Found Deceased WI - Kathleen Ryan, adult, teacher, car found burned with body inside, St. Francis, 2 Feb 2019

[cuttlebone]

Take this for what it is, JMHO, but I have several mutual friends with the Ryan family, which in no way makes me an expert in this case or anything else, but I have not heard or read anything indicating that anyone thinks this was a personal attack. Personally, I will be shocked it if turns out to be anything other than some random psycho criminal who happened upon her. Again, JMHO, as again, I’m not a verified insider.

Have you heard anything indicating that the victim was not in a usual state of mind at the time - what was going on in her life just then, etc.?

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Statistics doesnt mean one thing to individual victims in unsolved cases.

Just because overall violent crime has declined how did that protect THIS particular lovely woman from being murdered? Of course it didn't.

Just because others may have been murdered by someone they knew personally has nothing to do with who actually killed THIS woman..

We have been painfully aware of cases right here where a complete stranger or strangers have done unspeakable overkills of victims they had never known including dousing the victim with gasoline and setting them on fire while still alive.

As for the possibilty it may be gang related it's as valid as any others possible potential suspects.

While the stats may say they most often murder other gang members there are many cases where they victimize others totally unconnected.

All one has to do is read local, area, state or even national news to know gangs have victimized all types of victims.

They certainly are potential suspects to consider as any other. Imo

What's the difference in assuming these horrific acts were personal? Imo, I've seen nothing that supports that assumption either nor have I seen LE mention they believe this was personal.

But of course others have the same right to believe it may be gang related, rightly so.

All I hope is they are able to find these monsters who were capable of doing this to an totally innocent lovely mom, wife, grandmother, and great teacher.

Only when solved, and the suspects known will she be entered into the correct statistical category. As of now what it will be remains unknown, and totally irrelevant at this time.

Statistics didn't save or protect Jayme Closs from being kidnapped by a complete total stranger who held her captive for 88 hellish days even though the stats state it's rare. Just like it hasn't countless others.

Well it wasn't rare to Jayme since it did happen to her even though posters put up stats all during her captivity simply because the stats said so, and the posters were adamant it had to be someone she knew well on a personal basis based solely on relying on statistics when no one knew at the time what statistics would even apply to Jayme.

That is why I never rely on any statistical data in any unsolved case since they do not apply to individual victims in the unsolved cases.

Until solved the suspect is unknown. Until resolved the category will temain totally unknown. Victims are added to statistics AFTER the suspect is known, and not before.

My personal opinion whoever did this had no relationship whatsoever with the victim.

Unfortunately, these are the hardest cases of all for LE to solve.

I pray they can find them soon, and take them off the streets for they are extremely dangerous.

Imo

 

[cuttlebone]

Just because overall violent crime has declined how did that protect THIS particular lovely woman from being murdered?

It's being investigated as a homicide but it has not been ruled a homicide.

Also, tendencies do matter, though statistics can never be a hundred percent accurate as predictors. People are murdered largely be people they know.

Your prayers for the removal from the streets of whomever "they" might be are noted.

 

[LarkBunting]

Have you heard anything indicating that the victim was not in a usual state of mind at the time - what was going on in her life just then, etc.?

No, absolutely nothing like that. It was a regular Saturday, what was to be a regular trip to see the game & visit with family. I have read the grandkids had a birthday cake for her, as her bday was two days later (the Monday). I have *not* read or heard anything about any odd or negative things going on in her life currently.

 

[cuttlebone]

No, absolutely nothing like that. It was a regular Saturday, what was to be a regular trip to see the game & visit with family. I have read the grandkids had a birthday cake for her, as her bday was two days later (the Monday). I have *not* read or heard anything about any odd or negative things going on in her life currently.

Thank you. Interesting. While suicide is still a possibility - it's the most direct solution here - that as well as the fact that Ms. Ryan was a Roman Catholic, with that religion's strictures against suicide, make it seem less likely.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

It's being investigated as a homicide but it has not been ruled a homicide.

Also, tendencies do matter, though statistics can never be a hundred percent accurate as predictors. People are murdered largely be people they know.

Your prayers for the removal from the streets of whomever "they" might be are noted.

I understand if you want to rely heavily on statistics, and respect that you do.

However, for me personally, I stopped putting individual victims of unsolved cases into a ready made box with not even knowing what category they will eventually be added to at some point once the suspect has actually been found.

I stopped doing this over a decade ago, because I realized it caused me to make assumptions about unknowns when I really had no clue who the suspect even was at the time, it made me also realize victims are all just as individual as much as the ones who murder them.

It was like getting the cart before the horse for me.

Since I have been researching, and following murder cases, and other violent crimes for almost 4 decades now it has served me well by learning to discount what any statistical average may or may not be, when it is pretaining to other individuals, and does not apply to the actual victim or victims in the unsolved cases where the suspect/s aren't known.

Perhaps it's because I have seen more cases than I can count over the decades where when the suspect was finally caught they were not known to the victim or victim/s.

It showed me statistics only matter when the suspect is finally known, and not prematurely jumping to unsupported conclusions based solely on what happened to others on some statistical average.

I would rather have verified evidence revealing who the suspect truly is first, rather than prematurely relying solely on statistical averages that doesnt even pertain yet to any of the victims in any of unsolved cases where the suspect or suspects aren't even known.

For example: In this case I have seen nothing that supports this was in any way personal in any manner.

Usually by this time negative things would be leaked and said by now, but nothing but only glowing remarks about this ENTIRE family.

I firmly believe, if,and when the suspects are caught there won't be any familiar link between this victim,and those who took her life.

I will stand by that opinion until I know otherwise.

Thanks for reolying.

Imo

 

[OhThatVictoria]

I don’t know all that much about cars but if anyone here does, KR’s car was a 2007 pontiac g6 gt coupe.

Do any of the problems indicate that the car could have started on fire? Circuitry perhaps?

There was a recall on this model:
https://www.cars.com/research/pontiac-g6-2007/recalls/

One person on this thread indicated a smoke smell coming through the heating vent (Complaint #5)
“Had heat/air on and smoke smelling like a firecracker came from passenger dashboard.”
2007 Pontiac G6 Suspension Problems

An FYI on car fires:
6 Common Causes of Car Fires

 

[Joe Friday]

I don’t know all that much about cars but if anyone here does, KR’s car was a 2007 pontiac g6 gt coupe.

Do any of the problems indicate that the car could have started on fire? Circuitry perhaps?

There was a recall on this model:
https://www.cars.com/research/pontiac-g6-2007/recalls/

One person on this thread indicated a smoke smell coming through the heating vent (Complaint #5)
“Had heat/air on and smoke smelling like a firecracker came from passenger dashboard.”
2007 Pontiac G6 Suspension Problems

An FYI on car fires:
6 Common Causes of Car Fires

Had Kathleen's car started on fire due to some problem with the car she would have exited the car.

In a scenario like this if her car suddenly started to fill with smoke or she noticed some coming from under the hood as she was driving along to her destination I think she most likely would have pulled over to the side of the road as soon as possible, stopped and exited the vehicle saving herself from the fire and the 911 center would have been flooded with calls from other motorist notifying the local fire and police departments.

What I think she wouldn't have done if her car had started on fire while she was driving, would be to deviate from the route she was said to have normally taken looking for a secluded private driveway to park her car where she could remain in the car as it became completely engulfed in flames and being overwhelmed by the smoke and fire.

Now when you figure in the six or seven hours of time from when she should have been driving until when the car was reported as burning, a fire started by some problem with the car is even less probable.



JMO

 

[Eleanor Rigby]

Take this for what it is, JMHO, but I have several mutual friends with the Ryan family, which in no way makes me an expert in this case or anything else, but I have not heard or read anything indicating that anyone thinks this was a personal attack. Personally, I will be shocked it if turns out to be anything other than some random psycho criminal who happened upon her. Again, JMHO, as again, I’m not a verified insider.

Thank you for sharing that information. Like I said, I do hope my initial gut reaction is wrong. Maybe it's time to look at crimes differently. Perhaps we have entered an era in which the types of vicious attacks that used to be mainly personal are now more commonly being perpetrated against total strangers for no logical motive. In other words, maybe there are just more, as you stated, "random psycho criminals" in our midst. Such a terrifying thought! I'm sure that colored my thinking, too. So sorry for Kathleen, and for the grief and pain her family and friends are experiencing. MOO.

 

[SpanishMossAntiques]

People hear 'Chicago' and they automatically think it's the most dangerous city in the world with the most shootings and MS-13 gang members beating up old ladies and children on every street - SMH... The top 10 most dangerous cities in America according to Forbes are: Detroit, St.Louis, Oakland, Memphis, Birmingham, Atlanta, Baltimore, Stockton, Cleveland, and Buffalo. The area where Ryan's car/body were found is generally very, very nice - for the most part, you'd need to have a lot -and I mean a lot- of money to live there. There are pockets of impoverished areas that do have some gang activity in them, such as Round Lake Beach, but the area is generally agricultural farmland, horse farms, very large and expensive houses, and some shopping centers (along with Six Flags Great America). Anyway, having been in law enforcement I can tell you with absolute certainty that gang members are interested in killing other gang members: That is how they attain 'real estate' on the streets - they take from the other gang. By shooting me (who is not a gang member) they acquire nothing - they're not going to gain any cred or power by committing a murder of someone who has no affinity or relationship with the gang's designated area. When non-gang members are killed they're either innocent bystanders, family of a known rival gang member, potential members who refuse to join, and those who give the gang a very, very hard time. Gangs don't usually bother burning the bodies of their victims! IMO this crime seems like someone who knew her...

 

[LarkBunting]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wi...-ryan-milwaukee-teacher-st-augustine/26290028

 

[human]

People hear 'Chicago' and they automatically think it's the most dangerous city in the world with the most shootings and MS-13 gang members beating up old ladies and children on every street - SMH... The top 10 most dangerous cities in America according to Forbes are: Detroit, St.Louis, Oakland, Memphis, Birmingham, Atlanta, Baltimore, Stockton, Cleveland, and Buffalo. The area where Ryan's car/body were found is generally very, very nice - for the most part, you'd need to have a lot -and I mean a lot- of money to live there. There are pockets of impoverished areas that do have some gang activity in them, such as Round Lake Beach, but the area is generally agricultural farmland, horse farms, very large and expensive houses, and some shopping centers (along with Six Flags Great America). Anyway, having been in law enforcement I can tell you with absolute certainty that gang members are interested in killing other gang members: That is how they attain 'real estate' on the streets - they take from the other gang. By shooting me (who is not a gang member) they acquire nothing - they're not going to gain any cred or power by committing a murder of someone who has no affinity or relationship with the gang's designated area. When non-gang members are killed they're either innocent bystanders, family of a known rival gang member, potential members who refuse to join, and those who give the gang a very, very hard time. Gangs don't usually bother burning the bodies of their victims! IMO this crime seems like someone who knew her...

I think people would be astounded if they went to the Chicago area and saw mansion after mansion.

I was a teacher and one of the parents I had was a former Crips. I asked him why they kill each other instead of the people who are oppressive.

He said the same thing. It was to establish power in the group.

Robbing an older woman ? Usually woman don’t carry much money do they? Going to an ATM to withdraw money? Did she do that for the perp? There would be a record of that.

On a Saturday, she would not be carrying money to pay for a bill. Maybe she would have $20 for lunch.

He car does not scream wealth.

Are there any crimes reported in that area such as an assault? There is that crime map that shows crimes. I forget the name of it.

 

[human]

http://www.city-data.com/city/Gurnee-Illinois.html

 

[Razz]

If they are looking for a suspect, I'd suggest they look for someone who may have singed eyebrows and hair and a face that looks like it has been sunburned.

 

[cuttlebone]

Why are people above talking about Chicago when the auto was found over 50 miles from there, and the victim was from the Milwaukee area?

 

[Joe Friday]

Why are people above talking about Chicago when the auto was found over 50 miles from there, and the victim was from the Milwaukee area?

Because it makes their theory that Kathleen was murdered by Chicago gang members more plausible.

JMO

 

[Joe Friday]

Things do happen that are likely gang related in the suburbs, but they usually happen to other members of gangs or drug dealers who don't pay the gang for the drugs they received.

The following incident happened last Saturday morning, in Indleside not far from Gurnee where Kathleen's car was found and is likely gang related.

I would bet the two men who were shot owed money for some drugs and two gang members came to collect.

2 men shot after masked intruders enter home, demand money: Lake County sheriff's police
JMO

 

[cuttlebone]

With MS-13 documented in the Dairy State, one would think that might be enough!

But that's not the stereotype being used to affright.

 

[zencompass]

I understand if you want to rely heavily on statistics, and respect that you do.

However, for me personally, I stopped putting individual victims of unsolved cases into a ready made box with not even knowing what category they will eventually be added to at some point once the suspect has actually been found.

I stopped doing this over a decade ago, because I realized it caused me to make assumptions about unknowns when I really had no clue who the suspect even was at the time, it made me also realize victims are all just as individual as much as the ones who murder them.

It was like getting the cart before the horse for me.

Since I have been researching, and following murder cases, and other violent crimes for almost 4 decades now it has served me well by learning to discount what any statistical average may or may not be, when it is pretaining to other individuals, and does not apply to the actual victim or victims in the unsolved cases where the suspect/s aren't known.

Perhaps it's because I have seen more cases than I can count over the decades where when the suspect was finally caught they were not known to the victim or victim/s.

It showed me statistics only matter when the suspect is finally known, and not prematurely jumping to unsupported conclusions based solely on what happened to others on some statistical average.

I would rather have verified evidence revealing who the suspect truly is first, rather than prematurely relying solely on statistical averages that doesnt even pertain yet to any of the victims in any of unsolved cases where the suspect or suspects aren't even known.

For example: In this case I have seen nothing that supports this was in any way personal in any manner.

Usually by this time negative things would be leaked and said by now, but nothing but only glowing remarks about this ENTIRE family.

I firmly believe, if,and when the suspects are caught there won't be any familiar link between this victim,and those who took her life.

I will stand by that opinion until I know otherwise.

Thanks for reolying.

Imo

Dear Oceanblueeyes,

Thank you for your posts, insightful and greatly compassionate, as always.

Your statement (below) speaks genuinely to the specificity of each case because, as you state, each specific case is as individual as the victim and the perpetrator(s). On top of that, we have variables, circumstances at the time (even weather conditions) in addition to the perpetrator's mind at the time, at that very place in time and in that particular area.

From Oceanblueeye's post (linked above):
"I stopped doing this over a decade ago, because I realized it caused me to make assumptions about unknowns when I really had no clue who the suspect even was at the time, it made me also realize victims are all just as individual as much as the ones who murder them."

 

[Wagtales10]

People hear 'Chicago' and they automatically think it's the most dangerous city in the world with the most shootings and MS-13 gang members beating up old ladies and children on every street - SMH... The top 10 most dangerous cities in America according to Forbes are: Detroit, St.Louis, Oakland, Memphis, Birmingham, Atlanta, Baltimore, Stockton, Cleveland, and Buffalo. The area where Ryan's car/body were found is generally very, very nice - for the most part, you'd need to have a lot -and I mean a lot- of money to live there. There are pockets of impoverished areas that do have some gang activity in them, such as Round Lake Beach, but the area is generally agricultural farmland, horse farms, very large and expensive houses, and some shopping centers (along with Six Flags Great America). Anyway, having been in law enforcement I can tell you with absolute certainty that gang members are interested in killing other gang members: That is how they attain 'real estate' on the streets - they take from the other gang. By shooting me (who is not a gang member) they acquire nothing - they're not going to gain any cred or power by committing a murder of someone who has no affinity or relationship with the gang's designated area. When non-gang members are killed they're either innocent bystanders, family of a known rival gang member, potential members who refuse to join, and those who give the gang a very, very hard time. Gangs don't usually bother burning the bodies of their victims! IMO this crime seems like someone who knew her...

bbm