Agreed!!
What One Thing?!?!
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Agreed!!
Sunnie ... I agree. Plus, we are supposed to accept that she planned and carried out a complicated and bizarre suicide after receiving a voicemail (one we obviously will never hear). Too many problems here with just that (let alone everything else).
- she didn't bother to even call Jonah back?
- she figured out where everything was and the weird knots after she listened to the voicemail and before 3 am?
- too crazy, it looks staged
naked, outside, hands and feet both bound with some nautical knots, bleeding/possibly menstruating, complicated method of binding hands in front then taking one hand out and putting back in after putting hands behind back (COME ON! NOPE, NO WAY), tshirt in her mouth and/ around her neck (PULEEZE< AT LEAST THE SCARF MADE MORE SENSE) ... and whatever... this is just not a suicide
Excellent post and point. And, she was in initial rigor mortis so doing CPR seems odd to me anyway.
sorrell skye
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So here's my list. It's not necessarily an exhaustive list of the reasons (although it may be exhausting reading it :crazy: ) why I doubt the official suicide finding, but it includes the reasons I've currently compiled.
1. This is my #1 reason: the impossible geometry of the fall, based on Valhalls' excellent mathematical analysis.
http://www.thehinkymeter.com/2011/09/14/rebecca-zahau-case-the-geometry-in-rebeccas-fall/
2. The 4 subgaleal hemorrhages (especially the one on the right superior parietal scalp - the top of her head), indicative of blunt force trauma.
3. The lack of significant facial & torso injuries, based on Cynic's brilliant computer animation.
[ame="http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7115100&postcount=1"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - The case for murder[/ame]
4. Again, the lack of significant injuries to RZ's torso, since it's been assumed that she leaned over the railing & pushed off from her toes (all while defying the impossible geometry, no less). The AR (page 13) notes 3 small, superficial abrasions to the lower abdomen.
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&...TItOWM1Mi00NGE4LWEyZDgtMjc3OWUxZTYzYmY5&hl=en
Based on a close-up photo of the balcony railing, even if RZ had been able to defy the impossible geometry of the fall (which I seriously doubt) she should have sustained numerous, deep lacerations to her torso as she slid over the rough, jagged areas of the railing.
http://www.sdsheriff.net/coronado/images/rz8699.jpg
5. The lack of livor mortis in the extremities after hanging for ~ 4 hours.
6. The fixed posterior livor mortis, after lying semi-supine tilted to the left side for 12+ hours. The lack of fixed livor mortis to the left side, also after lying tilted to that side for 12+ hours.
7. The 2 hour time frame (after having allegedly listened to a vm message @ ~ 12:50; not to mention phone records show no evidence of an incoming call @ ~ 12:30 that resulted in the vm message that was allegedly listened to @ ~ 12:50) to make the ultimate decision to commit suicide (absent any previous mental health history or known suicidal ideation), to devise a workable suicide plan, and to assemble the instruments associated with a workable suicide plan (rope, kitchen knives, paint supplies), and to carry out that plan, including figuring out how to successfully tie the bindings to ankles, wrists, bedframe, and to fashion an effective noose.
8. The exact length of the noose rope: without apparent measuring (as is evident in the dearth of footprints on the balcony tiles) to ensure it would not be too long or too short from where it was tied off to the bedframe & coursed all the way across the room, across the balcony floor, & over the railing - how did she know the noose rope would not be too long or too short?
9. The obvious contamination of the crime scene: Exhibit A) the boot print on the balcony tiles. IMO, if the balcony tiles were tromped upon, it's possible that the rest of the primary crime scene (if not also the secondary crime scene i.e. the rest of the mansion, the garage, etc.) may have also been compromised, with the possibility that potential evidence may have been lost.
10. No fingernail scrapings, or clipped & preserved fingernails were noted in the AR. Without collection of these items, and without testing for possible foreign DNA, there is no way to conclusively determine that RZ had not fought against an attacker.
11. The blue tee shirt wrapped around the victim's neck - on the outside of the rope - and stuffed into her mouth.
12. The music that was reported to have been heard by neighbors @ ~ 1:00 - 1:30 a.m. on the night of her demise.
13. The telephone conversations with the decedent's sister (during which the decedent was reported to have not seemed despondent or suicidal) on the night of her demise.
14. The decision by SDCSD to not attempt to create a re-enactment of the hanging.
15. The sticky tape residue on RZ's shins: if it was athletic tape - where is the rest of the roll? If it was duct tape - where is the rest of the roll? Did she put the tape on her legs, or did someone else?
16. The noose was wrapped over her hair. As someone who has had long hair my entire life, I know from experience that a woman with long hair will automatically (without thinking about it) pull her hair out from under anything restrictive (purse strap, backpack strap, collar, scarf, necklace, etc.). IMO, if someone else had wrapped the noose around RZ's neck, that person would not have removed her long hair from beneath the rope.
16. The curious lack of anyone else's DNA or fingerprints anywhere in the immediate crime scene (including the lack of anyone else's fingerprints or DNA besides RZ's on the kitchen knives, which are typically tools that are handled by all the adults in a household).
17. Lack of official information regarding other rooms or surfaces in the mansion (including the garage) or adjoining guesthouses that were processed for possible evidence.
18. The message on the door: RZ has been described as someone who cared about others; someone who was always there for her family & friends. Psychologically speaking, it's my opinion that a person who is sensitive to the feelings & needs of others (as she was said to have been) would have more than likely written a detailed suicide letter so that her loved ones could have understood the reason for suicide & to hopefully provide them with a sense of closure. The message on the door did not accomplish that, IMO, but only created more questions, more doubt, and certainly did not provide closure. IMO, the message on the door seems to have been written by a third party who was attempting to taunt JS.
19. The blood on RZ's fingers (page 10, AR): unless the blood was collected & tested, there is no way to determine if it was her own blood, or someone else's.
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&...TItOWM1Mi00NGE4LWEyZDgtMjc3OWUxZTYzYmY5&hl=en
20. The victim was found nude. Yet, she had not removed a black "Bionic Band" and a yellow "Livestrong" band from her left wrist, nor did she remove a "Power Balance" band from her right wrist (page 8, AR).
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&...TItOWM1Mi00NGE4LWEyZDgtMjc3OWUxZTYzYmY5&hl=en
Her ears were pierced, but she wasn't wearing earrings @ the time of her death. Nor was she wearing any other jewelry. If she planned to kill herself, and had removed all other clothing & jewelry, why did she not remove the "Bionic Band", the "Livestrong" band, and the "Power Balance" band?
1. This is my #1 reason: the impossible geometry of the fall, based on Valhalls' excellent mathematical analysis.
http://www.thehinkymeter.com/2011/09/14/rebecca-zahau-case-the-geometry-in-rebeccas-fall/
2. The 4 subgaleal hemorrhages (especially the one on the right superior parietal scalp - the top of her head), indicative of blunt force trauma.
3. The lack of significant facial & torso injuries, based on Cynic's brilliant computer animation.
[ame="http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7115100&postcount=1"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - The case for murder[/ame]
4. Again, the lack of significant injuries to RZ's torso, since it's been assumed that she leaned over the railing & pushed off from her toes (all while defying the impossible geometry, no less). The AR (page 13) notes 3 small, superficial abrasions to the lower abdomen.
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&...TItOWM1Mi00NGE4LWEyZDgtMjc3OWUxZTYzYmY5&hl=en
Based on a close-up photo of the balcony railing, even if RZ had been able to defy the impossible geometry of the fall (which I seriously doubt) she should have sustained numerous, deep lacerations to her torso as she slid over the rough, jagged areas of the railing.
http://www.sdsheriff.net/coronado/images/rz8699.jpg
5. The lack of livor mortis in the extremities after hanging for ~ 4 hours.
6. The fixed posterior livor mortis, after lying semi-supine tilted to the left side for 12+ hours. The lack of fixed livor mortis to the left side, also after lying tilted to that side for 12+ hours.
7. The 2 hour time frame (after having allegedly listened to a vm message @ ~ 12:50; not to mention phone records show no evidence of an incoming call @ ~ 12:30 that resulted in the vm message that was allegedly listened to @ ~ 12:50) to make the ultimate decision to commit suicide (absent any previous mental health history or known suicidal ideation), to devise a workable suicide plan, and to assemble the instruments associated with a workable suicide plan (rope, kitchen knives, paint supplies), and to carry out that plan, including figuring out how to successfully tie the bindings to ankles, wrists, bedframe, and to fashion an effective noose.
8. The exact length of the noose rope: without apparent measuring (as is evident in the dearth of footprints on the balcony tiles) to ensure it would not be too long or too short from where it was tied off to the bedframe & coursed all the way across the room, across the balcony floor, & over the railing - how did she know the noose rope would not be too long or too short?
9. The obvious contamination of the crime scene: Exhibit A) the boot print on the balcony tiles. IMO, if the balcony tiles were tromped upon, it's possible that the rest of the primary crime scene (if not also the secondary crime scene i.e. the rest of the mansion, the garage, etc.) may have also been compromised, with the possibility that potential evidence may have been lost.
10. No fingernail scrapings, or clipped & preserved fingernails were noted in the AR. Without collection of these items, and without testing for possible foreign DNA, there is no way to conclusively determine that RZ had not fought against an attacker.
11. The blue tee shirt wrapped around the victim's neck - on the outside of the rope - and stuffed into her mouth.
12. The music that was reported to have been heard by neighbors @ ~ 1:00 - 1:30 a.m. on the night of her demise.
13. The telephone conversations with the decedent's sister (during which the decedent was reported to have not seemed despondent or suicidal) on the night of her demise.
14. The decision by SDCSD to not attempt to create a re-enactment of the hanging.
15. The sticky tape residue on RZ's shins: if it was athletic tape - where is the rest of the roll? If it was duct tape - where is the rest of the roll? Did she put the tape on her legs, or did someone else?
16. The noose was wrapped over her hair. As someone who has had long hair my entire life, I know from experience that a woman with long hair will automatically (without thinking about it) pull her hair out from under anything restrictive (purse strap, backpack strap, collar, scarf, necklace, etc.). IMO, if someone else had wrapped the noose around RZ's neck, that person would not have removed her long hair from beneath the rope.
16. The curious lack of anyone else's DNA or fingerprints anywhere in the immediate crime scene (including the lack of anyone else's fingerprints or DNA besides RZ's on the kitchen knives, which are typically tools that are handled by all the adults in a household).
17. Lack of official information regarding other rooms or surfaces in the mansion (including the garage) or adjoining guesthouses that were processed for possible evidence.
18. The message on the door: RZ has been described as someone who cared about others; someone who was always there for her family & friends. Psychologically speaking, it's my opinion that a person who is sensitive to the feelings & needs of others (as she was said to have been) would have more than likely written a detailed suicide letter so that her loved ones could have understood the reason for suicide & to hopefully provide them with a sense of closure. The message on the door did not accomplish that, IMO, but only created more questions, more doubt, and certainly did not provide closure. IMO, the message on the door seems to have been written by a third party who was attempting to taunt JS.
19. The blood on RZ's fingers (page 10, AR): unless the blood was collected & tested, there is no way to determine if it was her own blood, or someone else's.
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&...TItOWM1Mi00NGE4LWEyZDgtMjc3OWUxZTYzYmY5&hl=en
20. The victim was found nude. Yet, she had not removed a black "Bionic Band" and a yellow "Livestrong" band from her left wrist, nor did she remove a "Power Balance" band from her right wrist (page 8, AR).
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&...TItOWM1Mi00NGE4LWEyZDgtMjc3OWUxZTYzYmY5&hl=en
Her ears were pierced, but she wasn't wearing earrings @ the time of her death. Nor was she wearing any other jewelry. If she planned to kill herself, and had removed all other clothing & jewelry, why did she not remove the "Bionic Band", the "Livestrong" band, and the "Power Balance" band?
justice be served
The Angry Norwegian
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Very, very impressive. Thank you as you've really done the 'heavy lifting' here! That was a lot of work and it is appreciated.
Time you knocked it out of the park. NO WAY!!! Thank you for posting!!:great:
My friend, you are truly amazing!!!!:great: As I started reading this, my first response was :floorlaugh:, because of this line 'although it may be exhausting reading it', but I know for a fact, that your wonderful :websleuther: skills would make this a wonderful post!!
We have discussed these points so many a time, but unfortunately I was not as organized as you, and did not keep good track of notes.:banghead:
You outdid yourself my friend and I see eye to eye with everything you posted!!:yourock: And you have kept me from
ullhair:, or just about losing it, many a time, :anguish:. So, thank you for this and here is your gold crown!!:Crown:
arielilane
Justice for Liz Barraza
Great thread, Sunnie!
Sorrell skye, you proved the skye's the limit. : ) Thank you for an excellent well thought out post. Numbers 16 (hair) and 20 focused on details that are powerful. I agree. But, then I agreed with anything you wrote. Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts.
Sorrell skye, you proved the skye's the limit. : ) Thank you for an excellent well thought out post. Numbers 16 (hair) and 20 focused on details that are powerful. I agree. But, then I agreed with anything you wrote. Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts.
:floorlaugh: Hello Cynic and thank you for the powerful work you did on the radio show last night!!! I think you taught Dr. Wecht more than a thing ot two about the case!!!!
Thank you, Sunnie.
It did seem as if he had not considered the absence of injuries to the torso and face.
But, hey, as long as it all works together to get this case properly investigated that would be awesome.
arielilane
Justice for Liz Barraza
Lol, cynic has a great voice for radio, too. It was an all-star cast last night.
steff13
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I just started reading about this case today. I started with Rebecca's autopsy.
The very first thing that struck me was that the rope was around her hair. As a long-haired girl, the first thing I do when I put on a shirt or necklace or whatever, is to pull out my hair. It's just instinctive. I thought that was so odd, and could be an indication that she didn't put the rope around her own neck. Sorry if that's stupid, that just really stood out to me.
The very first thing that struck me was that the rope was around her hair. As a long-haired girl, the first thing I do when I put on a shirt or necklace or whatever, is to pull out my hair. It's just instinctive. I thought that was so odd, and could be an indication that she didn't put the rope around her own neck. Sorry if that's stupid, that just really stood out to me.
arielilane
Justice for Liz Barraza
I think the one piece of evidence that causes me to believe that Rebecca Z was murdered would have to be the four subgaleal hemorrhages. The way the good doctor talked about the hemorrhages and also how it was mentioned in the autopsy report.
Hi Steff, it's nice to 'meet you'. That is not at all stupid and we have spent time talking about it, as many of us have, or have had long hair and agree that it is an automatic response to move your hair out from something, to prevent it from being pulled!!! Thank you for posting!! Stick aroind and help us out!! Sorrell has a group of wonderful links on her post, they can help you get up to speed!!
arielilane
Justice for Liz Barraza
Welcome to WS, steff! Not stupid at all. As another poster mentioned it and I too have long hair and pull my hair out of things, as well. Logical...
Arielilane, fantastic point!! I really feel for Rebecca, as I think that this must have been terrifying for her. I have no idea how this happened, or if it was meant for her to be killed. But I can only imagine how frightened she must have been. If this was someone she knew, add betrayal to that mix.
Thank you my dear for posting!!!
sorrell skye
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Welcome to the forum, Steff!
As a long-haired gal myself, I totally agree with your post!
I look forward to reading any other insights you might offer.
sorrell skye
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I want to say that my list of "Twenty Reasons" is not something that I can take credit for. If it wasn't for the wonderful contributions & dedication of everyone here, that list would not exist. In addition, if not for the dedicated media reporters who have continued to follow this case and who have given us much-needed information (especially News 8), that list would not exist.
Thank You to everyone for your contributions and for your dedication.
Big Hugs to Everyone!
May the Truth prevail.
Thank You to everyone for your contributions and for your dedication.
Big Hugs to Everyone!
May the Truth prevail.
Sorrell, you are too modest. Compilation of the list is what makes it a useful tool!! Many thanks to you!!!
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