Wrongful death trial begins. Trial coverage and discussion #2

[stmarysmead]

I found JS to be far different than my preconceived impression. He surely loved that child. My heart went out to him as he struggled not to cry.

He also seemed to have treated RZ well. He was an excellent witness for his brother in my opinion.

 

[Seattle1]

Adam does have some type of insurance policy that will pay out if he's found guilty, but I don't know how much coverage he has.

There are no insurance policies that provide coverage for MURDER!
Insurance coverage to defend one self against the charge (i.e., legal fees), yes but should Plaintiffs prevail, there will be NO PAYMENT TO
RZ Family.

 

[Tiffanie]

As Jonah Shacknai's testimony was wrapping up, the camera panned to the defense table; a can of Diet Dr. Pepper was in front of Adam. Things that make you go, hmmmm.........

 

[Brit]

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?st...0643330760&refsrc=http://www.google.com/&_rdr

JS morning testimony replay.

 

[Inparadise]

I believe JS's teens lived with their mother and just visited.

The older children lived with both parents, alternating each week, except for summer vacation, when they spent part of it with their father, and part with their mother, usually at her lake house in the Carolinas.

 

[asgaror]

Hand washing is a factor that could leave little to no trace of dna. But as you explained, Adam was very busy, which would eliminate showering as a reason. In fact, based on the factors below and Adam’s activities outlined in your post, there are more reasons to believe there should have been at least some of Adam’s DNA left behind. Being there wasn’t, I conclude Adam had to be wearing gloves, IMO.



>>snip

Factors that can affect the amount of DNA available for transfer include:

Hand washing. If a person has not washed their hands recently, there tends to be more DNA present on the surface of the hands as washing will remove many of the shed cells on the surface of the hands.

Personal Habits. Some individuals tend to touch their face, eyes, nose, hair, etc. more often than others thus picking up DNA from those areas to be transferred onto the next thing that is touched. Wickenheiser (2002) described this process as “loading” the fingers with DNA.

Type of Contact. Goray et al (2010) demonstrated that factors such as pressure and friction can also relate to how much DNA is transferred onto a touched object. An increase in the amount of pressure applied tends to lead to an increase in the amount of DNA transferred and the application of friction to the contact increases the amount of DNA transferred even further.

Substrate. Rough surfaces (wood, concrete, grooved surfaces) tend to collect and retain skin cell DNA better than smooth surfaces. This is why the grip and trigger area of a gun, which are generally rougher, are swabbed for DNA while the smooth areas can be processed for latent prints.

Perspiration. As discussed earlier, sweat is known to increase the amount of DNA available for transfer. It is thought that this may occur for two reasons. First, as the sweat passes through a person’s pores and makes its way to the skin surface, it may collect cells along the way and wash them to the surface (Wickenheiser, 2002). Second, the previously mentioned study by Quinones and Daniel (2011) showed that sweat also contains epithelial cells and cell-free nucleic acids which represent additional DNA available for transfer to an object.

http://ryanforensicdna.com/touchdna/

Thank you so much for all of this information! That puts things back into perspective for me. It is unusual that his prints were not found, then, and that would also help me to conclude that he wore gloves.

Jonah on the stand was very interesting. He is a lot different than I expected him to be, but I know that doesn't really count for much since what they say can be very rehearsed. I wish he was on for longer, as I don't really feel like they got into a whole lot that was very useful. The only interesting discussion that came out for me was really about whether Rebecca was religious or not, and his brothers "training" as a writer. It seems he used the word "training" in a previous questioning, but now says he doesn't know if he had any training as a writer. I'm not really sure how you could make a mistake about something like that. It does remind me of Adam's alleged "no knowledge at all" (basically) of knot tying.

What happens next in the trial? Will anyone else be on stand?

 

[K_Z]

Watching Jonah's testimony. He stated that organ procurement coordinator approached him and Dina before Rebecca died. He attempted to phrase this as "in case Max didn't improve". In my experience, no one ever contacts organ procurement to begin discussions with family unless brain death determination is ALREADY in progress. And no one begins the process of pediatric brain death determination "thinking or hoping" that there is still potential for improvement. For kids already in ICU, the process will take about 48 hours to run serial tests, and have several providers do independent evaluations.

That the organ procurement coordinator was already involved with Jonah and Dina, along with Jonah's reports about Dina's receptiveness to the medical reports and prognosis, indicate that there was an expectant situation before Rebecca died.

On another note, Jonah clearly struggled emotionally with his memories of Max's injuries and hospitalization. He was struggling not to break into tears, wiped his eyes many times. It's clear he really loved Max.

I appreciated his candor about the way Dina felt about Rebecca, and how he was trying to keep them apart, and run interference.

I think he was a good witness, who came across as sincere. I think he had a lot of genuine affection for Rebecca, and as he discussed their relationship, I think Jonah came across as genuine. He certainly came across as a loving father who was devastated in discussions about Max and his injuries and hospitalization.

He was somewhat offended/ shocked by Dr. Brad Peterson's "abruptness" when talking to them about Max's prognosis Tuesday afternoon/ eve before Rebecca died. I believe that Jonah used the words "inappropriately blunt" or something similar. And that Dina was very upset, crying and saying over and over "it's not true", as Jonah tried to comfort her. Certainly understandable that Dina would be so upset, as any loving mother would be.

Mr. Greer certainly got a lot of information in on cross about Jonah's knowledge of Rebecca's use of KT tape, and Rebecca's knowledge of knot tying, denied anything about Shibari, and demonstrated the tie-off on the dock cleat exhibit.

I do think Jonah has altered his testimony since his original deposition about the knot tying-- Jonah discussed tying off the boat at least twice by my recollection. He was trying mightily to get that into the record, IMO-- to deflect attention from Adam's profession as a tug operator who clearly knows knots.

Very interesting that Jonah contradicts Dina's testimony about pantomiming self stabbing, and contradicts her testimony about "asian honor." One of them is not telling the truth about that.

 

[Mica]

Thank you so much for all of this information! That puts things back into perspective for me. It is unusual that his prints were not found, then, and that would also help me to conclude that he wore gloves.

Jonah on the stand was very interesting. He is a lot different than I expected him to be, but I know that doesn't really count for much since what they say can be very rehearsed. I wish he was on for longer, as I don't really feel like they got into a whole lot that was very useful. The only interesting discussion that came out for me was really about whether Rebecca was religious or not, and his brothers "training" as a writer. It seems he used the word "training" in a previous questioning, but now says he doesn't know if he had any training as a writer. I'm not really sure how you could make a mistake about something like that. It does remind me of Adam's alleged "no knowledge at all" (basically) of knot tying.

What happens next in the trial? Will anyone else be on stand?

The knot tying and KT-tape line of questioning was also of interest. Rebecca always tied up the boat (knots) but his deposition stated he has only seen her tie shoe laces. She always used T-tape but he couldn’t adequately describe how or where she placed it on her leg.

 

[Myvice]

With all due respect, as a person who was "not allowed" to live with my dad after stepmom moved in (similarly, my sibling was kicked out as soon as she turned 18), I personally think the child should always come first. My stepmother's children (who are older than my sibling and I) lived there but we couldn't. Of course tons of factors come into play and there are various options for handling these things. But I will never feel that the child shouldn't come first after what my sister and I experienced, so I can't judge JH too harshly on that without knowing more.

After reading through the testimony, I will say I posted without knowing the full content. I believe children should always come first as well, but I don't think children should be allowed to disrespect anyone without good cause. I shouldn't have stated an opinion without all the facts.

 

[asgaror]

The knot tying and T-tape line of questioning was also of interest.

Yes, I'm hoping people will go into further discussion about the T-tape line on the forum, because my video cut out randomly for large portions of this part! And I really want to understand further in how this will support Greer (I hope it will!).

 

[Tortoise]

I thought Jonah said the organ donation discussion happened after Rebecca's death, later that day.

 

[K_Z]

Recap of Jonah's testimony:

http://www.cbs8.com/story/37785775/mansion-death-lawsuit-jonah-shacknai-takes-the-stand

 

[K_Z]

I thought Jonah said the organ donation discussion happened after Rebecca's death, later that day.

It's possible I heard that wrong. But as I was listening, that conversation is what Jonah says prompted his lost VM to Rebecca, and Jonah was careful to say he repeated Dr. BP's words "if he lived, best case would be unable to walk or talk." Jonah also said he didn't try to soften it, and was crying when he called, IIRC. Hopefully, Jonah's testimony will be available somewhere on the web.

Regardless, I think testimony shows that there was not any real hope at that point, despite what news articles have pushed for so many years. Jonah reluctantly said something to the fact that you never really give up hope. But it's clear to me that the docs were getting them used to the idea that Max wasn't going to live, and that they (docs) expected him to die. Jonah didn't give any indications in his testimony that he thought Max would live. He was devastated.

 

[Tortoise]

It's possible I heard that wrong. But as I was listening, that conversation is what Jonah says prompted his lost VM to Rebecca, and Jonah was careful to say he repeated Dr. BP's words "if he lived, best case would be unable to walk or talk." Jonah also said he didn't try to soften it, and was crying when he called, IIRC. Hopefully, Jonah's testimony will be available somewhere on the web.

Regardless, I think testimony shows that there was not any real hope at that point, despite what news articles have pushed for so many years. Jonah reluctantly said something to the fact that you never really give up hope. But it's clear to me that the docs were getting them used to the idea that Max wasn't going to live, and that they (docs) expected him to die. Jonah didn't give any indications in his testimony that he thought Max would live. He was devastated.

Yes I think he repeated exactly what Dr Peterson had said in the voicemail, and then they were asked to consider organ donation the following afternoon.

 

[K_Z]

It looks like CBS-8 updates this page with video after court days-- perhaps those interested should bookmark it, and check later to see if Jonah's testimony video is added.

http://www.cbs8.com/category/216525/coronado-mansion-death-related-stories-videos-links

 

[K_Z]

Yes I think he repeated exactly what Dr Peterson had said in the voicemail, and then they were asked to consider organ donation the following afternoon.

Also, organ procurement never just approaches ANY family. Every hospital I've ever worked in has policies that physicians must document in the notes that they have had a conversation with family about contacting organ procurement to come talk with them, and get the permission of the family BEFORE contacting organ procurement at all.

And to be clear, the first person who contacts the family is not from UNOS, but is a designated social worker employed by the hospital. That individual has nothing to do with obtaining consents or doing the actual donation paperwork process. That person is only to gain formal permission from to contact UNOS, or not.

Here's 2 examples of hospital policy and procedures:

file:///C:/Users/Owner/Downloads/633OrganandTissueDonation.pdf

https://my.clevelandclinic.org/ccf/media/files/Bioethics/Organ_procurement_policy.pdf

 

[Tortoise]

I didn't watch it all. Was Jonah asked if he had ever met Adam's girlfriend of 20 years?

 

[Imp]

I can't watch JS. Does anyone have any opinions on whether he was able to put a dent in the plaintiff's evidence of murder or their contention that AS is the perp? Other than character-type stuff, I mean.

 

[stmarysmead]

I didn't watch it all. Was Jonah asked if he had ever met Adam's girlfriend of 20 years?

I thought Mr Greer distinguished himself by NOT asking gotcha questions and instead focusing on the important elements of his case...the tape, rope, knots etc. This is where he wants the jury to go.

To me, it was respectful on both sides...and that was impressive.

 

[Verboten]

Honestly, if I were on the jury, religion wouldn’t be something I would focus on. People fall into and out of religion at times in their lives for one reason or another. If Rebecca’s family believes she had a strong religious foundation, so be it. Rebecca’s prior theft and affairs had nothing to do with this crime (murder) either.

Thanks for this post. It's total victim bashing to go into this crap which has NOTHING to do with anything. Are you kidding me--courts don't even allow prior crimes to be mentioned when someone is on trial for a violent and similar offense, because it's prejudicial; but we're talking about whether Rebecca had affairs? How about Jonah? Did he ever have an affair? What about actions against his company and how that speaks to his honesty and character? If this kind of crap is being allowed in front of the jury (I haven't heard caught up on reports about today & only have what little I see on the news in terms of other testimony like her ex-husband), I can't understand why it's acceptable.