What will be the outcome of the Oscar Pistorius Trial?

[Coldpizza]

Oscar Pistorius Indictment:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/161348107/Oscar-Pistorius-indictment


Thread where members are discussing the case:

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=205154"]Oscar Pistorius charged with murdering his girlfriend Reeva Steenkamp #4 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

 

[Estelle]

Oscar Pistorius Indictment:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/161348107/Oscar-Pistorius-indictment


Thread where members are discussing the case:

Oscar Pistorius charged with murdering his girlfriend Reeva Steenkamp #4 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

Thanks Coldpizza. Does this appear at the top of each thread now?

I have voted already.

 

[Coldpizza]

Your welcome, and the voting options will always remain at the top.

 

[fruity]

I voted for culpable homicide but of course am hoping for murder. Knowing how corrupt the SA legal system can be I wouldn't be shocked if he's found innocent. I would be nicely surprised but shocked if they find him guilty of premeditated murder.

 

[Estelle]

I agree with the Prosecution that it is a case of premeditated murder as OP did not fire only one shot, he fired four! They have over 100 witnesses, seem to have done all they could do to prove this, he has a history of violence, etc.

But there could be some surprises with what the Defence comes up with to minimise the sentence.

 

[Interested Bystander]

I also voted for culpable homicide as IMO that is what the judge will hand down but, without doubt, I feel that it should be premeditated murder. I feel there is going to be a miscarriage of justice but sincerely hope not.

 

[Indy Anna]

IMO, a judgment of murder is most appropriate for the crime and is the most likely outcome. Murder differs from culpable homicide in that it involves criminal intent. But, murder does not involve planning to the extent of premeditated murder. The latter would be applicable if O.P. thought out beforehand the time and conditions under which he would kill Reeva. For instance, premeditated murder would apply if O.P. arranged for Reeva to arrive at his house at a specified time, hid behind the front door or at the top of the stairs, and then shot her as she walked inside.


While I believe the evidence shows O.P. intended to kill Reeva, I think it also shows he likely did so in a moment of rage. The thought of killing Reeva did not enter his mind until seconds (or a few minutes, at the most) before he first pulled the trigger, IMO.

 

[Estelle]

What are the sentencing guidelines for premeditated murder?

For premeditated murder, the mandatory sentence in South Africa is a life sentence, which in practice is 25 years unless someone can prove extraordinary circumstances.

Extraordinary circumstances could include a combination of number of factors: for example, that it was a first offense, the age of the person and in Pistorius' case, his disability and the impact this could have had on his actions.

However, Grant said if the court accepted the prosecution's case -- that Pistorius chased Steenkamp into the bathroom and "hunted" her down -- his defense team would be hard-pressed to convince the court that there should be any considerations that should override the repugnance that should be felt.

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/02/22/world/africa/pistorius-legal-q-and-a/

 

[Estelle]

What happens if Pistorius is found not guilty of premeditated murder?

If Pistorius faces trial for premeditated murder but is found not guilty, he would face a "competent verdict" or lesser charge of culpable homicide, which is based on negligence.

Pistorius is not claiming self-defense; he is claiming to have been mistaken about his need for self-defense. He is denying that he intentionally unlawfully killed Steenkamp.

Grant said the defense boiled down to Pistorius saying "I made a mistake."
If the court were to rule that the mistake was unreasonable -- based on what an objective, ordinary South African would do in the circumstances of the accused -- he would be found guilty of culpable homicide.

Grant said he would expect a court to probably conclude that it is unreasonable to fire at anybody through a closed door regardless of whether they were an intruder, because of the value of human life.

"I'm expecting that if he beats the murder charge, he is in very grave jeopardy of being convicted of culpable homicide," he said.

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/02/22/world/africa/pistorius-legal-q-and-a/

 

[Interested Bystander]

I agree Estelle. From what we "know" I think it was premeditated in the sense that he had time to stop himself but didn't. I also agree with an earlier poster who thinks the shooting was carried out in a fit of rage. He murdered when he was "out of control" and this may be used in the DT's case. He was fully aware it was RS in the toilet cubicle BUT I do see his DT, who we know to be very competent, screwing up the trial with their explanations and excuses surrounding the event. We have seen how they managed to run rings around the PT at his bail hearing. One of OP's problems is his affidavit. This has locked him into a story with lots of "holes" in it. Hopefully the state's PT will be a decidedly more competent at the trial.

 

[Estelle]

I agree Estelle. From what we "know" I think it was premeditated in the sense that he had time to stop himself but didn't. I also agree with an earlier poster who thinks the shooting was carried out in a fit of rage. He murdered when he was "out of control" and this may be used in the DT's case. He was fully aware it was RS in the toilet cubicle BUT I do see his DT, who we know to be very competent, screwing up the trial with their explanations and excuses surrounding the event. We have seen how they managed to run rings around the PT at his bail hearing. One of OP's problems is his affidavit. This has locked him into a story with lots of "holes" in it. Hopefully the state's PT will be a decidedly more competent at the trial.

IMO there is no crime of passion in SA, that is only in France. One bullet OK but not four through a closed door when it was not in his self-defence.

 

[Interested Bystander]

I remember reading this and thought that it inferred a crime of passion was a possible option.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/Pistorius-Crime-of-passion-not-ruled-out-20130610

 

[Interested Bystander]

As I have indicated on the main thread I think he is guilty of premeditated murder but this poll, I thought, was to indicate what we thought the judge's verdict might be. I think it may well be Culpable Homicide but against this is the weight of OP's affidavit in which he clearly states he thought it was an intruder. Unless he changes his plea, which I assume he can do if he feels the evidence is so strong that it his only option, is to state what really happened. If he does this I think the judge may well accept he killed whilst in a rage and out of control. There are, it seems, witnesses to a loud argument. It may well go in his favour if he were to admit there had been a dreadful argument. However, this too creates a problem if we find there definitely were two sets of shots. That drags me back to premeditated murder or insanity.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

If they manage to prove there was a fight between the two of them (as I believe) then I still think he'll only get a light sentence .. I have no faith in the justice system there, or anywhere, when it comes to people of his status.

Wouldn't Dominick Dunne have loved this one?

 

[Estelle]

Oscar Pistorius Shooting: Olympian Joked About Killing Intruder On Twitter

Oscar Pistorius joked about killing an intruder on Twitter in November last year, less than three months before the Olympian's girlfriend Reeva Steenkamp was shot dead at his Pretoria home.

Pistorius tweeted on 27 November: "Nothing like getting home to hear the washing machine on and thinking its an intruder to go into full combat recon mode into the pantry! waa."

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/02/14/oscar-pistorius-shooting-tweet_n_2686897.html

 

[Estelle]

A crime of passion refers to a criminal act in which the perpetrator commits a crime, especially murder or assault, against someone because of sudden strong impulse such as sudden rage rather than as a premeditated crime.

A typical crime of passion might involve an aggressive pub-goer who assaults another guest following an argument or a husband who discovers his wife has made him a cuckold and proceeds to brutally batter or even kill his wife and the man with whom she was involved.

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_of_passion"]Crime of passion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

I therefore disagree that this was a crime of passion as it was NOT SUDDEN.

The arguing was first heard much earlier in the evening. I cannot remember exactly when now but between 8 and 9pm IIRC. Then it escalated to just before midnight when security or police were called and the arrived around 1am. The arguing was then heard again from 2-3am. These are approximate times.

So the arguing (which was loud enough for neighbours to hear) could have gone on for up to SEVEN HOURS. THIS IS NOT SUDDEN.

It would only be sudden if OP came home and found RS in bed with someone else and the shot her on impulse. That is sudden rage.

In the United States civil courts, a crime of passion is referred to as "TEMPORARY INSANITY".

In some countries, notably France, crime passionnel (or crime of passion) was a valid defense during murder cases; during the 19th century, some cases could be a custodial sentence for two years for the murderer, while the spouse was dead.

This ended in France as the Napoleonic code was updated in the 1970s so that a specific father's authority upon his whole family was over.

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_of_passion"]Crime of passion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

 

[Estelle]

Pistorius: Crime of passion not ruled out

Please note that this article was on 10th June, 2013 before the indictment.

"Pretoria - The State will attempt to prove that Oscar Pistorius killed Reeva Steenkamp on the spur of the moment, and the possibility of a “crime of passion” has not been ruled out."

BBM I think this article should read that the Defence will try to prove crime of passion NOT the State..

A source made this revelation to Volksblad based on forensic evidence that was gathered at the crime scene.

In legal terms, a crime of passion is a defendant's excuse for a violent crime due to sudden rage or heartbreak, rather than a premeditated crime.

IMO the evidence of SEVERAL earwitnesses regarding the arguing will not support the theory that this was a SUDDEN CRIME BASED ON IMPULSE.

The source also revealed that the trajectory of the bullets through the bathroom door indicated that Pistorius may indeed have been on his stumps when he fired the shots.

imo we still do not know for sure whether OP was on his stumps or not. There have been different opinions about that including one statement that it did not matter if he was or was not. It has relevance to show his apparent vulnerability to an intruder and shows that if he was not on his stumps he took time to put them on showing more premeditation. But he also took time to get his gun.

The source indicated he didn’t think it was right of the State to claim in the bail application that Pistorius was wearing his prosthetics before having analysed the evidence.

That could be true but now OP has employed a US forensics team to try to support his claim that he was on his stumps so it is an important aspect of the case. The Prosecution eventually indicted OP on premeditation so maybe it was obvious to Botha before the bail hearing that OP was not wearing his stumps. IMO they had not been to bed that night so it is more likely OP did not have his stumps on. Also, what is the difference between his kneeling down to shoot while on his prosthetics and having his stumps on? A few centimetres perhaps.

It would also appear that the first shot that hit her was to the lower body. If the first shot fired from the 9mm pistol had been to her head, she would immediately have fallen forward, according to the source. Steenkamp apparently had several wounds.

How can the Defence prove that the first shot hit her lower body and that she did not immediately fall down on the first shot?

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/Pistorius-Crime-of-passion-not-ruled-out-20130610

IMO if the Prosecution with all its over 100 witnesses has the evidence that we have been told they have, this was not a crime of passion. OP also failed to disclose the arguments they had that night in his affidavit. Why?

 

[Estelle]

It is 2nd November, 2013 today and 55% of Websleuths posters think that Pistorius is either Guilty of premeditated murder (16 31.37%) or Guilty of murder (12 23.53%) and ( 9 17.65%) think he is guilty of Guilty of culpable homicide making a total of 73% who think he should face a term in jail. Question is how long?

 

[Interested Bystander]

Could I say again I, personally, don't think it was a crime of passion. I think he is a trigger happy, unbalanced, irresponsible individual (evidenced by his known arguments and behaviour).

The following is purely hypothetical and would entail OP changing his plea. There could be a possibility, given that there seems to have been a very audible argument, that the judge may come down on the side of a charge which would get him a lesser sentence. However, I do not think that CoP (or whatever the court deems this type of murder) would be entertained unless he changes his plea.

I have a nasty feeling that someone in OP's position will be treated differently as under SA law weak sentencing seems to be heavily weighted in favour of the wealthy.

Premeditated Murder - 25 years
Murder - 15 years
Culpable Homicide - 5 years, out in 2 or even suspended
Other ie CoP (unsure what the exact terminology would be) - No prison term, paying only a fine.

 

[Estelle]

Could I say again I, personally, don't think it was a crime of passion. I think he is a trigger happy, unbalanced, irresponsible individual (evidenced by his known arguments and behaviour).

The following is purely hypothetical and would entail OP changing his plea. There could be a possibility, given that there seems to have been a very audible argument, that the judge may come down on the side of a charge which would get him a lesser sentence. However, I do not think that CoP (or whatever the court deems this type of murder) would be entertained unless he changes his plea.

I have a nasty feeling that someone in OP's position will be treated differently as under SA law weak sentencing seems to be heavily weighted in favour of the wealthy.

Premeditated Murder - 25 years
Murder - 15 years
Culpable Homicide - 5 years, out in 2 or even suspended
Other ie CoP (unsure what the exact terminology would be) - No prison term, paying only a fine.

I have understood since the beginning that evidence of a "very audible argument" that went on for hours and hours would come against OP rather than in his favour.

I also say this because it appears that his Defence might have helped OP in writing his Affidavit, and if they had thought that mentioning the long loud argument would ave helped OP in any way, they would have suggested that he should include it.

PISTORIUS INTENTIONALLY FAILS TO DISCLOSE THE ARGUING. HE MAKES IT SOUND AS IF IT WAS A QUIET EVENING OF DOMESTIC BLISS

16.4 On the 13th of February 2013 Reeva would have gone out with her friends and I with my friends. Reeva then called me and asked that we rather spend the evening at home. I agreed and we were content to have a quiet dinner together at home. By about 22h00 on 13 February 2013 we were in our bedroom. She was doing her yoga exercises and I was in bed watching television. My prosthetic legs were off. We were deeply in love and I could not be happier. I know she felt the same way. She had given me a present for Valentine’s Day but asked me only to open it the next day.

16.5 After Reeva finished her yoga exercises she got into bed and we both fell asleep.

16.6 I am acutely aware of violent crime being committed by intruders entering homes with a view to commit crime, including violent crime. I have received death threats before. I have also been a victim of violence and of burglaries before. For that reason I kept my firearm, a 9 mm Parabellum, underneath my bed when I went to bed at night.

16.7 During the early morning hours of 14 February 2013, I woke up, went onto the balcony to bring the fan in and closed the sliding doors, the blinds and the curtains. I heard a noise in the bathroom and realised that someone was in the bathroom.

16.8 I felt a sense of terror rushing over me. There are no burglar bars across the bathroom window and I knew that contractors who worked at my house had left the ladders outside. Although I did not have my prosthetic legs on I have mobility on my stumps.

http://www.news.com.au/world/read-o...mp-was-shot-dead/story-fndir2ev-1226581625792

BUT IT APPEARS THAT THIS WAS NOT THE CASE SO BECAUSE PISTORIUS IMO HAS PERJURED HIMSELF, IF I WAS THE JUDGE, I WOULD NOT TAKE MERCY ON HIM.