The Ramsey's were just as concerned about salvaging their public image as the were with getting away with the crime. They were very careful to push the religious aspect, and the lack of need for vengance played right in to that. They were appealing to middle America. I'd read somewhere that when the Ramsey's moved to Boulder they really weren't avid church goers, but decided to join and upscale parish in an effort to expand their social circle. If that is true then it just goes to show that these people will use whatever tools they have at their disposal to accomplish their goals.
Which is strongest RDI evidence?
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The Ramsey's were just as concerned about salvaging their public image as the were with getting away with the crime. They were very careful to push the religious aspect, and the lack of need for vengance played right in to that. They were appealing to middle America. I'd read somewhere that when the Ramsey's moved to Boulder they really weren't avid church goers, but decided to join and upscale parish in an effort to expand their social circle. If that is true then it just goes to show that these people will use whatever tools they have at their disposal to accomplish their goals.
OliviaG1996
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The "we have got to go on" comment from JR is reminiscent to BR's comment to his psychologist, isn't it?
Excerpt from the Bonita Papers: "Burke also told Dr. Bernhard that he was 'getting on with his life.', another very abnormal reaction for a child who had so recently lost his sibling."
JMO.
InstantProof
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Are there other quotes from them publicly in regards to who did this and how they feel about them? I think there were a few odd ones.
questfortrue
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One of my personal favorite revelatory comments was JRs statement in 2012 to Nightline:
The father of JonBenet Ramsey, the 6-year-old beauty pageant queen who was found dead in 1996 and whose killing has never been solved, told Nightline he believes his daughters killer is still at large but that the trail has gone cold. Hes either alive, dead or in prison, and one of those three, John Ramsey told ABC News Juju Chang.
Well, no wonder the case has gone cold. That narrows the possible number of folks yet to be investigated down to what . . . millions? :doh:
The father of JonBenet Ramsey, the 6-year-old beauty pageant queen who was found dead in 1996 and whose killing has never been solved, told Nightline he believes his daughters killer is still at large but that the trail has gone cold. Hes either alive, dead or in prison, and one of those three, John Ramsey told ABC News Juju Chang.
Well, no wonder the case has gone cold. That narrows the possible number of folks yet to be investigated down to what . . . millions? :doh:
887sMtreme
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Yikes. That makes some pretty serious sense.
InstantProof
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This is what I've been thinking for a while, it makes sense in some of the ways they have publicly addressed the killer.
I think that was the idea from the beginning, qft.
questfortrue
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Bardach's October 1997 Vanity Fair article also mentions something interesting-
The following day (12/27), investigators videotaped an interview with JAR, at the conclusion of which they asked him what he thought an appropriate punishment would be for the person that committed this crime. After a thoughtful pause he said, "Forgiveness." Incredulous, the detectives went into the brutality of his half-sister's murder and asked him to reconsider his answer. Another silence ensued, then he said again, "Forgiveness."
For me, it all comes down to this: every piece of evidence, real or imagined, can be seen in two different ways, until you view it in the proper context, which is that the Ramseys CAN be placed in the house that night, while no one else can, and it ain't for lack of trying.
Mark Beckner recently set it in concrete for me: up to 2 hours between the head blow and the strangulation. Even if you could somehow convince me that an intruder killer could enter and exit a house like a ghost and leave nothing behind but his memory, there's no way in Heaven, Hell or on Earth that you'll convince me that he/she spent anywhere from an extra 45 minutes to 2 hours inside a locked house without anybody hearing anything. NO WAY.
And if anyone has any doubt about that, think long and hard about this, and apply basic sense: how long could an intruder spend in YOUR home undetected. Thank you, good night!
Mark Beckner recently set it in concrete for me: up to 2 hours between the head blow and the strangulation. Even if you could somehow convince me that an intruder killer could enter and exit a house like a ghost and leave nothing behind but his memory, there's no way in Heaven, Hell or on Earth that you'll convince me that he/she spent anywhere from an extra 45 minutes to 2 hours inside a locked house without anybody hearing anything. NO WAY.
And if anyone has any doubt about that, think long and hard about this, and apply basic sense: how long could an intruder spend in YOUR home undetected. Thank you, good night!
elannia
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Exactly, SD. Obviously this "intruder" had no fear of being caught that night and to just hang around after the head blow and then time goes by the "intruder" decides to strangle her then, its just baloney. This was done by someone in the family that night and if a parent had done it then they should have spoken up, confessed, and "PROTECTED their son(BR) by not letting his name be put out there in the view of killing his sister.
Global Justice Ops
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We can debate who is responsible for the crime. But I will never understand why the debate persists over which injury came first. Dr. Cyril Wecht said the head blow came last even though he believed JR killed JBR.
I'm well-aware of what Cyril Wecht has said and I respect the contributions he's made. But on this specific issue, he's definitely in the minority. The pathologists Beckner referred to are, to name a few, Werner Spitz, Tom Henry, Ronald Wright and Henry Lee.
The confusion (and I'm being generous here) apparently stems from the supposed lack of blood pooling inside JB's skull. The problem with there is that, even if it were fact, head wounds are extremely quirky. No one can really say why one person's head wound bleeds heavily and another person's almost identical injury doesn't. A Denver neurosurgeon, Kerry Brega, stated that it's not unheard of for a severe head injury not to bleed, and those people didn't get strangled beforehand.
If it's worth anything to you, I don't understand the debate either, just from the opposite way.
elannia
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If the R's werent involved then why did BR refuse to talk to LE when they caught up with him. He is older now so he may remember something that he didnt before, obviously they dont want her killer to be "found" and most of us know why. That's just one of the hundreds of reasons im RDI. Even if BR confessed, what would that mean for JR? It is sick to think that a family member would turn an accident into murder, but obviously there was a lot at stake, considering the Sexual abuse done to JB. Something else that makes me sick is when BR put on his FB profile the Christmas morning photo of JB and PR. Maybe he was feeling remorse(maybe he didnt actually hurt her) but someone did and he knows who and if his family was innocent, he would talk now
Mama2JML
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I am unaware of other experts' analyses, specific to this case, and to which you've referred, BUT I am certain (per Thomas, Schiller & Kolar) the theory most often & accurately attributed to Spitz incorporates at least one partial/attempted strangulation prior to the head blow. According to investigators, Spitz cites injuries to the victim's neck ("nail gouges", abrasions & the "roughly triangular" mark) occurring before the TBI.
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Mama2JML,
ITA with you here. The mark that lies beneath the very neat circumferential furrow, is IMO, evidence of a prior manual strangulation, and explains why the R's went down the bizarre route of opting for a garrote, and not simply that of a hand over the mouth, both produce the same outcome, but only one will mask the mark lying beneath the circumferential furrow.
I was watching a UK documentary style crimeshow called The Killer Next Door tonight, and the killers name was Vincent Tabak. He manually asphyxiated a woman in an adjacent flat, and she bled from the nose. This was commented on as indicative of manual strangulation, which made me think again about how JonBenet bled from the nose?
.
Spitz never examined her body. He looked at photographs. The coroner who performed the autopsy noted NO fingernail gouges on her neck. Those marks were identified as petechial hemorrhages. There was no accompanying trauma to her tongue as would be the case if she were gagging and/or struggling. In addition, the coroner noted the ligature furrow as "circumferential". Because an autopsy report does not include explanations or thoughts, you have to understand the implications of that. There was no struggle. Looking at the autopsy photo of the back of her neck, the furrow goes all the way around, and this also indicated she was NOT hung or suspended in any way, as that would have produced a
break in the furrow where the gravity caused the weight of her body to pull away from the cord.
break in the furrow where the gravity caused the weight of her body to pull away from the cord.
Mama2JML
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allysasaurus
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Bc i think BDI, i think the strongest evidence against the ramseys is how outreagous the staging is. If it were a crazy psycho killer intruder he wouldnt have killed her in the basement. He would have killed her in her bedroom... people that messed up cant wait to commit their crime like they are excited about it.
If it were a kidnapping her body wouldnt be in the house. Probably ditched outside somewhere or not recovered. The staging is like out of a movie!
If it were a kidnapping her body wouldnt be in the house. Probably ditched outside somewhere or not recovered. The staging is like out of a movie!
Mama2JML, I'm gonna let that opportunity glide right by and reply like a gentleman.
Ronald Wright, director of the forensic pathology department at the University of Miami School of Medicine told the Rock Mountain News:
"The blow to her head -- which Wright is convinced was not from a golf club but more likely a blunt object such as a baseball bat or heavy flashlight -- came first, Wright said. "She was whopped on the head a long time before she was strangled," said Wright. 'That might or might not have rendered her unconscious. But this is not anything that kills her right away.' He said 20 to 60 minutes elapsed between the skull fracture and the strangulation."
Forensic pathologist Tom Henry told FOXNews:
"The fact that she's got this extensive injury described as a blood clot in the scalp indicates a little longer period of time that she had to survive ... a little more blood pumping under pressure for a longer period of time," he said.
Henry Lee described the head wound as "fully developed" in his book, Cracking More Cases.
Which brings me to:
Yes, I had heard that. ST wrote about that in his book. Even so, this is what Spitz had to say:
http://thewebsafe.tripod.com/03172000spitzondiscovery.htm
You believe JBR was hit on the head first, and then strangled.
Dr. WS: Yes.
LC: But in reports published this week, a former detective, who also worked on the case, claimed the head wound did not bleed enough to be the first injury, but Spitz says, he can prove his case, and it's believed the Boulder police agree.
Dr.WS: Because there was hemmoraging in the brain.
LC: There was hemmoraging in the brain?
Dr.WS: There was hemmoraging in the scalp, in the skin,in other words,
LC: Spitz says those hemmorages would not have formed if JB was already dead of strangulation when she suffered the head injury.
Dr.WS: She did have a circulation....she did have blood clots, she did have heart beat, she did breathe, for awhile, after the head injury.
I'm not aware of Spitz mentioning "nail gouges."