WI - Jason Pero, 14, shot & killed by police, Ashland County, 8 Nov 2017

[EuTuCroquet?]

If it was a civil matter then the state LEO shouldn’t have been told to respond to the call. It would have been handled by tribal police. Based on the tribes website. But I think a 911 call that someone is walking down the street with a knife in hand is reason for state police to respond. They had no idea if he was a felon who wasn’t permitted to carry a knife, or if he was going to kill someone.

I just imagine a thread here about a teenager who kills a woman with a knife bc LE didn’t take a neighbors 911 call seriously enough to respond. People would be infuriated at LE and placing the blame on LE for not responding. Damned if you do, damned if you do, damned if you don’t.

I might be wrong, but we still don’t know why state police responded or whether tribal PD were simply unable to respond at the time.

Respectfully, this thread isn’t about hypothetical other situations, IMO. What didn’t happen here didn’t happen here. What did, did. So, no, I’m not going to “imagine a thread” in which a woman is killed by a child with a knife and what anyone else’s reaction might be to it. It’s not relevant, imo. The facts of this case, however, are.

MOO, of course.

 

[bears10]

I might be wrong, but we still don’t know why state police responded or whether tribal PD were simply unable to respond at the time.

Respectfully, this thread isn’t about hypothetical other situations, IMO. What didn’t happen here didn’t happen here. What did, did. So, no, I’m not going to “imagine a thread” in which a woman is killed by a child with a knife and what anyone else’s reaction might be to it. It’s not relevant, imo. The facts of this case, however, are.

MOO, of course.

They responded bc the state police take care of their criminal cases per the tribes website. Of course no one wants to imagine a thread that doesn’t fit their agenda. JMO


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[bluesneakers]

If it was a civil matter then the state LEO shouldn’t have been told to respond to the call. It would have been handled by tribal police. Based on the tribes website. But I think a 911 call that someone is walking down the street with a knife in hand is reason for state police to respond. They had no idea if he was a felon who wasn’t permitted to carry a knife, or if he was going to kill someone.

I just imagine a thread here about a teenager who kills a woman with a knife bc LE didn’t take a neighbors 911 call seriously enough to respond. People would be infuriated at LE and placing the blame on LE for not responding. Damned if you do, damned if you don’t.


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An imaginary thread doesn't apply to what happened here, and to say either it's a kid who is going to kill a woman or a kid who is shot by law enforcement is a fallacy anyway. Those are not our only two choices.

 

[bears10]

An imaginary thread doesn't apply to what happened here, and to say either it's a kid who is going to kill a woman or a kid who is shot by law enforcement is a fallacy anyway. Those are not our only two choices.

An imaginary thread doesn’t apply bc it didn’t get to that point. It could have for all the LEO knew.

Geez, I truly hope some people in this thread never need LE to save the day, bc it seems like no one has faith in them or believes them. LE is clearly the enemy and in the wrong, always, no matter what.


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[scmom]

Wisconsin is what is known as a Public Law 280 State which gives criminal jurisdiction on Indian Reservations (except the Menominee) to the state. Civil jurisdiction such as hunting/fishing/gathering laws is a function of the tribe. The tribal court system oversees civil cases while criminal cases are overseen by state courts and enforced by state/county police officers.

http://www.badriver-nsn.gov/history

 

[bears10]

Wisconsin is what is known as a Public Law 280 State which gives criminal jurisdiction on Indian Reservations (except the Menominee) to the state. Civil jurisdiction such as hunting/fishing/gathering laws is a function of the tribe. The tribal court system oversees civil cases while criminal cases are overseen by state courts and enforced by state/county police officers.

http://www.badriver-nsn.gov/history

So if state LE didn’t respond to the call, who would have? I’m really confused bc some posters seem to think tribal police would have taken care of it (way better than state LE for that matter), but everything I’ve read seems to lean towards state LE being the ones to respond to 911 calls and put their lives on the line. So I am just unsure about what the procedure is when someone on the reservation calls 911 to report a man walking down the street with a knife.


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[scmom]

Seems pretty simple to me. Emergency calls go to the county via 911. The caller determined it was an emergency requiring immediate assistance.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

They responded bc the state police take care of their criminal cases per the tribes website. Of course no one wants to imagine a thread that doesn’t fit their agenda. JMO

(I have no agenda whatsoever other than staying on-topic on this thread.)

So you think it was called in as a criminal case from the get-go?

 

[Karinna]

So if state LE didn’t respond to the call, who would have? I’m really confused bc some posters seem to think tribal police would have taken care of it (way better than state LE for that matter), but everything I’ve read seems to lean towards state LE being the ones to respond to 911 calls and put their lives on the line. So I am just unsure about what the procedure is when someone on the reservation calls 911 to report a man walking down the street with a knife.


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In Jason's case he supposedly called 911 on himself. Why hasn't that recording been released to the public yet? It has been the case in other police shootings that we are able to listen to the 911 calls. Maybe the media will be on it, and we will get to hear it soon?

 

[Karinna]

They responded bc the state police take care of their criminal cases per the tribes website. Of course no one wants to imagine a thread that doesn’t fit their agenda. JMO


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Sorry but i don't see an agenda here, just people trying to get to the truth of why this teenager was shot and killed. IMO

 

[scmom]

I wonder if we will ever see the contents of the search warrant that was executed on Pero's bedroom?

DCI has determined Jason Pero was the same person that called 911 reporting a man with a knife, giving his own physical description. Initial information indicates that Pero had been despondent over the few days leading up to the incident and evidence from a search warrant executed on Pero’s bedroom supports that information.

https://nativenewsonline.net/curren...ing-14-year-old-bad-river-teen-jason-pero-jr/

 

[Wyle_E_Coyote]

Wisconsin is what is known as a Public Law 280 State which gives criminal jurisdiction on Indian Reservations (except the Menominee) to the state. Civil jurisdiction such as hunting/fishing/gathering laws is a function of the tribe. The tribal court system oversees civil cases while criminal cases are overseen by state courts and enforced by state/county police officers.

http://www.badriver-nsn.gov/history

In the vast volumes of laws in our country there are two types. Criminal laws and Civil laws. Criminal laws are enforced by law enforcement and prosecutors. Criminal laws have punishments. Civil laws are enforced by citizens, buisnesses, and governments but not prosecutors or police.*

BBM

https://www.avvo.com/legal-guides/ugc/civil-law-vs-criminal-law-

Police Officers are responsible to deal with violations of CRIMINAL LAW, not civil law. Here is a basic description of the two:

1) Criminal law is a anything that is an act of*CRIMINALnature. Examples would be burglaries, thefts, sex offenses, DUI's, trespassing, disorderly conduct, harassment, etc..basically anything that is deemed to be a crime under the PA crimes code.

2) Civil law is anything NOT a criminal act. This would be landlord/tenant evictions/disputes, child custody issues, disputes over ownership of property, Person A owes money to person B and they have not paid them back, any breach of contracts, etc...

http://www.wbrandywine.org/index.as...E7DF-536C-4B4D-BD41-4380631F181A&Type=B_BASIC


From scmom's link, it sounds like the tribe has only a civil court, not a police function, and anything of a criminal (or possibly criminal) nature is solely under the jurisdiction of state law enforcement.

But, ianal and all that.

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[Karinna]

In the vast volumes of laws in our country there are two types. Criminal laws and Civil laws. Criminal laws are enforced by law enforcement and prosecutors. Criminal laws have punishments. Civil laws are enforced by citizens, buisnesses, and governments but not prosecutors or police.*

BBM

https://www.avvo.com/legal-guides/ugc/civil-law-vs-criminal-law-

Police Officers are responsible to deal with violations of CRIMINAL LAW, not civil law. Here is a basic description of the two:

1) Criminal law is a anything that is an act of*CRIMINALnature. Examples would be burglaries, thefts, sex offenses, DUI's, trespassing, disorderly conduct, harassment, etc..basically anything that is deemed to be a crime under the PA crimes code.

2) Civil law is anything NOT a criminal act. This would be landlord/tenant evictions/disputes, child custody issues, disputes over ownership of property, Person A owes money to person B and they have not paid them back, any breach of contracts, etc...

http://www.wbrandywine.org/index.as...E7DF-536C-4B4D-BD41-4380631F181A&Type=B_BASIC


From scmom's link, it sounds like the tribe has only a civil court, not a police function, and anything of a criminal (or possibly criminal) nature is solely under the jurisdiction of state law enforcement.

But, ianal and all that.

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Yes that sounds about right. But the carrying and transportation of firearms/weapons on an Indian reservation is also a civil matter because it comes under the 2nd. amendment constitutional rights.
Jason wasn't in the commission of a crime when he was walking with a knife, and from what i have read it is not unusual for teens to have knives for carving on the rez., so there is that. Nobody knows what Jason was doing or where he was going when he was walking with a knife?
He certainly wasn't threatening anyone with it at that time. And as his family and friends have stated he wasn't a violent kid.
And lunging at an LEO could also mean taking a step forward, because we all know how some of these reports are written to favor what LE excuse as a lawful killing, IMO.

 

[LolaMoon08]

Actually, a local case here where a white teen was killed by a police officer (the officer was high on cocaine) was taken up by our Black Community. Not the White Community. You will be very surprised at how much the Black Communities have stepped up when it comes to unjustifiable shootings of White Men/Women. People don't even understand what BLM is about. It started with Trayvon Martin who was not even murdered by a cop and of course it has expanded to include the unjustifiable shootings of Black Men and Women. Black Lives Matter is not to say that all lives don't matter... they just want their lives to matter equally. I am a White Woman and I can say I 100% support their feelings because I see it every day.

While you have cops kill White Men and White Women all the time, I can point to thousands of cases where a White Man/Woman should have been shot and killed for their aggressive behavior towards Law Enforcement and they will be arrested without as much as a broken finger nail. Put a Black Man or Woman in that same scenario... They will not be given the same treatment. That is the problem.

I wish more White people would get involved when it came to unjustifiable shootings by officers, but if they won't then I know our Black communities will. Is it their job? No, but they do because they actually care.

 

[human]

Thanks for your post

Also, its not legal for some people to carry knives in WI. If they are not permitted to carry a firearm (likely bc of a felony conviction) then they cannot have a knife. How would LE know if the person was a convicted felon without being able to talk to him? Which the LEO apparently wasn’t able to talk to him since he wouldn’t drop the knife and then lunged at the officer.


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Where do you get that info? What if he wants to eat a steak?

 

[human]

I don't think the doctor concept transfers in these cases.

The hotel is private property. Therefore, the owner of the property or somebody acting in his behalf (law enforcement) can ask about any guns and ammunition. If the owner does not like the answers the owner gives, he can be told to leave the property.

The fact that the man did nothing illegal will prevent his arrest. He can, however, be "un-guested" and booted if he makes the property owner uncomfortable by possessing weapons. My guess is that this would have happened in Las Vegas had the hotel been aware of the shooter's weapons stash.

Likewise, police can ask anybody about carried weapons at any time. They may not be able to arrest him for simple possession of a weapon, but having a weapon can be reason for questioning.

No search warrant needed?

 

[human]

Here are WI knife laws. I see nothing that says what he was doing was illegal .

https://www.grievelaw.com/MilwaukeeCriminalDefenseAttorneyBlog/ConcealedCarryKnife

 

[bears10]

Here are WI knife laws. I see nothing that says what he was doing was illegal .

https://www.grievelaw.com/MilwaukeeCriminalDefenseAttorneyBlog/ConcealedCarryKnife

How did the officer know he wasn’t s convicted felon, in which case it would be illegal. Also - it is illegal to lunge at a police officer with a knife. I can’t deal with this thread anymore.


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[Elley Mae]

Cheryl Pero said she was working at a day care when she saw squad cars “flying by like crazy, and I just got a really sick feeling in my stomach knowing they were (heading in the direction of her house).”

http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/lo...cle_e5587702-d3c7-5fe4-84dd-9e28709eaa5d.html

 

[Elley Mae]

The Ashland County District Attorney’s office will receive the written reports following the conclusion of the investigation. State Investigators plans to turn over all investigative reports to the prosecutor within 30 days of the incident.

The Wisconsin DOJ-led investigation of this incident has been a collaborative effort between DCI, the Wisconsin State Patrol, and the Wisconsin State Crime Laboratory.

The DOJ says the Ashland County Sheriff’s Office has been fully cooperating with DCI during this investigation.

http://www.wkow.com/story/36823458/...t-deputy-with-butcher-knife-before-being-shot