[FONT=&]BANFIELD: Good evening. I`m Ashleigh Banfield. [/FONT]
[FONT=&]Welcome to the second hour of CRIME & JUSTICE. [/FONT]
[FONT=&]Rebecca Zahau died a gruesome death, no matter how you look at it. She was found hanging from the balcony of her millionaire boyfriend`s mansion. She [/FONT]
[FONT=&]was naked, bound, and gagged. The investigators looking at the case said it was suicide. Her family says she was killed. [/FONT]
[FONT=&]And tonight for the very first time, we are hearing from the man they say killed her. The brother of Rebecca`s boyfriend, the only other person on [/FONT]
[FONT=&]the property that summer morning, the man who called the police after he says he found her body. [/FONT]
[FONT=&](BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)[/FONT]
[FONT=&]UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, a girl hung herself at the guest house of -- it`s Ocean Boulevard across from the hotel. Same place you came and got the kid [/FONT]
[FONT=&]yesterday. [/FONT]
[FONT=&]UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, sir, what is the address? [/FONT]
[FONT=&]UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m not sure. [/FONT]
[FONT=&]UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is she still alive? [/FONT]
[FONT=&]UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t know. [/FONT]
[FONT=&](END VIDEO CLIP)[/FONT]
[FONT=&]BANFIELD: That man was Adam Shacknai. And he is on trial now, effectively a civil case. He is taking the stand and he is saying that he had nothing [/FONT]
[FONT=&]to do with her death. [/FONT]
[FONT=&](BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)[/FONT]
[FONT=&]UNIDENTIFIED MALE: First question. Sir, did you ever do anything at any time to participate in the death of Rebecca Zahau? [/FONT]
[FONT=&]ADAM SHACKNAI, DEFENDANT: Most certainly not. [/FONT]
[FONT=&]UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sir, at any time on the evening of July 12th, 2011, or the early morning hours of July 13th, 2011, did you ever, at any time, [/FONT]
[FONT=&]leave the guest house and go into the main residence? [/FONT]
[FONT=&]UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Objection, leading. [/FONT]
[FONT=&]UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`ll allow it. [/FONT]
[FONT=&]SHACKNAI: I did not. [/FONT]
[FONT=&]UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sir, on any time at the evening of July 12, 2011, or the early morning hours of July 13th, 2011, did you participate ever in any [/FONT]
[FONT=&]act to harm or kill Rebecca Zahau? [/FONT]
[FONT=&]SHACKNAI: Most certainly not. [/FONT]
[FONT=&](END VIDEO CLIP)[/FONT]
[FONT=&]BANFIELD: I know that sure looks like a criminal trial, but let`s be real clear, it is not. He has not been charged with anything. He is being [/FONT]
[FONT=&]sued. There`s a big difference. [/FONT]
[FONT=&]Rebecca`s family says that Adam Shacknai had reason to kill their loved one. And they say it`s because she was babysitting his nephew. And that [/FONT]
[FONT=&]nephew took a fatal fall. But police say that`s the reason she actually may have committed suicide. That the guilt of the little boy`s injuries [/FONT]
[FONT=&]simply just got to her. [/FONT]
[FONT=&]The sheriff even ended up doing a demo to prove that she, herself, could have done this. She could have tied herself up. But Rebecca`s family saw [/FONT]
[FONT=&]those percent knots as a sign that Adam Shacknai was the one when tied them. They said the knots were nautical and they pointed to his career, [/FONT]
[FONT=&]because Adam Shacknai is a tug boat pilot. [/FONT]
[FONT=&]Shacknai says all he ever did in all of this was cut that body down when he spotted Rebecca hanging there and already dead. [/FONT]
[FONT=&]With me now, Miles Himmel, he is a reporter for KFMB AM 760. [/FONT]
[FONT=&]Miles, it just gets more and more intriguing as more people take the stand and more of the story comes out. But I was fascinated by the 911 call. [/FONT]
[FONT=&]Because the 911 call that Adam Shacknai meant ostensibly after he spotted Rebecca Zahau`s body hanging bound and gagged and naked, I imagine that it [/FONT]
[FONT=&]would be a terrified voice, a flustered voice. And I wanted to hear how it played in court. So before I ask you a question about it, let`s actually [/FONT]
[FONT=&]hear what it was like on that phone call. [/FONT]
[FONT=&](BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)[/FONT]
[FONT=&][19:06:00] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK, no problem. And she`s thirty, last time you saw her was last night? OK, all right, OK, they are coming. [/FONT]
[FONT=&]Lights and sirens, OK? Does she have any type of pulse when you brought her down? [/FONT]
[FONT=&]UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Does she have a what? [/FONT]
[FONT=&]UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did she have a pulse when you brought -- when you cut her down? [/FONT]
[FONT=&]UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, she`s got her fricking hands tied behind her back. [/FONT]
[FONT=&]UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They were, OK? [/FONT]
[FONT=&]UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jesus (bleep) -- [/FONT]
[FONT=&]UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK, listen to me. The paramedics are coming, OK. You got her on the ground? [/FONT]
[FONT=&]UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. I got her on the ground. [/FONT]
[FONT=&]UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. Was there anything in her mouth? [/FONT]
[FONT=&]UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, [/FONT]
[FONT=&]UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What was in her mouth? [/FONT]
[FONT=&]UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Some kind of gag in her mouth. [/FONT]
[FONT=&]UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. You took it out? [/FONT]
[FONT=&](END VIDEOTAPE)[/FONT]
[FONT=&]BANFIELD: Miles, that sounds like somebody who is pretty traumatized by what he is seeing. It doesn`t necessarily sound like a murderer who is [/FONT]
[FONT=&]faking it, although, listen, I have been mystified before by people`s demeanor in court. What did it seem like, his demeanor on the stand? What [/FONT]
[FONT=&]did it seem like on court? [/FONT]
[FONT=&]MILES HIMMEL, REPORTER FOR KFMB AM760: Yes, it was a wild day yesterday, Ashleigh. So here is how it started. Let me put you there. The Zahau [/FONT]
[FONT=&]family attorney, Keith Grier, first question he said, I`m going to start with an easy one, Adam. Tell me your age. And he looked right back at him [/FONT]
[FONT=&]and he said, they are all easy, and then he told him his age. [/FONT]
[FONT=&]And he said, OK, here we go. We are off on this. And so, he was very confident. He was well rehearsed, you know. I mean, the Shacknai attorney [/FONT]
[FONT=&]and their side had him very well-rehearsed and he knew what he was talking about throughout that. So there were no, you know, out of left field [/FONT]
[FONT=&]questions, no answers that got him out. He was very well rehearsed and disciplined. [/FONT]
[FONT=&]That 911 call, you know, the question that remains on the Zahau family side is was he performing CPR during it? Because if you listen, they had an [/FONT]
[FONT=&]audio expert listen to it and say he always had the phone up to his mouth, which means you wouldn`t be giving CPR with your phone to the mouth, but [/FONT]
[FONT=&]never once did he put that to the side. That`s a question that`s still remaining. [/FONT]
[FONT=&]BANFIELD: I`m glad you mentioned that. In fact on within the stand, he talked about getting a table and placing a table under her hanging body and [/FONT]
[FONT=&]getting up on the table and using a knife to cut down her body and then actually perform CPR. [/FONT]
[FONT=&]So let`s play that, actually. And you can actually hear him grunting. But I think you are right. If you listen with two different kind of [/FONT]
[FONT=&]perspectives, you might hear something different. Have a listen. [/FONT]
[FONT=&](BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)[/FONT]
[FONT=&]SHACKNAI: I cut her down, I had her in one harm and cut with the other. [/FONT]
[FONT=&]UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, so what are you doing now? [/FONT]
[FONT=&]SHACKNAI: If I had to speculate, I would say, it`s probably the sound of me cutting her down and at some point jumping off the table with her. [/FONT]
[FONT=&](END VIDEO CLIP)[/FONT]
[FONT=&]BANFIELD: So it was a little tricky to hear it, but there`s definitely some of that, the grunting that they played, a little clip. And then said [/FONT]
[FONT=&]to him on the stand, so what are you doing now? But are they really getting to that aspect of it, or are they getting more to the -- all the [/FONT]
[FONT=&]forensics of it. Are they drilling him on all of the forensics of it? [/FONT]
[FONT=&]HIMMEL: It`s a little of both, because, right, we have talked about it last week, that there`s no DNA. They have already done the DNA expert. [/FONT]
[FONT=&]There is no DNA of Adam Shacknai on Rebecca, in the room, anywhere in this. So you go, OK. Well then he must not have been there. But you go, hold [/FONT]
[FONT=&]on. There is no DNA when he says, he says by his own admission, he is cutting the rope down. He is performing CPR. I mean, anybody, you do that [/FONT]
[FONT=&]and there would be DNA all over the place especially when you ran in and see a body hanging there. So that certainly been a focal point as well. [/FONT]
[FONT=&]And then those knots that you talked about, those nautical knots, that was a big, big - I mean, they spent a couple hours on that yesterday, going [/FONT]
[FONT=&]over his time, Keith Greer, the Zahau attorney as well as the Shacknai attorney. [/FONT]
[FONT=&]BANFIELD: And again, to remind our viewers, the knots are critical here, because Adam Shacknai`s profession is tug boat pilot. Some say captain. [/FONT]
[FONT=&]He says pilot. And he is the head of the tug boat and one would think you would know a lot about nautical knots if you work on a tug boat. And he`s [/FONT]
[FONT=&]the head of the tug boat and one would think you would know a lot about nautical knots if you work on a tug boat. And he testified about how much [/FONT]
[FONT=&]difficulty he had getting his hands under the ropes to get a pulse. And that he may have actually loosened the ropes when he did it. This after [/FONT]
[FONT=&]saying that he was unaware of any of those specialized nautical knots that the family alleges that only a tug boat captain or somebody with that kind [/FONT]
[FONT=&]of knowledge would know how to tie. Here he is. Listen to him. [/FONT]
[FONT=&](BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)[/FONT]
[FONT=&][19:10:27] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You tried to put your hands in, but the ropes were so tight, you couldn`t easily get your hands in to test her [/FONT]
[FONT=&]pulse, correct? [/FONT]
[FONT=&]SHACKNAI: That is correct. [/FONT]
[FONT=&]UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So then you loosened the ropes around her wrists? [/FONT]
[FONT=&]SHACKNAI: I didn`t really loosen the ropes, I just tried to sort of pry under them at the time, talking to the police. That is what I had. That [/FONT]
[FONT=&]was my best description at the time. [/FONT]
[FONT=&](END VIDEO CLIP)[/FONT]
[FONT=&]BANFIELD: So, Miles, it`s critical, as well, to know what his behavior was after allegedly discovering the body. He went to the police station. He [/FONT]
[FONT=&]gave an interview. He gave his fingerprints and had no lawyer. Was he able to really sort of hammer that down in front of the jury? Or were they [/FONT]
[FONT=&]able to poke holes in his of his behavior after the fact? [/FONT]
[FONT=&]HIMMEL: He has been pretty transparent in saying, hey, listen, I haven`t done anything wrong. I was with everybody, I went there, I answered all [/FONT]
[FONT=&]the questions, I immediately called 911. So, like I say, he was pretty well rehearsed. I just want to go back to the knots there, Ashleigh, you [/FONT]
[FONT=&]know. [/FONT]
[FONT=&]That was a very interesting point, yesterday. Because he said, he even said that he tried to loosen them, because they were tight knots. And when [/FONT]
[FONT=&]they had that FBI person come in and show, hey, look it, this is how Rebecca could have tied herself and then bound herself behind her back, [/FONT]
[FONT=&]they were very loose. And she did it, but they were loose knots and said, hey, look it, you can make them loose like this. And so, he go, well, if [/FONT]
[FONT=&]they are tight like that, you couldn`t do that. You couldn`t put them behind the back. They would have to be loose, because they would be behind [/FONT]
[FONT=&]your back. So that was a very interesting point. [/FONT]
[FONT=&]BANFIELD: Yes, I`m still not 100 percent sure she did this to herself. I`m not 100 percent sure Adam did it, either. I don`t know how much anyone [/FONT]
[FONT=&]has ever pointing to anyone else. But given that this is a wrongful death suit against Adam and others, I`m sure we`re not going to hear much about [/FONT]
[FONT=&]any other potential suspects. [/FONT]
[FONT=&]But let me do this, if I can. Stand by, if you will, Miles. I want to bring in Rebecca Zahau`s sister, Mary. Mary Zahau-Loehner joins me now. [/FONT]
[FONT=&]Mary, thanks so much for being here. I know this cannot be easy to not only go through day after day of the civil trial, but then to go on [/FONT]
[FONT=&]television and talk about this case. I want to ask you if you -- if you can, how did you feel about that testimony, Adam`s testimony on the stand. [/FONT]
[FONT=&]MARY ZAHAU-LEOHNER, REBECA ZAHAU`S SISTER: It was very frustrating for me sitting there, knowing that there are lies that they are telling on the [/FONT]
[FONT=&]stand and I can`t object and I can`t interfere and say what I have seen and what I have heard. It is pretty obvious that he is detached, cold, and [/FONT]
[FONT=&]calculated. They have rehearsed the answers that they have said for days. It`s pretty clear. [/FONT]
[FONT=&]BANFIELD: So can I ask you a little bit about the possibility that maybe it was someone else. If it wasn`t suicide, and I know your family has said [/FONT]
[FONT=&]she was just not in that state of mind and that she was not the kind of person that Rebecca was. What about the possibility of someone else? Has [/FONT]
[FONT=&]that ever crossed your investigator`s radar? [/FONT]
[FONT=&]ZAHAU-LEOHNER: No. Because in the universe of people, only Rebecca Zahau and Adam Shacknai was in that house. [/FONT]
[FONT=&]BANFIELD: But the unusual part of that is that Adam`s DNA, Adam`s footprints are nowhere near that room that included the balcony, where your [/FONT]
[FONT=&]sister was found hanging. So if his DNA wasn`t there, is it as plausible to suggest his missing DNA is as significant as to say another missing [/FONT]
[FONT=&]perpetrator`s missing DNA? [/FONT]
[FONT=&]ZAHAU-LEOHNER: Or it also could indicate that he wiped down the scene and he wore gloves? [/FONT]
[FONT=&]BANFIELD: So then, the other question I have, and of course, I have to ask, because it`s a case, it is a civil case, the investigators have said [/FONT]
[FONT=&]there were notes on your sister`s phone, essentially suggesting she was upset about her boyfriend`s older children, that they disrespected her, [/FONT]
[FONT=&]that she was hated by his ex-wives, that she was unhappy because of these things. That she wasn`t sleeping a lot for the first time in her life, [/FONT]
[FONT=&]that her mind was racing, and that quote "no amount of money was worth what I`m going through." [/FONT]
[FONT=&]Were any of these kinds of notes a possible impetus for her to potentially take her own life? [/FONT]
[FONT=&]ZAHAU-LEOHNER: Absolutely not. First of all, nobody knows when those notes were written. It`s estimated that it was probably written several [/FONT]
[FONT=&]months, if not more, like six months or earlier than July 13th. And the other thing that I want everybody to know is that my sister writes down -- [/FONT]
[FONT=&]that`s her coping mechanism. She writes down a journal. She writes down her thoughts and her feelings. [/FONT]
[FONT=&]Never in her history or in her past is there any indication of self-harm. The sheriff`s department did not even bother right to look into her past or [/FONT]
[FONT=&]trying to find out if she had seen a therapist or if she has talked to anybody. And if she did, what was she telling these people? They did not [/FONT]
[FONT=&]even try to find out who she really was. They wanted to look at this two piece of journal entries and said, there you go. She committed suicide. [/FONT]
[FONT=&][19:15:46] BANFIELD: Well, listen, Mary, I know that this is difficult. And I appreciate you speaking to us in such a candid manner, when you are [/FONT]
[FONT=&]going through such a family tragedy. I`m very thankful to you. And I`m going to continue looking at this case. I`ll be fascinated to see the [/FONT]
[FONT=&]outcome. [/FONT]
[FONT=&]My great appreciation to you and also to Miles Himmel. [/FONT]
[FONT=&]I do want to say the family of Rebecca Zahau has established a page to help out with the expenses of filing this civil case. And if you [/FONT]
[FONT=&]would like to contribute, you can go to justice for Rebecca Zahau.
http://edition.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1803/20/ptab.01.html
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