What evidence does the prosecution have?

[AJ Noiter]

Hey, if this all went down at a Dunkin Donuts, we would not even need to discuss it. There would have been plenty of LE witnesses.

I am a donut and pipe tobacco aficionado. I can tell you 2 things factually.

1) Donuts are holes with pastry built around them.
2) Donuts and tobacco do not mix well.

That is all.

 

[K_Z]

Curious, Who and where was this "stippling" visible to?

IIRC, the initial responding officers started CPR after GZ was disarmed. Paramedics arrived soon after, and took over the CPR and trauma assessment of TM. In that process, they would have exposed his chest for purposes of evaluating the location of the GSW entry site, as well as using a cardiac monitor/ defibrillator to evaluate cardiac function. (Among many other activities occurring simultaneously.) Exposing the chest and evaluating the extent of cardiac electrical activity is a necessary initial step for paramedics, and is included in well-defined, very detailed EMS protocols, and is also necessary to establish documentation of asystole for pronouncing death at the scene. I am betting that the paramedics in this instance were also in continuous contact immediately with the ER docs, and once the full evaluation was communicated (GSW location, response to CPR, asystole, etc), they were given permission to suspend lifesaving efforts and pronounce at the scene.

So, there is likely a couple of ways Detective Gilbreath could have learned about the stippling on the body, from a source other than the autopsy report (which will include descriptions of the entry wound.)

Gilbreath probably has read the "run report" medical record produced by the paramedics, which probably included that detail. He likely would also have talked directly to the paramedics and officers who were there, and heard them describe the "stippling" that is characteristic of a close range GSW. Possibly also spoke to docs and nurses who were in communication with the paramedics at the scene.

I'd also add, it's worth remembering that CPR cannot be effective is there is no intact heart and/ or great vessels. CPR will not produce a pulse in this situation-- the heart is empty. CPR relies on a closed "central" system to move blood with compressions. All of the best CPR in the field cannot save someone with a shredded heart, and/ or great vessels, who is in asystole. That is why he was pronounced in the field, and not given CPR and urgently transported. He probably had no electrical activity by the time paramedics evaluated, also (aysytole-- which in chest trauma is more a confirmation of death than a "rhythm" disturbance to be treated.) Aystole in the field from a GSW at close range to the chest is not survivable.

Powder burns and stippling:

This link contains pics of GSW in clothing worn by victims who have been shot.
http://www.firearmsid.com/A_distanceGSR.htm

*Warning- this source contains links to autopsy pics of GSWs, which may be unsettling to some. The text contains no actual pictures.
http://library.med.utah.edu/WebPath/TUTORIAL/GUNS/GUNINJ.html

(For the mods-- I am new to WS, and I have submitted my credentials as a health care professional for verification.)

 

[Dr.Fessel]

SANFORD – As the world eagerly awaits the release of never-before-seen evidence in the case against George Zimmerman, employees for Special Prosecutor Angela Corey late this afternoon provided a preview in the form of an eight-page document.

The paperwork, filed with the Seminole County clerk as closing time approached, listed several witnesses the state plans to call and identified several pieces of the evidence prosecutors expect to use in their scond-degree murder case against Zimmerman.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...rosecutor-angela-corey-evidence-rachel-fugate

 

[Dr.Fessel]

Looks like both Taaffe and Oliver will be called to the stand. Maybe they were working for the cops the whole time or maybe just to testify to what George told them. imo

 

[Reader]

SANFORD – As the world eagerly awaits the release of never-before-seen evidence in the case against George Zimmerman, employees for Special Prosecutor Angela Corey late this afternoon provided a preview in the form of an eight-page document.

The paperwork, filed with the Seminole County clerk as closing time approached, listed several witnesses the state plans to call and identified several pieces of the evidence prosecutors expect to use in their scond-degree murder case against Zimmerman.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...rosecutor-angela-corey-evidence-rachel-fugate

Woo, woo! Also from your link:

The document listed 18 Sanford police officers as primary witnesses, including lead Investigator Chris Serino. Corey's office also turned over five reports prepared by him, as well as written reports prepared by four other Sanford officers.

Also included in the evidence, according to the new filing, are phone records — Zimmerman's from March 7 to March 22, Trayvon's from January 1 through March 1, and those of an unnamed witness labeled "W8" from February 26 through April 2. Zimmerman's medical records are listed, as are records of his 2005 arrest and domestic-violence injunctions.

Another witness, W8, gave two statements, one to Benjamin Crump, an attorney for Trayvon's family, and one to de la Rionda, which suggests W8 may be the girl described by Crump as Trayvon's girlfriend.

Other primary witnesses include four FDLE investigators and three investigators from the office of state attorney Norm Wolfinger plus two from Corey's office, including Dale Gilbreath,...........

 

[Dr.Fessel]

Woo, woo! Also from your link:

According to the documents, prosecutors also have new video evidence from the night of the shooting — both from the 7-Eleven store where Trayvon purchased Skittles and Arizona iced tea, and from the clubhouse of Retreat at Twin Lakes, the apartment complex where the teen was killed.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...rosecutor-angela-corey-evidence-rachel-fugate

 

[Reader]

IIRC, the initial responding officers started CPR after GZ was disarmed. Paramedics arrived soon after, and took over the CPR and trauma assessment of TM. In that process, they would have exposed his chest for purposes of evaluating the location of the GSW entry site, as well as using a cardiac monitor/ defibrillator to evaluate cardiac function. (Among many other activities occurring simultaneously.) Exposing the chest and evaluating the extent of cardiac electrical activity is a necessary initial step for paramedics, and is included in well-defined, very detailed EMS protocols, and is also necessary to establish documentation of asystole for pronouncing death at the scene. I am betting that the paramedics in this instance were also in continuous contact immediately with the ER docs, and once the full evaluation was communicated (GSW location, response to CPR, asystole, etc), they were given permission to suspend lifesaving efforts and pronounce at the scene.

So, there is likely a couple of ways Detective Gilbreath could have learned about the stippling on the body, from a source other than the autopsy report (which will include descriptions of the entry wound.)

Gilbreath probably has read the "run report" medical record produced by the paramedics, which probably included that detail. He likely would also have talked directly to the paramedics and officers who were there, and heard them describe the "stippling" that is characteristic of a close range GSW. Possibly also spoke to docs and nurses who were in communication with the paramedics at the scene.

I'd also add, it's worth remembering that CPR cannot be effective is there is no intact heart and/ or great vessels. CPR will not produce a pulse in this situation-- the heart is empty. CPR relies on a closed "central" system to move blood with compressions. All of the best CPR in the field cannot save someone with a shredded heart, and/ or great vessels, who is in asystole. That is why he was pronounced in the field, and not given CPR and urgently transported. He probably had no electrical activity by the time paramedics evaluated, also (aysytole-- which in chest trauma is more a confirmation of death than a "rhythm" disturbance to be treated.) Aystole in the field from a GSW at close range to the chest is not survivable.
Powder burns and stippling:

This link contains pics of GSW in clothing worn by victims who have been shot.
http://www.firearmsid.com/A_distanceGSR.htm

*Warning- this source contains links to autopsy pics of GSWs, which may be unsettling to some. The text contains no actual pictures.
http://library.med.utah.edu/WebPath/TUTORIAL/GUNS/GUNINJ.html

(For the mods-- I am new to WS, and I have submitted my credentials as a health care professional for verification.)

It is so disturbing to know the horrendous wound that Trayvon suffered and had no chance of surviving..a shredded heart..this makes me so sad for him and his parents and friends...no matter what happened between them in their confrontation, it is my belief that GZ did not have to kill Trayvon to stop it and was not really in fear...he was just determined he was 'going to get one of those ********' to show LE what he could do....such an unnecessary, tragic and criminal death! All IMO....

 

[Dr.Fessel]

I have a feeling the club house tape is going to put to rest the truck circling story. Very well could prove he is lying.
imo

 

[LambChop]

I have a feeling the club house tape is going to put to rest the truck circling story. Very well could prove he is lying.
imo

I would think, too, if GZ parked ahead of TM, TM would have had to have passed GZ's car in the street because there are no sidewalks. I doubt if TM would walk in the wet grass and get his sneakers wet just to avoid GZ. jmo

 

[Dr.Fessel]

I have a feeling George never knew about the club house tapes when he gave his statements. This could be really interesting. imo

 

[suspicious1]

I have a feeling George never knew about the club house tapes when he gave his statements. This could be really interesting. imo

Doc, I was thinking the same thing....

or GZ knew there were cameras but didn't know they actually worked.

This could very well be a problem for him...I hope so.

JMO

 

[Omachka]

SANFORD – As the world eagerly awaits the release of never-before-seen evidence in the case against George Zimmerman, employees for Special Prosecutor Angela Corey late this afternoon provided a preview in the form of an eight-page document.

The paperwork, filed with the Seminole County clerk as closing time approached, listed several witnesses the state plans to call and identified several pieces of the evidence prosecutors expect to use in their scond-degree murder case against Zimmerman.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...rosecutor-angela-corey-evidence-rachel-fugate

Also from your link:

Also listed as witnesses are a New Jersey forensics expert, two employees with the Volusia County medical examiner's office and a pair of Federal Bureau of Investigation audio experts. The list also includes Tom Owen and Ed Primeau, two audio analysts who told the Sentinel they believe the screams heard in one 911 call were those of Trayvon, not Zimmerman.

BBM I wonder if the FBI audio experts agree with the 2 who told the Sentinel that the screams were those of Trayvon.

Without having seen any of this evidence, it seems that the prosecution actually does have quite a lot more against Zimmerman than we previously knew about.

 

[suspicious1]

Looks like both Taaffe and Oliver will be called to the stand. Maybe they were working for the cops the whole time or maybe just to testify to what George told them. imo

Oh Lord....not Frank T. :floorlaugh:

IMO, they are going to destroy GZ on the stand...they are of no help...him or Oliver.
JMO

 

[Dr.Fessel]

Most names were redacted from witness and evidence document obtained by the Orlando Sentinel, but six civilian witnesses were named: Trayvon's parents, Sybrina Fulton and Tracy Martin; his brother, Jahvarius Fulton; and Zimmerman's neighbor, Frank Taaffe, friend Joe Oliver and father, Robert Zimmerman.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...rosecutor-angela-corey-evidence-rachel-fugate



I knew they were making a mistake when they said George told me. LOL LOL

 

[Emma Peel]

Finally.
A doc dump (of sorts) is on its way.
:skip: :skip: :skip:

 

[Dr.Fessel]

Looks like more evidence might be on the way. imo
..............................................................................................

FBI seeks to charge George Zimmerman with hate crime

SANFORD, Fla. —

WFTV has learned charges against George Zimmerman could be getting more serious.

State prosecutors said Zimmerman, a neighborhood watchman, profiled and stalked 17-year-old Trayvon Martin before killing him, so the FBI is now looking into charging him with a hate crime.

http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/fbi-seeks-charge-george-zimmerman-hate-crime/nN5pR/

 

[Emma Peel]

Most names were redacted from witness and evidence document obtained by the Orlando Sentinel, but six civilian witnesses were named: Trayvon's parents, Sybrina Fulton and Tracy Martin; his brother, Jahvarius Fulton; and Zimmerman's neighbor, Frank Taaffe, friend Joe Oliver and father, Robert Zimmerman.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...rosecutor-angela-corey-evidence-rachel-fugate



I knew they were making a mistake when they said George told me. LOL LOL

:yes: you did, didn't you. :highfive:

 

[Reader]

Oh Lord....not Frank T. :floorlaugh:

IMO, they are going to destroy GZ on the stand...they are of no help...him or Oliver.
JMO

Yep...Frank can tell the court all the contradictions that he has been saying George told him, and Oliver can tell about his drinking....lol and IMO

 

[AJ Noiter]

Most names were redacted from witness and evidence document obtained by the Orlando Sentinel, but six civilian witnesses were named: Trayvon's parents, Sybrina Fulton and Tracy Martin; his brother, Jahvarius Fulton; and Zimmerman's neighbor, Frank Taaffe, friend Joe Oliver and father, Robert Zimmerman.

If you ask me, someone's trying desperately to get "evidence." What do Mr. Martin's parents have to add to the case? They weren't even in the same city. The brother didn't go outside even after the gunshot so he's not really a witness other to state what we already know, and I doubt anyone would disagree - Mr. Martin went to the store. The friends/family of Mr. Zimmerman are in the same boat. What do they have to add to it? A 2nd hand story? Maybe testifying that Mr. Zimmerman had injuries and went to the hospital but certainly the prosecution wouldn't call them for that... would they?

Maybe I'm missing something here, but after reviewing all of the known witnesses listed in that story I have to say the prosecution is looking pretty desperate to grasp at anything they can. Mr. Owen ... really?

 

[Dr.Fessel]

If you ask me, someone's trying desperately to get "evidence." What do Mr. Martin's parents have to add to the case? They weren't even in the same city. The brother didn't go outside even after the gunshot so he's not really a witness other to state what we already know, and I doubt anyone would disagree - Mr. Martin went to the store. The friends/family of Mr. Zimmerman are in the same boat. What do they have to add to it? A 2nd hand story? Maybe testifying that Mr. Zimmerman had injuries and went to the hospital but certainly the prosecution wouldn't call them for that... would they?

Maybe I'm missing something here, but after reviewing all of the known witnesses listed in that story I have to say the prosecution is looking pretty desperate to grasp at anything they can. Mr. Owen ... really?

All the family of Martins will be needed when the defense starts attacking the victim.

Zimmerman's friends and family are listed and have given statements because they got on tv shows and said George told me this and George did this in the past I believe. imo