up with SB and MM until probably around 5:45 pm. He was with his father (JMB) around 5:30 pm, IIRC, and received a spanking for riding on his skateboard on his stomach down the middle of the street. IMO, that could be when he decided to actually join SB and MM and possibly run away himself. IMO, it's also possible that his stint in the Hobbs house watching TV could have been to keep an eye out for TH - to make sure that SB and MM got away safely. JMO.

 

[Ausgirl]

It'd be a pretty crappy "experienced slaughterman" who couldn't tie a secure knot, IMO. If the binding did indeed slip. I doubt the square knots did, that's what square knots are for. But the other knots are not so secure. If they slipped, they likely would only have tightened the ligatures, however. Sadly, the info on the knots is pretty sparse.

Anyway, I don't see someone using half hitches as very skilled with binding *anything* that's alive, unwilling and potentially moving (and capable of escape). It's the wrong knot for that. Amateur stuff.

 

[easongt]

I'm not always right. In fact for the majority of my life I believed there was a conspiracy in the assassination of JFK. Then in recent years.... the more I read... the more I believe Oswald did it... alone. He just got lucky.

With that said... I think the WM3 are indeed guilty. This is my opinion. I just think it takes 2-3 people to round up 3 little boys and keep them from running. Maybe it's because I'm older... maybe it's just Occam's Razor to me.

 

[Compassionate Reader]

It'd be a pretty crappy "experienced slaughterman" who couldn't tie a secure knot, IMO. If the binding did indeed slip. I doubt the square knots did, that's what square knots are for. But the other knots are not so secure. If they slipped, they likely would only have tightened the ligatures, however. Sadly, the info on the knots is pretty sparse.

Anyway, I don't see someone using half hitches as very skilled with binding *anything* that's alive, unwilling and potentially moving (and capable of escape). It's the wrong knot for that. Amateur stuff.

Maybe he was in a hurry. Slaughtered hogs don't have to be carried very far after being bound either. I don't think that, if the bindings were for restraint or control, they would have been half-hitches. Remember, a square knot is just two half-hitches, tied starting with opposite ends of the rope.

 

[Ausgirl]

So he was experienced with securely hogtying animals, and this counts towards his possible guilt - but just sloppy on that day, when his 'prey' getting away or not would have been of paramount importance compared to that of a pig. And in such a hurry he's used the most insecure knots possible in the majority of places. But then took the time to carefully poke all the clothes down in the mud?

Just doesn't sit well with me.

 

[Userid]

^ Yeah, to me, it doesn't take strong knowledge to tie any of those knots. I used to think the knots were significant, and they very well may still be, but the longer I research the case, the more I think that all they signify was that they were done haphazardly (randomly) and hurried -- which would fall in line with the theory that this was a spur-of-the-moment murder with little to no premeditation. I don't abide by the assumption that the killer(s) used 3 different knots to throw off police; nor do I abide by the assumption that the knots definitively prove more than one killer. Just my opinion, of course.

 

[Justiceseeker35]

^ Yeah, to me, it doesn't take strong knowledge to tie any of those knots. I used to think the knots were significant, and they very well may still be, but the longer I research the case, the more I think that all they signify was that they were done haphazardly (randomly) and hurried -- which would fall in line with the theory that this was a spur-of-the-moment murder with little to no premeditation. I don't abide by the assumption that the killer(s) used 3 different knots to throw off police; nor do I abide by the assumption that the knots definitively prove more than one killer. Just my opinion, of course.

So lets say the killer does have knowledge of knots but.. he's in a hurry to wrap it up before dark and before anyone comes looking. He's got two kids that are in and out of consciousness/struggling and one child no longer with us. He's going to hurriedly tie the knots on the living kids to best keep them from getting away and/or saving themselves from the water but he can't be thorough enough to keep them consistent. The last child he can take a little more time because he's not going to wake up or struggle with him so he does all the knots the same way.

 

[Userid]

So lets say the killer does have knowledge of knots but.. he's in a hurry to wrap it up before dark and before anyone comes looking. He's got two kids that are in and out of consciousness/struggling and one child no longer with us. He's going to hurriedly tie the knots on the living kids to best keep them from getting away and/or saving themselves from the water but he can't be thorough enough to keep them consistent. The last child he can take a little more time because he's not going to wake up or struggle with him so he does all the knots the same way.

No -- I think the other 2 would have taken longer than the last boy. The last boy only had 2 half-hitches on each limb -- that would have been very easy to do and done more quickly than the other 2. But yes, the killer(s) would have known that the last boy was dead and would not have put as much effort into the knots than the other 2 (which, again, would have made it faster).

The fact that all the knots were the same on the last boy is irrelevant in my view. I don't believe it was thought out, and the fact they were the same is more coincidental than anything.

 

[Justiceseeker35]

No -- I think the other 2 would have taken longer than the last boy. The last boy only had 2 half-hitches on each limb -- that would have been very easy to do and done more quickly than the other 2. But yes, the killer(s) would have known that the last boy was dead and would not have put as much effort into the knots than the other 2 (which, again, would have made it faster).

The fact that all the knots were the same on the last boy is irrelevant in my view. I don't believe it was thought out, and the fact they were the same is more coincidental than anything.

Gotch ya so the last child would be the one that needs to least complicated knots and basically just knotted for "show" or consistency. So he quickly knots him because time is running out.