AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #25

[JRW]

Then how do you account for the 911 call 22 minutes later? And supposing one was still alive to make it 22 minutes later, who kicked the phone away from them?

It doesn’t add up.

Unless Jayme got away from him ran back in the house, the perp followed found Denise making a call kicked the phone away and grabbed Jayme again and thats why you hear someone yelling help on the call. Again just my opinion my brain is working in overtime trying to get a grasp on what happened inside that house.

 

[Blueberry2720]

I had not seen anything about that. Very little information on why they believe she is in Wisconsin.

I had not heard of Amanda Perrier, so I Googled her. There are a lot of articles and a FB page for her. AND, I could not find her in Websleuths. Could someone post a new thread for her? I am unable to do it from where I am right now. TIA.

 

[LVatty10]

I haven’t posted about my theory and I don’t necessarily have one belief as to how it happened.

But the longer this goes on, the more I think it was a person without any real ties to the Closs family. I am thinking he saw Jayme somewhere, possibly Facebook or leaving dance class or via a friend of a friends kid, and became fixated on her.
Maybe he lives out of town and saw her one time while visiting family and is familiar with the area.

The more random a crime is, the more difficult it is to solve. Mollie Tibbetts murderer would likely not be in custody if not for the luck that he was caught on video. Why? Because he had no real connection to her and the attack seems to have been fueled by rage and sexual deviance. I think the degree of separation here between the perp(s) and Jayme is similar to that between Mollie and her rapist/murderer.

IMO the sexual deviance (hebephelia) was more of the driving factor in this case. Maybe the rage just came out and the guy shot James even though he hadn’t planned on doing so? I wouldn’t be surprised if this guy has kidnapped or attempted to kidnap before. There are soo many missing girls in this age bracket whose disappearances have never been solved.

In any event, we need something like the video in Mollies case to catch this SOB. What is that one piece of evidence that could nab him!? Is it identifying the tags on the black suv? Is it the results of DNA/forensics testing? Is it pings to a nearby cellphone tower? Idk but there has to be something!! Right? What evidence do you think would open the door to finding the perp(s)?

 

[chili367]

I'm not hoping that she isn't alive of course, more that someone isn't taunting her with the idea that no one has any idea where she is!

Guessing the Wisconsin angle is due to older (or not) BF/GF involvement here.[This was supposed to be in reply to the recent Illinois missing 16-year-old.)

IMHO, we can toss all the trafficking talk here. First, it's rare. Second, I think we're slowly learning details that leads to this being personal in some way (money, information[seeing something]. Jayme, or something.)

I'll keep harping on the timeline until (if?) we get some firm, final information.

Also, obviously, we have to understand we may never know what happened in that house, regardless of what happens to Jayme.

I'd really love to hear some good news ahead of Thanksgiving.

 

[x_files]

An interesting look at home invasions. The more you read about them, the more I'm worried this may have been random.
Providence man recounts violent home invasion

This case absolutely fits into the Home Invasion department.
Now, were they selected by random or targeted? Did they know the family? or driving through?

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Sorry, it just doesn't hold water for me.

Taking Jayme doesn't really fit either. There's no reason not to just shoot her. The logic about not wanting to fire another shot because the cops were on the way just doesn't make sense. If you are willing to bust in a door and kill two people then you aren't going to pause when it comes to shooting the kid. Nothing was subtle about this.

And I have trouble seeing how they would spend that much time looking for something to steal from the house and not leave any fingerprints or DNA.

Just doesn't add up.

I respect your opinion, Bizzle. I will add this though...most violent home invaders wear gloves. As for the not wanting to risk a shot being heard by LE, the suspects didn't know how close LE actually was before they made their escape. I would imagine even these idiots would have been smart enough not to have wanted to engage in a barrage of gun fire with LE.

JMO

 

[Mountain_Kat]

This case absolutely fits into the Home Invasion department.
Now, were they selected by random or targeted? Did they know the family? or driving through?

Either random strangers or someone peripherally known to the Closses, would be my guess. Distant neighbor, relative of a neighbor, friend of a family member, someone who had done some work at the house, etc.

 

[photographer4]

I haven’t posted about my theory and I don’t necessarily have one belief as to how it happened.

But the longer this goes on, the more I think it was a person without any real ties to the Closs family. I am thinking he saw Jayme somewhere, possibly Facebook or leaving dance class or via a friend of a friends kid, and became fixated on her.
Maybe he lives out of town and saw her one time while visiting family and is familiar with the area.

The more random a crime is, the more difficult it is to solve. Mollie Tibbetts murderer would likely not be in custody if not for the luck that he was caught on video. Why? Because he had no real connection to her and the attack seems to have been fueled by rage and sexual deviance. I think the degree of separation here between the perp(s) and Jayme is similar to that between Mollie and her rapist/murderer.

IMO the sexual deviance (hebephelia) was more of the driving factor in this case. Maybe the rage just came out and the guy shot James even though he hadn’t planned on doing so? I wouldn’t be surprised if this guy has kidnapped or attempted to kidnap before. There are soo many missing girls in this age bracket whose disappearances have never been solved.

In any event, we need something like the video in Mollies case to catch this SOB. What is that one piece of evidence that could nab him!? Is it identifying the tags on the black suv? Is it the results of DNA/forensics testing? Is it pings to a nearby cellphone tower? Idk but there has to be something!! Right? What evidence do you think would open the door to finding the perp(s)?

I'd like a crack at reviewing video footage from the following places for the week prior and week after this crime:
-> any video at the school where Jayme attended that shows people coming and going / or monitors kids on the school yard (especially if it shows any distance outside the school (street, sidewalks, homes).
-> any video from the church parking lot / entrances / road (who came and went, when and why)?
- > I'd like the video footage for any toll roads in the area that night who came and went that day / night? Which direction?
-> I'd like the type of gun(s) determined by casings left behind so people can start to think about who had / has one like it and what happened to it / where is it / who uses / used it?
-> I'd like to have parents cough up video they have from any dance recitals. Who was in the crowd? Why? Was there anyone there people didn't know? Or someone who just showed up to watch a friend's kid etc?

Somewhere, someone has information, even if they don't realize they have it. It might just be a matter of helping someone to realize they have potential evidence.

 

[gipsypup]

If they are still interested in these vehicles, then I agree, at minimum, a still shot from the cameras. It may trigger someone's memory if they see the actual vehicle, and not a description or stock photo.

That being said, it is possible to figure out what camera took the photos/video of the vehicles (based on angles and other things in the shot), and that could put someone in danger.

Exactly. Are they still looking for a red car and just not a Challenger?

 

[BlinkOfAnI]

. I tried

 

[x_files]

Either random strangers or someone peripherally known to the Closses, would be my guess. Distant neighbor, relative of a neighbor, friend of a family member, someone who had done some work at the house, etc.

I agree.
I think of the Elizabeth Smart case where they were employed by the dad to do yardwork/house repairs. also, not Home Invasion as much as a child abduction. This case feels more like HI...but, not 100% sure if Jayme was targeted prior or afterward.

 

[BlinkOfAnI]

Where do you go to start a new thread? I've only done t once and it was ages ago.
ETA or can someone more experienced do it?

 

[otto]

The neighbor have said they didn't even know anything happened until they woke up the next morning. So I don't think they knew when police got there.

Thanks. That makes the 12:51 time more plausible. They must have been asleep when they heard the shots, they glanced at the clock, and went back to sleep.

Regarding the disconnected landline, has there been any more information about whether the line was cut, or whether it was no longer used by the family?

 

[BlinkOfAnI]

I had not heard of Amanda Perrier, so I Googled her. There are a lot of articles and a FB page for her. AND, I could not find her in Websleuths. Could someone post a new thread for her? I am unable to do it from where I am right now. TIA.

@Tricia New thread on Amanda Perrier missing. I've only done it once a long time ago.

 

[Mica]

.

 

[bellyup]

I'm hopeful that once the DNA comes back... that they're better able to connect the dots and hopefully narrow it down to a suspect list. I wonder how long it takes to get the forensics back?

With FBI involved?
Max two weeks on DNA . They have it already.

 

[JRW]

With FBI involved?
Max two weeks on DNA . They have it already.

my guess is there is little to no DNA I think the perp wore gloves, and was very careful... doubt they rummaged through much.... probably went in with an agenda and carried it out quickly

 

[SkipperKey3]

I haven’t posted about my theory and I don’t necessarily have one belief as to how it happened.

But the longer this goes on, the more I think it was a person without any real ties to the Closs family. I am thinking he saw Jayme somewhere, possibly Facebook or leaving dance class or via a friend of a friends kid, and became fixated on her.
Maybe he lives out of town and saw her one time while visiting family and is familiar with the area.

The more random a crime is, the more difficult it is to solve. Mollie Tibbetts murderer would likely not be in custody if not for the luck that he was caught on video. Why? Because he had no real connection to her and the attack seems to have been fueled by rage and sexual deviance. I think the degree of separation here between the perp(s) and Jayme is similar to that between Mollie and her rapist/murderer.

IMO the sexual deviance (hebephelia) was more of the driving factor in this case. Maybe the rage just came out and the guy shot James even though he hadn’t planned on doing so? I wouldn’t be surprised if this guy has kidnapped or attempted to kidnap before. There are soo many missing girls in this age bracket whose disappearances have never been solved.

In any event, we need something like the video in Mollies case to catch this SOB. What is that one piece of evidence that could nab him!? Is it identifying the tags on the black suv? Is it the results of DNA/forensics testing? Is it pings to a nearby cellphone tower? Idk but there has to be something!! Right? What evidence do you think would open the door to finding the perp(s)?

I agree that the longer it goes on, the more likely it is that there is a certain degree of separation that is hard to fathom. I still think it is a mistake, however, to limit our thought to thinking that Jayme was the intended target simply because she was taken. She may have been, but it is just as likely that she wasn't. There are just too many unknown variables.

 

[Trino]

Maybe I've been on WS too long, but...

We judge people we know by what we see in the present. which is probably the way things should be. However, we usually know little about past events of relatives, friends, co-workers, neighbors, or acquaintances. For example, at a wake of a 4 yr acquaintance, a friend said to me, "You know he spent 16 yrs in prison because he murdered his wife." Uh, no, I didn't know. After recovering from the shock, I thought about the fact that we all have parts of our lives we would rather people not uncover. Maybe there's been an emotional hurt, something mildly illegal or worse. How does this relate to the Closs case? What appears to be a wonderful scenario might not be so.

 

[Lillymac]

With FBI involved?
Max two weeks on DNA . They have it already.

So, what does this indicate? No DNA other than the victims? Any DNA not the victims, is not in the database? When was the last presser to give updates? The silence from LE is just crazy. I wish they would say something...