Why did JA drag TA back to the shower?

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I recall seeing Heather taking everything out of bags of both the washer and dryer, the duvet cover was in the dryer and I have a screen shot of it (trial day 2?) but I don't recall seeing the fitted sheet, wonder if that's what she took her clothes, shoes and weapons out in? The shower mat is missing also, maybe she laid everything on that, wrapped it up in the fitted sheet and put it in the car, causing the stains on the seats.

Thanks for that useful information. I did find the court photo of the duvet cover and sheet(s). Does it look like two sheets here or...? What about the brown pillowcases?

And I didn't know there was a tub and a shower mat. Was it supposed to have looked like the other one?

arias25_zps8915dc45.jpg

arias71_zps889c06d5.jpg
 
Thanks for that useful information. I did find the court photo of the duvet cover and sheet(s). Does it look like two sheets here or...? What about the brown pillowcases?

And I didn't know there was a tub and a shower mat. Was it supposed to have looked like the other one?

arias25_zps8915dc45.jpg

arias71_zps889c06d5.jpg

JA testified that there was a mat outside the shower that because of her great big memory gap is missing and doesn't know what happened to it, you can see a mat in front of the shower in the Shaving photo. I wondered after that how she knew that mat wasn't there when he was found but never heard that brought up again.

There were a lot of pillow cases, huh? But I don't recall seeing the fitted sheet, I'll have to rewatch that part of the trial and see if I can see it.
 
Isn't this self explanatory? How are you gonna clean up when there's a body spurting, oozing blood everywhere?

I agree: it was mainly all about about clean-up and containment.

I wouldn't exclude, however, some perverse psychological factors thrown into the mix. Like other killers who had intimate relationships with their victims (e.g., husband and wife, parent and child), once the brutality and rage has subsided, a sense of ownership over the victim could inspire some "care-taking" of that person's body. Jodi won't discuss, acknowledge, or even admit that she remembers her own violence, and that fundamental denial of who she IS was, I would think, in operation before, during and after the murder. I think that cleaning him up would be a part of her "who? me?" construct.
 
Because her original plan involved him being in the shower the whole time so when things went haywire she was too stressed to improvise and was just determined to get him BACK in the shower where she thought he should have STAYED?

ITA...let's remember she is a control freak of sorts...things didn't go as planned but thought it would only be right (in her cray cray mind) that things end where she originally envisioned them to. :maddening:
 
Interesting question. I don't think she intended to cut him up. It seems like if that was the plan, the bathtub would have been a much more logical choice. I can't imagine how she could maneuver in that small of a space (the shower) and have enough room to do all that cutting.

I do agree that she put him in the shower to rinse him off. I don't think she stood over him to wash. It just does not look like there would have been enough room for that plus wouldn't that leave too much of a possibility that she would drop hair or something on his dead body while she was standing over him? I think she cleaned up in the tub hence her elaborate "romantic tub" story to cover up her DNA/hair possibly being found in the tub.

I haven't decided if she tried to clean up the scene yet. If she did, she didn't put too much time or effort into it.
 
NG did a jailhouse visit segment sometime ago and talked with an inmate and said JA told her she killed him in self defense and chopped up his body and spread it throughout the county. I could see her lying about the 'self-defense' portion of her story but I just don't understand why would she lie to another inmate about chopping up his body and dispersing it? Perhaps that was in her original plan so they would never find his body.

I wouldn't necessarily believe the inmate either. IMO jail is full of liars.


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Interesting question. I don't think she intended to cut him up. It seems like if that was the plan, the bathtub would have been a much more logical choice. I can't imagine how she could maneuver in that small of a space (the shower) and have enough room to do all that cutting.

I do agree that she put him in the shower to rinse him off. I don't think she stood over him to wash. It just does not look like there would have been enough room for that plus wouldn't that leave too much of a possibility that she would drop hair or something on his dead body while she was standing over him? I think she cleaned up in the tub hence her elaborate "romantic tub" story to cover up her DNA/hair possibly being found in the tub.

I haven't decided if she tried to clean up the scene yet. If she did, she didn't put too much time or effort into it.
She definitely started to clean the scene. She knew she had to leave no evidence and dispose of the body to be unfound in order to get away with this. She panicked when she had to kill him out of the shower and made such a mess. She still had in her mind the importance of her original plan, she was NOT in Arizona, NO body, NO crime. In her panic, she continued to pursue her plot. Reality finally set in that that plan was not going to work and she left him and the scene she could not clean.
 
The roommates were not out of town. One roommate's girlfriend was out of town on a cruise, and he (Zach, I believe) was house-sitting.

Enrique is the one who has the 6-630pm arrival story, but he also said Travis was on a conference call at that time, indicating that Enrique must have his days mixed up. I believe he's thinking of the day before the murder.

Enrique told Detective Flores (page 15 Investigation Report) that the last time that he remembered seeing Travis was on Wednesday June 4, 2008...He remembered talking to Travis that morning and he told him that he had a conference call scheduled that day...Travis told him that he didn't sleep very much. that he only got about 45 minutes of sleep that night...

Also Enrique told Detective Flores (page 15) that the last time that he remembered seeing Travis was on Wednesday evening when he got home from work..He remembered Travis on the on the phone, possibly on a conference call at 1800 to 18:30 hrs/6pm to 6:30 pm...

There was a conference call scheduled for Travis that evening on Wednesday, June 4, 2008...and he missed it...

Zach told Detective Flores (page 17 Investigation Report) that Wednesday, June 4, 2008 was his day off work...that he got up and returned his car rental...then returned back to Travis' house around 1500 hrs/3pm...then left Travis' house at 1600 hrs/4pm to go to his girlfriend, Mandy's house...Zach went on to tell Detective Flores that after he cleaned his girlfriend's Mandy's house he then returned to Travis' house at 2100 hrs/9pm
 
Enrique told Detective Flores (page 15 Investigation Report) that the last time that he remembered seeing Travis was on Wednesday June 4, 2008...He remembered talking to Travis that morning and he told him that he had a conference call scheduled that day...Travis told him that he didn't sleep very much. that he only got about 45 minutes of sleep that night...

Also Enrique told Detective Flores (page 15) that the last time that he remembered seeing Travis was on Wednesday evening when he got home from work..He remembered Travis on the on the phone, possibly on a conference call at 1800 to 18:30 hrs/6pm to 6:30 pm...

There was a conference call scheduled for Travis that evening on Wednesday, June 4, 2008...and he missed it...

Zach told Detective Flores (page 17 Investigation Report) that Wednesday, June 4, 2008 was his day off work...that he got up and returned his car rental...then returned back to Travis' house around 1500 hrs/3pm...then left Travis' house at 1600 hrs/4pm to go to his girlfriend, Mandy's house...Zach went on to tell Detective Flores that after he cleaned his girlfriend's Mandy's house he then returned to Travis' house at 2100 hrs/9pm

Thanks Findntruth, I've never felt very confident in either roommate's memory but if they are correct and the time stamps were also, she really did have to move pretty fast.
 
JA testified that there was a mat outside the shower that because of her great big memory gap is missing and doesn't know what happened to it, you can see a mat in front of the shower in the Shaving photo. I wondered after that how she knew that mat wasn't there when he was found but never heard that brought up again.

There were a lot of pillow cases, huh? But I don't recall seeing the fitted sheet, I'll have to rewatch that part of the trial and see if I can see it.

I don't recall her saying that about the bathmat. I recall her on the stand saying that there was only one bathmat and it was in front of the bathtub.
 
Enrique told Detective Flores (page 15 Investigation Report) that the last time that he remembered seeing Travis was on Wednesday June 4, 2008...He remembered talking to Travis that morning and he told him that he had a conference call scheduled that day...Travis told him that he didn't sleep very much. that he only got about 45 minutes of sleep that night...

Also Enrique told Detective Flores (page 15) that the last time that he remembered seeing Travis was on Wednesday evening when he got home from work..He remembered Travis on the on the phone, possibly on a conference call at 1800 to 18:30 hrs/6pm to 6:30 pm...

There was a conference call scheduled for Travis that evening on Wednesday, June 4, 2008...and he missed it...

Zach told Detective Flores (page 17 Investigation Report) that Wednesday, June 4, 2008 was his day off work...that he got up and returned his car rental...then returned back to Travis' house around 1500 hrs/3pm...then left Travis' house at 1600 hrs/4pm to go to his girlfriend, Mandy's house...Zach went on to tell Detective Flores that after he cleaned his girlfriend's Mandy's house he then returned to Travis' house at 2100 hrs/9pm

Again, Enrique got his days mixed up. There's no way he saw Travis at 630pm on a conference call on Wednesday June 4, 2008. Travis was bleeding on the floor at 5:30pm that same day.

If Enrique was wrong about seeing Travis on Wednesday at 630pm, he's possibly wrong about seeing Travis that morning, talking about Travis hadn't slept well. That could have all happened on Tuesday, the 3rd. We know it's possible that Travis didn't sleep well between Sunday night and monday morning because Jodi had him on the phone in the early hours of June second until at least 4am.

With that in mind, Enrique could have seen Travis on Monday for the last time. I don't know.
 
I rewatched day 2 with the forensic lady who went over everything in the washer and dryer. I have concluded from this that Travis was probably doing laundry. None of the items found in the dryer were stained, and most of the stuff seemed to have to do with the bed and his personal self.

In the dryer were clothes he could have been wearing before he and Jodi stripped for sex and all the bedding, which indicates to me that he wanted to clean all the sexual activity up and out of the bedroom. Maybe he was feeling some mormon guilt, since he was trying to get back right with his spirit. I don't know. There was also a white towel in there, which they probably used with the sex and to clean up fluids and KY. I think the white towel probably came out of the linen closet, versus being one of the towel hanging in the bathroom. Those hanging in the bathroom for use seem to have been peach or something.

I think Travis put in a second load of clothes for washing that never got to the dryer. Since there is such a small amount of staining on clothes in the washer, I'm thinking Jodi added the camera, the red shirt and the second towel, which might have already had bleach on them before she tossed them in.

Otherwise, I can't understand why some items, even a white tee shirt wasn't stained but the towel, one shirt, and a dot on a sock was. I'm wondering if she simply tossed those items in to an already washed load and hit the rinse cycle. It's so strange that there's no bleach on some of those clothes, but the towel, the shirt, and one sock obviously have been bleached.

Bleach doesn't affect all fabrics, I know. I have some doggie pads that I wash with bleach and they never fade or get spotted. They don't look as if Bleach ever touches them. So anyone know what would explain the weirdness going on in the washer? Maybe it's not bleach, but a cleanser with bleach in it?

Additionally, they have crime scene pictures of the vanity in the bathroom open and closed. So I'm not sure if it was open when they found it or if they opened it just to view the contents below the sink. Same for the linen closet.
 
Hi. I'm new here. This is my first post.

Soo , I was thinking. Did anyone see the water stains on the boxes in Travis' closet? The stains looked as if the entire floor area had been flooded.

Look closely at the shower photos. In one photo, I kind of see bruising & redness on his hands. By the way he's standing (with his fists to his chest) the shower may have been cold. His lip looks swollen. Someone pointed out what looks like a wound on his neck, under his ear, at his hairline. (Same wound that you see it in the autopsy) Some even say that you can see stab wounds on his back if you look carefully. I dont think they were super deep wounds. His arms seem to be bound in some photos & quite frankly, he looks scared as hell!

Is it possible that some of the the stabbing was done pre shower? The last photo of him sitting in the shower is the same way he was facing when they found him right? It's how he could have been sitting before falling over dead. If his throat was slit in the shower, his body could have blocked the water from draining, causing it to flood, carrying blood & blood clots throughout the bathroom, closet & hallway. Hence the water stains on the box!
 
I don't recall her saying that about the bathmat. I recall her on the stand saying that there was only one bathmat and it was in front of the bathtub.

The rectangular shower mat seen in here:

shaving_zps4a8b7290.jpg


I don't recall who was questioning her but she mentioned that she understood that mat hadn't been found and she had no memory of taking it with the weapons, I'll link the vid if I come across it before JM finishes rebuttal.
 
I rewatched day 2 with the forensic lady who went over everything in the washer and dryer. I have concluded from this that Travis was probably doing laundry. None of the items found in the dryer were stained, and most of the stuff seemed to have to do with the bed and his personal self.

In the dryer were clothes he could have been wearing before he and Jodi stripped for sex and all the bedding, which indicates to me that he wanted to clean all the sexual activity up and out of the bedroom. Maybe he was feeling some mormon guilt, since he was trying to get back right with his spirit. I don't know. There was also a white towel in there, which they probably used with the sex and to clean up fluids and KY. I think the white towel probably came out of the linen closet, versus being one of the towel hanging in the bathroom. Those hanging in the bathroom for use seem to have been peach or something.

I think Travis put in a second load of clothes for washing that never got to the dryer. Since there is such a small amount of staining on clothes in the washer, I'm thinking Jodi added the camera, the red shirt and the second towel, which might have already had bleach on them before she tossed them in.

Otherwise, I can't understand why some items, even a white tee shirt wasn't stained but the towel, one shirt, and a dot on a sock was. I'm wondering if she simply tossed those items in to an already washed load and hit the rinse cycle. It's so strange that there's no bleach on some of those clothes, but the towel, the shirt, and one sock obviously have been bleached.

Bleach doesn't affect all fabrics, I know. I have some doggie pads that I wash with bleach and they never fade or get spotted. They don't look as if Bleach ever touches them. So anyone know what would explain the weirdness going on in the washer? Maybe it's not bleach, but a cleanser with bleach in it?

Additionally, they have crime scene pictures of the vanity in the bathroom open and closed. So I'm not sure if it was open when they found it or if they opened it just to view the contents below the sink. Same for the linen closet.

I thought that t shirt was a tie-dyed shirt that already looked like that and not because of bleach (wasn't it brought up at some point?). I wondered the same thing about nothing else seeming to have bleach spots except the towel and even at one point wondered if she might have used the bleach upstairs but heard no testimony about it (but did recall JM redirecting Det. Flores on whether or not clothes coming from the wash smell like bleach).

I will agree the clothes in the dryer may have been done by Travis but only after we figure out what lies on the floor next to him that has buttons on it in the 'shoulder' pic. If it's the duvet cover, it couldn't have been washed while Travis was alive, if it's something else then the timeline isn't quite so tight for her to clean up and get out of there.

But, and it's a big but - why did Travis not answer or use his phone after 12:13 p.m. on the 4th? No matter what she says about the events of that day, her 'we went to sleep until around 1:00' is already a proven lie because Travis texted with Chris Hughes at 12:13, and he never touched his phone again.

I think things happened much earlier than we have been led by timestamps to believe.
 
:welcome: Daniele
 
Did they ever retrieve JA cameras? She stated she had 2 there at his house. She also stated that she may have used her camera for the sex video bc they couldn't figure out the timer on his camera. Thoughts?
 
I thought that t shirt was a tie-dyed shirt that already looked like that and not because of bleach (wasn't it brought up at some point?). I wondered the same thing about nothing else seeming to have bleach spots except the towel and even at one point wondered if she might have used the bleach upstairs but heard no testimony about it (but did recall JM redirecting Det. Flores on whether or not clothes coming from the wash smell like bleach).

I will agree the clothes in the dryer may have been done by Travis but only after we figure out what lies on the floor next to him that has buttons on it in the 'shoulder' pic. If it's the duvet cover, it couldn't have been washed while Travis was alive, if it's something else then the timeline isn't quite so tight for her to clean up and get out of there.

But, and it's a big but - why did Travis not answer or use his phone after 12:13 p.m. on the 4th? No matter what she says about the events of that day, her 'we went to sleep until around 1:00' is already a proven lie because Travis texted with Chris Hughes at 12:13, and he never touched his phone again.

I think things happened much earlier than we have been led by timestamps to believe.

The shirt doesn't look naturally tie-dyed to me. Wasn't there a black tee shirt in the washing machine? If so, that's possibly what was at head in that one picture.

I don't agree that she had limited time in the house after the killing. She might not have known when anyone would be home. There's no reason for Travis to have even known when the roommates would be home, especially if it were Zach's day off. Zach said he arrived home around 9pm, which at least means it had to be dark. Not saying she stayed there all that time, but that gave 4 hours. What's her call location around 10-11pm? That would tell us how long she stayed in the house.

For some reason, I just can't get with the duvet story. No one has remarked of any blood on anything in the washer or dryer, so we don't even know if any items ever had blood on them. I just found it interesting that there was a white towel in the dryer. There are rolls of white towels in the linen closet. The bleached "peach" towel is in the washer, but in some testimony by the evidence collector on day two, she pointed out a "peach" towel in the crime scene photos upstairs. She didn't say peach, but it looks that color to me.

JM had her read the brands of the two and they were the same Bianca brand. So, assuming that Travis would put out two matching towels in his bathroom, and he washed the bedding after sex, I'm thinking he put the white towel from sex play in the washer and dryer.

I think he also started to go about the business of cleaning the house either in an effort to get Jodi out of the house (politely) or he was just taking for granted that she was there. I have been in situations where I visited someone who was in the middle of cleaning and they have left me sitting there doing nothing while they ignore me and clean. It's annoying. My sister does it all the time.

So It's possible she got irritated at that and coaxed him into sex in the office, which led to him deciding sex twice and cleaning meant he needed a shower. Or she could have convinced him while he was cleaning that he stank and needed a shower. My ex was super sensitive if I'd tell him he smelled. Travis could have been.

The only thing that doesn't really jive is Zach's assertion that he was home for an hour between 3 and 4pm. Unless Jodi actually stayed in bed after the sex pics while Travis went to clean or maybe she was in his office with the door closed or in some way that Zach didn't see--if Zach preferred to use the front door versus the garage, but Zach didn't see Travis either. They both could actually have been in either place, the bedroom or office for that hour.

That hour just throws me off because I honestly can't see Jodi leaving and coming back, and if the time stamps are correct and they were having sex, I can't see that wrapping up and her being gone in an hour and 15 minutes before Zach's arrival at 3pm.
 
I still say the sex never happened. Maybe she kissed him, maybe she fondled him in an attempt to start sex to lure him back in - it worked before - but he wasn't having it. So she got really angry. He probably told her to leave- again. She ignored him and sat on the bed naked, trying to seduce him. He began cleaning. This is when she took the pics and he did the laundry, took out the cleaning supplies. He came upstairs to his room told her she had to leave again because he wanted to shower- she pretended to - came back and maybe began kissing him and fondling him- hence why his genitals look like they've been touched. But men aren't all animals, they dude's had enough so he tells her to go. Maybe he gave her money for gas or had given her a gas can since I'm sure she lied with car trouble to get in his house. She pretends to leave, he thinks he's safe and showers. She comes back as he thinks he's safe. Why does she drag him back into the shower? Control. She wants complete control over the situation. Nothing has gone as planned, but this will. She couldn't control him in life, but she will in death. Morbid, but its my opinion and fits with what I've seen.
 
The rectangular shower mat seen in here:

shaving_zps4a8b7290.jpg


I don't recall who was questioning her but she mentioned that she understood that mat hadn't been found and she had no memory of taking it with the weapons, I'll link the vid if I come across it before JM finishes rebuttal.

Can someone tell me if the shaving picture was taken by Jodi on June 4th before he got into the shower?
 

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