AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #23

[Gardener1850]

GaL appointed/entered today: Wisconsin Circuit Court Access

Good sleuthing. That shows her aunt is Special Administrator. I imagine if there is any money for Jayme, an aunt will be in change of managing it for her and also taking care of Jayme if she returns alive. JMO. I hope the aunt she is closest to gets an opportunity to raise Jayme.

 

[SharonNeedles]

One thing from the most recent interviews that really stood out to me was James' family members saying that they wondered if James had gotten into trouble with money. Most people who get into trouble with money don't get murdered in their homes and their daughters abducted...they get collection notices.

Unless they borrow money from The Sopranos or something.

Keep in mind that both the family and LE read just about all social media and forum posts including Websleuths. As many times as money has been mentioned as a motive you know they’ve read that and considered it. Personally I think murder as a way to resolve a debt makes zero sense, plus there’s no indication of any problematic debt to fuel those suspicions. But I guess until there’s new info to bring things into focus people are going to speculate.

 

[KLM6]

It seems the only real reason why Fitzgerald thinks Jayme is still alive is because he wants to believe it's true and not because he has any evidence of it.

He also said earlier that he knows Jayme is not a runaway. I agree.

Imo

He says its his gut feeling, and hope. He said in the Dryden interview its not evidenced based. I share his hope.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

You know, I don't have a problem in the world visualizing how this crime went down. I can see it all pretty clearly in my mind...loud noise at the door, James goes to check it out, Denise is close behind. James flips on the porch light and then all hell breaks loose. Door kicked in, James shot, Denise runs , gets shot, possibly barricades herself in the bathroom, with Jayme if there was time to grab Jayme, or alone if there wasn't time. Suspects break through the bathroom door, sees that Denise has called 911, they grab Jayme and bolt.

A lot of speculation in there, I know, but it all makes perfect sense to me. What DOESN'T make a damned bit of sense to me is why this happened and who could have done it. THAT I simply can not wrap my mind around. Unless it was a random home invasion...but if that were the case, could the suspects not get into a locked gun safe, or could they not find cash , or did they actually find something of value to them in the home (prescription drugs, unaccounted for money , etc.) that LE isn't aware would even be there ? THIS is where I seem to lose my way in this case. The who and the why.

 

[Gardener1850]

This is something Ive worried about. If she is his beneficiary, and theres money to be distributed. Im sure she has to be of age to receive it, but still. Its been on my mind as a purpose for taking her.

How would someone who took Jayme be able to get the money?
I doubt that could be a motive. JMO.

 

[1987]

IF her parents being gone makes her a ward of the state then I think that could be why killer killed parents. it concerns me IF no one has petitioned the court to be her guardian but yet there is a petition for the estate? IF she is thought to still be alive WHY would no one be asking for guardianship of her, her person, to be her representative for herself, not money, for the child.

 

[human]

I am trying to see if Jennie-o is union. But I can find no info except the plant in Mn is not. It sounds like the work conditions are not the best.

The amount of hours he works would give him a good amount of money. 11/2 pay after forty hours, double time after sixty and double time on Sundays and holidays if it was a union shop. I wonder what the compensation was for working all of those extra hours. Plus Denise worked, They should have a nice amount of money.

Did they ever go on trips?

Here is info about the Melrose MN plant which sounds horrifc. From 2015. This Holiday Season, Workers in Poultry Plants Need a Union - Talk Poverty

 

[Nerissa]

Well, if the family is speculating as to whether he got into money problems...
It doesn't mean that he was killed because of a debt rather..
That the money problems led him to be involved with things he otherwise might not
OR
That these things he was involved in may have caused money problems
Whatever he was involved in could be linked to their murders

Doesn't make sense to take Jayme though....not at all

Still scratch my head over Fuhrman saying that Denise was the target: did he speculate as to why Jayme was taken. You'd think if the perp had Denise as the target he'd bother to conceal his identity. Be pretty stupid not to, because then that does lead to all sorts of complications

Which is why I think this was emotional, not well thought out, and Jayme was the target - or was taken because she could recognize them (which means it was not well thought out)

I do agree that a woman would be less apt to kill a young girl and her dog. And if this was emotional....and not planned, and Jayme knew her: she'd just take Jayme
OKAY but still
Where the heck is Jayme? Where is this emotional woman keeping her for a month?
And no one in her own circle of family, friends, co-workers, etc. have a clue????

Sadly this is seeming like a thrill kill to someone who saw Denise/Jayme....maybe stalked them a bit....then went for it....

(still hoping for leads via her hospital stay....)

 

[human]

IF her parents being gone makes her a ward of the state then I think that could be why killer killed parents. it concerns me IF no one has petitioned the court to be her guardian but yet there is a petition for the estate? IF she is thought to still be alive WHY would no one be asking for guardianship of her, her person, to be her representative for herself, not money, for the child.

I imagine the mortgage, heat, car payments, credit card bills wait for no one

 

[Mountain_Kat]

IF her parents being gone makes her a ward of the state then I think that could be why killer killed parents. it concerns me IF no one has petitioned the court to be her guardian but yet there is a petition for the estate? IF she is thought to still be alive WHY would no one be asking for guardianship of her, her person, to be her representative for herself, not money, for the child.

But I don't get the slightest tick on my hinky meter where the family is concerned, do you ? Everything I have found, and everything I have not been able to find (if you follow my meaning) just screams to me that this is a normal, loving family, who genuinely adore Jayme and are terrified for her.

It's also possible that no one has petitioned for guardianship of Jayme because Denise and James had wills, and their wishes in the event of their deaths have already been made legally clear.

 

[MsBetsy]

IF her parents being gone makes her a ward of the state then I think that could be why killer killed parents. it concerns me IF no one has petitioned the court to be her guardian but yet there is a petition for the estate? IF she is thought to still be alive WHY would no one be asking for guardianship of her, her person, to be her representative for herself, not money, for the child.

Why wouldn't a relative get custody of her? I don't see any reason she would have to become a ward of the state. I would think one of her aunts would be her legal guardian. Imo

 

[Gardener1850]

You know, I don't have a problem in the world visualizing how this crime went down. I can see it all pretty clearly in my mind...loud noise at the door, James goes to check it out, Denise is close behind. James flips on the porch light and then all hell breaks loose. Door kicked in, James shot, Denise runs , gets shot, possibly barricades herself in the bathroom, with Jayme if there was time to grab Jayme, or alone if there wasn't time. Suspects break through the bathroom door, sees that Denise has called 911, they grab Jayme and bolt.

A lot of speculation in there, I know, but it all makes perfect sense to me. What DOESN'T make a damned bit of sense to me is why this happened and who could have done it. THAT I simply can not wrap my mind around. Unless it was a random home invasion...but if that were the case, could the suspects not get into a locked gun safe, or could they not find cash , or did they actually find something of value to them in the home (prescription drugs, unaccounted for money , etc.) that LE isn't aware would even be there ? THIS is where I seem to lose my way in this case. The who and the why.

Maybe it was a random robbery home invasion looking for cash or guns or prescription drugs, but they* realized they had no time when the 911 call happened. Maybe they took Jayme because she was the most value thing they saw there at the point they had to bolt? Unfortunately, if that is the case, there is not much hope Jayme is still alive. JMO.

*They could be either plural or singular in above scenario.

I keep going back and forth between this random home invasion scenario gone wrong and Jayme being the target all along... So frustrating and sad. Where is Jayme?

 

[KLM6]

How would someone who took Jayme be able to get the money?
I doubt that could be a motive. JMO.

If theres money to be had, its going to go somewhere. IF there was a debt and someone knew there was money. How much would it take for info to be released and/or to get her back? Ive worried about their life insurance from the beginning. I hate to call it a ransom because that dont seem to happen, but, idk, that "debt" thing has bothered me alot where this is concerned. Ill tell you right now Im worth a heck of alot more, financially, when I die than I am alive. Arent alot of people people?

 

[Ragnarok]

This is something Ive worried about. If she is his beneficiary, and theres money to be distributed. Im sure she has to be of age to receive it, but still. Its been on my mind as a purpose for taking her.

Parent bank accounts, company 401ks, IRAs, mortgage payments, property tax, utility bills, insurance proceeds, vehicles, house; all issues require short and long term action and resolution. Either for Jayme if found alive or others if she is found deceased or not found (years).

A will(s) would make the process easier and less costly to the estate.

 

[1987]

I imagine the mortgage, heat, car payments, credit card bills wait for no one

I imagine the bills wouldn't wait, why put that before the child? see I don't feel the child can wait either.

 

[KLM6]

Why wouldn't a relative get custody of her? I don't see any reason she would have to become a ward of the state. I would think one of her aunts would be her legal guardian. Imo

I think she would. Its all just a legality process.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Well, if the family is speculating as to whether he got into money problems...
It doesn't mean that he was killed because of a debt rather..
That the money problems led him to be involved with things he otherwise might not
OR
That these things he was involved in may have caused money problems
Whatever he was involved in could be linked to their murders

(Snipped for focus)

Excellent point. I don't know why that didn't occur to me. Maybe just because I don't get that kind of "vibe" from this family ? I sure could be wrong, though.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I dont know why it haunts me knowing Jaymes phone was found plugged in to be charged overnight but it does.

Everything seemed so normal that night like Jayme charging her phone overnight yet never got to use it again.

That makes me incredibly sad for some reason. Maybe it's because our own granddaughters Jaymes age does the same before going to bed each night.

Jmo

 

[Jazzy5980]

I was thinking more in terms if she was found injured would need adult to make

This is something Ive worried about. If she is his beneficiary, and theres money to be distributed. Im sure she has to be of age to receive it, but still. Its been on my mind as a purpose for taking her.

Hopefully JC and DC had wills designating individual(s), presumably family members, responsible for Jayme’s care, education and support in the event they passed away before she reached the age of majority. Courts generally appoint GALs as a last resort if there are no living relatives or relatives unfit/unwilling to care for minor. Proceeds from JCs and DCs would go to individual(s) in charge of her care since she is not an adult.

 

[Jazzy5980]

would this make her a ward of the state until a guardian is appointed?

Absolutely not.