Why BOTH Garrote & Head Bash?

[Nom de plume]

Hi again everyone! Been gone from the forum for a while due to personal circumstances, but I'm back.

I would like to answer this question, since I think I have a new insight now which will allow me to answer a lot of questions about it. First, everyone has been fed a lot of false information about what really happened but what is not a lie is that both a garrote and a head bash happened to JBR. Answering this question gets to the heart of the motives for the murder. I don't think that JBR was intended to die that night. I think something went horribly wrong and she was murdered but I don't believe her parents intended that to happen. In this one sense I believe they are victims because their six year old daughter was taken from them that day, but they are the ones who put her in that situation in the first place. Both the garrote and the hammer were in use at the party. There was a party on Christmas day at some undisclosed location. It was not at the White's house but somewhere else. The hammer was used to punish children who did not obey during the party. They would be hit on the head with the hammer to force them to obey. Wounds on the head could be hidden with the hair, so it is a perfectly place to hit a child and conceal the bruise or wound. The garrote was used as an autoerotic asphyxiation tool on JBR to promote sexual response during this party. During this party, something happened that was not forseen. Maybe JBR reacted very negatively to some sex act she was being subjected to by the adults there. Whatever the reason, someone got angry and accidently hit JBR on the head so hard they cracked her skull open from almost front to back. And then, seeing she was mortally injured and dying, someone at the party (not the parents) quickly finished her off with the garrote by wrapping it very tightly around her neck, strangling her to death. A horrible brutal murder of a six year old girl. That is why both. The head bash came first and the strangulation second.

Someone may ask, why would they kill her? The answer to that question is obvious. They killed her to conceal who really murdered her and why. She could never be allowed to go to a hospital and be questioned by police about who had done this. The police couldn't even know about it. This is where the entire the "intruder theory" came into play.

Anyhoo I agree with your basic theory, and have thought this was the case from the first moment I heard about JB's death all those years ago. There are a couple of things I have to question though.

First of all, why do you discount her parent(s) as the one(s) that actually killed her? Unless you have some solid proof that the rest of us do not, and you may, I can never count them out. Second, there is some pretty strong evidence that there was a significant gap in time between the head bash and the strangulation.

I do believe there was a "party", and that it certainly wasn't the first one she'd been to. I also believe there were some high powered people involved in those parties. I believe it's highly possible both the weapon used for the head bash, and "a" garrote type of device were also in use. What I don't believe is that she was actually killed at the party and then transported home. The evidence (livor mortis) contradicts this possibility. Now I do believe that she was possibly partially strangled at the party, for the reason you stated (and most likely the same source), and probably bashed in the head there too. I tend to think more along the lines of her being knocked out by the head blow, then transported home, with her parents thinking (hoping) she would regain consciousness. I suspect that a certain Dr. was called over to examine her and informed her parents that she could not possibly recover. And as you said, taking her to the hospital was NOT an option. I firmly believe she was killed at home, in the basement, outside of the WC door, by one or both parents. PR wrote the note, with some general input by JR. JR did the basement staging during that time, and all of their "friends" were called over to help shield, cover, and divert attention.

IMO, all involved know exactly what happened to poor JB, from party participants, to some Dr., a couple of LE (but definitely not all!), and certainly some in the DA's office. They had to cover it up because they were all involved in the Fat Cat party scene! This was no doubt the biggest cover up, scam, in all of Colorado history! CYA all the way!!

All JMO, etc...

 

[elannia]

Hi again everyone! Been gone from the forum for a while due to personal circumstances, but I'm back.



Anyhoo I agree with your basic theory, and have thought this was the case from the first moment I heard about JB's death all those years ago. There are a couple of things I have to question though.

First of all, why do you discount her parent(s) as the one(s) that actually killed her? Unless you have some solid proof that the rest of us do not, and you may, I can never count them out. Second, there is some pretty strong evidence that there was a significant gap in time between the head bash and the strangulation.

I do believe there was a "party", and that it certainly wasn't the first one she'd been to. I also believe there were some high powered people involved in those parties. I believe it's highly possible both the weapon used for the head bash, and "a" garrote type of device were also in use. What I don't believe is that she was actually killed at the party and then transported home. The evidence (livor mortis) contradicts this possibility. Now I do believe that she was possibly partially strangled at the party, for the reason you stated (and most likely the same source), and probably bashed in the head there too. I tend to think more along the lines of her being knocked out by the head blow, then transported home, with her parents thinking (hoping) she would regain consciousness. I suspect that a certain Dr. was called over to examine her and informed her parents that she could not possibly recover. And as you said, taking her to the hospital was NOT an option. I firmly believe she was killed at home, in the basement, outside of the WC door, by one or both parents. PR wrote the note, with some general input by JR. JR did the basement staging during that time, and all of their "friends" were called over to help shield, cover, and divert attention.

IMO, all involved know exactly what happened to poor JB, from party participants, to some Dr., a couple of LE (but definitely not all!), and certainly some in the DA's office. They had to cover it up because they were all involved in the Fat Cat party scene! This was no doubt the biggest cover up, scam, in all of Colorado history! CYA all the way!!

All JMO, etc...

So who do you think the LEO were who knew? Anyone who has been mentioned? And I think that alot of people knew too(comment from john about alot of people there at 3 in the morning)

 

[midwest mama]

Hey Nom.....:thumb:

 

[Nom de plume]

Hey Nom.....:thumb:

Hey Mama! It was time.

 

[Nom de plume]

So who do you think the LEO were who knew? Anyone who has been mentioned? And I think that alot of people knew too(comment from john about alot of people there at 3 in the morning)

Elannia, I wouldn't accuse anyone by name, but I have my suspicions. Look back thru the case at the one(s) in LE that seemed more like they were R defense attys rather than acting as LE should. I will say without hesitation that I do not believe ST or LA were among the questionable ones. LA may have learned parts of the story later from PR, but I'm not sure she was ever told the actual, whole truth.

 

[midwest mama]

Elannia, I wouldn't accuse anyone by name, but I have my suspicions. Look back thru the case at the one(s) in LE that seemed more like they were R defense attys rather than acting as LE should. I will say without hesitation that I do not believe ST or LA were among the questionable ones. LA may have learned parts of the story later from PR, but I'm not sure she was ever told the actual, whole

The DA's office had a defector early on who went over to to the RST.

 

[elannia]

I wasnt sure which thread to post this on so I will just put it here. I was reading on ACR and kristine griffin had before said she has nightmares about JB and and she tells her "I need to tell you what happened, I dont know who he is but I saw his shoes. Now this was her statement about JB but makes you wonder about it.

 

[tweezybird]

This is a new name for me, who is Kristine Griffin?

 

[elannia]

This is a new name for me, who is Kristine Griffin?

Pam Griffin's daughter. Pam made her dresses, etc for the pageants. Kristine was older but her and JB were really close. JB lived one of kristines crowns she won from a pageant and I believe she was buried with it

 

[DeDee]

In remembering JR oldest daughter, ER, having vivid recollections from her childhood before she died in an unusual car crash, cobbled with the parties the Rs were involved in with friends, neighbors and high placed connections, I recalled this conversation that follows in quotes.
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/...et-ramsey-ramsey-investigation-boulder-police

In depositions, there was that ambiguous area about taking photos of JBR "doing something cutesy" that may have been offered into evidence.
"We didn’t mean for this to happen" PR
http://kgov.com/jonbenet-ramsey-murder-clue-that-breaks-the-case
"... didn't mean to kill her." JR
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/cops-jonbenet-suspect-has-confessed/

I would like to answer this question, since I think I have a new insight now which will allow me to answer a lot of questions about it. First, everyone has been fed a lot of false information about what really happened but what is not a lie is that both a garrote and a head bash happened to JBR. Answering this question gets to the heart of the motives for the murder. I don't think that JBR was intended to die that night. I think something went horribly wrong and she was murdered but I don't believe her parents intended that to happen. In this one sense I believe they are victims because their six year old daughter was taken from them that day, but they are the ones who put her in that situation in the first place. Both the garrote and the hammer were in use at the party. There was a party on Christmas day at some undisclosed location. It was not at the White's house but somewhere else. The hammer was used to punish children who did not obey during the party. They would be hit on the head with the hammer to force them to obey. Wounds on the head could be hidden with the hair, so it is a perfectly place to hit a child and conceal the bruise or wound. The garrote was used as an autoerotic asphyxiation tool on JBR to promote sexual response during this party. During this party, something happened that was not forseen. Maybe JBR reacted very negatively to some sex act she was being subjected to by the adults there. Whatever the reason, someone got angry and accidently hit JBR on the head so hard they cracked her skull open from almost front to back. And then, seeing she was mortally injured and dying, someone at the party (not the parents) quickly finished her off with the garrote by wrapping it very tightly around her neck, strangling her to death. A horrible brutal murder of a six year old girl. That is why both. The head bash came first and the strangulation second.

Someone may ask, why would they kill her? The answer to that question is obvious. They killed her to conceal who really murdered her and why. She could never be allowed to go to a hospital and be questioned by police about who had done this. The police couldn't even know about it. This is where the entire the "intruder theory" came into play.

I am not at liberty to disclose it but consider what I have wrote here as a theory, and see how well it fits what you know about the case. I connected a lot of dots from a lot of different sources and it fell into place for me. It explains everything, including photographer Randy Simons odd behavior and the odd things he said after the murder. People should go back and read what he said, because he was present at the time JBR was murdered. He witnessed it. That is why he was so freaked out and thought he was going to be killed, because he saw who really killed JBR. He was not just a fashion photographer, you know. He was involved in making child *advertiser censored* of her.

Making child *advertiser censored* is quite an albatross to have over your head. I would think being able to bring JonBenet's murderer would be a great way for the photographer to get amnesty. Why didn't he?

Is fear of being murdered a good enough reason for you why he wouldn't say anything to the police? Because I guarantee you that if he had said that to the police nobody would have heard about it and RS would be dead, as he already feared he was going to be killed because of what he witnessed.

Anyhoo I agree with your basic theory, and have thought this was the case from the first moment I heard about JB's death all those years ago. There are a couple of things I have to question though.

First of all, why do you discount her parent(s) as the one(s) that actually killed her? Unless you have some solid proof that the rest of us do not, and you may, I can never count them out. Second, there is some pretty strong evidence that there was a significant gap in time between the head bash and the strangulation.

I do believe there was a "party", and that it certainly wasn't the first one she'd been to. I also believe there were some high powered people involved in those parties. I believe it's highly possible both the weapon used for the head bash, and "a" garrote type of device were also in use. What I don't believe is that she was actually killed at the party and then transported home. The evidence (livor mortis) contradicts this possibility. Now I do believe that she was possibly partially strangled at the party, for the reason you stated (and most likely the same source), and probably bashed in the head there too. I tend to think more along the lines of her being knocked out by the head blow, then transported home, with her parents thinking (hoping) she would regain consciousness. I suspect that a certain Dr. was called over to examine her and informed her parents that she could not possibly recover. And as you said, taking her to the hospital was NOT an option. I firmly believe she was killed at home, in the basement, outside of the WC door, by one or both parents. PR wrote the note, with some general input by JR. JR did the basement staging during that time, and all of their "friends" were called over to help shield, cover, and divert attention.

IMO, all involved know exactly what happened to poor JB, from party participants, to some Dr., a couple of LE (but definitely not all!), and certainly some in the DA's office. They had to cover it up because they were all involved in the Fat Cat party scene! This was no doubt the biggest cover up, scam, in all of Colorado history! CYA all the way!!

All JMO, etc...

 

[UKGuy]

Old News but means NetFlix rate the JonBenet case as Box Office Material

JonBenét Ramsey documentary acquired by Netflix

http://ew.com/movies/2017/01/04/netflix-jonbenet-ramsey-documentary-casting-jonbenet/

.

 

[DeDee]

Old News but means NetFlix rate the JonBenet case as Box Office Material

JonBenét Ramsey documentary acquired by Netflix

http://ew.com/movies/2017/01/04/netflix-jonbenet-ramsey-documentary-casting-jonbenet/

.

Fine. The post is from January but someone found it somehow pertinent to the titled thread:

"Why both garotte and head bash?"

The previous post was meant to spur a discussion of why both fatal injuries were inflicted upon JonBenet. More importantly, who is culpable for those injuries?

 

[UKGuy]

Fine. The post is from January but someone found it somehow pertinent to the titled thread:

"Why both garotte and head bash?"

The previous post was meant to spur a discussion of why both fatal injuries were inflicted upon JonBenet. More importantly, who is culpable for those injuries?

DeDee,
Uh , uh , well the head injury looks as if it arrived first followed by the ligature asphyxiation which looks like staging, and the culprit is either PR, JR or BR?

Given how JonBenet was dressed my money is on BR, how can anyone see Patsy dressing JonBenet in Burke's long jonhs?

 

[DeDee]

Quick. Where is the brick wall? I need to bang my head.

Will someone kindly share a carafe of top shelf Pinot Grigio? Much obliged.

 

[singularity]

In remembering JR oldest daughter, ER, having vivid recollections from her childhood before she died in an unusual car crash

I don't think that car crash is all that unusual but I do believe the Elizabeth angle should've been pushed further. Its not related to the murder but it can open a window into the family that they don't want you to see....and this could lead you down other roads and what was going on at the time.

In one of John's CNN interviews, he starts talking about her and mentions she had a special friend. I thought it was revealing at the time. He couldn't even bring himself to say his oldest daughter had a boyfriend. I guess if he's old fashioned and acting like its the 50s he might have difficulty coming to terms with his college age daughter being sexually active....but John doesn't come across as an old fashioned kinda guy.

It is interesting that they wanted the autopsy/police reports though. It happened four years before Jonbenet's murder. What were they expecting to find?

In depositions, there was that ambiguous area about taking photos of JBR "doing something cutesy" that may have been offered into evidence.

Like I mentioned in that other thread, the issue of photographs is very important in this case. Its unfortunate that its mainly glossed over now.

I'm not just talking about the photographs found in the hellhole. Her portfolio has some oddities.

This set....

That isn't a swing. It's a prop. Is it meant to convey the image of an innocent child swinging in their backyard or at a park? If so, why isn't she swinging?

Her last set...

We've got the western theme which is something someone in the family has an interest in and of course, there's that rope. Coincidence? Maybe....but its odd that in two of her last professional sets she is either holding or sitting on rope. The rope serves no purpose in the set above.

So why are these photographs being taken? She's not really a child model and even if she's going in that direction, are those sets(specifically the last one) really needed in your portfolio?

Simons is very suspicious for obvious reasons and he needed the spotlight to shine on him and get this guy to crack. His behavior after her murder isn't kosher in the least and even if he has nothing to do with murder, he was in her sphere in the months leading up to her murder and he had to know something.

I have a handful of questions for him....

Why are these photographs being taken?

Who is requesting them?

Who is in the room while these photographs are being taken?

How is she reacting?

How many photographs did you take in their home?



I'm not a big fan of Singular but do agree with him on at least one thing....

The secrets reside in the photographs.

"We didn’t mean for this to happen" PR

"... didn't mean to kill her." JR

Two incriminating statements which change in tone depending on which theory is being pushed. It used to be used as proof that John did it, then Patsy, then a 'friendly' intruder, and now Burke.

One problem.....their words never change. Only the theories change.

I just consider them slip ups in general that came out while they were still in shock and it was an early indication of RDI in general.....not that a specific person killed her.

 

[UKGuy]

I don't think that car crash is all that unusual but I do believe the Elizabeth angle should've been pushed further. Its not related to the murder but it can open a window into the family that they don't want you to see....and this could lead you down other roads and what was going on at the time.

In one of John's CNN interviews, he starts talking about her and mentions she had a special friend. I thought it was revealing at the time. He couldn't even bring himself to say his oldest daughter had a boyfriend. I guess if he's old fashioned and acting like its the 50s he might have difficulty coming to terms with his college age daughter being sexually active....but John doesn't come across as an old fashioned kinda guy.

It is interesting that they wanted the autopsy/police reports though. It happened four years before Jonbenet's murder. What were they expecting to find?

Like I mentioned in that other thread, the issue of photographs is very important in this case. Its unfortunate that its mainly glossed over now.

I'm not just talking about the photographs found in the hellhole. Her portfolio has some oddities.

This set....

That isn't a swing. It's a prop. Is it meant to convey the image of an innocent child swinging in their backyard or at a park? If so, why isn't she swinging?

Her last set...

We've got the western theme which is something someone in the family has an interest in and of course, there's that rope. Coincidence? Maybe....but its odd that in two of her last professional sets she is either holding or sitting on rope. The rope serves no purpose in the set above.

So why are these photographs being taken? She's not really a child model and even if she's going in that direction, are those sets(specifically the last one) really needed in your portfolio?

Simons is very suspicious for obvious reasons and he needed the spotlight to shine on him and get this guy to crack. His behavior after her murder isn't kosher in the least and even if he has nothing to do with murder, he was in her sphere in the months leading up to her murder and he had to know something.

I have a handful of questions for him....

Why are these photographs being taken?

Who is requesting them?

Who is in the room while these photographs are being taken?

How is she reacting?

How many photographs did you take in their home?



I'm not a big fan of Singular but do agree with him on at least one thing....

The secrets reside in the photographs.




Two incriminating statements which change in tone depending on which theory is being pushed. It used to be used as proof that John did it, then Patsy, then a 'friendly' intruder, and now Burke.

One problem.....their words never change. Only the theories change.

I just consider them slip ups in general that came out while they were still in shock and it was an early indication of RDI in general.....not that a specific person killed her.

singularity
Patsy, slip ups thats JR territory, you need to read the Charlevoix, Michigan search warrant where Patsy is alleged to have told Det. Arndt Why didnt I hear my baby? on being asked did you not hear anything?

Its the one with redactions, so stuff is being witheld.



Patsy obviously NEVER took those photographs, its not a xerox thing, can you believe it lets hit the basement for a copy, nah !


.

 

[UKGuy]

Quick. Where is the brick wall? I need to bang my head.

Will someone kindly share a carafe of top shelf Pinot Grigio? Much obliged.

Thats why they are called opinions. One guy was under house arrest for life bcause he opined the planet earth rotated around another star called the sun !


.

 

[archieil]

https://www.google.pl/search?tbm=bks&hl=pl&q="Why+didn't+I+hear+my+baby?"

 

[DeDee]

singularity,

My head bows politely to you. In your last post, it is as if the written words came from my own thoughts.

We can and must attempt to make the unsolved murder of JonBenet relevant again.

https://www.google.pl/search?tbm=bks&hl=pl&q="Why+didn't+I+hear+my+baby?"

archieil,

The link provided is appreciated. ATT, I am unable to read and discuss due to obligations elsewhere.


Many members have grown wearisome of the same opinions continuously and consistently submitted, with the same content and dialogue, when just the linguistics are changed. There is no productive reasoning for that type of information. In fact, it stifles, suppresses and interrupts the meaningful flow of a discussion.

This message is in no way telling others how or what they should post or why one member, or another, may always insist upon having the last word. Using common courtesy, cobbled with good common sense, makes our sleuthing easier and certainly more pleasant. We should, perhaps, ask ourselves: cui bono.

cui bono is a legal term or a term used during investigations that simply means: to whose benefit; to whose profit.

Let us maintain integrity while seeking cui bono.