Why would the Ramseys need to stage?

[BBB167893]

An understanding of, and acknowledgement of, U.S. laws, reliable science, verifiable facts and forensic evidence does not equate to staunch support of the Ramseys.

News to me!

 

[CorallaroC]

While we’re kickin’ around the boots within our theories (pun intended ) I was wondering if anyone else sees a logo on the bottom of these shoes? Maybe it’s my eyes, but I do see a logo here.


View attachment 77101

Hi questfortrue, yes it looks like a logo and quacks like a logo IMO. Im curious now, what is this photo? one that we are already familiar with in this case?

 

[questfortrue]

Hi questfortrue, yes it looks like a logo and quacks like a logo IMO. Im curious now, what is this photo? one that we are already familiar with in this case?

Thanks for responding! This could just be me meandering through some evidence and have little relevance. So appreciate your question and patience.

Like Andrew, I’ve mainly considered the Hi-Tec boots of interest from the standpoint of the R’s denial. And even with denial, it’s possible they really did forget about the purchase of the boots. (Not what I believe. I think they were accustomed to denying any piece of forensic evidence. Doesn’t look like our flashlight, not our handwriting in the photo album, etc.) I digress. It’s just too bad we don’t have any photos from the W’s party.

Here’s a second photo with a logo from the shoe company SAS.

Here's another with the logo superimposed on the shoe. (Click on photo to enlarge.)


Here’s the discussion about HiTec and SAS shoe prints on ACR and a quote from DOI –
DOI Page 232
"A few days later, another telling story hit the newspapers, reporting that the police had been asking our friends if they owned shoes or boots with the brand SAS or Hi-Tec. We did not own either brand, and the police were trying to explain away the footprint they had found in the cellar near JonBenet's body. Obviously, the SAS or Hi-Tech footprint could be an important piece of evidence.”

Lastly, here's the owner of the shoe.

 

[UKGuy]

questfortrue,
Ever thought what shoes BR might have worn to the White's party? This is one for Columbo: Excuse me sir, can I ask one last question, are those shoes yours? They are, thank you, well I think I know who visited the wine-cellar on Christmas Day.

 

[otg]

Love him or hate him, much of the inside information we know about this investigation came from the leaks that Steve Thomas later admitted to having passed along to reporters and then later from his book. Since his departure from BPD, findings from investigators were held a little closer. They didn’t usually announce their findings to the public. Mike Kane has even said that there was still a lot the public didn't know, or that they thought they knew but were wrong about.

Something that since that time DID leak out from “an anonymous source” (which is what Thomas was before he left the BPD) went largely unnoticed or completely ignored by those who made it their lifelong ambition to defend the Ramseys. Even a few years ago, Lin Wood was still repeating the same lie that he knows is not true. Here it is from August 24, 2002:

Quoting an anonymous source, the newspaper (Rocky Mountain News) said investigators have known for some time that the footprint found near the body of the 6-year-old belonged to the girl's brother, Burke, and that a palm print was left by the girl's adult half sister, Melinda, and were unrelated to the unsolved murder.
​

http://articles.latimes.com/2002/aug/24/nation/na-briefs24.4

 

[UKGuy]

Love him or hate him, much of the inside information we know about this investigation came from the leaks that Steve Thomas later admitted to having passed along to reporters and then later from his book. Since his departure from BPD, findings from investigators were held a little closer. They didn’t usually announce their findings to the public. Mike Kane has even said that there was still a lot the public didn't know, or that they thought they knew but were wrong about.

Something that since that time DID leak out from “an anonymous source” (which is what Thomas was before he left the BPD) went largely unnoticed or completely ignored by those who made it their lifelong ambition to defend the Ramseys. Even a few years ago, Lin Wood was still repeating the same lie that he knows is not true. Here it is from August 24, 2002:

Quoting an anonymous source, the newspaper (Rocky Mountain News) said investigators have known for some time that the footprint found near the body of the 6-year-old belonged to the girl's brother, Burke, and that a palm print was left by the girl's adult half sister, Melinda, and were unrelated to the unsolved murder.
​

http://articles.latimes.com/2002/aug/24/nation/na-briefs24.4

otg,
mmm, so can we assume with confidence, say more than 60%, that footprint belongs to BR?

Pity we cannot date footprints, in circumstantial terms, its all adding up, and pointing in one direction?

Also might explain the presence of the barbie doll?

.

 

[webweaved]

otg,
mmm, so can we assume with confidence, say more than 60%, that footprint belongs to BR?

Pity we cannot date footprints, in circumstantial terms, its all adding up, and pointing in one direction?

Also might explain the presence of the barbie doll?

.

IMO...based on some of your theories it makes it look like BR had it out for JBR all along. There was the incident where he clubbed her (literally) in the head with a golf club. She bounced back after that. Who knows what other incidents we dont know about. Then she dies after being struck in the head yet again. Yeah, she was strangled but still...more head trauma? Hmm. She didn't bounce back the second time around. If the theories ever turn out to be true, that is one disturbed boy!! If the parents staged to cover this theory up, they knew how disturbed he was all along. They had too much pride (or too many secrets) to get him some real help. IMO.

 

[UKGuy]

IMO...based on some of your theories it makes it look like BR had it out for JBR all along. There was the incident where he clubbed her (literally) in the head with a golf club. She bounced back after that. Who knows what other incidents we dont know about. Then she dies after being struck in the head yet again. Yeah, she was strangled but still...more head trauma? Hmm. She didn't bounce back the second time around. If the theories ever turn out to be true, that is one disturbed boy!! If the parents staged to cover this theory up, they knew how disturbed he was all along. They had too much pride (or too many secrets) to get him some real help. IMO.

webweaved,

too many secrets is my best guess. Kolar offers big hints as to how disturbed BR was, when he recounts the books purchased.

.

 

[DeeDee249]

Love him or hate him, much of the inside information we know about this investigation came from the leaks that Steve Thomas later admitted to having passed along to reporters and then later from his book. Since his departure from BPD, findings from investigators were held a little closer. They didn’t usually announce their findings to the public. Mike Kane has even said that there was still a lot the public didn't know, or that they thought they knew but were wrong about.

Something that since that time DID leak out from “an anonymous source” (which is what Thomas was before he left the BPD) went largely unnoticed or completely ignored by those who made it their lifelong ambition to defend the Ramseys. Even a few years ago, Lin Wood was still repeating the same lie that he knows is not true. Here it is from August 24, 2002:

Quoting an anonymous source, the newspaper (Rocky Mountain News) said investigators have known for some time that the footprint found near the body of the 6-year-old belonged to the girl's brother, Burke, and that a palm print was left by the girl's adult half sister, Melinda, and were unrelated to the unsolved murder.
​

http://articles.latimes.com/2002/aug/24/nation/na-briefs24.4

I agree that Melinda's palm print was not connected to the crime. But I do not see how they can rule out BR's shoe print. As one of the three remaining family members alive that morning, nothing relating to ANY of them can be ruled out as having been connected to the crime. As we know, footprints cannot actually be "dated", BUT- we know for a FACT that Patsy kept her collection of artificial Christmas trees in that wine cellar, and also that the housekeeper LHP's husband was there also- helping to bring the trees up into the house. There is NO way a footprint left in soft, crumbly mold on a concrete floor would remain intact after activity like that in the room. If is really true that the footprint belonged to BR (who did admit to police that he owned shoes of that brand, though his parents denied it) then the print had to be left between the activity with the trees and the night of the murder. I also cannot believe whoever left that print was not in the winecellar that day/night.

 

[UKGuy]

I agree that Melinda's palm print was not connected to the crime. But I do not see how they can rule out BR's shoe print. As one of the three remaining family members alive that morning, nothing relating to ANY of them can be ruled out as having been connected to the crime. As we know, footprints cannot actually be "dated", BUT- we know for a FACT that Patsy kept her collection of artificial Christmas trees in that wine cellar, and also that the housekeeper LHP's husband was there also- helping to bring the trees up into the house. There is NO way a footprint left in soft, crumbly mold on a concrete floor would remain intact after activity like that in the room. If is really true that the footprint belonged to BR (who did admit to police that he owned shoes of that brand, though his parents denied it) then the print had to be left between the activity with the trees and the night of the murder. I also cannot believe whoever left that print was not in the winecellar that day/night.

DeeDee249,

If is really true that the footprint belonged to BR (who did admit to police that he owned shoes of that brand, though his parents denied it) then the print had to be left between the activity with the trees and the night of the murder. I also cannot believe whoever left that print was not in the winecellar that day/night.

BBM: Good points, also I'm willing to bet BR wore those shoes to the White's party and continued to wear them on returning home?

.

 

[andreww]

DeeDee249,

BBM: Good points, also I'm willing to bet BR wore those shoes to the White's party and continued to wear them on returning home?

.

And probably wore them when he left the house for the last time.


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[UKGuy]

And probably wore them when he left the house for the last time.


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andreww,
Quite likely, maybe this is why no pictures from the White's Christmas Party have ever seen the light of day, since I'm willing to bet JonBenet never wore ponytails to a dress up event, so seeing the pictures might not not offer any relevation, unless you could plainly see JonBenet wearing bunched up size-12's beneath her black velvet pants?

.

 

[andreww]

Photos from the Whites party have never been seen because Fleet is a firm believer in saving evidence for the courts. And who can blame him? How many witnesses had their credibility ruined by talking to the tabloids? Although I personally don't see what one thing has to do with the other. Regardless, whatever those pictures show is pure speculation and we'll likely never see them.


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[DeeDee249]

andreww,
Quite likely, maybe this is why no pictures from the White's Christmas Party have ever seen the light of day, since I'm willing to bet JonBenet never wore ponytails to a dress up event, so seeing the pictures might not not offer any relevation, unless you could plainly see JonBenet wearing bunched up size-12's beneath her black velvet pants?

.

I am sure the recision to keep the photos from the White's party from public release was up to the police. As for JB's ponytail hairdo- there is a photo of her from the Rs Christmas party on the 23rd where she is wearing the topknot ponytail with the rest of her hair down long, and a pretty velvet dress. She has also been seen to wear the topknot ponytail in some other photos. So it is not hard for me to see how she ended up with the double ponytails she was found in at her death. Patsy told police she usually pulled JB's long hair into a low ponytail at bedtime so her hair didn't tangle as she slept. I can easily see how Patsy did this as JB was readied for bed after returning home that night. She simply left the topknot ponytail in place and pulled the long hair into the low ponytail at the nape of her neck. This is further corroborated by the topknot ponytail being found to have a decorative fabric scrunci hair tie wound around over the elastic on the topknot. This decorative hair tie was black, white & red and those colors would have matched the black velvet pants and vest with white star shirt. Having raised a little girl myself who had very long hair, I always braided her hair for bed so it wouldn't tangle. Had I gotten home late with a tired little girl, I'd have still made the braid, but would have left whatever hairdo or hair accessory she had on that night in place instead of trying to brush out long hair on a sleepy child.
I have always thought that way too much is made of the 2 ponytails and I see NO relation between her hairstyle and her murder and abuse. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

 

[TeaTime]

I have never thought the flashlight was the weapon.

 

[andreww]

I have never thought the flashlight was the weapon.

Why would you say that? There is a strong belief that the flashlight was disassembled and wiped (not necessarily true IMO). If the Ramsey's had only used it as a flashlight, why clean it? It was theirs, their prints would be expected to be on it. If it were in fact the murder weapon, one would expect them to want to wipe any traces of JBRs hair, blood or DNA from it as that evidence along with a clear Ramsey print would be a damning clue.

So in my opinion there is good evidence that the flashlight MIGHT be the murder weapon, and nothing else in the house that really fits the profile. It's not something I can see the Ramsey's removing from the home either.


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[UKGuy]

I am sure the recision to keep the photos from the White's party from public release was up to the police. As for JB's ponytail hairdo- there is a photo of her from the Rs Christmas party on the 23rd where she is wearing the topknot ponytail with the rest of her hair down long, and a pretty velvet dress. She has also been seen to wear the topknot ponytail in some other photos. So it is not hard for me to see how she ended up with the double ponytails she was found in at her death. Patsy told police she usually pulled JB's long hair into a low ponytail at bedtime so her hair didn't tangle as she slept. I can easily see how Patsy did this as JB was readied for bed after returning home that night. She simply left the topknot ponytail in place and pulled the long hair into the low ponytail at the nape of her neck. This is further corroborated by the topknot ponytail being found to have a decorative fabric scrunci hair tie wound around over the elastic on the topknot. This decorative hair tie was black, white & red and those colors would have matched the black velvet pants and vest with white star shirt. Having raised a little girl myself who had very long hair, I always braided her hair for bed so it wouldn't tangle. Had I gotten home late with a tired little girl, I'd have still made the braid, but would have left whatever hairdo or hair accessory she had on that night in place instead of trying to brush out long hair on a sleepy child.
I have always thought that way too much is made of the 2 ponytails and I see NO relation between her hairstyle and her murder and abuse. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

DeeDee249,
Much of what you say sounds like plain common sense. Here is how I relate her hairstyle to her murder and abuse:

I'm assuming Patsy dressed JonBenet's hair on returning from the White's, resulting in the assymetric ponytails.

This offers a version of events that differs from that of the R's, but begs the question, was her hair dressed prior to or after the pineapple snack? If you are James Kolar her hair was dressed prior to the snack.

I used to think the ponytails might have been staged too, but accepting your opinion on the topknot ponytail I discount this aspect now.

I picture JonBenet, hair in ponytails, dressed in her pink barbie nightgown, ready for bed, and eager for a promised pineapple snack, before settling down for the night.

.

 

[InstantProof]

Why would you say that? There is a strong belief that the flashlight was disassembled and wiped (not necessarily true IMO). If the Ramsey's had only used it as a flashlight, why clean it? It was theirs, their prints would be expected to be on it. If it were in fact the murder weapon, one would expect them to want to wipe any traces of JBRs hair, blood or DNA from it as that evidence along with a clear Ramsey print would be a damning clue.

So in my opinion there is good evidence that the flashlight MIGHT be the murder weapon, and nothing else in the house that really fits the profile. It's not something I can see the Ramsey's removing from the home either.


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My thinking is that someone in the house used it to get around the house/basement without turning lights on. They may have been conflicted about it being evidence they could deny or not. Why clean it off but leave it out? I think a neighbor did report seeing "moving lights". If it were a weapon I think it would have been hidden, or left with JB to blame on intruder.

 

[UKGuy]

My thinking is that someone in the house used it to get around the house/basement without turning lights on. They may have been conflicted about it being evidence they could deny or not. Why clean it off but leave it out? I think a neighbor did report seeing "moving lights". If it were a weapon I think it would have been hidden, or left with JB to blame on intruder.

InstantProof,
Sure the flashlight might have been used to move around the house/basement. Also it may have needed its batteries replaced, hence the need for a cleanup?

JR might have used the flashlight prior to returning to BR and PR, where BR asks What did you find?

.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

InstantProof,
Sure the flashlight might have been used to move around the house/basement. Also it may have needed its batteries replaced, hence the need for a cleanup?

JR might have used the flashlight prior to returning to BR and PR, where BR asks What did you find?

.

There would be no need to worry on fingerprints on the flashlight or the batteries if it belonged to them. The reason it was clean was because someone did not want their presence known there. The R's were all supposed to be there so fingerprints are not an issue in the slightest.