Wrongful death trial begins. Trial coverage and discussion #2

[Jessica2012]

I believe it was determined to be an automatic computer cookie update on the computer in the residence. Adam did admit to viewing *advertiser censored* in the guest residence on the night Rebecca was hanged.

Too many things to remember.

The automatic update was logged as after Rebecca’s death, and IIRC, about 3 am that Wednesday morning. It was not the “Asian, bondage *advertiser censored*” that Greer stated was watched Monday evening on Rebecca’s computer.

 

[Jade]

Not liking Adam, thinking he had too much time off, thinking he is arrogant, thinking all manner of negativity against him...is just proof of animosity here...it’s not proof of murder that can be presented or relied on in court.

Oversimplification of the case against AS

Defense attorneys are very sensitive to demeanor they know it can influence a jury’s decision.

I have no animosity. The guy is in court being accused of murder I’m not kicking puppies.

I’m just not fooled by him.

*No one said he had too much time off. It was a linked factual correction that he enjoys copious free time contrary to another post that said he didn't.

 

[Imp]

Hello, to the best of my recollection, during the testimony of the lead detective officer a door was shown ( the balcony door, left side) It showed the area had been fingerprinted, there was a lot of black dust. There was however, no fingerprint dust on the handle and a larger area radiating above and below the handle, it was clean. During questioning the witness said it was clean because the fingerprint dust had ‘nothing to attach to’.

The area was quite defined, dirty above and below the ‘clean’ area, in a kind of ‘sweeping’ pattern ( about 5 or 6 inches below the handle and the same above) It looked very obviously to me like someone had wiped the handle, and above and below ( it was a sideways V shape around the handle if that makes sense?) This is why it was shown I expect, it certainly stuck in my mind as very strange and first impression was it had been wiped...

If you look at the door in the court with all the black dust on it, you can see that black dust sticks like glue. It’s shuffled about, covered, uncovered moved, rubbed against...the black powder is still very much in situation. The photos of the door were take very close to the fingerprinting, this is something else I considered when hearing the testimony and seeing the door.

Hope this is helpful

Thanks for explaining this again, Lezah. When you posted it about it the first time, I was stunned. Still stunned. Clear wipe marks around the door handle that are clearly obvious in the photograph, but ... 'nothing to see here' per SDSO.

 

[Imp]

Hello, to the best of my recollection, during the testimony of the lead detective officer a door was shown ( the balcony door, left side) It showed the area had been fingerprinted, there was a lot of black dust. There was however, no fingerprint dust on the handle and a larger area radiating above and below the handle, it was clean. During questioning the witness said it was clean because the fingerprint dust had ‘nothing to attach to’.

The area was quite defined, dirty above and below the ‘clean’ area, in a kind of ‘sweeping’ pattern ( about 5 or 6 inches below the handle and the same above) It looked very obviously to me like someone had wiped the handle, and above and below ( it was a sideways V shape around the handle if that makes sense?) This is why it was shown I expect, it certainly stuck in my mind as very strange and first impression was it had been wiped...

If you look at the door in the court with all the black dust on it, you can see that black dust sticks like glue. It’s shuffled about, covered, uncovered moved, rubbed against...the black powder is still very much in situation. The photos of the door were take very close to the fingerprinting, this is something else I considered when hearing the testimony and seeing the door.

Hope this is helpful

Thanks for explaining this again, Lezah. When you posted about it the first time, I was stunned. Still stunned. Clear wipe marks around the door handle that are clearly obvious in the photograph, but ... 'nothing to see here' per SDSO.

 

[Jessica2012]

I think the reason that if was difficult for people to post when they were on the side of the law was because they were blantantly, purposely vile and hateful. I'm not including you and the few others who support suicide and aren't hateful. You know who I mean, they were so completely out of line as to display mental illness. People on murder side got nasty back also, but nowhere near the level of name calling, racial slurs and making fun of makeup style. that was some bad time and i'm sure, or at least I hope, no one has treated you in this manner.

People are free to read the threads and draw their own conclusions about which side was “blantantly, purposely vile and hateful”. Even though many of the threads have been cleaned up, there are plenty left that will let readers make up their own minds about that.

 

[Verboten]

From his Colonel Klink-style testimony, it's clear you don't need to know much to be a tugboat captain, including how to identify and tie nautical knots.

Knots? What are knots?

 

[stmarysmead]

Why are RZ’s fingerprints on the doors, paint tube, bed etc. and not AS? The explanation I keep reading is...he wiped them down. How did he wipe his prints off and not hers?

 

[Jessica2012]

I don't think anyone is suggesting his amount of time off or his arrogance is proof of his civil responsibility for her death. My comment about his time off is in direct response to another user who painted him as angelic and stated he had no time in life to get in trouble. That's just patently false.

I stated he had been very busy, not only working, but completing his Undergraduate degree in American Literature and studying for and passing two of the hardest maritime tests there are.

I also said that Jonah “fixing” criminal things Adam had done in the past is rampant speculation, not based on fact in any way, shape, or form. Nothing in Adam’s past indicates he has criminal tendencies.

 

[Mica]

Why are RZ’s fingerprints on the doors, paint tube, bed etc. and not AS? The explanation I keep reading is...he wiped them down. How did he wipe his prints off and not hers?

Perhaps he wore gloves, one fell off at some point, and he wiped those areas down?

 

[stmarysmead]

I stated he had been very busy, not only working, but completing his Undergraduate degree in American Literature and studying for and passing two of the hardest maritime tests there are.

I also said that Jonah “fixing” criminal things Adam had done in the past is rampant speculation, not based on fact in any way, shape, or form. Nothing in Adam’s past indicates he has criminal tendencies.

Speculation based on negative emotion. There’s no evidence that Jonah ever “fixed” anything, including the decision in investigative case. I’m surprised such undocumented speculation is allowed.

 

[stmarysmead]

Perhaps he wore gloves, one fell off at some point, and he wiped those areas down?

He’s involved in a violent assault and yet remembers what areas to go back and wipe.

There’s just no evidence of Adam there.None. That makes this entire civil case just unsupported theory. RZ May have been murdered...by a burgular, a vagrant, anybody...but there’s “no evidence”, as the RZ attorney admits to Tricia...just an interpretation of the words on the door.

Weak case.

 

[Jessica2012]

Why no bruises under her arms, or on her side, where he would have to grip her in order to toss her body over the railing?

And how did he throw her 105-pd dead weight over without stepping on the balcony himself, but leaving unsmeared foot prints in a V shape, and a dust disturbance on the railing the size of her waist?

IMO, these things are impossible.

 

[questfortrue]

Imo, the indication that RZ was murdered is great, utilizing the amount of forensic evidence introduced by the plaintiff. Btw, these are simply my impressions as someone new to the case.

I believe Greer laid it out succinctly in his interview with Tricia. If one accepts that it was a murder and not a suicide, and as there are no neat forensic ties to anyone (fingerprints, DNA, etc.), then one must follow a circumstantial path. This includes what cynic posted here https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...eath-Lawsuit-Overview&p=13984299#post13984299 Respectfully snipped for brevity:

It is well settled that a witness's demeanor is always relevant to his or her credibility. (Evid.Code, § 780, subd. (a); People v. Lopez (2013) 56 Cal.4th 1028, 1064; People v. Scotl (2011) 52 Cal.4th 452, 493; and Elkins v. Superior Court (2007) 41 Cal.4th 1337, 1358.) In other words “The weight and credibility of testimony is affected not only by other evidence which is directly contradictory, but also by pertinent circumstances and the demeanor of witnesses.
(Kilstrom v. Bronnenberg (1952) 110 Cal.App.2d 62, 65.) Thus inferences may be drawn not only from the evidence but from the demeanor of the witness and his manner of testifying.” (Berger v. Steiner (1945) 72 CaI.App.2d 208, 214-215.)

There was clearly opportunity. Only AS admits to being at the property (in the guest house) that evening. As far as motive, overlaying this crime is the heavy display of a sexual assault using a knife handle, coupled with binding. (The autopsy only shows small spots of dried blood on a couple of fingers. Please correct me if I failed to see a mention of cuts on her fingers in this autopsy.) While this is a case that invites speculation, no motive other than a contemptible assault might be all that can be discerned, let alone proven in court. RZ was left in a humiliating posture in death, including the forensics that she was hogtied. The person who perpetrated this seemed to be manifesting anger and a desire to debase RZ. (More info on this kind of assault can be read at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Types_of_rapist )

Regards the very important clue written on the door, it was written by someone taller than RZ, it had a distinctive left slant, and, finally, if one is familiar with the questions used in the Zen koan, one will recognize the flavor of a koan printed on the door. The first line presented the idea that RZ had saved MS’s life by administering CPR. The second line in a koan may add to a riddle or puzzle. It’s intended to be provocative or cryptic. I get that this idea may be perceived as “out there” in contemplating this note, but I’ve a point. One may recall a few of the most celebrated authors in American literature were Zen Buddhists, and some even included a taste of this in their writing. Someone familiar with American literature will know about cryptic koans, perhaps even being an amateur author.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

From his Colonel Klink-style testimony, it's clear you don't need to know much to be a tugboat captain, including how to identify and tie nautical knots.

Honest question because I haven't been able to keep up with all the testimony. Has the plaintiff called witnesses who work with Adam to say he consistently ties the same nautical knot that was found in Rebecca's case? Do others do this same knot that may be recreational boaters or can it only be done by someone in AS profession? TIA

 

[stmarysmead]

A circumstantial path must have some basis in fact. There is no prior evidence of such hatred toward RZ by AS that he would want to nt only attack her, but debase her. At the moment, she was considered the heroine...the savior of little Max.

Is there proof that AS took a course in Zen literature. I was an American literature major...to include graduate study. I am unfamiliar with cryptic koans.

If the doors were not locked, there are lots of options for opportunity.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Another question. Sorry.

Was there evidence of vaginal damage from the knife? It seems if a sexual assault was made with a knife the damage would be severe. Did she have cuts in her vagina that would show the knife in question was used?

TIA again.

 

[Jessica2012]

Another question. Sorry.

Was there evidence of vaginal damage from the knife? It seems if a sexual assault was made with a knife the damage would be severe. Did she have cuts in her vagina that would show the knife in question was used?

TIA again.

Hello OceanBlueEyes, nice to see you here.

Both Jonathan Lucas, the original Medical Examiner for San Diego, and Cyril Wecht, the hired Medical Examiner for the Plantiffs found no evidence of sexual assault.

Concerning the sexual assault with the knife, this was posted on Caitlyn Rother’s Facebook page last night. She has been attending the proceedings:

Caitlyn Rother posted this on her Facebook page tonight:

The defense team in Rebecca Zahau trial poked holes in the plaintiff's case today. Two witnesses, both former employees of the sheriff's crime lab, testifed today about fingerprint and DNA processing and analysis of the scene. It was very technical at times, but they were both very clear and concise. The fingerprint examiner said she didn't think areas were wiped down, as the plaintiff has suggested, because Rebecca's fingerprints were still found on them. She said prints are fragile, and it's not unusual for people to touch things and leave no trace, especially if they've just washed and dried their hands. (Note: Adam Shacknai said he had just taken a shower just before he cut her down.) The DNA analyst said that testing items for vaginal blood or oral swabs for DNA should show the presence of far more epithelial cells than if someone just touched the items. The count on Rebecca's oral swab was 600 nanograms. The swab of the knife handle which the plaintiff claims Shacknai used to sexually assault Rebecca, who was menstruating, before killing her? Only 35 nanograms. That means it is more likely transfer blood from a cut, and therefore not sexual in nature--unless it was degraded somehow by print processing powder, or something that comes out on cross tomorrow. Not a great day for the plaintiff.

 

[Tortoise]

Another question. Sorry.

Was there evidence of vaginal damage from the knife? It seems if a sexual assault was made with a knife the damage would be severe. Did she have cuts in her vagina that would show the knife in question was used?

TIA again.

It was the knife handle that had blood on all four sides, not the blade.

 

[minorone]

Why are RZ’s fingerprints on the doors, paint tube, bed etc. and not AS? The explanation I keep reading is...he wiped them down. How did he wipe his prints off and not hers?

According to Gore:
"We fully expected to find many fingerprints in this house because, simply stated, it is a house. Anyone living in or visiting a residence can leave behind fingerprints, which is why we had to focus on items directly related to the event."
"Fingerprints, DNA, and other items left behind in other areas of the mansion have limited value in proving or disproving a crime."

It is surprising to everyone that they only checked for fingerprints/DNA in the area directly related to the event (whatever that means). They did not check the rest of the residence or buildings associated with the residence. A reasonable explanation for no fingerprints is that person that did this wore gloves.

Why was there no DNA from Adam on the rope where he cut her down and jumped down to the ground with her???
Also why was no DNA from Adam on Rebecca since he says he performed CPR on Rebecca???

Also there was only one fingerprint found on the paint lid - no fingerprints were found on tube.

 

[Seattle1]

Snipped from minute order Seattle1 posted:

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...eath-Lawsuit-Overview&p=14010388#post14010388

Seattle1 :wave:

Have you seen any requests from the media to stream Jonah’s testimony? TIA

Mansion Death Lawsuit: Jonah Shacknai takes the stand
Posted: Mar 22, 2018 9:06 AM PDT
Updated: Mar 22, 2018 10:25 AM PDT


The trial will resume after 11 a.m.: Stream live from your mobile device: http://kfmb.us/livestream

SAN DIEGO (NEWS 8) - Testimony will continue in trial of a lawsuit alleging that Adam Shacknai, the brother of millionaire Jonah Shacknai, killed Jonah Shacknai's girlfriend, Rebecca Zahau, at the Spreckles Coronado mansion in July 2011.

http://www.cbs8.com/story/37785775/...onah-shacknai-takes-the-stand?&autostart=true