What is considered CONTROLLING?

[Anderson]

After hearing what I heard in court I wonder just how much NC friends knew about her financial situation. Her family did, but were her friends only aware of him giving her an allowance, cutting her off and not how much her parents gave or everything was financed to the max? IDK

Something struck me odd to hear NC went on vacation with $700 and spent it the 1st weekend only enough to put gas in the rest of the week. KL testified to this. I have to admit 1 full day in court does give you a different perspective on it.

Thanks again for your insights from attending the court proceedings, in addition to other things that you have shared on the board.

 

[cygnusx1]

What evidence is this excellent observation based on? Just curious.

Why is KL supporting $36/gal paint (the realtor apparently recommended it) for a re-sale when $11/gal would work just fine. Would she have recommended that if she knew their budgetary constraints? IDK. But if she didn't understand the budgetary constraints, she wouldn't have suggested otherwise.

KL puts the blame for the horrible b-day event on BC. He tried. Things don't always go as planned. We call that a "Fun" Family Outing (FFO) in my house. The plan is expected to be fun but something happens to ruin it (rain, kids don't like it, somebody gets sick, etc). EVERYBODY gets in a foul mood. It happens. We try to make up for it later.

Fran says:

Wasn't this the same party that he only wanted to pay for his child's pony ride and not the other children's rides. You know, the other kids they invited to the party?

From what I've found on the net the horse farms in the area seem to charge a flat rate for a birthday party including a horse or two. Don't know what that was all about.

 

[cygnusx1]

Something struck me odd to hear NC went on vacation with $700 and spent it the 1st weekend only enough to put gas in the rest of the week. KL testified to this. I have to admit 1 full day in court does give you a different perspective on it.

WOW! That is roughly our spending money for a week at the beach, including meals, for a family of 4; and we have no debt.

 

[ncsu95]

There are always a way to curve the budget for birthdays. I have found when the kids are younger they are more interested in the cake, balloons and the presents their friends brought.

There is absolutely no reason when on a budget to not go to the Dollar Tree, get the plain plates, napkins, balloons, goodie bags to stuff and gift bags. Match them to the character cake the child wants and 1 special balloon to mix with the plain jane ones. How many young kids say...hey look at the plates? It is the cake they always peer at. What are the pictures of most of the time? The cake.

The Dollar Tree is less than 2 miles from BJ's and could have saved $$ with the birthday items.
IMO they could both have curved the spending on this one particular event, which they both appeared not to do.
Wouldn't she have blown his mind if she pulled up to the Dollar Tree door?

I am not too proud to say I go for cards, gift bags, garbage bags & name brand dog treats. I refuse to pay high dollar when these are $1 ea. Can I afford to pay premium price for these items? Yes, but I refuse to when I know how close I can get them for 75% off.

Exactly...that's what we do too (Dollar Tree). And we are debt free other than our mortgage. We have broke "friends" (literally broke) who held their daughters birthday party at Pinky Toes and hired Cinderalla to come as well. Easily spent $400 on just the party. I was floored by it. Kids parties can easily get out of control

 

[ncsu95]

You're absolutely correct about the spending issue and both having the problem. I was just pointing out how simple for 1 occasion to save some $.
If they would have stopped for a moment as adults and looked at what was occuring and what the long term outcome was going to be. Financial drain. It was going to be less $ for both of them in the long run when ever the seperation occured.

It appears they were in a power struggle and money was one way to control the other.

They needed Dave Ramsey in the worst way.

 

[ncsu95]

I am by far not taking sides on their spending issues. His way of handling it in certain matters was a bit odd I must admit. They both had a hand in this spending. After hearing what I heard in court I wonder just how much NC friends knew about her financial situation. Her family did, but were her friends only aware of him giving her an allowance, cutting her off and not how much her parents gave or everything was financed to the max? IDK

Something struck me odd to hear NC went on vacation with $700 and spent it the 1st weekend only enough to put gas in the rest of the week. KL testified to this. I have to admit 1 full day in court does give you a different perspective on it.

Still, $300 was the agreement...give it to her and don't follow her around to see how she spends it.

I hadn't heard that. That's crazy, especially since she probably didn't have to pay for housing. We just went for a week to the beach and spent less than that the entire week, and had a great time.

 

[ncsu95]

Hi you out on the west coast:genie:
Yes, you are correct about that. Isn't it a shame he hadn't been to enough parties to know you pay for all the kids who had been invited? I know I am assuming, but reading all the affidavits it appears he hadn't attended any others.

Or, maybe he shouldn't have done pony rides at all, and done that with Bella and Katie once the kids were gone. I think the new term should be "keeping up with the Coopers" instead of the Jones. They were out of control

(And yes, I know she was murdered and isn't here. I'm not being disrespectful...just pointing out issues with how they chose to live).

 

[ncsu95]

Fran is not off about the 4:20 trip to HT...eventually when BC goes to criminal court it will be shown he was there.

What did he purchase at 4:20 am?

 

[momto3kids]

Exactly...that's what we do too (Dollar Tree). And we are debt free other than our mortgage. We have broke "friends" (literally broke) who held their daughters birthday party at Pinky Toes and hired Cinderalla to come as well. Easily spent $400 on just the party. I was floored by it. Kids parties can easily get out of control

I am guilty of spending that on birthday's. My oldest gets Rascal Flatts tickets since they come on her birthday every year, and I won't disclose what my youngest got. You'd call me crazy But on the other hand it is something they wanted to do and something they would remember. So I guess making her tickets her birthday instead of when it isn't it her birthday I get out of paying for 2 expenses

 

[water_dancing]

As far as escape goes a person desperate to escape would not care if their bags were packed or not, they would just leave and maybe NC had indicated to BC that she would do just that and with KL there what a perfect time, the children would not have needed passports to get into Canada, the fact they were born here does not make them automatic US citizens, at the age of consent they will have to make a declaration of citizenship.

Actually since they were born in the US, they are US citizens. It is a Constitutional guarantee. They have US passports and you can't get those unless you are a citizen.

WD

 

[justthinking2008]

Actually since they were born in the US, they are US citizens. It is a Constitutional guarantee. They have US passports and you can't get those unless you are a citizen.

WD

WD, that is correct, I am basing my info on a friend of mine who was a British subject in the US at the time she gave birth to her two children. Once the children reached 18 they were required to declare citizenship, even though mom had become a US citizen by that time. It is an option for the children to decide to become US citizens.

Which enters another question in my mind, if BC did commit this murder being that he is currently a Canadian it would have made sense for him to flee to Canada. The reason for this is Canada does not have the death penalty and will not extradite someone to the US who is charged with a capital crime.:waitasec:

 

[momto3kids]

WD, that is correct, I am basing my info on a friend of mine who was a British subject in the US at the time she gave birth to her two children. Once the children reached 18 they were required to declare citizenship, even though mom had become a US citizen by that time. It is an option for the children to decide to become US citizens.

Which enters another question in my mind, if BC did commit this murder being that he is currently a Canadian it would have made sense for him to flee to Canada. The reason for this is Canada does not have the death penalty and will not extradite someone to the US who is charged with a capital crime.:waitasec:

An older post from RKAB where the subject of BC going to Canada came up...

it's possible that he is working on getting his US citzenship. When you apply and go through the motions of getting citzenship, there is a period of time during the process(can be up to a year) that you can not return to Canada.

 

[water_dancing]

The taking of passports - if this was in reaction to a threat to take the children to Canada - is this not something that any of us would do? (Now, we can argue WHY he took them - to control her, or to keep access to the children because he loved them, but since he's not talking, we can only point to the action)

BC taking the passports alone would not have prevented NC from taking the kids to Canada. If driving, she could have crossed the border with their birth certificates as easily as she would have their passports. Children under 18 can travel to Canada with any WHTI document by car/sea. The documents state that in May, she was planning on driving anyway. They would not have been able to fly into Canada without the passports.

I have a hard time believing that someone as desperate to leave as she said she was would not have research the heck out of this trying to find a loophole. It is seriously a 30 second Google search to find this information. She had internet access with her blackberry.

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cbpmc/cbpmc_2223.html
http://cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/publications/pub/rc4161-eng.html#P004

WD

 

[Jess]

And if Nancy had taken off to the border with the children, do you not think that Brad would have phoned LE to stop her at the border ??? Her name, the children's name, the license plates etc would all have been entered into the computers used at the border crossings. The only way it would have worked was if Brad had been away for enough days for them to travel to the border.

Not as easy as one thinks.

When my daughter went cross border shopping with her mil and friend, she had a notarized letter signed by her husband so she could cross the border with her son.

 

[justthinking2008]

NC was not stupid, if she was as desperate as some claim she was, she would have found a way to go to Canada. She could have made up a story about going away for the weekend with friends or family, which she obviously did, she could have had money wired from parents to western union and been across the border before he knew she was out of the state. As I stated earlier, the lack of children's passports would not have kept her out of Canada there are other ways. Also she could have filed for a new passport for children, claiming the other had been lost.

 

[justthinking2008]

Lastly, if she did not want to use home computers or her blackberry for internet access for fear he could see her activity, she could have used friends computers. I am sure all of her friends had computers with internet conectivity and they would have gladly let her use them.

 

[SleuthyGal]

If I had a spouse who supervised the buying of paper goods to the level of deciding what I could and could not purchase (within a given budget) I doubt I'd stay married for long. If a significant other pulled that crap it would happen exactly one time and that would be the last time they would ever pull that with me.

 

[justthinking2008]

If I had a spouse who supervised the buying of paper goods to the level of deciding what I could and could not purchase (within a given budget) I doubt I'd stay married for long. If a significant other pulled that crap it would happen exactly one time and that would be the last time they would ever pull that with me.

SG,

I totally agree with your statement, but NC knew why he was there and did not want KL to know.

 

[SleuthyGal]

SG,

I totally agree with your statement, but NC knew why he was there and did not want KL to know.

How do you know NC did 'not want KL to know?'

 

[justthinking2008]

How do you know NC did 'not want KL to know?'

I think KL would have testified to such. I cannot say what KL would do, but if I saw my sister in that situation, I would have filled up the tank, and bought the $3 ballon. I would have also offered to help pay for the paper goods if I felt as strongly about this as KL seems to feel. I would have questioned my sister as to why any of this was occurring if I had not seen it before, but maybe my sister and I have a different relationship than NC and KL I do not know.