Who molested/abused Jonbenet?

[UKGuy]

How does BR admitting he was up in the middle of the night benefit him? That's beyond self-incriminating.

Userid,
The pineapple requires explaining, even if you claim the intruder served JonBenet, somebody did.

That will be why BR says he went down stairs, he will claim, if asked outright, notice he wasn't, that JonBenet must have risen after him and eaten some pineapple, not much different from stealing or grabbing a few pieces as Spitz claims.

Anyone who reckons BR is innocent still has to offer an explanation for the pineapple and why if it was one of the parents why they never cleaned it away?

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[AB1]

How does BR admitting he was up in the middle of the night benefit him? That's beyond self-incriminating.

He could say:
I put went downstairs using the torch that Dad used and left upstairs (so it doesn't have to be searched for by an intruder)
played with my toy (in the basement/footprint? )
had a snack (pineapple)
and went back to bed.

So everything happens after that...

 

[UKGuy]

I should have added - did team Ramsey know what CBS would include because team Ramsey know what happened that night and CBS got it right?

AB1.
Yes LW and JR were given advance viewing of the CBS drafts. This is normal practice where legal claims are made.

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[AB1]

AB1.
Yes LW and JR were given advance viewing of the CBS drafts. This is normal practice where legal claims are made.

.

BBM

So, was this pre-cut footage, or what was broadcast? (I read somewhere about 2 more hours.) Or just transcripts.
And did they view this pre Dr Phil?

I know it's claimed they are going after Werner over the radio broadcast.
But I suspect what sticks in their craw is Werner's refusal to accept the torch blow was an accident, that the force used bore real malice rather than a flash of unthinking anger. That set him apart from the others on the CBS documentary.

 

[AB1]

Really great question....honestly, I have no idea. It can go either way. For me, it goes against IDI because it gives an even shorter time frame for this murder to occur and makes it impossible for BR to have NOT heard anything.

If I had to guess (and maybe this is my bias talking here), I'd say that BR admitted this to Dr. Phil without knowing the repercussions (without thinking, so to speak). Someone would know better than I would, but if I'm correct, this is the first mention of BR ever being up in the middle of the night, that the public has ever heard of. It's never been brought up in any of the books out there, never been mentioned by Kolar or Thomas, never been seen in any report/interview with any of the R's. The fact it has never been made public before, to me, is evidence that BR may have simply just let it slip to Dr. Phil. Once he let it slip, he wasn't going to go back and try to say otherwise.

Beyond conjecture, I've not read/heard of it any where else either.
Perhaps BR mentioned getting up etc to Dr Phil because it was what he told the GJ?

 

[UKGuy]

BBM

So, was this pre-cut footage, or what was broadcast? (I read somewhere about 2 more hours.) Or just transcripts.
And did they view this pre Dr Phil?

I know it's claimed they are going after Werner over the radio broadcast.
But I suspect what sticks in their craw is Werner's refusal to accept the torch blow was an accident, that the force used bore real malice rather than a flash of unthinking anger. That set him apart from the others on the CBS documentary.

AB1,
Yes, they probably went after Spitz, precisely because he refused to back down and say all the usual stuff.

LW and JR saw all what was to be broadcast and they vetoed the final episode and likely asked for amendments in the second episode, with legal threats of litigation, etc.

So what we saw was probably a watered down version of what was originally filmed, JonBenet stealing pineapple from BR, how lame is that, considering all the hoopla and expense on a mock up of the Ramsey house, etc and all we get is what we already know. This is why I reckon Kolar was so quiet, i.e. legal threats from LW had silenced him.

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[AB1]

AB1,
Yes, they probably went after Spitz, precisely because he refused to back down and say all the usual stuff.

LW and JR saw all what was to be broadcast and they vetoed the final episode and likely asked for amendments in the second episode, with legal threats of litigation, etc.

So what we saw was probably a watered down version of what was originally filmed, JonBenet stealing pineapple from BR, how lame is that, considering all the hoopla and expense on a mock up of the Ramsey house, etc and all we get is what we already know. This is why I reckon Kolar was so quiet, i.e. legal threats from LW had silenced him.

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BBM
Yet they never went after Kolar when his book was published. That puzzles me, given LW's reputation.
Did they fear something that Kolar might say in a deposition, when he was in a position of having to defend his conclusions with evidence?

 

[Ambitioned]

BBM
Yet they never went after Kolar when his book was published. That puzzles me, given LW's reputation.
Did they fear something that Kolar might say in a deposition, when he was in a position of having to defend his conclusions with evidence?

People say its because Kolar has no money so to speak. I think that's a lame excuse. I think it goes deeper than that, as you said. They know Kolar reviewed mountains of evidence.

 

[UKGuy]

BBM
Yet they never went after Kolar when his book was published. That puzzles me, given LW's reputation.
Did they fear something that Kolar might say in a deposition, when he was in a position of having to defend his conclusions with evidence?

AB1,
Kolar never stated outright as Spitz did that Burke deliberately killed JonBenet, lots of hints and pointers but no real accusation.

Yes, Kolar knows where all the bodies are buried, he knows who to ask evidence from, where the documents are hiding, and what Hunter does not want the world to know, probably some familial incest behavior, that he knew all along?

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[RL2]

SS story and behavior is similar to the R's, she has someone to protect, at any cost, e.g. impersonating police officers.

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Yep. Doug Stine.

 

[TeaTime]

I have to post this, and you probably will hate me for it....but what is the thing with this girl, hundreds, thousands of boys and girls all over the world are killed, abused, traficked and whatever horrible things...what makes this one beautiful girl so special........

This little girl was the daughter of a US Navy Pilot, President of a billion dollar business with government contracts and Miss West Virginia. Prestigious people, beautiful beauty pageant child, mini-Mansion, planes and sailboats and we got a close up of it all at the worst time of their lives. Details, speculation and sensationalism covered their horror show and public fall from grace. The Pride and Prejudice of ransom notes, the body in the basement, the flashy house, the jewels, furs and Jaguar cars. It sells and it sells and it sells.

The poor child who left blood stains all over her drug addicted bio-dad's ramshackle house after his weekend black-out party and disappeared, never to be found again does not get the same attention. I think it is because we know why this child was killed, she was put at risk by being with her drug addict bio-dad and his less than stellar drug addict buddies. We hate it but we didn't expect better of such a person. But, the hero and the beauty queen in the mansion, we can't grasp the idea.

OJ wasn't the first man to brutally kill his ex-wife and an innocent friend. It happens everyday. He was just the first really famous guy, liked by everyone, with a gorgeous ex and two children from their mixed race marriage and a lavish lifestyle. Lots of other women get murdered by exes and no one but LE, family and court employees even know their names.

 

[BOBON]

JAR had an unoccupied bedroom in the house suggesting that he has lived with the family prior. What if he was the original sexual abuser, to both BR and JB. I've read many incident/forensic psychology reports where an older sibling abused younger siblings and because of that, the younger siblings turned into abusers too. For example if he told BR what to do to his sister and that evoked some sort of emotion in him, or maybe BR turned to it after JAR left due to trauma. A behavior like that usually doesn't come out of no where and can be learned and passed on.

 

[Miz Adventure]

JAR had an unoccupied bedroom in the house suggesting that he has lived with the family prior. What if he was the original sexual abuser, to both BR and JB. I've read many incident/forensic psychology reports where an older sibling abused younger siblings and because of that, the younger siblings turned into abusers too. For example if he told BR what to do to his sister and that evoked some sort of emotion in him, or maybe BR turned to it after JAR left due to trauma. A behavior like that usually doesn't come out of no where and can be learned and passed on.

I wouldn't rule it out.

 

[Ambitioned]

I wouldn't rule it out.

I'd like to think PR would have exposed him but no, I wouldn't rule it out either.

 

[BBB167893]

I'd like to think PR would have exposed him but no, I wouldn't rule it out either.

That's if she knew about it. That kind of thing is DAMNED hard to catch.

 

[BBB167893]

I'd like to think PR would have exposed him but no, I wouldn't rule it out either.

That's if she knew about it. That kind of thing is DAMNED hard to catch.

 

[singularity]

BBM
Yet they never went after Kolar when his book was published. That puzzles me, given LW's reputation.
Did they fear something that Kolar might say in a deposition, when he was in a position of having to defend his conclusions with evidence?

No offense to Kolar but they likely would've deemed him and more specifically that book as "small potatoes". Had Kolar went on a full court media press and his book received much more attention, their feelings might have been much different. Kolar's book basically flew under the radar.

JAR had an unoccupied bedroom in the house suggesting that he has lived with the family prior. What if he was the original sexual abuser, to both BR and JB. I've read many incident/forensic psychology reports where an older sibling abused younger siblings and because of that, the younger siblings turned into abusers too. For example if he told BR what to do to his sister and that evoked some sort of emotion in him, or maybe BR turned to it after JAR left due to trauma. A behavior like that usually doesn't come out of no where and can be learned and passed on.

As Sam Kinison once said to Rodney Dangerfield, I like the way you think...

I completely agree about JAR. That guy got really lucky and should've had a ton of splainin' to do. The fact that John wanted him ruled out instantly was a red flag that went ignored. Not a red flag of murder but one of possible abuse.

If another attempt is ever made again at taking a genuine stab at the case, JAR must be interviewed about his time in that house. I'd also like to know his feelings on that pesky suitcase that Mr. Phantom Intruder chose as a step through the window. Interesting contents in that there suitcase.....wouldn't ya say, JAR?

 

[BOBON]

I completely agree about JAR. That guy got really lucky and should've had a ton of splainin' to do. The fact that John wanted him ruled out instantly was a red flag that went ignored. Not a red flag of murder but one of possible abuse.

If another attempt is ever made again at taking a genuine stab at the case, JAR must be interviewed about his time in that house. I'd also like to know his feelings on that pesky suitcase that Mr. Phantom Intruder chose as a step through the window. Interesting contents in that there suitcase.....wouldn't ya say, JAR?

I completely agree, even if he is innocent, you'd assume that he'd at least try to help with whatever minuscule information he has about the family but he just escaped and moved out of the picture. Why so shy? Either way, we can spin the theory further and speculate some more.. there was a blanket with JAR's sperm in the suit case, sure most male teenagers will have sperm on their duvet at some point.. but the fact it was paired with the dr suess book is strange. Of course it could all just be a coincidence, things like that happen... but it could also be his "let me show you what they do on the pictures and let's reenact it" time with either BR or JB.... but I am aware my theory is far fetched.

 

[andreww]

I think Burke knew before he left the house that he was to say nothing except that he was asleep. If by chance he did say what happened, it makes no sense that Thomas believed one thing and Kolar another. What FW saw has been pretty well documented, even if we haven't heard it from his own lips.


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[andreww]

their behavior makes so much sense if BDI,isn't it?still,if it was just a kids game that resulted in an accident,why such a horrible staging?or was everything real and they had to cover for a really deranged kid?look at how it turned out,their lives a mess,all of them under the umbrella for life,dad accused of sex abuse,mom accused of being a psycho enraged killer.was it worth it?wouldn't it be fair for BR to stand up now if so and tell the truth?even lie,"it was just an accident,we were kids",bla,bla.after everything his parents went through for him,I think he should do it.
I still have a problem with how soon and easily BR was cleared by authorities.
even if:

Boulder District Attorney Alex Hunter is among those who privately considered the possibility that Burke played a role in the death of his sister. "I wonder if Burke is involved in this," Hunter mused out loud one day, former Boulder police detective Steve Thomas wrote in his book.

Hunter declared publicly in 1999 that Burke wasn't a suspect in his sister's death. But later events suggested that statement wasn't as definitive as it seemed. In 2000 Hunter refused a request by Ramsey attorney Wood to sign a statement declaring under oath that "all questions related to" Burke's "possible involvement" in the death of his sister "were resolved to the satisfaction of investigators." He also refused to declare that Burke "has never been viewed by investigators as a suspect." Nor would he say that Burke "has not been and is not a suspect."

Hunter did, however, agree to language in which he declared that "no evidence has ever been developed ... to justify elevating Burke Ramsey's status from witness to suspect," and there is nothing in the transcripts of the interviews of the Ramseys to suggest any such evidence was developed.

So whatever Hunter's suspicions about Burke, he wasn't able to substantiate them.

http://www.crimemagazine.com/solving-jonbenet-case-0

Alex Hunter is a dick, I'm sorry. He tells his own men to go easy on the Ramseys, then says nothing the parents said points to Burke? Maybe because they were lying? And has anyone ever actually interrogated Burke? Because his folks said he was asleep, and he wasn't. He admits to using the flashlight that the parents refuse to admit was theirs, and his fingerprints are on the pineapple bowl. Sounds like more than enough to be suspicious about.


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