Wrongful Death Suit filed Nov. 13, 2013 in California

[time]

I do too. She also spent considerable energy, time and money accusing Rebecca of murdering her son. Not "admirable" by any stretch, in my opinion.

I think she used Maxie's house for her own gain. Did we ever find a nonprofit filing for the amount made? Where did any money collected go? This seemed to provide Dina a career avenue also and to maintain a society page status (for a while)... it also gave her a talking point in every interview and link to the website for funding.

Here are Maxies House 990 forms for 2012

MAXIES HOUSE

AZ

2012

990EZ

Pages 16

Assets: $49,798.00

EIN 45-5639906

http://990s.foundationcenter.org/990_pdf_archive/455/455639906/455639906_201212_990EZ.pdf

 

[Gilgamesh]

While I AM sympathetic to anyone who loses a child ( including the Zahaus and the Shacknais), I do believe that Dina was creating a media blitz to create sympathy in case she went to trial. What mother wouldn't sympathize with wanting to kill the killer of her child? ( not that there was truth to that accusation, mind you)
MOO

 

[LuckyLucy2]

Wow, I feel like the belle of the ball! So many posts to answer this morning, I'll try to answer them all in one:

I find the Zahaus' media blitz to create sympathy [modsnip] to be much more disturbing. The day after Rebecca was found and they spoke to the media they had nothing but good things to say about Jonah Shacknai.

Enter Anne Bremner. Two days after after Rebecca killed herself and suddenly Mary Zahau says to the media "She would not commit suicide", before an investigation had even been done - that says everything to me.

Then the numerous trashy tabloid Radar Online articles, and the nasty things said about two grieving parents. The Highlight Hollywood fake stories that were written and printed; the fake poem by Rebecca's nephew and the fake song by Eminem. The disgusting sweeps week exhumation of Rebecca's body on Dr. Phil. The smaltzy "commercial" they had made to ask for money and ask the public for her in solving Rebecca's "murder. It goes on and on and on.

[modsnip]

Mary seems to be asking the public for money every few months. Its about that time, bet she'll be back on next week.

Dina never accused Rebecca of murdering Max and did not go to the media until a year after his death. She used the word homicide, and left open the possibility that whatever happened was accidental but that someone else was involved. And since only Rebecca and her sister were there…well, you do the math. And I agree with Dina. Max's accident did not go down the way Rebecca said it did. But since she took her own life less than 40 hours after Max's accident, guess we will never know what really happened.

[modsnip]

 

[Salem]

The knots weren't any type of knot at all. Not nautical knots, not shear lash knots. Just randomly tied. No Boy Scout or Boat Captain tied the knots - just Rebecca.

You have a link for this, please? If not, please state it as an opinion and not a fact, thanks.

Salem

 

[LuckyLucy2]

You have a link for this, please? If not, please state it as an opinion and not a fact, thanks.

Salem

Here are the links:

From the press conference (available on WS),

Sgt. Dave Nemeth - "I like to point out that the crime lab personnel who do this analysis focused very strongly on areas that would've had to be manipulated to accomplish tying a person up in the manner in which we found her. We can also say that the knots, the slip knots that were on the feet, the wrists, and around the neck were all the same type."

REPORTER
And the knots that were on her hands seem pretty complicated. Was that an expert knot, the kind of knot you would need experience?

"As best we can tell there was nothing, no particular expertise, required. You couldn't contribute it to a known knot used in commercial industry. In all honesty if Rebecca were to tie it a second time she would probably have difficulty reproducing it. "

From http://www.sdsheriff.net/coronado/faq.html

How did she learn these complex knots?

We don’t believe she did. These knots were not as complex as they have been made out to be, which is what we discovered when we attempted to recreate the knots on Rebecca’s wrists. Simply stated, this is one of those questions which will most likely never be answered with any certainty.

 

[time]

Here is a forensic knot expert Lyndsey Philpott commenting on this case

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQu62Lz1tJ8

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1109/08/ddhln.01.html

PINSKY: How did Rebecca bind both her hands and feet and throw herself off the balcony?

Now, we saw that video there where it looks -- that, to me, looks difficult. But I`ve got a forensic specialist here, Lyndsey Philpott, a knotting expert who worked on the JonBenet Ramsey case.

I`m actually really grateful you`re here, because if it`s possible, show me how. Somebody who had no experience with rope, looking at that video, it seems extraordinary to think that somebody in an altered state perhaps could sit down, never having worked with a rope before, and bind themselves, and do it the way we saw in that video.

LYNDSEY PHILPOTT, FORENSIC KNOTTING EXPERT: It`s a very curious thing to be able to tie yourself in knots. And seeing the way in which the video displayed it, you first of all have to find the halfway point on the line, and then put it over yourself like this.

PINSKY: How would you know to do that? I would not know to do that unless I were a sailor from the 17th century or something. And I`m a young woman in distress. I`m going to think to do that?

PHILPOTT: I really don`t think that anybody could think to do that.

PINSKY: OK.

PHILPOTT: And it`s very difficult for me even as an expert to be able to manipulate these lines in some way so that I can -- you can see it.

PINSKY: And she actually did it behind her back. Then she got it -- but then --

PHILPOTT: And then to take them off there and put them behind her back would be tantamount to contortionist, because you then have to try to figure out where things are going and how they`re going to get there.

And what would be the purpose? What would be the purpose in showing that your hands are tied behind your back? After all is said and done, if you`re going to be committing suicide, aren`t you mainly concerned with asphyxiating or breaking your own neck as a result of that?

PINSKY: And then the feet too were bound, I guess, although I haven`t seen any video on what kind of binding she allegedly did there. That, too, seems very, very bizarre.

PHILPOTT: I haven`t seen anything which indicates the kind of binding around her wrists, nor have I seen anything indicating the kind of knot around her ankles.

PINSKY: And by the way, how about having the knowledge to be able to have the right kind of -- I wouldn`t know what kind of knot to put around a bed to make sure I wouldn`t just fall to the ground. I mean, isn`t even that in itself a little challenging?

PHILPOTT: That is challenging.

PINSKY: And how about the noose? I don`t know how to tie -- how would she (ph) know how to tie a noose?

PHILPOTT: There`s a number of different ways of tying a noose. You can tie one by doing this. But as you can see, if you put the end in the wrong place, that will simply come apart and you`ll be left with nothing.

You have to put it into the right place, and you have to know to put it into the right place so that it would actually stay in position. And then once it does, it`s going to tighten up around the bed post.

Most people will tie lots of knots. If they`re going to tie anything at all, they`ll tie lots of knots.

PINSKY: That makes sense to me. That makes sense to me.

PHILPOTT: They`ll tie lots of the long kind. And she wasn`t doing that.

PINSKY: And that`s not what she was doing, yes.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1109/08/ddhln.01.html

 

[LuckyLucy2]

Philpott never saw the actual knots. So how can he comment as an "expert" on something he hasn't seen?

 

[IQuestion]

Here are the links:

From the press conference (available on WS),

Sgt. Dave Nemeth - "I like to point out that the crime lab personnel who do this analysis focused very strongly on areas that would've had to be manipulated to accomplish tying a person up in the manner in which we found her. We can also say that the knots, the slip knots that were on the feet, the wrists, and around the neck were all the same type."

REPORTER
And the knots that were on her hands seem pretty complicated. Was that an expert knot, the kind of knot you would need experience?

"As best we can tell there was nothing, no particular expertise, required. You couldn't contribute it to a known knot used in commercial industry. In all honesty if Rebecca were to tie it a second time she would probably have difficulty reproducing it. "

From http://www.sdsheriff.net/coronado/faq.html

How did she learn these complex knots?

We don’t believe she did. These knots were not as complex as they have been made out to be, which is what we discovered when we attempted to recreate the knots on Rebecca’s wrists. Simply stated, this is one of those questions which will most likely never be answered with any certainty.

Here are the links:

From the press conference (available on WS),

Sgt. Dave Nemeth - "I like to point out that the crime lab personnel who do this analysis focused very strongly on areas that would've had to be manipulated to accomplish tying a person up in the manner in which we found her. We can also say that the knots, the slip knots that were on the feet, the wrists, and around the neck were all the same type."

REPORTER
And the knots that were on her hands seem pretty complicated. Was that an expert knot, the kind of knot you would need experience?

"As best we can tell there was nothing, no particular expertise, required. You couldn't contribute it to a known knot used in commercial industry. In all honesty if Rebecca were to tie it a second time she would probably have difficulty reproducing it. "
If they were so simple, why would she have a difficult time reproducing it??? Why did he keep using the words "painstaking.?"
From http://www.sdsheriff.net/coronado/faq.html

How did she learn these complex knots?

We don’t believe she did. These knots were not as complex as they have been made out to be, which is what we discovered when we attempted to recreate the knots on Rebecca’s wrists. Simply stated, this is one of those questions which will most likely never be answered with any certainty.

LuLU2, I'm going to "hi-jack" part of your quotes above...which by the way are accurate and began at 32:00 minutes of the SDSO presser. (It is so ironic that I had just been transcribing everything Nemeth said, yesterday, so it is fresh in my mind.) How I read his comments and what I chose to highlight above, have the exact opposite interpretation, go figure.
At 34:48 of the presser Nemeth says, "We don't know what order things were done. The only person who can answer that is unfortunately deceased. Based on evidence we have, reports received in the COURSE OF THIS INVESTIGATION...THIS IS THE BEST CONCLUSION. (Of course I am thinking, did this guy just say, "this is the best conclusion."???)
I'll summarize other statements he made, which basically said....THIS IS OUR BEST GUESS....
"She located a rope, possibly from the garage." (Did he just say possibly?)
"The homeowner wasn't sure if there was a rope in that location." ( Did he just say the owner of the house wasn't sure if he even had a rope? Then wouldn't it be possible the rope was brought from different household)
"But it's possible she removed her clothing" (Good grief, is this guy for real...hmmm nude woman and he thinks it is possible she removed her clothing? So I guess it might also be possible someone else removed her clothing?....after all in this high tech investigation, let's use words like POSSIBLE
",Or was already unclothed perhaps coming out of the shower." (About this time I am really thinking this guy is a joke...POSSIBLY?, POSSIBLE?, OR?, PERHAPS?... and that was just in regards to the nudity issue & rope.)

I transcribed statements he made that just made my hair stand on end.....but I'll curtail my posting for awhile. I think I have made my point....so much of the information has been left to "interpretation" and very, very, very few facts. Why would anyone want to withhold, facts, photos, belongings, independent inspections, 2nd autopsy, personal property of the deceased,
access, records, phone records, evidence etc....???
Ya' know, SDSO brought this criticism upon themselves.

 

[LuckyLucy2]

When someone commits suicide and they are alone, the police do not have a crystal ball that they can look in to see what happened. To think that they can know every move of a suicidal person alone in a house is simply unrealistic, in my opinion. That's why DNA and fingerprints - true physical evidence - is what tells the true story.

BTW, I did not see the word "painstaking" anywhere in that quote...

 

[IQuestion]

When someone commits suicide and they are alone, the police do not have a crystal ball that they can look in to see what happened. To think that they can know every move of a suicidal person alone in a house is simply unrealistic, in my opinion. That's why DNA and fingerprints - true physical evidence - is what tells the true story.

BTW, I did not see the word "painstaking" anywhere in that quote...

LULU2, Dave Nemeth used the words "painstaking", when he described the video presentation of the rope tying...he used the word "twice" as I recall. (I did not type all of the sentences.... but you can listen/watch the video...his part begins 32:00 minutes into the interview)
Again, we have two sides of the same mirror.....I distrust SDSO immensely, and you think they are "spot on." (Or do you?) Do you believe the accident scenario, "as presented" too?

 

[time]

Philpott never saw the actual knots. So how can he comment as an "expert" on something he hasn't seen?

There are photos of the knots, but wasn't he watching the SDSO woman doing the reenactment, are you saying the reenactment wasn't the same knots? Also, in the youtube wasn't he, himself, doing a recreation of the wrist knots?

 

[LuckyLucy2]

LULU2, Dave Nemeth used the words "painstaking", when he described the video presentation of the rope tying...he used the word "twice" as I recall. (I did not type all of the sentences.... but you can listen/watch the video...his part begins 32:00 minutes into the interview)
Again, we have two sides of the same mirror.....I distrust SDSO immensely, and you think they are "spot on." (Or do you?) Do you believe the accident scenario, "as presented" too?

I do trust the SDSO in this case and believe they got it right. SDSO did not investigate Max's accident - the Coronado Police did. Well, IMO, they really didn't investigate it, just took Rebecca's word for it. It was the doctor at Rady's that felt something was not right and then called Child Protective Services. Sadly, Rebecca took her life before an investigation could be conducted.

 

[LuckyLucy2]

There are photos of the knots, but wasn't he watching the SDSO woman doing the reenactment, are you saying the reenactment wasn't the same knots? Also, in the youtube wasn't he, himself, doing a recreation of the wrist knots?

I'm saying he didn't see the actual knots, while they were tied on Rebecca. The police DID.

 

[inthedark14]

I do trust the SDSO in this case and believe they got it right. SDSO did not investigate Max's accident - the Coronado Police did. Well, IMO, they really didn't investigate it, just took Rebecca's word for it. It was the doctor at Rady's that felt something was not right and then called Child Protective Services. Sadly, Rebecca took her life before an investigation could be conducted.

Just to be clear, it is your belief that RZ's death was investigated properly by SDSO and that MS's death was not investigated well or at all by CPD? Also that due to RZ's death an investigation of MS's death could not be completed by Child Protective Services? That seems really strange to me, even if the perpetrator of a crime is deceased, LE and other agencies don't just say "well they're dead, so no need to work this case or find justice for the person they committed a crime against"?

Also if you can please kindly give a link to back up that statement that CPS wanted to do an investigation, but couldn't because RZ died that would be very helpful. TIA.

ALWAYS MOO

 

[inthedark14]

I'm saying he didn't see the actual knots, while they were tied on Rebecca. The police DID.

Well LE did see them, but not until after AS cut her down and loosened the bindings on her wrists. hdear:

ALWAYS MOO

 

[coastal]

You have a link for this, please? If not, please state it as an opinion and not a fact, thanks.

Salem

Hi Salem! :seeya:It's nice to see you!

 

[inthedark14]

Hi there...my responses are in blue

Wow, I feel like the belle of the ball! So many posts to answer this morning, I'll try to answer them all in one:

I find the Zahaus' media blitz to create sympathy [modsnip] to be much more disturbing. The day after Rebecca was found and they spoke to the media they had nothing but good things to say about Jonah Shacknai.
I will confess that I do not remember interviews from the Z family the day after RZ died. Perhaps you could provide a link? I don't find what the Z family has had to do disturbing at all. They've had no choice but to make noise to get things accomplished. In fact, they are involved in a Federal Lawsuit against SDSO because they did not receive all of the evidence and personal property of their family member in a case that SDSO ruled a suicide. That is absolutely shocking.

Enter Anne Bremner. Two days after after Rebecca killed herself and suddenly Mary Zahau says to the media "She would not commit suicide", before an investigation had even been done - that says everything to me.
Again, I'd be interested in seeing links where MZ was not stating this? As for Anne Bremner, I'm on the fence about her too.

Then the numerous trashy tabloid Radar Online articles, and the nasty things said about two grieving parents. The Highlight Hollywood fake stories that were written and printed; the fake poem by Rebecca's nephew and the fake song by Eminem. The disgusting sweeps week exhumation of Rebecca's body on Dr. Phil. The smaltzy "commercial" they had made to ask for money and ask the public for her in solving Rebecca's "murder. It goes on and on and on.
If these things weren't to your taste that's ok, but DS went on Dr. Phil as well, while it may not have been "sweeps week" as you state above. IIRC the poem was written by RZ's brother. I'm lost about the Eminem song, seems like I remember something about it but all this time has gone by and I don't think it is something that was a big talking point. I do wonder how you feel about the commercial that was made for MAXIE'S House that used Adele's song? They were using that to raise funds for their cause, were they not?
[modsnip]

Mary seems to be asking the public for money every few months. Its about that time, bet she'll be back on next week.
I only seem to remember two public funding campaigns, one I remember for sure? Lots of people use crowd funding these days for many different causes, its' quite mainstream.

Dina never accused Rebecca of murdering Max and did not go to the media until a year after his death. She used the word homicide, and left open the possibility that whatever happened was accidental but that someone else was involved. And since only Rebecca and her sister were there…well, you do the math. And I agree with Dina. Max's accident did not go down the way Rebecca said it did. But since she took her own life less than 40 hours after Max's accident, guess we will never know what really happened.
This is semantics, and it's always been quite clear what DS' thoughts are on the subject. She is of course entitled to her opinion, just as everyone else is. It's actually sort of worse to hide the accusations leveled at a dead woman and her minor sister behind strategic words and vague theories.

[modsnip]

ALWAYS MOO

 

[DeDee]

There is the matter of RZ accessing her computer for Asian anime that seems to be lost here. That is as close to evidence of RZs knowledge of bondage as we are going to get, IMOO. However, that one detail speaks volumes when considering the rope and knots. To say RZ was not capable of tying knots cannot be proven since she was hanging out with a man who owned two rather nice boats/yachts. IIRC, the end of the rope had a yellow plastic handle attached and a label that declared the rope to be safe for using with water craft sports up to a 300# limit.

IMHO, I believe a nude RZ tied herself in a bondage position as a way of telling Jonah look, one last time, at what you are going to miss. At the same time, she was implicating others as best as she can without them being present to leave any of their DNA, hair, fingerprints, etc.

The rope and the knots thread:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-148939.html

moo and all that jazz

 

[inthedark14]

There is the matter of RZ accessing her computer for Asian anime that seems to be lost here. That is as close to evidence of RZs knowledge of bondage as we are going to get, IMOO. However, that one detail speaks volumes when considering the rope and knots. To say RZ was not capable of tying knots cannot be proven since she was hanging out with a man who owned two rather nice boats/yachts. IIRC, the end of the rope had a yellow plastic handle attached and a label that declared the rope to be safe for using with water craft sports up to a 300# limit.

IMHO, I believe a nude RZ tied herself in a bondage position as a way of telling Jonah look, one last time, at what you are going to miss. At the same time, she was implicating others as best as she can without them being present to leave any of their DNA, hair, fingerprints, etc.

The rope and the knots thread:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-148939.html

moo and all that jazz

Do you have a link that proves what time the anime was accessed and that it was in fact done by RZ? By all accounts RZ had a very busy day the day that she died, so I wonder when exactly she would have had the time to look up this anime? Is there proof that it was RZ specifically that originated the internet activity? Which computer in the spare room was used? Was it a mobile device? Any link that clarifies this would be appreciated, because I haven't seen one. TIA

If someone wants to discount the relationship that JS and RZ had, that's fine, but let's not over simplify things. RZ was not "hanging out" with JS. They were in a relationship, for more than two years. Do you as well have a link to show that the rope had the specifications that you have stated? That's rather specific information that I'm not aware is stated anywhere in MSM. A link would help clarify that. TIA

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, which is great. IMVHO I believe that at least one if not all of the people named as defendants in a lawsuit worked together to end RZ's life. It's also IMVHO that there has been an ongoing campaign since RZ was murdered (MOO) to discredit RZ, her character, her family and her relationship with JS. IMO it's a pathetic and rather obvious attempt to sling mud at a dead (and murdered IMO) woman and everything and anything to do with her.

The fact that there was no other DNA, fingerprints or hair other than RZ's is just another huge red flag. Just because someone cleans up a crime scene neatly doesn't mean that they are not guilty of the crime.

ALWAYS MOO

 

[LuckyLucy2]

DeDee, sorry for jumping in, but I have that link. The best information we have about the *advertiser censored* is:

Page 197, Ann Rule's book, Fatal Friends and Deadly Enemies:

"On July 13, Deputy Pearce examined a Hewlett-Packard laptop computer, whose only active user account was Rebecca Zahau, and an iMac computer whose single account user was Jonah Shacknai. Both of the computers were from the guest room/computer room with the balcony wihere Becky Zaau had allegedly hung herself."

Page 198, Ann Rule's book, Fatal Friends and Deadly Enemies:

"2. A review of the Internet history for Becky's computer during the last twenty four hours showed numerous searches and viewing of *advertiser censored*, including lesbian and anime *advertiser censored*."