What we know about Ransom Note

[Tobiano8th]

i would also add the R's lawyered up right away..... while in a criminal court, that has no value/meaning, i'm pretty sure most of us are in agreement that it means something and it's not good.

innocent people would be shellshocked and then they'd want to help the police as much as humanly possible...... note: i haven't lived through such a situation so can easily be wrong. but neither have 99.999% of people here.

 

[Lt.Lewis-Rowe]

as i said, RDI and IDI are both incredible and require pretty big leaps of faith.... it is very easy to pick holes in either theory........

Sorry, I'm new here.. please could you explain what RDI and IDI mean? I'm guessing intruder something?
Thanks

 

[Tobiano8th]

no problem, i too often don't know what abbrev's mean..

Intruder or Ramsey "Did It" = IDI and RDI

i don't disagree by the way that it's bizarre to think PR wrote a giant, rambling ransom letter on her own note pad with her own pen........ but it's bizarre to think an intruder did it either.

maybe they took the pad away, wrote the note and then brought it back. and put the pad/pen back and put practice version in the trash ....... seems really unlikely, but who knows?

 

[fr brown]

thanks for all the feedback... i appreciate it.

as per some comments,

i don't know all the movie quotes. i think someone said "well, you knew all the quotes".... i've just read there were a bunch. i know DH quotes but not the other 3-4 movies.

the movies were either very contemporary or DH ones from 20 years earlier. the DH quotes are known to most men of a certain age, but most women??... people rented alot of movies back then so very plausible PR knows all those quotes or JR/PR know them all......... if she isn't movie buff, well then she didn't write note or JR dictated......

as per "why would the R's put $118 bonus figure in the ransom letter?"... well "why would someone who broke in put that in a ransom note?". and lots of IDI is sex offender. they wouldn't know the figure............ there are so many "this is hard to explain...... " elements of this case that it'll drive you nuts...... RDI and IDI are both pretty incredible IMO........... was going to write something else but lost my train of thought. that RN basically is extraordinary

what evidence is there that JR slept through the night and only got involved with PR's "discovery - real or not - of the note"?... i know that many BPD detectives, who are no friends of JR, do think this. so my guess is it's true.

as per "why this?", "why that?", it seems like we wouldn't be talking about this case today without the RN........ do people think the RN saved the R's? or implicated them?.. what would have happened if JBR was just found in basement with no explanation at all?. does anyone know?

All the movie quotes? There are a few lines that closely follow the ransom note in Ruthless People, a paraphrase of "a pekingese pissing on a lamp post," and a line from Speed.

 

[Venom]

I don't believe the 'cover-up' theory... or that Patsy wrote the note.... if your daughter had just been killed... by accident or whatever, even if you were not the most maternal person in the world, you're not going to be in a state to write such a long, detailed ransom letter... leaving your handwriting open to professional analysis, when "WE HAVE YOUR DAUGHTER" would have done the same job. The less writing, the less to question...
Thoughts?

Somewhat agree. That makes sense. But I think of chaos in the house that night and it kept growing. I guess simply- I think it wasn't intended to happen, then "oh no, what do we do?!?" and we get to the cover up/staging and here we are trying to make sense and find out what happened that night.

 

[fr brown]

All the movie quotes? There are a few lines that closely follow the ransom note in Ruthless People, a paraphrase of "a pekingese pissing on a lamp post," and a line from Speed.

Actually the ransom demand in Ruthless People was over the telephone. My bad.

 

[Tobiano8th]

wasn't able to quote the person saying not much movie quotation..... he/she didn't mention the DH quotes.

i am trying to get to the bottom of whether it's direct quotes, paraphrased quotes, popularized speech based on those movie quotes or styles of speaking.

i see a blog making a big deal of "she dies" vs. "she will die"...... "she dies" is from DH but how unique is that? it's just another way of saying "she will die".... i can imagine someone talking that way even if they've never seen DH nor been exposed to people who cite it..... i'd have to check "if you talk to a dog (?), she dies" or whatever the DH and RN quotes.

to have comments that people can link to 5 or more movies is a pretty big deal...... my guess is if i wrote the note, it would be zero movie quotes or similar. but i might be wrong

 

[Tobiano8th]

of course, a prosecutor would say *advertiser censored* person (PR?) wrote a ransom note and it sounds vaguely like alot of ransom notes/instructions from the movies... basically, ransom note that sounds like a ransom note. what's so unique about that?

 

[Tobiano8th]

Ms. Lewis/Roe (this sounds snarkey... it isn't. it's just to show whose general comments/questions i'm addressing)

i would also add on theories that there are two types of IDI theories. maybe more.. 1) pedophile, 2) some sort of revenge on JR (PR?)...........

it just seems like whichever IDI you lean to, there are gaping holes in the theory.......pedophile won't know $118k. and i'd say can't/won't write that note.... revenge person is not going to ritualistically kill his daughter or kill his daughter "twice".

unfortunately, on the RN you get to the point of if IDI is wrong, then RDI is correct and ergo, JR or PR wrote the RN.. is that holmes or periot? prove everything else wrong..... there is probably "3rd party did it" but i think that it fits into IDI or RDI. with or without their knowledge.

 

[Tobiano8th]

wow... i don't believe this..... although many experts think JR had no hand in RN.. probably just wants to keep police investigation away from others............... when people watched traditional TV stations back in the day, DH was always on and one of the easiest movies to watch but not pay attention closely.......... NOTE: my source is 2nd hand. but i see this exchange all over the internet

MIKE KANE: Have you ever seen "Dirty Harry?"

JOHN RAMSEY: Seems like I have. That's an old movie, right?

MIKE KANE: Um hmm.

JOHN RAMSEY: (INAUDIBLE) that it's Clint Eastwood, but I don't remember what it's about or (INAUDIBLE).

 

[icedtea4me]

I don't believe the 'cover-up' theory... or that Patsy wrote the note.... if your daughter had just been killed... by accident or whatever, even if you were not the most maternal person in the world, you're not going to be in a state to write such a long, detailed ransom letter... leaving your handwriting open to professional analysis, when "WE HAVE YOUR DAUGHTER" would have done the same job. The less writing, the less to question...
Thoughts?

No, you wouldn't, but would you write a confession?

 

[proust20]

There is an important difference between "she will die" and "she dies". The first of these is, of course, in the future. Something that may occur. The latter is present tense, which becomes clear, when the prior conditions laid down in the RN are eliminated. This indicates that the author of the RN knew that JB was dead.
On a pedantic note, "she will die" and "she dies" are both grammatically incorrect, as the statements are conditional; and so, they require the subjunctive. It ought to be "she shall die". Journalism major PR most likely would have been aware of this use of tenses, which is another attempt at her disguise.

 

[Tobiano8th]

i don't see how "she dies" doesn't suggest that she is alive and "her dying" is possible in the future... obviously, the whole RN was probably fiction anyway... i don't follow the logic of "she dies"........

i can't remember if Scorpio DH "she dies" was from the movie DH near the start or towards the end. was the girl they found buried alive the same crime as DH having to run all over SF with the attache case?........... or am i confusing it with The Enforcer? (awesome but lesser known DH movie. Tyne Daly)

i think it's poor grammar

i'm a PR RN person, but another explanation for "will die" vs. "shall die" is that it wasn't written by journalism major........... here i'm just devil's advocate. that note screams journalism major to me.

 

[David Rogers]

I don't believe the 'cover-up' theory... or that Patsy wrote the note.... if your daughter had just been killed... by accident or whatever, even if you were not the most maternal person in the world, you're not going to be in a state to write such a long, detailed ransom letter... leaving your handwriting open to professional analysis, when "WE HAVE YOUR DAUGHTER" would have done the same job. The less writing, the less to question...
Thoughts?

I don’t think anyone can put themselves into a dramatic situation after the fact. It is amazing what people can do in a traumatic situation. People lift up cars, soldiers sacrifice their lives. People can and will do anything in a traumatic situation.

 

[fr brown]

wasn't able to quote the person saying not much movie quotation..... he/she didn't mention the DH quotes....

But I did. From Scorpio to Harry in Dirty Harry (according to wikiquote): "If you talk to anyone, I don't care if it's a Pekinese pissing against a lamppost, the girl dies"

What are all the other Dirty Harry quotes/paraphrases?

 

[Lt.Lewis-Rowe]

I don’t think anyone can put themselves into a dramatic situation after the fact. It is amazing what people can do in a traumatic situation. People lift up cars, soldiers sacrifice their lives. People can and will do anything in a traumatic situation.

But isn't that what we're here for? Police,jurors and lawyers do this every day otherwise everyone would be found innocent, every crime could be called a 'crime of passion'. I guess most crimes could be traumatic situations, so evidence would mean nothing if 'people can and will do anything' in such situations..

 

[Tobiano8th]

But isn't that what we're here for? Police,jurors and lawyers do this every day otherwise everyone would be found innocent, every crime could be called a 'crime of passion'. I guess most crimes could be traumatic situations, so evidence would mean nothing if 'people can and will do anything' in such situations..

i think most unbiased observers think PR wrote the note......THERE IS NO CONCRETE EVIDENCE to say it was her. i'll give u that.

so much stuff points to the R's knowing what happened to JBR............ and then if it's highly unlikely that IDI, then RDI. and one of the R's wrote the RN

lawyering up so quickly is basically acknowledgement that they know what happened to JBR IMHO. these are not poor black men who are going to be abused by the police. there was no hostility to the R's nor anyone pointing the finger when they hired lawyers.. in fact, they complain about people jumping to conclusions and then point the finger at others.

i was involved in something where many people were interviewed over a controversial matter. .... i will say that the people who had NO questionable conduct in the affair all did NOT hire lawyers. "why do i need to hire a lawyer when i'm 100% innocent?"....... everyone else hired lawyers.

here are 2 biggies,

1) PR phone call to police didn't cut off properly ... her demeanor seemed completely different off the phone than on the phone........... didn't even mention the the RN mentioned "no police".... the police dispatcher thought it was odd.

2) the 11 am ransom deadline came and went with the R's seemingly not concerned about that.. is that because they knew there was no real kidnapping?

basically, i don't think you will find airtight evidence that PR wrote the note.... but there's tons of good evidence that she did (some evidence possibly contradicts it too, i think)...........

i think most believe it is implausible that IDI (or something similar.. "business revenge person did it").... ERGO, if no IDI, then R's are responsible (likely accidential incident). and then PR/JR wrote the note.... i realize this is inductive reasoning.

FBI had never seen a note like that....... nor had they ever had a fake kidnapping with a dead body in the family's house before........ never

 

[Tobiano8th]

the ransom demand deadline coming and passing with no Ramsey interest in it is potentially very damning...... hope that's correct.... i will say i'm surprised BPD didn't mention it, but maybe they wanted to see if R's mentioned it.

have been reading about Lou Smit, a first-rate detective (at one time) and in this case, R's biggest defender........ it concerns me that 1) he thought R's were guilty until he did prayer circle with them - yikes!!, 2) he was involved in some media work where content that was clearly false was presented... Lou is so sure of his opinion that he needs false information to argue his case. i need to find the specifics......

 

[Cottonstar]

Lt.Lewis-Rowe,
It could the Ramsey's revised their plan as to who was going to be prime suspect?

Initially they may have had someone from John's workplace lined up as a potential suspect.

For some reason they changed their mind and named the housekeeper as a likely suspect.

Many of the items and evidence left in the basement appear to be remnants from a prior staging, e.g. consider John and the broken window.

So whilst the Ramsey's might not be stupid people, they are certainly not schooled in staging crime-scenes, hence they made a complete mess fabricating JonBenet's.

.

The first suspect John named, when asked by Whitson, was Jeff Merrick.

 

[David Rogers]

But isn't that what we're here for? Police,jurors and lawyers do this every day otherwise everyone would be found innocent, every crime could be called a 'crime of passion'. I guess most crimes could be traumatic situations, so evidence would mean nothing if 'people can and will do anything' in such situations..

But isn't that what we're here for? Police,jurors and lawyers do this every day otherwise everyone would be found innocent, every crime could be called a 'crime of passion'. I guess most crimes could be traumatic situations, so evidence would mean nothing if 'people can and will do anything' in such situations..

I was replying to people who say parents could not do this, Patsy couldn’t write the note, no parent would violate their child or stage a crime. In that situation you can not judge what a person would or wouldn’t do.
“
Lt.Lewis-Rowe said: ↑
I don't believe the 'cover-up' theory... or that Patsy wrote the note.... if your daughter had just been killed... by accident or whatever, even if you were not the most maternal person in the world, you're not going to be in a state to write such a long, detailed ransom letter... leaving your handwriting open to professional analysis, when "WE HAVE YOUR DAUGHTER" would have done the same job. The less writing, the less to question...
Thoughts?