Who molested/abused Jonbenet?

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves

who molested/abused JB?

  • JR

    Votes: 180 27.1%
  • BR

    Votes: 203 30.6%
  • JAR

    Votes: 28 4.2%
  • a close family friend

    Votes: 41 6.2%
  • a stranger/stalker a la JMK

    Votes: 20 3.0%
  • PR-it wasn't sexual abuse,it was corporal punishment

    Votes: 89 13.4%
  • she wasn't previously abused/molested

    Votes: 103 15.5%

  • Total voters
    664
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Thank you, Blue Bottle 01, for the next episode of insomnia's reading material.

Borderline Conditions and Pathological Narcissism (The Master Work Series): Otto F. Kernberg: 9780876687628: Amazon.com: Books@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51wkTVDZRaL.@@AMEPARAM@@51wkTVDZRaL


Otto Kernberg's Pathological Narcissism And The Borderline Condition is good although he is a Freudian. The key for me is the structure difference of the ego between the two. The result is the borderline can act narcissistically without being a true narcissist. They both are susceptible to psychosis but as I remember it borderlines are more likely to dissociate.

Hervey Kleckley's The Mask Of Sanity is also good and it seems to me his examples of psycopaths (1940s) are todays borderlines.

Today we tend to use the term psychopath to mean severe amoral/immoral socially destructive behavior and the term psychosis as severe withdrawal to the point of inability to relate. When in fact there is a large population of "difficult" people that manage to integrate well enough to pass from day to day even though in large sections of their lives they are inept and even destructive.

I suggest a you-tube search for BPD for many personal admissions and lists of well known people that fit the diagnosis. It is surprising how many well thought of people are borderlines.
 
I think the situation you site is exactly what I am talking about. It was emotion based and full of energy and conducted through a personality trait that was used for such circumstances without a severe degree of segregation. I think what we are looking at here is a secondary phase of DID.

All I know about her past is her mother was a pathological narcissist. Sexual molestation can be put under the heading of boundary transgression and that can be done verbally. Psycholgical trauma can be done to children verbally without physical contact and without overt sexual content.

Until I get clear indications of any sexual trangressions in her past I am going with the narcissistic parent.

The more I read, the more I think I know but this Secondary Phase of DID is way over my head, ATPIT.

When I consider psychological sexual trauma, I recall Patsy saying her daughter, who was six-years-old at the time, would be a "Sexy Witch" for Halloween. And she had already taught JonBenét the Chanel sashay and the "Marilyn Monroe" pout. Furthermore, there is the awkward topic of enuresis and encopresis affecting the two Ramsey children that will not be approached but it shall be noted that this condition leans itself toward sexual abuse, in this particular case.

ITA about the Narcissistic Parent and add a Control Freak to the description. When Patsy moved to Atlanta after college graduation, her parents moved to Atlanta, too. Nedra, who remained involved in the Miss America pageant for many years after her daughter's achievements, maintained her living room as a shrine to her two daughter's numerous sashes and crowns.

We all know the slang term "Control Freak" is formally known of as an Obsessive Control Disorder [OCD].
 
People of the Lie is also good.

Agreed.

Also, Thank you BlueBottle/DeeDee- I went to amazon and read the reviews of the book and thought it was fascinating- I want the book now and several of Kernbergs (sp?) others.

Very interesting information. I learn so much here.
 
It occurs to me. Regardless whether you are IDI or RDI

1. the person who molested JonBenet,
2. the person who strangled her
3. the person who wrote the ransom note

..need not necessarily be the same individual. They could be three different individuals. Each with different motives.
 
It occurs to me. Regardless whether you are IDI or RDI

1. the person who molested JonBenet,
2. the person who strangled her
3. the person who wrote the ransom note

..need not necessarily be the same individual. They could be three different individuals. Each with different motives.

Since the molestation occurred at or near point of death I think it would be reasonable to say that these act were almost certainly performed by the same individual.
...

AK
 
Originally Posted by THE BUNK View Post
It occurs to me. Regardless whether you are IDI or RDI

1. the person who molested JonBenet,
2. the person who strangled her
3. the person who wrote the ransom note

..need not necessarily be the same individual. They could be three different individuals. Each with different motives.
Since the molestation occurred at or near point of death I think it would be reasonable to say that these act were almost certainly performed by the same individual.
...

AK

I'm referring to prior molestation before the 26th.

Just because someone was molesting her doesn't mean he was responsible for her death. After all, why kill someone when you have so much access to her.
 
I'm referring to prior molestation before the 26th.

Just because someone was molesting her doesn't mean he was responsible for her death. After all, why kill someone when you have so much access to her.

Well for one thing, I believe her death was NOT intentional. But after that head bash, her death was inevitable. So it wasn't a matter of killing someone you had unlimited opportunities to molest.
 
Well for one thing, I believe her death was NOT intentional. But after that head bash, her death was inevitable. So it wasn't a matter of killing someone you had unlimited opportunities to molest.

Good point. Whether IDI or RDI, I think JBR was irreversibly damaged by the head blow, and for every cause there is a reaction.
 
I'm so tired of these so-called "loving" parents and their lies.

KISS says the people who abused and killed JB are the adults in the house, most likely the male adult.

The end.
 
The thing is, how often do you hear about someone killing a family member to cover up years of sexual abuse? The small amount of victims who are killed are almost always killed by strangers who want to get rid of a witness or because it is part of their fantasy. Family member molestation seems to surprisingly rarely turn violent, given what's at stake. The molesters seem to believe they can keep it quiet through their manipulative relationship with the victim. And I still don't have a good theory as to how it could have been an accident. This case just baffles me.
 
The thing is, how often do you hear about someone killing a family member to cover up years of sexual abuse? The small amount of victims who are killed are almost always killed by strangers who want to get rid of a witness or because it is part of their fantasy. Family member molestation seems to surprisingly rarely turn violent, given what's at stake. The molesters seem to believe they can keep it quiet through their manipulative relationship with the victim. And I still don't have a good theory as to how it could have been an accident. This case just baffles me.

If there was ongoing abuse, which I am not personally convinced there was,
it does not mean that it is relevent to the killing. The Steve Thomas theory was that Patsy lost her temper over bedwetting and caused the head blow in a fury, but not meaning to injure her so severely.

Not saying that is the correct theory, however I personally lean toward a version of that myself. Not so much that it was brought on by the bedwetting, although it's plausable. Then, when the staging took place she wanted it to look like the actions of a sexual sadist. Or a kidnapper who apparently could not control himself long enough to exit the house so instead took her to a hidden room with a tricky light switch that was cluttered with crap. Or whatever.

I think the staging was all over the place because P was unsure of exactly what the scene "should" look like, so she went a bit overboard, not surprising under the circumstance. It worked, almost 20 years later and we are still trying to figure it out.

At any rate, my point is that it is entirely possible that the ongoing molestaion, if it occurred, was not relevent to what happened that night.

Not every single piece has to fit together to make them guilty. It's a preponderance of the evidence.
 
What if? JBR was being molested by JR or BR at night while PR was asleep. The only light in JBRs room left on at night was sometimes the bathroom light and rarely the nightlight. What if she was being fondled and molested and started pooping the bed to try and turn off her attacker? Maybe she shuddered at night as to who would come in her room holding the flashlight to later poke and prod with their fingers? Maybe they even offered her a special treat from her candy box when she behaved? Maybe that is why there was *advertiser censored* smeared on it. Maybe poor, little JBR was being fondled, Patsy became suspicious and found them in the act. She grabs the flashlight but accidentally strikes JBR. Then, JBR seems dead. A tiny bit of blood hits the pillow, or it came from when her abuser tore a little of her hymen. Anyway, she seems dead. Maybe there was arguing and blame-throwing and then a frantic, nonsensical coverup ensues. This is how I see it. Also explains why PR, if you think she wrote the RN, seems so ticked off at John. Also explains their need to move past this and talk forgiveness and all that ridiculous jazz that I do not think someone would say right after your baby girl has been abused and killed! Also explains them getting separate attorneys as soon as possible because seemingly they all had different interests.
 
The thing is, how often do you hear about someone killing a family member to cover up years of sexual abuse? The small amount of victims who are killed are almost always killed by strangers who want to get rid of a witness or because it is part of their fantasy. Family member molestation seems to surprisingly rarely turn violent, given what's at stake. The molesters seem to believe they can keep it quiet through their manipulative relationship with the victim. And I still don't have a good theory as to how it could have been an accident. This case just baffles me.

She was killed accidentally- not to cover up the abuse. But I feel no help was obtained because they were concerned about the prior abuse.
 
Yes, I agree it may be totally irrelevant, but I've just had trouble figuring out how the 'accident' occurred. And Patsy accidentally hitting JB that hard seems very farfetched to me. It would most likely go down as Pasty yelling something in surprise and John jumping away and trying to cover it up, not her charging them with an object while they were still in close proximity.

Also, while, fortunately, I don't know much about physical evidence of child molestation, there are so many discussions about the kids having continence issues and JB having other issues with infections and all that. Isn't it possible that what is seen as evidence of molestation could be related to cleaning, discomfort and 'curiosity'. Some kids have compulsive behavior with certain types of touching that gets them in trouble, that they usually grow out of. It's just something that sticks in my mind because the molestation stuff confuses me.
 
The thing is, how often do you hear about someone killing a family member to cover up years of sexual abuse?


Probably because most of those incidents were successfully covered up, they did not involve young beauty queens and they did not happen on 12/26.

This is scary, but think about it. If you successfully cover up a crime and every one believes it..it's not a story.
 
Probably because most of those incidents were successfully covered up, they did not involve young beauty queens and they did not happen on 12/26.

This is scary, but think about it. If you successfully cover up a crime and every one believes it..it's not a story.

What do you mean by successfully covered up? That someone was arrested for murder, but the abuse was never found? Or that it was just seen as an accident, and the investigation never uncovered the abuse?
 
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