What does Kolar say about

[Whaleshark]

I learned, over the course of my inquiry, that it was Burke who had actually been responsible for tearing back the paper of the presents while playing in the basement on Christmas Day, and I wondered why Patsy would claim responsibility for doing this. Patsy had also told investigators that the unwrapped box of Lego toys in the same room was being hidden for Burke’s upcoming January birthday.[/I]
Foreign Faction, Who Really Kidnapped JonBenet? James Kolar, page 339

This is extremely significant. Proof #1 of her covering for something he did in relation to the events of the crime....

My book is on order already. Very interested to read the rest of the missing pieces of the puzzle.

 

[madeleine]

This is extremely significant. Proof #1 of her covering for something he did in relation to the events of the crime....

My book is on order already. Very interested to read the rest of the missing pieces of the puzzle.

she covered for him being with JB in the kitchen that evening by saying that the bowl with his prints on it isn't theirs - proof nr.2?

we always assumed that the lie re Burke being asleep that morning was made up in order to protect themselves/Burke might know/have heard something and they didn't want anyone questioning him re this....what if it's the other way around and they wanted to protect HIM?

 

[Feebot]

SyraKelly,

You might be forgiven here, if you thought John Ramsey was conducting a comedy class, after all why does it matter to the intruder if the chair is pulled back, since the intruders absence tells you he is gone. No number of chairs in front of the door can suggest otherwise!

I've always thought Lou Smits questions to John Ramsey were pre-scripted, a run through of the obvious but difficult questions he would have to face, Lou Smit never contradicts the R's.

You know Lou Smit and John had several private prayer sessions. Who knows what was said, but Lou Smit could hardly be characterised as a naive Christian, his promotion of the IDI and a crazed pedophile with a fetish for garrotes certainly skewed the case big time, especially with the media who lapped it all up, including JonBenet's adult themed pageant videos.

.

Forgive me, but what does IDI stand for? Thank you.

 

[Noodles]

Forgive me, but what does IDI stand for? Thank you.

Intruder Did It.

 

[SunVenus]

Forgive me, but what does IDI stand for? Thank you.

Hi Feebot--

IDI is Websleuth shorthand for "Intruder Did It". When I first found this forum I stmbled across a thread that is awfully helpful with stuff like this, but now I'm not finding it. I'll look again & edit this post when I locate it.

Edited to add: I can't find that thead. Any "old timers" want to help us out?

 

[Whaleshark]

she covered for him being with JB in the kitchen that evening by saying that the bowl with his prints on it isn't theirs - proof nr.2?

we always assumed that the lie re Burke being asleep that morning was made up in order to protect themselves/Burke might know/have heard something and they didn't want anyone questioning him re this....what if it's the other way around and they wanted to protect HIM?

Right..... according to them: JonBenet was put straight to bed, so there was no playing between Burke and JonBenet that night, and then he was put to bed by John after they put something together...and he never heard anything that night, even though his room was next to hers, and he didn't hear anything downstairs, even though he could hear the fridge door open from his room - fast asleep he was supposed to be .... never heard anything that morning, and was asleep when they 'checked on him', and was not even around them when they made the 911 call.... no voice of his could possibly be overheard on call either....

Except all of that is contradicted with the truth....

And the parents are removing him from the picture completely....ie, protecting him from any involvement / blame....

 

[ILikeToBendPages]

Right..... according to them: JonBenet was put straight to bed, so there was no playing between Burke and JonBenet that night, and then he was put to bed by John after they put something together...and he never heard anything that night, even though his room was next to hers, and he didn't hear anything downstairs, even though he could hear the fridge door open from his room - fast asleep he was supposed to be .... never heard anything that morning, and was asleep when they 'checked on him', and was not even around them when they made the 911 call.... no voice of his could possibly be overheard on call either....

Except all of that is contradicted with the truth....

And the parents are removing him from the picture completely....ie, protecting him from any involvement / blame....

The bedroom next to Jonbenet's was Melinda. Burke and JAR across from them and had rooms closer together. But still John said that they left doors cracked a little in both the kids bedrooms and I'd think if anything happened in her bedroom or bathroom Burke would of heard it.

John also said the Christmas presents for others (Melinda and JAR?) had been taken to the plane Christmas Eve.

Also I took John talking about the last stop dropping off presents that night was fifteen minutes away, then there would of been the fifteen minutes for the drive back. It seems like they dropped off those close to home and then went home. Wasn't that kinda late to be dropping off any presents that night?

 

[eileenhawkeye]

The bedroom next to Jonbenet's was Melinda. Burke and JAR across from them and had rooms closer together. But still John said that they left doors cracked a little in both the kids bedrooms and I'd think if anything happened in her bedroom or bathroom Burke would of heard it.

John also said the Christmas presents for others (Melinda and JAR?) had been taken to the plane Christmas Eve.

Also I took John talking about the last stop dropping off presents that night was fifteen minutes away, then there would of been the fifteen minutes for the drive back. It seems like they dropped off those close to home and then went home. Wasn't that kinda late to be dropping off any presents that night?

They said they got home at 9 PM. I don't think that's too late to be going around to houses. It was Christmas, and most people would still be up.

 

[txsvicki]

The bedroom next to Jonbenet's was Melinda. Burke and JAR across from them and had rooms closer together. But still John said that they left doors cracked a little in both the kids bedrooms and I'd think if anything happened in her bedroom or bathroom Burke would of heard it.

John also said the Christmas presents for others (Melinda and JAR?) had been taken to the plane Christmas Eve.

Also I took John talking about the last stop dropping off presents that night was fifteen minutes away, then there would of been the fifteen minutes for the drive back. It seems like they dropped off those close to home and then went home. Wasn't that kinda late to be dropping off any presents that night?

I thought it was late since it was christmas which is usually a family time and the ramseys had to get up very early the next morning. Running around with tired kids knocking on doors after dark seems weird to me. I also thought it weird that they horned in on another family during christmas instead of having their own time together. Then they call all these friends over, people they hadn't known too awfully long, over when jonbenet was thought missing. An odd bunch of folks imo

 

[redheadedgal]

Forgive me, but what does IDI stand for? Thank you.

Edited to add: I can't find that thead. Any "old timers" want to help us out?

for some reason it's on the missing forum home page:

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=116963"]NEW Websleuths Lingo - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]


:seeya:

 

[cynic]

These statements right here was when I knew.
I was so mad after reading this last year, that after quietly reading the forums for years and trying to figure out who did this, this told me everything I needed to know.
I started actively participating for the first time the night I read this - and I was off the fence forever - Feb 2011.

JOHN RAMSEY: Yeah. It was blocked. He'd have to move something to get into the room.
LOU SMIT: And he would have had to move it back, if he was in there trying to get out, is that correct?
JOHN RAMSEY: Yeah.
LOU SMIT: So that's not very logical as far as –
JOHN RAMSEY: I think it is. I mean if this person is that bizarrely clever to have not left any good evidence, but left all these little funny little clues around, they certain are clever enough to pull the chair back when they left.
____

Thanks for that, Whaleshark.
It seems that the shortest road to RDI is through a look at the statements made by the Ramseys.
I'm not sure whether you have Kolar's book yet, but in it he tells us that it was reading through a particular section of a LE interview that took him off the fence.

It seemed a simple realization, but it dawned on me that Patsy had reported that she had never finished reading the ransom note before rushing upstairs and screaming for John. Yet, she was able to recite the name of the kidnappers during the panicked and hysterical 911telphone call to police that morning. She explained in her April 1997 interview that she had looked at the note when the dispatcher asked her if the kidnappers had identified themselves. I wasn’t buying the explanation. John Ramsey, according to his statement, was on his hands and knees hovering over the note as he tried to read through it.50 He was facing west, and the note was spread from left to right. Patsy was on the phone about four – five feet away and would have been required to read the note upside down - that is, if she had been able to look through her husband.
It was a significant turning point for me and could be described as one of those “ah haa” moments when the truth has finally been revealed to the seeker.
Foreign Faction, Who Really Kidnapped JonBenet, James Kolar, page 254

 

[UKGuy]

Forgive me, but what does IDI stand for? Thank you.

Feebot,
Welcome aboard the fine ship Websleuths.

IDI = Intruder Did I.t

BDI = Burke Did It.

PDI = Patsy Did It.

JDI = John Did It.

RDI = Ramsey's Did It.

There are others but these are the main shorthand letters for those phrases.


.

 

[UKGuy]

Thanks for that, Whaleshark.
It seems that the shortest road to RDI is through a look at the statements made by the Ramseys.
I'm not sure whether you have Kolar's book yet, but in it he tells us that it was reading through a particular section of a LE interview that took him off the fence.

It seemed a simple realization, but it dawned on me that Patsy had reported that she had never finished reading the ransom note before rushing upstairs and screaming for John. Yet, she was able to recite the name of the kidnappers during the panicked and hysterical 911telphone call to police that morning. She explained in her April 1997 interview that she had looked at the note when the dispatcher asked her if the kidnappers had identified themselves. I wasn’t buying the explanation. John Ramsey, according to his statement, was on his hands and knees hovering over the note as he tried to read through it.50 He was facing west, and the note was spread from left to right. Patsy was on the phone about four – five feet away and would have been required to read the note upside down - that is, if she had been able to look through her husband.
It was a significant turning point for me and could be described as one of those “ah haa” moments when the truth has finally been revealed to the seeker.
Foreign Faction, Who Really Kidnapped JonBenet, James Kolar, page 254

cynic,
Like a lot of other Ramsey stuff it never happened. If it had they like Kolar or Whaleshark, would have seen the points of impossibility.

For me the balance has swung to BDI, e.g parents involved in a full scale cover up!



.

 

[SapphireSteel]

I can't believe people can look at the crazy staring eyes of PR, hear her language, see her affect, and think her 9 year old son was the guilty party.

Can you not see this woman's psychopathy written all over her? Seriously?

 

[madeleine]

For me the balance has swung to BDI, e.g parents involved in a full scale cover up!



.

same here
and BDI IMO it's the only scenario that really explains the parents behavior and them sticking together till the end.if it would have been one of them eventually one would have blamed the other,in private at least.
even if it would have been IDI,they would have blamed each other,hey it was you who the kidnapper targeted,no,it was you taking her to the beauty pageants,etc...no doubt about it.

 

[SapphireSteel]

same here
and BDI IMO it's the only scenario that really explains the parents behavior and them sticking together till the end.if it would have been one of them eventually one would have blamed the other,in private at least.
even if it would have been IDI,they would have blamed each other,hey it was you who the kidnapper targeted,no,it was you taking her to the beauty pageants,etc...no doubt about it.

I doubt there was much of anything at all in private.

The investigators said they were in separate rooms, all the way along. No hugs, no whispers, no nothing, from the first moment they arrived. Even when the "kidnappers" were supposed to be calling...separate rooms.

I think they are each as guilty as one another, maybe in different ways, maybe not, but seriously...there were two psychopaths in that house, and it wasn't those innocent kids.

Why is it so hard to believe they were both heavily invested in not only protecting themselves, but protecting Brand Ramsey...the entire farce they were living. PR especially was all about appearances. She still had leaflets in her house of her last "open". I mean can you imagine actually having leaflets of your own HOME printed up, to give anyone? Wierd.

JMO

 

[madeleine]

are all 3 weird?IMO YES
PR is a drama queen who likes to play victim
JR is pretty creepy too
BR is a kid with problems

IMO

does the above make them killers? not necessarily,
BUT I think one of them did it
AND IMO the EVIDENCE,their BEHAVIOR and what I learned lately from the new book makes me really go back to thinking it's the most probable scenario.(BDI)

 

[madeleine]

but seriously...there were two psychopaths in that house, and it wasn't those innocent kids.

we are getting nowhere with statements like this IMO

 

[madeleine]

http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=96408&page=3

for those who believe young boys aren't capable of horrible things...and those are only a FEW examples!

 

[madeleine]

doesn't he look cute and innocent?

but



http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/12/10/48hours/main660314.shtml

At 13, Smith was at the center of a media storm. His redheaded looks, and his age, were so completely at odds with his horrific crime that he almost got away with murder.

-------------

Smith attracted Robie to a remote location in a park. There Smith strangled Robie, dropped a pair of large rocks on the boy’s head, undressed his body, and sodomized him with a tree limb. The cause of death was determined to be blunt trauma to the head with contributing asphyxia. Two days after Robie's funeral, Smith admitted to Robie's killing. In 1994 Smith was convicted of second-degree murder and sentenced to the maximum term then available for juvenile murderers — a minimum of nine years to life in prison.