Who molested/abused Jonbenet?

[Darlene733510]

I was just thinking about where JB was first assaulted, and what happened afterward.
I always wondered why JR's bathrobe was downstairs. Could the incident with the head bash have been done just after JR went to bed? Suppose this is what happened - JB was unconscious and, in a panic, PR yelled for JR to come downstairs. He would have put on his bathrobe to go downstairs. Did he attend to JB wearing that robe? Why was the robe left downstairs? When did he change to regular clothes? Was the robe taken for evidence, and was it sent to the lab for,testing, or was that overlooked like so many other things? Did he have the robe on when he put the garrote on her neck.
I would guess that after JB was dead, JR left the robe downstairs, and changed into street clothes so he could go outside and get rid of evidence.
I believe the head bash was done in JB's bedroom or bathroom, and JR carried her down to the basement.

 

[UKGuy]

I was just thinking about where JB was first assaulted, and what happened afterward.
I always wondered why JR's bathrobe was downstairs. Could the incident with the head bash have been done just after JR went to bed? Suppose this is what happened - JB was unconscious and, in a panic, PR yelled for JR to come downstairs. He would have put on his bathrobe to go downstairs. Did he attend to JB wearing that robe? Why was the robe left downstairs? When did he change to regular clothes? Was the robe taken for evidence, and was it sent to the lab for,testing, or was that overlooked like so many other things? Did he have the robe on when he put the garrote on her neck.
I would guess that after JB was dead, JR left the robe downstairs, and changed into street clothes so he could go outside and get rid of evidence.
I believe the head bash was done in JB's bedroom or bathroom, and JR carried her down to the basement.

Darlene733510,
Yes JR's robe is interesting, but what you suggest might be contradicted by the fiber evidence found on JonBenet. Since he would have to run back upstair to fetch his shirt to wipe JonBenet, thereby implicating himself in the crime?

I think the headbash was the first attempt at staging by the person who sexually assaulted JonBenet.

They intended to suggest JonBenet fell down the stairs?


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[Darlene733510]

Whatever material JR's shirt was made of, would depend on whether it was washable, or had to be sent to the cleaners. I know they had a laundry shoot, and read that JR was the only one that used it. Suppose the shirt went down the chute, probably somewhere near the laundry. If JR had his robe on, he could have grabbed the shirt and used it to wipe JB. If the BPD had an ounce of brains, they would have taken the dirty clothes and those from the chute - probably would have had JR's underwear too. Maybe they did, but we just don't know. This could be one of the things AH chose to ignore.

 

[UKGuy]

Whatever material JR's shirt was made of, would depend on whether it was washable, or had to be sent to the cleaners. I know they had a laundry shoot, and read that JR was the only one that used it. Suppose the shirt went down the chute, probably somewhere near the laundry. If JR had his robe on, he could have grabbed the shirt and used it to wipe JB. If the BPD had an ounce of brains, they would have taken the dirty clothes and those from the chute - probably would have had JR's underwear too. Maybe they did, but we just don't know. This could be one of the things AH chose to ignore.

Darlene733510,
I know but why should JR deliberately select his own shirt before that of other non JR items that would have wiped away the forensic evidence?


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[Darlene733510]

Hey UKGuy - maybe it's my "wishful thinking". If JR was the only one who used the laundry chute, and his shirt went down there, then it would have probably been on top of the pile, because it seems everyone else just left their clothes on the floor. We all think JR was a sly brainy guy, but even they slip up sometime. Maybe he just didn't think the dirty laundry could be part of the investigation, and for all we know BPD didn't bother with it. Your theory makes more sense, but mine is one that is just exploring all my "what ifs". LOL

 

[DeeDee249]

Whatever material JR's shirt was made of, would depend on whether it was washable, or had to be sent to the cleaners. I know they had a laundry shoot, and read that JR was the only one that used it. Suppose the shirt went down the chute, probably somewhere near the laundry. If JR had his robe on, he could have grabbed the shirt and used it to wipe JB. If the BPD had an ounce of brains, they would have taken the dirty clothes and those from the chute - probably would have had JR's underwear too. Maybe they did, but we just don't know. This could be one of the things AH chose to ignore.

JR's wool shirt was NEVER actually identified as the source of the fibers found on her thighs and pubic area, where she had been wiped down. It WAS identified as the source of the fibers inside the panty crotch of the panties she was wearing. The robe found in the den was said to be dark blue cotton terry. Of course, we do not know whether the robe was taken into evidence. The wool short WAS in evidence, and had it been used to wipe her down, her blood would be on that shirt. It would be impossible for the fibers to belong to that shirt and there NOT to be blood on the shirt. For this reason, I have never accepted that JR's shirt was used to wipe her down.
If this had been a REAL criminal investigation (instead of a sham) the fibers would have been tested against the robe, shirt, and every other material in the house that matched in color.

 

[UKGuy]

Hey UKGuy - maybe it's my "wishful thinking". If JR was the only one who used the laundry chute, and his shirt went down there, then it would have probably been on top of the pile, because it seems everyone else just left their clothes on the floor. We all think JR was a sly brainy guy, but even they slip up sometime. Maybe he just didn't think the dirty laundry could be part of the investigation, and for all we know BPD didn't bother with it. Your theory makes more sense, but mine is one that is just exploring all my "what ifs". LOL

Darlene733510,
Sure and you have to do the what if stuff. Some people avoid that since it seems a lot like work, and they end up with crazy theories.

So to expand this subject we can do a little research and see where it goes:


Perfect Murder/Perfect Town, excerpt

PARENTS TURN IN CLOTHES

More than a year after JonBenét Ramsey was murdered, her parents have turned over to Boulder police the clothing they were wearing the night before their 6-year-old daughter was found dead in their home.
Two months after police finally made the request, they received two shirts, a pair of pants and a sweater this week from John and Patsy Ramsey, according to sources. Authorities sought the clothing to compare with fibers found in the case, sources said.
Police have also requested additional interviews with John and Patsy Ramsey and to talk more with their son, Burke, now 11.

—Marilyn Robinson
The Denver Post, January 29, 1998

When the police inspected the clothes they had received—and there were []more items than were reported in the press[/b] they noticed that a red blouse of Patsy’s looked brand-new, as if it had just come off the rack. The detectives were also interested in Patsy’s red-and-black checkerboard-design jacket. Four fibers had been found attached to the duct tape, and they were red and black. The police lost no time in sending the clothing to the CBI for fiber analysis.

Search Warrant 12/27/96, excerpt

Det. Arndt informed Your Affiant that she observed entangled in the hair of the child a green substance. Based upon her observations while at the residence on December 26, 1996, she believed that the green substance observed in the hair of the child was consistent with the green "garland" like decorative Christmas material that she had observed to be decorating the spiral staircase inside the child's home.
Det. Arndt stated to Your Affiant that she was present and observed a visual examination by Dr. Meyer of the shirt worn by the child. She observed and Dr. Meyer preserved dark fibers and [/b]dark hair[/b] on the outside of the shirt.

Det. Arndt told Your Affiant that she personally observed Dr. John Meyer examine the vaginal and pubic areas of the deceased, Dr. Meyer stated that he observed numerous traces of a dark fiber.

Atlanta 2000 John Ramsey Interview, excerpt

21 Q. (By Mr. Levin) Mr. Ramsey, it is

22 our belief based on forensic evidence that

23 there are hairs that are associated, that the

24 source is the collared black shirt that you

25 sent us that are found in your daughter's

0058

1 underpants, and I wondered if you --

2 A. ********. I don't believe that.

3 I don't buy it. If you are trying to

4 disgrace my relationship with my daughter --

5 Q. Mr. Ramsey, I am not trying to

6 disgrace --

Hopefully the above will allow you to decide wether JR tossed his shirt down the laundry chute or removed it from the house?

Note the reference to hairs and not fibers that is interesting.




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[Darlene733510]

I find it so disgusting that the BPD did not immediately take those clothes. Before the R's left the house they should have been searched, including PR's purse, coat pockets, etc. if anyone deserve to be called "Keystone Cops", it is this bunch of bunglers.
What really torques my jaw is that when the GJ verdict would have charged the R's. and all those jurors watched ML exonerate the R's, and not one of them spoke up. Now all these years later we have heard the true verdict of the GJ. This is the most unconscionable act I have ever seen. It reminds me of the Casey Anthony trial, where IMOO another murderer walks away free.
The GJ verdict was 14 years ago, and the public was kept in the dark until just recently. What a shame!!

 

[midwest mama]

I find it so disgusting that the BPD did not immediately take those clothes. Before the R's left the house they should have been searched, including PR's purse, coat pockets, etc. if anyone deserve to be called "Keystone Cops", it is this bunch of bunglers.
What really torques my jaw is that when the GJ verdict would have charged the R's. and all those jurors watched ML exonerate the R's, and not one of them spoke up. Now all these years later we have heard the true verdict of the GJ. This is the most unconscionable act I have ever seen. It reminds me of the Casey Anthony trial, where IMOO another murderer walks away free.
The GJ verdict was 14 years ago, and the public was kept in the dark until just recently. What a shame!!

As heinous as the crime against JB was, the travesty perpetuated over the years by the injustice of such inept behaviors by so many regarding the evidence make this case the 'poster child' for an educational manuscript which could be written and titled: How Not to Solve a Sexual Homicide.

Don't know if you listed to Apr 7 Blog Radio with Wendy Murphy and other guests hosted by Tricia (info and link at the top of the Forum listing), but according to the comments Ms. Murphy and Tricia both made, there is something in the works by WS about learning more of the truth about the indictment details and the case dynamics.

Hang in there - the 'chance arrow' that Steve Thomas mentioned still hasn't found it's target, which means the possibility still exists!

 

[ukrberserker]

Are we absolutely sure the panties found on JBR were brand new? Could they have been washed once before? Maybe JR's shirt, and the panties, got thrown in the dryer at the same time. I only ask because I know from experience how trace evidence can wind up on clean laundry. I've pulled my wife's head hair out of a fresh washed pair of undershorts before. I'm not defending JR, just looking at all possibilities.

 

[Nom de plume]

Are we absolutely sure the panties found on JBR were brand new? Could they have been washed once before? Maybe JR's shirt, and the panties, got thrown in the dryer at the same time. I only ask because I know from experience how trace evidence can wind up on clean laundry. I've pulled my wife's head hair out of a fresh washed pair of undershorts before. I'm not defending JR, just looking at all possibilities.

JR's shirt was Isreali. It would have been very expensive. 99.99% chance the little tag said "Dry Clean Only". I'm presuming most all of JR's shirts went to the dry cleaners, except T-shirts and such. Since this was a black (or very dark) shirt it's even less likely to have been washed, as it would have started to fade from the first wash, even in cold water.

So whether the size 12's were new or not, which I'm betting they were, it's highly improbable that JR's shirt was ever in the washing machine. Also, you would (or should) never wash a black shirt with white, or light colored undies.

 

[Darlene733510]

I have been reading the June 24 1998 questioning of JR by LS. One thing mentioned was that LA found a paper bag of children's clothes next to the den door. She put it in the cloakroom, and JR had no idea why it was there. JR also commented that JB's pillow was gone from her bed.
LS asked them how many garage door openers they had, and JR, said he and Patsy had one in their cars and JAR had one in his car. JR said Jar didn't use his, and that he parked a ways from the house and walked the rest of the way.
LS asked JR if they used JAR's room, and JR said PR used it to fold clothes. Then LS asked this question which I thought was weird. He asked JR if they had a light on in JAR's room. JR's answer was: "This may be a dangerous answer, but I don't think so."
Does anyone remember the testimony where JR said he covered JB with a blanket from the den, and then he covered her with a UCO sweatshirt? If that is true, where did this shirt come from that it was so handy to use, and who did the shirt belong to? Was it JR's, PR's, Burke , or JAR? Too big for Burke - Not PR's style - that only leaves JR and JAR.
When Mike Kane asked JR about the ransom note. JR said that he would have done it on a word processor, or maybe not left a note at all(did he have regrets about the RN?)
When JB first started the pageants, I don't think she could read, so I question the remark that JR said that JB found an article in the paper about a pageant in their area, and she asked about how she could be in one. I think PR was the one that saw the article and hence(hate that word) JB and PR began the pageant circuit.

 

[UKGuy]

I have been reading the June 24 1998 questioning of JR by LS. One thing mentioned was that LA found a paper bag of children's clothes next to the den door. She put it in the cloakroom, and JR had no idea why it was there. JR also commented that JB's pillow was gone from her bed.
LS asked them how many garage door openers they had, and JR, said he and Patsy had one in their cars and JAR had one in his car. JR said Jar didn't use his, and that he parked a ways from the house and walked the rest of the way.
LS asked JR if they used JAR's room, and JR said PR used it to fold clothes. Then LS asked this question which I thought was weird. He asked JR if they had a light on in JAR's room. JR's answer was: "This may be a dangerous answer, but I don't think so."
Does anyone remember the testimony where JR said he covered JB with a blanket from the den, and then he covered her with a UCO sweatshirt? If that is true, where did this shirt come from that it was so handy to use, and who did the shirt belong to? Was it JR's, PR's, Burke , or JAR? Too big for Burke - Not PR's style - that only leaves JR and JAR.
When Mike Kane asked JR about the ransom note. JR said that he would have done it on a word processor, or maybe not left a note at all(did he have regrets about the RN?)
When JB first started the pageants, I don't think she could read, so I question the remark that JR said that JB found an article in the paper about a pageant in their area, and she asked about how she could be in one. I think PR was the one that saw the article and hence(hate that word) JB and PR began the pageant circuit.

Darlene733510,
Perfect Murder/Perfect Town, Excerpt

While John Ramsey and others rushed back to the front of the house, Patsy sat for a moment on a couch in the rear of the house looking out a window. She did not move despite all the shouting that JonBenét had been found. In the living room, John Ramsey grabbed a throw blanket off a chair and placed it over JonBenét’s body. He knelt on the floor next to his daughter, stroked her hair, and then laid down next to her, placing an arm around her. As he hugged his daughter, he began to cry, referring to JonBenét as “my little angel.” Then he rolled away from JonBenét’s body, and looked toward the hallway leading from the back of the house.

Perfect Murder/Perfect Town, Excerpt

Meanwhile, Detective Jim Byfield had obtained a search warrant, and by 8:00 P.M. the police were allowed to begin searching the crime scene. Twenty minutes after they began, coroner John Meyer arrived. JonBenét’s body was still lying at the foot of the lighted Christmas tree in the living room, but now she was covered with a blanket and a Colorado Avalanche sweatshirt. Meyer and his chief investigator, Patricia Dunn, noted the ligature around the child’s neck and around one wrist. The cord around her neck had been pulled through a knot almost like a noose, and a broken, lacquered stick was tied to one end. They could also see a small abrasion or contusion on her right cheek, below her ear. Meyer had left the house by 8:30 P.M. Dunn stayed on to prepare the body for transport to the morgue

JR also commented that JB's pillow was gone from her bed.

Forensically this might be the most important comment!



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[Darlene733510]

Hi UKGUY - I just posted on another section here that JR was shown JB's bedroom pictures, and he did notice the pillow, which was at the foot of the bed. And he thought it unusual that it was there. I have been reading the old stuff, and find a lot of unusual things. From what I read there is a lot we don't know because LS or MK would ask a question about something and not mention what was on the picture that was shown to JR, and I couldn't tell what the item was by the answer he gave. From all the reading I did I know one thing: The R's were ready to pin the murder on everything but the kitchen sink!

 

[UKGuy]

Hi UKGUY - I just posted on another section here that JR was shown JB's bedroom pictures, and he did notice the pillow, which was at the foot of the bed. And he thought it unusual that it was there. I have been reading the old stuff, and find a lot of unusual things. From what I read there is a lot we don't know because LS or MK would ask a question about something and not mention what was on the picture that was shown to JR, and I couldn't tell what the item was by the answer he gave. From all the reading I did I know one thing: The R's were ready to pin the murder on everything but the kitchen sink!

Darlene733510,
Some people think the pillow was taken down stairs and placed under JonBenet's head?

What I reckon is likely is that her bedroom is either the primary crime-scene or a secondary one used for staging?

The R's knew they were safe once they had reached the interview stage, so they took legal advice and answered amnesia to all the difficult questions and flung everyone of their friends under the bus, on other answers, it was the tactics of the desparate. Yet the lack of follow up by the interviewers is suspicious in the context of a BDI.



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[Nom de plume]

Darlene733510,
Some people think the pillow was taken down stairs and placed under JonBenet's head?

What I reckon is likely is that her bedroom is either the primary crime-scene or a secondary one used for staging?

The R's knew they were safe once they had reached the interview stage, so they took legal advice and answered amnesia to all the difficult questions and flung everyone of their friends under the bus, on other answers, it was the tactics of the desparate. Yet the lack of follow up by the interviewers is suspicious in the context of a BDI.



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BBM

Everyone EXCEPT the Stines......interesting.

 

[UKGuy]

BBM

Everyone EXCEPT the Stines......interesting.

Nom de plume,
Yes, very much so, prior abuse obviously explains this away?

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[Nom de plume]

Nom de plume,
Yes, very much so, prior abuse obviously explains this away?

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At the least, involvement of some sort, on at least one family member's behalf. My guess is GS, and yes, abuse.

 

[midwest mama]

At the least, involvement of some sort, on at least one family member's behalf. My guess is GS, and yes, abuse.

Are you thinking Glen (Susan's husband) or Doug (the son, Burke's friend)?

 

[midwest mama]

Hi UKGUY - I just posted on another section here that JR was shown JB's bedroom pictures, and he did notice the pillow, which was at the foot of the bed. And he thought it unusual that it was there. I have been reading the old stuff, and find a lot of unusual things. From what I read there is a lot we don't know because LS or MK would ask a question about something and not mention what was on the picture that was shown to JR, and I couldn't tell what the item was by the answer he gave. From all the reading I did I know one thing: The R's were ready to pin the murder on everything but the kitchen sink!

And JR wasted no time, making "inside job" comments very soon after JB's body was "found". Pretty rapid actions of deflection.