What evidence does the prosecution have?

[LC446]

One would think that if one believed everyone was still stuck on March 8, 2012, when all of the above was being touted as gospel by a group of individuals with an agenda.

After 3 media firings for editing GZ's 911 tape to make him seem racist, after a fuzzy video showing no injuries where there were some, after seeing that the victim was not 14 but actually a 6'2" 17 year old young man who was on a 10 day suspension for having a pipe and a pot baggie (3rd), and the perp wasn't white or horrid looking, but actually multi-racial, (did have a 2 misdemeanor records from 7 years prior), after Mary Cutcher sold her story to the National Enquirer and took photos with Crump & Trayvon's family, after looking at all the evidence and witness statements, after being asked to swallow Crump's story about a 3 wk late witness, after seeing the probable cause document that doesn't match the charges, etc., etc. Teenagers younger than TM jack people up all the time in the City where I live, his age, 17, never made him automatically innocent in my eyes.

I'm just as puzzled as you are, but hopefully that will all change soon :fence: ....... document dump lease:
.JMO!

BBM. Unfortunately IMO this about sums up the issues people have with this situation. It's unfortunate that feelings about who brought it to the forefront are being held against an innocent young man, as if the fact that they are bringing it forward should reflect poorly on him. His parents got help where they could. I cannot begrudge them that. I have a 16 year old son, if this happened to him, I would accept any and all help I could get to get justice for my child.

Angela Corey seems to be a hard nosed prosecutor. I don't think she takes this lightly and didn't overcharge. IMO she doesn't seem to me to be the type to bring charges she can't prove.

 

[AJ Noiter]

BBM. Unfortunately IMO this about sums up the issues people's have with this situation. It's unfortunate that feelings about who brought it to the forefront are being held against an innocent young man, as if the fact that they are bringing it forward should reflect poorly on him. His parents got help where they could. I cannot begrudge them that. I have a 16 year old son, if this happened to him, I would accept any and all help I could get to get justice for my child.

Angela Corey seems to be a hard nosed prosecutor. I don't think she takes this lightly and didn't overcharge. IMO she doesn't seem to me to be the type to bring charges she can't prove.

What you're forgetting is that two key players that showed up in that whole thing that happened on March 8th knew Mr. Zimmerman wasn't racist because they helped him with the Sherman Ware case/campaign. "Thrown under the bus" is an understatement here.

 

[AngelWings444]

BBM. Unfortunately IMO this about sums up the issues people's have with this situation. It's unfortunate that feelings about who brought it to the forefront are being held against an innocent young man, as if the fact that they are bringing it forward should reflect poorly on him. His parents got help where they could. I cannot begrudge them that. I have a 16 year old son, if this happened to him, I would accept any and all help I could get to get justice for my child.

Angela Corey seems to be a hard nosed prosecutor. I don't think she takes this lightly and didn't overcharge. IMO she doesn't seem to me to be the type to bring charges she can't prove.

BBM.

Great post, all of it! Thank you.

 

[Just K]

What you're forgetting is that two key players that showed up in that whole thing that happened on March 8th knew Mr. Zimmerman wasn't racist because they helped him with the Sherman Ware case/campaign. "Thrown under the bus" is an understatement here.

We really need a link for this:
Where is there any proof that GZ even handed out the letter, it wasn't a flyer, or that he tried to get folks to come to a special session of the town council? The City Commission checked their agenda and sessions notes. The Ware case was not addressed at either of the two session dates closest to the date on GZ's letter. Was he actually trying to rally people to bring the issue to the commission or council even though it was not on their official agenda? Because if that is the case then once again we see GZ doing what he pleases and playing outside of the rules...or trying to bend the rules for his agenda.

 

[Just K]

AJ, Just as an aside: I still don't know what happened on March 8th. What is all the hoopla about March 8th?

If this has to do with Cable News Coverage and Talking Heads then perhaps people would be better served by not watching such shows. Just listen to the words of GZ on his Non-Emergency call to LE, look at the physical evidence, at GZ's social, emotional, financial and educational history and not listen to the opinions of THs.

 

[LynnM]

What you're forgetting is that two key players that showed up in that whole thing that happened on March 8th knew Mr. Zimmerman wasn't racist because they helped him with the Sherman Ware case/campaign. "Thrown under the bus" is an understatement here.

I would like to know more about this. GZ or his family has him taking a leadership role in bringing about justice in this case and getting an award from the mayor. And he may have written a letter or handed out fliers but I very much doubt that he took any kind of leadership role that would bring him to the attention of those key players and I will be completely and utterly stunned if he got any award from the mayor. I did a lot of googling about the Ware case when the Martin case first came to public attention because I was wondering just what the heck was going on with the Sanford Police (and my goodness there were a lot of problems of all kinds) and I never saw anything about Zimmerman getting an award from the mayor. When politicians give out awards they tend to use that as an opportunity for publicity.

 

[LambChop]

What you're forgetting is that two key players that showed up in that whole thing that happened on March 8th knew Mr. Zimmerman wasn't racist because they helped him with the Sherman Ware case/campaign. "Thrown under the bus" is an understatement here.

Then why would the FBI still be investigating GZ. Gilbreath said himself GZ was profiling. jmo

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

Your welcome. And the fact that the state did not charge GZ with stalking tells me that their evidence may be weaker than some would hope.

I haven't seen the evidence so I can't say whether they do or do not have all of that. Just my thought.

BBM
It is. It should be 1st degree murder.

If you are saying you don't know who violated who's rights why is it a given that GZ is in the right and TM in the wrong?? I would think people would side with the Minor who was unarmed walking home from the store with ice tea and skiddles. Why would anyone side with a bully who is armed patroling for those "***holes who always get away"?

It's likely the jury will not be concerned with what GZ's father and pretend attorney said on CNN or FOX, or any of the others. LE has never released this information, so who knows, maybe after the doc dump it will all become clear!

I was actually asking, based on your calculations, if the time it would take to run 210 ft would be approximately 24 seconds. You can ignore this part PP, but to anyone else interested, it would seem, by PP's calculations, TM could have run home and back approx 3 times between the time GZ lost sight of him, and when they met up again. Just doesn't make sense.

We still don't know what other evidence the SP uncovered..I doubt they would charge if they felt there was reasonable doubt...

To indicate that TM didn't get to his home fast enough that he had plenty of time to make it home, did anyone think, TM didn't want this strange dude to know where he was living? Maybe that's why he was trying to hide hoping this guy would let up from following and he can safely get into his door? :banghead:

I can't see how, where or why what happened to TM was something he made happen...

On that 911 NEN call, you can 'hear' GZ running, huffing and puffing, so I believe he never gave up in his pursuit of this teen he deemed was doing something suspicous..he continued to follow (I believe he hunted TM down) until he finally found him and since TM was trying to outrun him, it angered GZ even more than he was...

One must scrutinize his call into that NEN..it tells it. His mentality is a dead giveaway and no one is 'hearing' it? Which is partly what ACorey had stated during that conference when she informed of the charges they brought forth..the comment on 'these a&&holes always get away"..and also IIRC, they mentioned the huffing and puffing during the bond hearing...

I'd like to know what happened immediately before GZ decided to go out on his alleged milk run...Did he and his wife argue? Was he already in angry mode when his eyes caught sight of TM?

There's something wrong with GZ...something happened from at least 2005 when all his troubles began with the violence, with the failed attempts at employment and opening businesses...and he hasn't been able to recover since then...:maddening:

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

I would like to know more about this. GZ or his family has him taking a leadership role in bringing about justice in this case and getting an award from the mayor. And he may have written a letter or handed out fliers but I very much doubt that he took any kind of leadership role that would bring him to the attention of those key players and I will be completely and utterly stunned if he got any award from the mayor. I did a lot of googling about the Ware case when the Martin case first came to public attention because I was wondering just what the heck was going on with the Sanford Police (and my goodness there were a lot of problems of all kinds) and I never saw anything about Zimmerman getting an award from the mayor. When politicians give out awards they tend to use that as an opportunity for publicity.

I believe GZ's family always makes excuses for his behavior...it's always someone elses fault that GZ gets into these violent confronations..he's always provoked...

I believe his family coddles him for whatever reason..Is GZ the baby of his family? I'd like to know where he's at in relation to his siblings...if he's the baby then I suspect he's one spoiled, entitled son...does anyone know???

 

[gxm]

I believe GZ's family always makes excuses for his behavior...it's always someone elses fault that GZ gets into these violent confronations..he's always provoked...

I believe his family coddles him for whatever reason..Is GZ the baby of his family? I'd like to know where he's at in relation to his siblings...if he's the baby then I suspect he's one spoiled, entitled son...does anyone know???

AFAIK, GZ is the youngest of four children. He has an older brother and two older sisters. (Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.)

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

AFAIK, GZ is the youngest of four children. He has an older brother and two older sisters. (Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.)

Thanks, GXM...so my belief is correct then...He's the baby of the family and probably very spoiled and entitled...I wonder if his family, the parents especially walk on egg shells around him...he appears to be a loose cannon that has already been fired upon..it's out there now...

I can't image his family is proud of their son who has not accomplished anything really worthwhile in his 28 years on this earth...but I also don't believe they tell him that his behavior is off the charts and needs to be reeled in...his propensity for violence is his downfall...and wonder if he bullies them too...

 

[gxm]

We still don't know what other evidence the SP uncovered..I doubt they would charge if they felt there was reasonable doubt...

To indicate that TM didn't get to his home fast enough that he had plenty of time to make it home, did anyone think, TM didn't want this strange dude to know where he was living? Maybe that's why he was trying to hide hoping this guy would let up from following and he can safely get into his door? :banghead:

I can't see how, where or why what happened to TM was something he made happen...

On that 911 NEN call, you can 'hear' GZ running, huffing and puffing, so I believe he never gave up in his pursuit of this teen he deemed was doing something suspicous..he continued to follow (I believe he hunted TM down) until he finally found him and since TM was trying to outrun him, it angered GZ even more than he was...

One must scrutinize his call into that NEN..it tells it. His mentality is a dead giveaway and no one is 'hearing' it? Which is partly what ACorey had stated during that conference when she informed of the charges they brought forth..the comment on 'these a&&holes always get away"..and also IIRC, they mentioned the huffing and puffing during the bond hearing...

I'd like to know what happened immediately before GZ decided to go out on his alleged milk run...Did he and his wife argue? Was he already in angry mode when his eyes caught sight of TM?

There's something wrong with GZ...something happened from at least 2005 when all his troubles began with the violence, with the failed attempts at employment and opening businesses...and he hasn't been able to recover since then...:maddening:

BBM.

I'm not sure about that especially considering the overcharge of 2nd degree. IMO, it may be that they don't have the evidence to fill in the gaps of reasonable doubt and they are hoping to force GZ into a plea deal with the overcharge hanging over his head. I also think there's been considerable pressure for the SA to create a case against GZ. (JMO, of course.)

IMO, if TM had tried to outrun GZ, they would never have crossed paths. IMO, TM did not see GZ as a serious threat because not only did he not run away but, according to the gf's (alleged) story, TM was the first to make (verbal) contact. I don't think TM was afraid of GZ. I think he was annoyed at being scoped out.

JMO, OMO, and :moo:

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

Not sure he's overcharged...his depraved mentality put him in that position and we still don't know what evidence the state has..based that 911 NEN call...his mentality is shown in that call...the running, instead of getting back into his vehicle, the a&&hole comment of always getting away..she's got the goods on GZ...for his state of mind is quite evident to me, so it must be amplified to the state..they are trained to 'hear' things we all don't hear...

ACorey would not bow down to the pressure, if she felt her office didn't have enough evidence to charge GZ, she wouldn't have..she's a no nonsense prosecutor who doesn't need to place a charge she couldn't get a conviction on..

They also have his accounts of events where the prosecutor alleged he changed his story, five times, yet GZ only admits to giving three accounts...

Then there's the recreation GZ took the detectives through...and his story doesn't match the evidence...so, I believe GZ has embellished things, I also believe GZ is not being truthful...he knows he didn't try to make it back to the safety of his vehicle, which is another reason the depraved murder charge is brought against him..the huffing and puffing on that same call, proves he was in hot pursuit of TM and wouldn't back down as told by the dispatcher..

 

[LambChop]

How could we know GZ is overcharged when we have not seen all the evidence? It's the same as saying GZ is 100% guilty. We just do not have much to go on. What little we have does not look good for GZ but not all the evidence is in so it is hard to say for sure anything other than he has been charged for 2nd degree murder. jmo

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

http://www.scribd.com/doc/87840105/Zimmerman-Letter-to-Sanford-Churches

I found a copy of that letter in regards to the Sherman Ware assault...link above..I find it so ironic that the same is what's happening with GZ, from February 26, 2012...Karma's a biatch...



Article
http://news.yahoo.com/zimmerman-dem...-race-related-beating-officers-051804872.html

at the end of the article the adminstrative outcome is also noted...see link above

 

[sleonardelli]

http://www.scribd.com/doc/87840105/Zimmerman-Letter-to-Sanford-Churches

I found a copy of that letter in regards to the Sherman Ware assault...link above..I find it so ironic that the same is what's happening with GZ, from February 26, 2012...Karma's a biatch...



Article
http://news.yahoo.com/zimmerman-dem...-race-related-beating-officers-051804872.html

at the end of the article the adminstrative outcome is also noted...see link above

The Daily Caller only reported on the "alleged" flyer (w/letter) according to the anonymous Zimmerman family member; I'm still holding out for an actual MSM report about the award his mother indicated (during the bond hearing) he received. An award would merit a small note in a local paper.

 

[gxm]

How could we know GZ is overcharged when we have not seen all the evidence? It's the same as saying GZ is 100% guilty. We just do not have much to go on. What little we have does not look good for GZ but not all the evidence is in so it is hard to say for sure anything other than he has been charged for 2nd degree murder. jmo

I'm basing my opinion on the evidence available now. If the SA has an ace up her sleeve, that's a different story. IMO, every time some hot new "evidence" pops up, it fizzles out. So far, there is no publicly known evidence that provides a slam dunk.

JMO, OMO, and :moo:

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

The Daily Caller only reported on the "alleged" flyer (w/letter) according to the anonymous Zimmerman family member; I'm still holding out for an actual MSM report about the award his mother indicated (during the bond hearing) he received. An award would merit a small note in a local paper.

I believe, like the Anthony family, they are all not truthful..

I have searched and searched and find nothing that remotely resembles GZ getting an award or a commendation of any sort..So, I take what his family states with a box of salt..I heard them misrepresent during the bond hearing..especially it's always someone elses fault GZ gets into violent altercations...

Future behavior depends on past behaviors..unless someone truely tries to change..I don't see GZ has since 2005...

 

[AJ Noiter]

How could we know GZ is overcharged when we have not seen all the evidence? It's the same as saying GZ is 100% guilty. We just do not have much to go on. What little we have does not look good for GZ but not all the evidence is in so it is hard to say for sure anything other than he has been charged for 2nd degree murder. jmo

The affidavit for probable cause should support the charge, and as we know, at least two very well known lawyers have stated the charges aren't supported by the document. One of them worked as the Chief of Staff for Ronald Regan's AG, the other is a professor of law, and not just some hum-dum school, Harvard. Then there's some lesser, but still well known, lawyers who have stated the same. Such as Andrew McCarthy. Are we really going to say that those who know the legal ins and outs have no clue what they're talking about? That's my first clue that the State overcharged.

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

The affidavit for probable cause should support the charge, and as we know, at least two very well known lawyers have stated the charges aren't supported by the document. One of them worked as the Chief of Staff for Ronald Regan's AG, the other is a professor of law, and not just some hum-dum school, Harvard. Then there's some lesser, but still well known, lawyers who have stated the same. Such as Andrew McCarthy. Are we really going to say that those who know the legal ins and outs have no clue what they're talking about? That's my first clue that the State overcharged.

BBM

YES....they were not part of the investigation, therefore they don't know what the SP uncovered...so, yes...they don't know what they are talking about at this moment in time...