Would you lie in court to save your child? CLOSED FOR REVIEW

[Turnadot]

:tyou: IfIMay

You have stated what I have been afraid to say. I am afraid of people who admit they would lie for someone, anyone- who has brutally murdered another human being. As a victim of abuse, to hear people say they would protect and lie for a person who hurts innocent people is more than I can comprehend.

A parent that would lie for their child when they had done something so terrible as to bring about the death penalty(which I do not support) did not just start covering for their child. To each their own opinion yes, but let's not mince words-to attack people who think lying is wrong-is wrong. And scary for me, personally.

A person who admits they have done wrong, will do wrong, does wrong in front of you...and then says "you don't like it? oh well..." Is very scary to me. And I want to be real mad at my mom, who taught me to not lie-that was supposed to make me a good person and help me to get along with people in society...guess that isn't working out too well. You would think, taking the stance that being a liar is wrong, that lying is wrong that helping a guilty person who has taken the life of another is wrong-would make you popular.

It does not.

:twocents:

I've not attacked anyone in this thread for their views. And I never mince my words. I always say exactly what I mean.

 

[Chiquita71]

I've not attacked anyone in this thread for their views. And I never mince my words. I always say exactly what I mean.

RespectfullyQuoted Turnadot
BBM

Sorry for the misunderstanding. I was mincing MY words. I have been afraid to say what I really think about the parents that would lie for their child who has murdered an innocent person-because a person like that frightens me.

I am glad you do not want to attack me. Thank you.

:twocents:

 

[Canadian4]

I voted yes.
If I was in the exact situation, I would not say I had done the searches if I didn't nor would I say I left the pool ladder up if I know I didn't

but

On a personal note I was in court with my son. He had breached his condition of being home by 10pm for the third night in a row and I called the police to tell them. He spent the night in jail. I was asked to testify if I thought he would do it again and I said no even though I thought he might, so yes I would lie. I know I did the right thing by turning him in and would do it again but unfortunately it cost me the relationship with my son. I agonize over having been put in this situation daily and cant even imagine what George and Cindy are going through.

 

[Turnadot]

RespectfullyQuoted Turnadot
BBM

Sorry for the misunderstanding. I was mincing MY words. I have been afraid to say what I really think about the parents that would lie for their child who has murdered an innocent person-because a person like that frightens me.

I am glad you do not want to attack me. Thank you.

:twocents:

Fair enough. I knew when I entered this thread and posted that it may lead to certain conclusions about me. Whether or not those conclusions are right wrong are irrelevant: it's your right to conclude things based on what I post. That's fine, it's only fair. It's my burden to bear, if you will. No one forced me into this conversation. I never expect anyone to mince their words with me, or be afraid to tell me what they think of me or my stance.

Saying certain things are against the rules here, but really, I put myself out there; whatever you say of me, or think of me is fair game.

 

[SarahEcho]

There are no innocent victims of forced opinions on this board, everyone volunteers and every last one of us is guilty. YES, I’M TALKING TO DIRECTLY TO YOU… it doesn’t matter if you only lurk, come & go or actively post… feel passionate about a position one day and change it the next.

Between the "how could you's?!", the "you didn't love your daughter or granddaughter enough or in the proper way's", the “poor CA she just breaks my heart with how disillusioned she is from grief”, the “CA is conflicted, broken hearted, torn”....

I like consider myself a very rational person that can appreciate both sides of an argument. I’m a fixer, it’s what I do; everyone needs to be happy and well. Maybe I suffer from a bit too much of the "touchy feely 70's child Kumbaya syndrome" but I'm cool with it cause it beats the alternative. However….

I’ve also flipped the switch to absolute apathy, with very scary ease… a few times…. AND… I’ve had the rug pulled out from under my feet by people that I trusted completely – by people I should have been able to trust & by a few that I shouldn’t have trusted. One was a textbook Dark Triad that gas lighted me so well that I fought my rational head and consistently broken heart for 6 years!!! I will never have peace of mind because it just doesn’t compute on so many emotional and rational levels.

My point is there is NO RIGHT ANSWER to any of this. If you have never been completely fooled by someone, never been let down or had your heart broken repeatedly, lost someone so precious to you by the hands of someone else that also holds your heart in those same guilty hands… then I don’t think you can stand with such honest conviction for truth & justice and also be telling the truth.

I don’t think my signature has ever been more appropriate than it is today, "Life is pretty much in the grays for the most part and if you insist always on black and white... you are going to be very unhappy."

Now Imma jump off my box and go back to the bloopers, what did we learn polls and maybe even downstairs for a bit so I can get my warm and fuzzies back on…

Peace Ya’ll… and for goodness sake…. before you give yourself or someone else a stroke… play nice and laugh a little now and then! :heartbeat:

FBM

I agree with you on this one, there just is no "right" answer that should be universally accepted by everyone.

Honesty is important and justice should be done in this case and every other but sometimes life happens.

I very much believe in letting my children suffer the consequences of their actions but there comes a point where the price may be too high. In this case, a family has lost a child they loved dearly. Even in the event of the Anthonys behaving in the most exemplary way, many would still view them as monsters that raised a monster. Classic damned if you do, damned if you don't. Unable to bring themselves to allow another child to die by the hand of the state is not a matter of knowing your child won't be able to go to the prom for skipping school or doing six months for stealing a check. It's death.

I really do believe they would stone Casey to death themselves if it would bring Caylee back to them but they are taking what they can get. Sophie's Choice.

 

[Turnadot]

I agree with you on this one, there just is no "right" answer that should be universally accepted by everyone.

Honesty is important and justice should be done in this case and every other but sometimes life happens.

I very much believe in letting my children suffer the consequences of their actions but there comes a point where the price may be too high. In this case, a family has lost a child they loved dearly. Even in the event of the Anthonys behaving in the most exemplary way, many would still view them as monsters that raised a monster. Classic damned if you do, damned if you don't. Unable to bring themselves to allow another child to die by the hand of the state is not a matter of knowing your child won't be able to go to the prom for skipping school or doing six months for stealing a check. It's death.

I really do believe they would stone Casey to death themselves if it would bring Caylee back to them but they are taking what they can get. Sophie's Choice.

Yes. This.

And I would never lie to keep my son out of prison, or LWOP.

 

[FootballMom]

Thank you to everyone that supported my long winded post from last night... This subject has been weighing heavily on my mind... There are just too many scenarios and variables to know what I (or anyone else) would do.

Are there any instances where I would lie to benefit my son? I'd be lying if I said there aren't... Do I teach him right from wrong (including not to lie)? Of course... Do I call him out when I think he may be embellishing the truth? Of course... (note: in 14 yrs I have NEVER once caught him in a lie, it's just not in his nature.)

One of my most shameful parenting mistakes was to not believe something my son claimed for 6 years. It was something that was not in anyway his fault... but for all intents and purposes I'd labeled him an outright liar over the topic.

At his 11 yr check up I exasperatedly asked the nurse to test him for colorblindness during his vision screening so that "we could once and for all put his "self diagnosis" to rest because I was tired of hearing it".....

Did I know there was a chance he could be colorblind? Yes, because my brother is. I randomly "tested" him often by using a bag of colored balloons and by pointing at things. He always got it right... the evidence was clear, my mind was made up, he was absolutely not color blind.

AND of course the nurse tells me... he is absolutely color blind and not just a little but ALOT! The first words out of his mouth will forever be sealed in my memory... choking back tears; "Mom, will you believe me now?".... I was stunned!

I asked him why he always got the colors right and with tears coming closer to the surface of his beautiful blue eyes he said, "because when I was little I got the crayons wrong so many times I had to memorize them".... Even with a medical diagnosis I was still in disbelief and when we left the office I continued to test him while driving... and for the first time I really listened to him and it made sense.

If I can be so completely wrong about something so innocent and judge my son for it.... I would be VERY hesitant to definitively say whether I would or would not lie to save or to benefit him in any given situation... that doesn't mean that if he deserved punishment that I would not hold him accountable and accept the consequences... You just never know until you are standing right there in the middle of it.

 

[Silmarion]

You never know what you're going to do until you're faced with it.

 

[donnam]

I've not attacked anyone in this thread for their views. And I never mince my words. I always say exactly what I mean.

Nor have I. I believe everyone has the right to answer honestly without fear of retribution. Everyone's opinions are their own and should be respected as such. I will never attack someone for having a different opinion then mine.

 

[Chiquita71]

I am not sure what people who would lie to get a person who had murdered someone else off free, are doing in a victim's advocate site? As I said, this type of talk triggers my abuse issues. Hypothetical or not, I could never imagine wanting anyone to go free of murder or to go free of any crime. I believe that two wrongs do not make a right, and to lie about something so serious as murder-to have to explain why that is wrong is as crazy as explaining to the one who has murdered why it is wrong. They just ain't gonna see what ya mean...

And, again: anyone who would admit they would lie in this manner-scares me. I would be afraid my "child" might come after me, how scary is someone who is not scared of someone they KNOW killed in cold blood? But it explains to me a lot of what is wrong in the world.

I am at this site because I would like to see the "child" who murdered Caylee another "child" is punished and I find it disgusting that her Mama is lying for her to set her free. The new question should be, "if you lie in court to set your child free and it works...what do you do the NEXT time they kill?" Is there a line? I know now why JVS has gotten away with the murder of NH, and not really suffering as others would for the death of SF: cause of his mama! And if Scott Peterson's mama had her way...Scottie would be on that golf course right now...maybe even dating your daughter.

It will never be my opinion that it is ever okay to lie for a killer. It is my opinion that I am highly frightened of any person who would admit such a thing. I am not afraid of the OPINION I am afraid of the PERSON. :yes:

ETA: EVEN if it was to save them from lethal injection. There are other ways to save your child from the death penalty. The process goes on for years and years. Lying is lying and you either think it is wrong or you do not. What do you do when they KILL again? These mothers should teach their "children" if they are going to commit murder, they should do it in a state without the death penalty. I guess the problem would be solved then and no mothers would have to lie for their "child." :dunno:

:cow:

 

[Turnadot]

I am not sure what people who would lie to get a person who had murdered someone else off free, are doing in a victim's advocate site? As I said, this type of talk triggers my abuse issues. Hypothetical or not, I could never imagine wanting anyone to go free of murder or to go free of any crime. I believe that two wrongs do not make a right, and to lie about something so serious as murder-to have to explain why that is wrong is as crazy as explaining to the one who has murdered why it is wrong. They just ain't gonna see what ya mean...

And, again: anyone who would admit they would lie in this manner-scares me. I would be afraid my "child" might come after me, how scary is someone who is not scared of someone they KNOW killed in cold blood? But it explains to me a lot of what is wrong in the world.

I am at this site because I would like to see the "child" who murdered Caylee another "child" is punished and I find it disgusting that her Mama is lying for her to set her free. The new question should be, "if you lie in court to set your child free and it works...what do you do the NEXT time they kill?" Is there a line? I know now why JVS has gotten away with the murder of NH, and not really suffering as others would for the death of SF: cause of his mama! And if Scott Peterson's mama had her way...Scottie would be on that golf course right now...maybe even dating your daughter.

It will never be my opinion that it is ever okay to lie for a killer. It is my opinion that I am highly frightened of any person who would admit such a thing. I am not afraid of the OPINION I am afraid of the PERSON. :yes:

:cow:

I would lie to keep my son from dying via lethal injection; not so he could go free. I've said that several times now as plainly as I can.

 

[2goldfish]

Thank you to everyone that supported my long winded post from last night... This subject has been weighing heavily on my mind... There are just too many scenarios and variables to know what I (or anyone else) would do.

Are there any instances where I would lie to benefit my son? I'd be lying if I said there aren't... Do I teach him right from wrong (including not to lie)? Of course... Do I call him out when I think he may be embellishing the truth? Of course... (note: in 14 yrs I have NEVER once caught him in a lie, it's just not in his nature.)

One of my most shameful parenting mistakes was to not believe something my son claimed for 6 years. It was something that was not in anyway his fault... but for all intents and purposes I'd labeled him an outright liar over the topic.

At his 11 yr check up I exasperatedly asked the nurse to test him for colorblindness during his vision screening so that "we could once and for all put his "self diagnosis" to rest because I was tired of hearing it".....

Did I know there was a chance he could be colorblind? Yes, because my brother is. I randomly "tested" him often by using a bag of colored balloons and by pointing at things. He always got it right... the evidence was clear, my mind was made up, he was absolutely not color blind.

AND of course the nurse tells me... he is absolutely color blind and not just a little but ALOT! The first words out of his mouth will forever be sealed in my memory... choking back tears; "Mom, will you believe me now?".... I was stunned!

I asked him why he always got the colors right and with tears coming closer to the surface of his beautiful blue eyes he said, "because when I was little I got the crayons wrong so many times I had to memorize them".... Even with a medical diagnosis I was still in disbelief and when we left the office I continued to test him while driving... and for the first time I really listened to him and it made sense.

If I can be so completely wrong about something so innocent and judge my son for it.... I would be VERY hesitant to definitively say whether I would or would not lie to save or to benefit him in any given situation... that doesn't mean that if he deserved punishment that I would not hold him accountable and accept the consequences... You just never know until you are standing right there in the middle of it.

:hug:

 

[Chiquita71]

I would lie to keep my son from dying via lethal injection; not so he could go free. I've said that several times now as plainly as I can.

RespectfullyQuoted

None of that would matter to his victim or the victim's family. I can't help but speak from a victim's perspective. From my perspective you are saying that if your child killed Caylee or any other innocent victim on this site, you would help to keep the killer from getting the punishment given by law. By a jury of his/her peers. All because they are YOUR child and you love them. Again, this is like explaining to some who has killed someone else why it was wrong. You either get it or you don't.

You have stated what you would do, you would lie. And as a victim's advocate, what is your opinion- is my personal nightmare. I assume you are also waiting for justice from the law for what Casey did to Caylee yet you dismiss those same laws when they pertain to you and yours. Again, you either understand having serious problems with that or you do not. It is not something that can be debated it is something in your heart and soul. :twocents:

ETA: And the truly loving brave mothers who have not lied for their child, have all my respect and admiration. Do they love their child any less? :no: Blessings to such amazing women. These are the ones who should be showered with sympathy and held up as heroes! :blowkiss: I would be willing to listen to the pleas of such a person, I would certainly if on the jury want to help and believe a person like that.

 

[Turnadot]

Nor have I. I believe everyone has the right to answer honestly without fear of retribution. Everyone's opinions are their own and should be respected as such. I will never attack someone for having a different opinion then mine.

Agreed.

OTOH, I'm not going to go out of my way to explain my personal feelings, either; he's my son and I would lie to save him from the death penalty. End of story. I don't expect others to go out of their way either. But I understand how my position can be upsetting to people. Anywho, I won't get personal with someone who sees things differently and attack them. That makes discussions take a nose dive real fast, lol.

I'm sure all of us do the best we can for our children, and I hope none of us have to ever face such a horrible situation. We all muddle along with our kids, loving them and doing the best we can.

For me, this discussion has run its course. I've pretty much said the same thing several different ways, but it was interesting to read everyone's viewpoints, and I appreciate the discussion and sharing.

 

[GennyMac]

I was so intrigued with this question I had hubby sit down and discuss at great length what each of us believed would be how we 'might' react. I'll preface this by saying that I doubt any of us really knows what we would or would not do given a life threatening issue facing one of our children like this.

After quite a few hypotheticals, we came to the joint conclusion that DH would be the one to remind me if there is nothing to hide, there is no reason to alter any facts.

We also came to the conclusion that believing in one's child does not equate to a willingness to eviscerate one's own ethics.

Having said that - we all know of situations where the 'system' has failed, innocent people have gone to prison or worse. I was just watching bits of a documentary about a series of 'child molestation' charges that were made in a small section of Bakersfield CA - which actually turned into 'mass hysteria' and many of the children who testified to being molested recanted years later. Several men in the community went to prison, I believe some may still be incarcerated. It became such a witch hunt one family, who was babysitting for one of the accused children during court sessions, packed up their kids in the middle of the night and ran like hunted animals to the opposite side of the country. Just up and ran away because the scrutiny of the police scared the carp outta the mom and dad.

Now that nightmare would definitely cause me to be willing to do serious damage to my own ethics - here's the dilemma - when do you know what is happening to you? When it's too late or in the middle of the nightmare?

Just food for thought.

 

[Turnadot]

RespectfullyQuoted

None of that would matter to his victim or the victim's family. I can't help but speak from a victim's perspective. From my perspective you are saying that if your child killed Caylee or any other innocent victim on this site, you would help to keep the killer from getting the punishment given by law. By a jury of his/her peers. All because they are YOUR child and you love them. Again, this is like explaining to some who has killed someone else why it was wrong. You either get it or you don't.

You have stated what you would do, you would lie. And as a victim's advocate, what is your opinion- is my personal nightmare. I assume you are also waiting for justice from the law for what Casey did to Caylee yet you dismiss those same laws when they pertain to you and yours. Again, you either understand having serious problems with that or you do not. It is not something that can be debated it is something in your heart and soul. :twocents:

ETA: And the truly loving brave mothers who have not lied for their child, have all my respect and admiration. Do they love their child any less? :no: Blessings to such amazing women. These are the ones who should be showered with sympathy and held up as heroes! :blowkiss: I would be willing to listen to the pleas of such a person, I would certainly if on the jury want to help and believe a person like that.

With respect, I'm leaving this discussion, and I don't see how addressing this post will help foster positive dialogue between us. I hope you have a lovely day/evening, and thank you for engaging me in this thread.

 

[Chiquita71]

I was so intrigued with this question I had hubby sit down and discuss at great length what each of us believed would be how we 'might' react. I'll preface this by saying that I doubt any of us really knows what we would or would not do given a life threatening issue facing one of our children like this.

After quite a few hypotheticals, we came to the joint conclusion that DH would be the one to remind me if there is nothing to hide, there is no reason to alter any facts.

We also came to the conclusion that believing in one's child does not equate to a willingness to eviscerate one's own ethics.

Having said that - we all know of situations where the 'system' has failed, innocent people have gone to prison or worse. I was just watching bits of a documentary about a series of 'child molestation' charges that were made in a small section of Bakersfield CA - which actually turned into 'mass hysteria' and many of the children who testified to being molested recanted years later. Several men in the community went to prison, I believe some may still be incarcerated. It became such a witch hunt one family, who was babysitting for one of the accused children during court sessions, packed up their kids in the middle of the night and ran like hunted animals to the opposite side of the country. Just up and ran away because the scrutiny of the police scared the carp outta the mom and dad.

Now that nightmare would definitely cause me to be willing to do serious damage to my own ethics - here's the dilemma - when do you know what is happening to you? When it's too late or in the middle of the nightmare?

Just food for thought.

GennyMac RespectfullyQuoted

I am only responding to clarify my position. I am not speaking of a person who is innocent. My answers to the question posed come from my assumption we are speaking of knowing that your "child" is guilty.

An innocent person is a victim. And you wouldn't have to lie for an innocent person.

I understand you were offering a perspective and I am in not responding to that in any way to say what you post is not true or to argue. I used your post to clear any miscommunication on my part. I would support 100% an innocent person accused of what they did not do-I support the innocent. I would however, not lie to save them. Because I do not believe that one would have to lie to prove innocence. In fact, if I was caught lying I would lose my credibility and what good would I be to the innocent person then?

If you love someone, anyone; you tell the truth.

:cow:

 

[absolut_alexis]

It is such a hard question. Once you lie, you endanger your credibility. I understand the temptation to lie, but if I were in that position, I wouldn't want to rob myself of the opportunity to later help our children by telling the truth. Does that make sense?

Everything, my ethics, my religion, my logic, my instinct, tells me that
deception is not a solution.The best solution is to stay as quiet as possible until an honorable opportunity to help my child arises.

 

[amickeyfan]

I would never lie on the stand for my child for anything! I would not want to see them get the death penalty, so I may not be a good witness. I may just "not know" anything they asked of me, but consistently not know anything, not changing my story. I would not outright lie as her mother & brother have just done. I would want my child to be held accountable for their actions, but as I said, not death. If the death penalty was not up there, my memory would serve me very well. Yes, I know to answer "I don't know or don't remember" is a lie, but it isn't making up a story to cover up for them. I just could not bring myself to place the needled into my child's arm. "Yes, I saw my child strangle my grandchild" ...that I could not do... or " I searched for the Chloroform"...that I would not do.. do you get what I'm saying about not lying???

I could not even imagine being in her parents shoes. I would not ever want to be either.

Now if it were... did you see your child drive with that bottle of beer in her hands.. "YES SIR, I sure did" would be my answer

 

[wyome]

I think the whole purpose of the question was in direct relation to the Casey Anthony case and her parents.

Casey's parents do NOT BELIEVE THAT SHE WAS MURDERED IN COLD BLOOD. They believe that it was an accident, for which their daughter should not be put to death for. There is a HUGE different between this scenario and the Dahmer case where several bodies are found severed, boiled and stored in barrels.