WI WI - Kelly Nolan, 22, Madison, 23 June 2007 #1

[Ang50]

There is a reason so many people, right here in Madison, can't believe they found her dead. Very few thought she was in danger.

That is not typical, at least in my experience, and something to think about before anyone judges me or anyone questioning LE in this case. I don't know any other way to get people to understand that.

If it is typical or standard in missing person cases...let me know. Simple.

I agree. Let's give just one example - while fliers were put up, how many search parties were organized by police? I don't know of any, but maybe someone else can tell us. However, the general search effort was conducted very differently than Laci, or Tara Grinstead, or even the drunk Purdue student - Wade Steffey.

I also second the perception that very few people thought Kelly was in danger. My friends in school at Madison were not concerned about themselves, and not concerned about finding her or why she disappeared. That's because there was a perception that this was a voluntary disappearance - whether that came from LE or the media or both.

 

[ihadcabinfever]

http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=state&id=5462636


Police say the area where the body was found had been searched before, but not to the extent it was this morning. Authorities say dogs trained to recognize Nolan's scent were involved in the latest search.

Nevermind. Strange though. Poor kid. I have read here and at Court Tv. Is there confusion about the way LE handled this? I have learned one thing reading here that LE enforces the law they don't make it up as they go along. I am glad that Tecnology can help finding people but , How long does it really take to get access to someones phone records?

 

[ella's mom]

I can't answer any questions about the dog unless it wasn't trained in cadaver smells but a human being smelled the body and didn't call it in? Sorry, this case has made national news and to be so negligent is regretful at best. Just doesn't make any sense to me.

In the defense of the land owner, it's a rural area with animal farms near by. My guess is there are many times that there are foul smells in that area (manure, dead animals, etc). Chances are the landowner has never smelled a dead body, so probably just didn't connect the two.

 

[Straitfan]

Do you know if a cell has to be turned on to "ping"? i.e. battery can't be dead, right? Also - does the cell have to be active - i.e. phone call in or out?

A subpoena requires "probable cause" that a crime has been committed. THUS, if LE didn't initially suspect that foul play was involved, they would not have written a subpoena to get the phone records. Again, another delay in the case.

Ang50,
My guess would be they probably requested them earlier, but you have to remember the subpoena has to be issued from court first.. then sent to cell ph, via fax, email etc.. so anyway, they may have requested early, noone would know that.

My own thoughts, pinpointing a location from a "ping" in rural area would be more of a vast land area to cover than a city as in city, the ping would go from one cell site to next, distance in between cell sites would be much less (few miles apart, maybe) than in a rural location where the next cell site could be 15 miles away , ph isnt going to "ping " from it.. anyway, my techno skills are not that great, I know what I mean but words might not make sense!

If the ph is off/battery died, cant pick up a "ping" .. Heard on news the other day, kids, well, everyone probably should carry phone in hand vs, sticking in bottom of purse, even if you cant talk, can always hit 911.

Now as to GPS tracking has to work thru satelite but wouldnt have clue as to how long it would take to get records .hmmm, you would have to have your phone set to "location on" not E911 only though..

 

[ihadcabinfever]

Woman Says Nolan's Body Found on Her Property

http://www.nbc15.com/home/headlines/8441787.html

Reporter: Dana Brueck
Email Address: dbrueck@nbc15.com

A stretch of road has re-opened to traffic but is far from normal after the discovery of Kelly Nolan's body.
A forensics team wrapped up its work at the recovery scene on Wednesday. Nolan's body was found on Monday morning by a search team looking for evidence related to her disappearance.
Police cannot confirm the location, but a local woman says Nolan's body was found roughly 100 feet from her driveway.
I know it's very wooded ... just off of the blacktop," she says.
Eleanor Killerlain says she knows where Kelly Nolan was found.
Killerlain says the body was discovered near where she's lived for more than 50 years.
"Even if I drove up there with my 4-wheeler, I wouldn't see it... but the neighbors were complaining ... there was an awful smell so I didn't think anything of it... cause I hadn't been up there," she says.
A forensics team has been up there on Wednesday. Investigators were wrapping up work which started two days earlier.
"They're taking a look at soils beneath



It is pretty dense brush.




"I think it's always easiest if you can tell the public that this person was targeted for a specific reason, at this point, we don't know, and that does, I know, raise the concern level in the community more," DeSpain says.

And maybe she was. I hope whoever did this is following this and it's just a matter of time. Tick tock Tick tock.............

 

[ihadcabinfever]

http://wkow.madison.com/News/index.php?ID=13075

OK - now after reading this link above - I understand about Cafeguy. It seems more like it was clearly bar time (2:00am in WI) and time to leave. It also seems that Kelly really needed help to get home and might not have been able to do it on her own. So as Cafeguy is helping her outside, some other guy comes along, says he knows her, and will take her home.

Cafeguy doesn't know Kelly any better than this guy, plus maybe he still has to close down the bar, so he doesn't refuse. All plausible and certainly this guy has nothing to hide then, if he didn't do it.

She probably did know the second guy. Thank God she called her sister. Let her know where she would be. ....

 

[Ang50]

Ang50,
My guess would be they probably requested them earlier, but you have to remember the subpoena has to be issued from court first.. then sent to cell ph, via fax, email etc.. so anyway, they may have requested early, noone would know that.

If the ph is off/battery died, cant pick up a "ping" .. Heard on news the other day, kids, well, everyone probably should carry phone in hand vs, sticking in bottom of purse, even if you cant talk, can always hit 911.

LE wouldn't ask and court wouldn't grant unless there was probable cause. My point was simply that if LE didn't think that Kelly was in danger, then they might not have requested the phone records as earlier as they should have.

OK - so if phone is dead, then no ping. But if it's on, no matter if talking on it or not, then there's always a ping, right?

Another question - if you know - LE traced Scott Peterson's movements on a certain day based on his cell - it was moving towers, so they knew he drove and where he was driving.

Could LE do the same with Kelly after that night? Even if she wasn't talking on the cell, can they know from the records which towers the cell was using?

 

[Ang50]

She probably did know the second guy. Thank God she called her sister.

How do you know? Have you read something that confirms that?

 

[LionRun]

http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=state&id=5462636


Police say the area where the body was found had been searched before, but not to the extent it was this morning. Authorities say dogs trained to recognize Nolan's scent were involved in the latest search.

Nevermind. Strange though. Poor kid. I have read here and at Court Tv. Is there confusion about the way LE handled this? I have learned one thing reading here that LE enforces the law they don't make it up as they go along. I am glad that Tecnology can help finding people but , How long does it really take to get access to someones phone records?

Dead animals smell very similar to dead human bodies. So, it may be that the land owner believed he/she smelled the unpleasant, yet somewhat familiar smell of a dead animal. I don't know what other connections there may be between the landownes and Kelly. But, it is reasonable that the landowner believed the smell came from a dead animal being this is a rural area with much wildlife.

I imagine a human remains detection dog who was also given Kelly's scent was used. These dogs depend in a large part on air scenting. It is possible that at times, depending on the time of day, the weather, and the wind direction the scent may have been easier to detect than at other times.

Success depends on the skill and qualifications of the dog/handler team, whether or not they were searching in the correct general area, and weather and wind conditions. I have been on searches where an area was previously searched, nothing was found, and yet the body was found later in that area.

Lion

 

[Leila]

Greta interviewed a woman reported for the State Journal tonight, and she said that the area where the body was left is such that it would be easy for someone to pull off the road and dump the body and not be seen. There's houses on this road, but they're far apart. The body was across the road from horse stables, and if it was late at night, probably no one would be at the stables. Dr. Baden asked a great question - "Would a stranger know of this area?" Obviously, Dr. Baden is wondering if the murderer is someone who lives in Madison and is familiar with the area or a stranger. The woman reporter stated that since this road leads out of Madison, a stranger would take this road as well as someone familiar with the area.

 

[ihadcabinfever]

How do you know? Have you read something that confirms that?

They stated that she called her sister. Her sister can't talk about the details. So it would make perfect sense that , they separated earlier and that she called to let her sister know where she would be. Why else would they not be able to discuss the phone call. One more thing the mom seemed hopeful too. She must have been with someone the family or friends either knew or knew of. It is my guess.

 

[Ang50]

They stated that she called her sister. Her sister can't talk about the details. So it would make perfect sense that , they separated earlier and that she called to let her sister know where she would be. Why else would they not be able to discuss the phone call. One more thing the mom seemed hopeful too. She must have been with someone the family or friends either knew or knew of. It is my guess.

OK, I understand the reasoning. I'm not sure I agree, but I get it.

So under your theory, the most likely murderer is this guy, right? The last one to be seen with her, and thus someone she knew?

I don't think so for these reasons.
1) Police would say they have suspects, so as not to create hysteria in the Madison student community. They have stated they have no suspects.
2) She is from Waunakee, (20 mins from Madison) but goes to school in Whitewater (45 mins away). She would know some people in Madison, but how likely is it that someone she knew just happened to be walking by at bar time?
3) Even if she did know the person, how likely is that person to murder her and why? What's the motive?

 

[ihadcabinfever]

OK, I understand the reasoning. I'm not sure I agree, but I get it.

So under your theory, the most likely murderer is this guy, right? The last one to be seen with her, and thus someone she knew?

I don't think so for these reasons.
1) Police would say they have suspects, so as not to create hysteria in the Madison student community. They have stated they have no suspects.
2) She is from Waunakee, (20 mins from Madison) but goes to school in Whitewater (45 mins away). She would know some people in Madison, but how likely is it that someone she knew just happened to be walking by at bar time?
3) Even if she did know the person, how likely is that person to murder her and why? What's the motive?

1 I doubt they will say they have a suspect.
2 It all doesn't seem so far away from each other.She could have known alot of people. Enough to stay behind when everyone left.She must have felt comfortable.
3 I have no idea what happened after she called her sister.

Here this is what I was going by.
http://www.todaystmj4.com/news/local/8309977.html

A lot of information brings this smile and not tears. Kelly will be returned safely,” Mary Jane added.

According to the family, Nolan was out with her friends in the downtown Madison area on a Friday night. Her friends went home around 11:30 p.m., but Nolan decided to stay out longer by herself.
She made an early morning phone call to her sister, April. That was the last time anyone heard from her.
The family will not divulge what Kelly Nolan said in that phone call, but they say she was not depressed and would never go anywhere without staying in touch with her family.
“Mary Jane, you’re so positive she’ll be found but are you positive she’ll be found alive?” TODAY'S TMJ4 reporter Melissa McCrady asked. “Absolutely. It doesn’t take but a second to believe,” Mary Jane replied.

Thats what made me think it wasn't a total stranger.

 

[ihadcabinfever]

Or the reason she stayed behind could have been she was either waiting for someone or hoping someone would eventually show up. You just have to think back to when you went out. Back in the day.
I am sure she just didn't get handed off to a stranger. That doesn't make any sense.
The answer must be in her cell phone records.Face book or My Space.

 

[Straitfan]

I say good work to LE as at least she was found unlike many unsolved cases! If you look at recent cases such as Kelsy Smith (think was her name) as much as I dont care for cell ph companies, hee hee, I do believe that LE are getting the info quickly otherwise, if no leads.. then how are these missing persons being found?

There are many reasons, records can take time to obtain, for instance if her provider was say Cingular, and the "ping" was on a US cellular tower, then Cingular has to get subp and in turn get the call records from the other company.. Not uncommon for cell companies to "rent space" so to speak from other companies and especially happens in rural areas.. So if you figure, the LE may have been dealing with an approx 40 mile radius in which to search, I think they did a d.... good job!

 

[ihadcabinfever]

I say good work to LE as at least she was found unlike many unsolved cases! If you look at recent cases such as Kelsy Smith (think was her name) as much as I dont care for cell ph companies, hee hee, I do believe that LE are getting the info quickly otherwise, if no leads.. then how are these missing persons being found?

There are many reasons, records can take time to obtain, for instance if her provider was say Cingular, and the "ping" was on a US cellular tower, then Cingular has to get subp and in turn get the call records from the other company.. Not uncommon for cell companies to "rent space" so to speak from other companies and especially happens in rural areas.. So if you figure, the LE may have been dealing with an approx 40 mile radius in which to search, I think they did a d.... good job!

Yes they did do a good job. I wonder why they just can't log into the account online? Now even if they can't , Could her sister or any other family member get access immediatley if someone goes missing? I seriously doubt if my sister were missing that she would have a problem with me doing that....So maybe that could be a work around?

 

[ihadcabinfever]

That could tell you the last calls in and out atleast. I don't think it can tell you exactly where the calls are coming in from but a general idea. I wouldn't care I would do it.

Or maybe something optional could be put in place like a waiver from the phone company that in the event of an emergency so and so has permission to get records. That would be an excellent idea for teens and college students. I think it could save time. Something could be on a drivers license for adults. You could still opt out.

 

[Straitfan]

LE wouldn't ask and court wouldn't grant unless there was probable cause. My point was simply that if LE didn't think that Kelly was in danger, then they might not have requested the phone records as earlier as they should have.

OK - so if phone is dead, then no ping. But if it's on, no matter if talking on it or not, then there's always a ping, right?

Another question - if you know - LE traced Scott Peterson's movements on a certain day based on his cell - it was moving towers, so they knew he drove and where he was driving.

Could LE do the same with Kelly after that night? Even if she wasn't talking on the cell, can they know from the records which towers the cell was using?

Hey Ang50,
I think in case of SP they had placed a tracking device on his vehicle but could have been from cell as well.. In Trenton D case, there was cell tracking but again we aren't talking about a rural area.. very different case than in cities based on cell site locations..Who they are owned by etc can delay process. I know the "one" I work for, known for their "network" does not have alot of THEIR own sites in WI, mostly rent from local carriers as is not cost effective to put up their own based on population and other things...

With her being located in rural setting, I would doubt many cell sites close by which would mean LE would be going off of "last ping" . Does anyone wonder what made them look there where she was found???? They had to have been going off of "something!" right

 

[cheko1]

In the defense of the land owner, it's a rural area with animal farms near by. My guess is there are many times that there are foul smells in that area (manure, dead animals, etc). Chances are the landowner has never smelled a dead body, so probably just didn't connect the two.

I agree with you.......there are many times when a deer will get hit, they make it off the road only to die in the woods or heavy brush. I can't even imagine what LE would say if I called & told them I smelled a bad odor from the woods.

When you live out in the country seriously you deal with it.

 

[Straitfan]

Yes they did do a good job. I wonder why they just can't log into the account online? Now even if they can't , Could her sister or any other family member get access immediatley if someone goes missing? I seriously doubt if my sister were missing that she would have a problem with me doing that....So maybe that could be a work around?

You can pull up call records online but usually not until after the billing cycle is complete.. Overall it won't do any good anyway as will not give the location of the actual tower, just city, etc which even the city can sometimes not be correct as location listed maybe be a close major city while the person could have actually been in a small town close by.. if that makes sense.. :crazy: I.E. my calls list as Nashville though I live 20 mins away in another town..