Wrongful death trial begins. Trial coverage and discussion #2

[Imp]

Thanks Lezah - I certainly missed this part of AS testimony. Hmmm - more internal trains of thought?

I'm still trying to make sense over the fact that AS was allegedly the ONLY known person to see RZ hanging from the balcony, and could not offer a single detail of what he saw (i.e., facing direction, height from ground, etc). Today I did the hypothetical questioning of "what would you do" and most indicated they'd first cut victim down, remove the noose , and begin cpr.

I can't predict right now what I'd do first/second/third, however, I think I would most definitely have that first image of a dead, nude woman hanging from a balcony burned into my memory for all eternity. He seems fuzzy even on that. And then I think I would try to quickly process what to do first, and I'd be thinking so hard about it that the order in which I did things would also be burned into my memory because of the processing I needed to do.

I don't know for sure, because as they say, you never know what you'll do in any given (horrendous) situation, but I would think certain memories would be easily accessible, like I said, for eternity.

 

[Imp]

My first response to Jonah’s testimony was emotional, relating to him as a grieving father and boyfriend. But n retrospect, I don’t think his testimony was particularly helpful to his brother.

Mr Greer has stipulated that JS was already in a relationship with his current wife while living with RZ. This admission, to me, showed quite a bit of integrity, because it is not helpful to the plaintiffs case...being a possible reason for despair and suicide.

Because of that, I believe Mr Greer has told the truth.

I therefore expected the defense to use this. I expected JS, in trying to save his brother, would admit this betrayal of Rebecca, even though it would sully his own reputation.

After all, his “Baby Brother” has everything at stake here.

But despite the fact that it might help his brother’s case, the defense did not bring this up and JS was allowed to paint a picture of himself as a loving, caring boyfriend...with the only problem in the relationship being a teenage daughter.

Were JS and the attorneys primarily interested in protecting his image? Or am I missing some key strategy here?

BBM. I've actually contended all along that preserving JS's image (and the image of his company at the time) is integral to how RZ's death was handled. And I actually think JS's image is more important to him than his brother being found guilty, so if he has to pick whose gonna look better to the jury/general public, he'll choose himself.

 

[Imp]

In testimony at the civil trial, Jonah testified that he spent the night and "Dina was there too"..... does anyone know if Dina also stayed at the RMcD House, or did she go home at some point?

This isn't an answer to your question, but just to say there's always been a degree of murkiness around who was at the hospital when, and where they were when they weren't at the hospital. Could be entirely innocent, but because the investigators were so protective and not forthcoming, it raised a lot of suspicions, imo.

 

[Imp]

9/2/2011 San Diego Press Conference:



Notes from JS’s testimony:



Discrepancy? Maybe nothing? The homeowner, JS, was NOT sure there was a rope in that location? He definitely seemed sure in his testimony this week. The kids ALWAYS went boating when they were there. There was kind of a boating area in the garage for the red rope and tube. The family arrived in CA in May.

This is the big press conference SDSO gave in September with all their conclusions. Not something from the beginning of the investigation. This was in the BIG press conference, JS was not sure if there WAS a rope in that location?

Looks like another example of "Because Jonah said so ..." forensic evidence.

 

[elfie]

Making my way through the other trial thread and there is discussion again regarding whether she ever went over the railing on the balcony. Also Cynic had mentioned strangulation before the hanging. Would dragging her by the noose cause enough force to effect the tearing that K_Z discusses?

 

[Inparadise]

BBM-

Good point!

Their father passed away Sept 2016, Mom in 1999, easy to find online.

Interesting, Jonah was “deeply superstitious”?

BBM Snip-

IIRC, the parents were divorced, and the father remarried a woman 20+ years his junior. I will have to look for the link.

 

[Verboten]

That doesn't fit with what he said to the Fire/EMS operator - "I just woke up"

Bingo. Great point, Tortoise. Another inconsistency.

 

[Verboten]

9/2/2011 San Diego Press Conference:



Notes from JS’s testimony:



Discrepancy? Maybe nothing? The homeowner, JS, was NOT sure there was a rope in that location? He definitely seemed sure in his testimony this week. The kids ALWAYS went boating when they were there. There was kind of a boating area in the garage for the red rope and tube. The family arrived in CA in May.

This is the big press conference SDSO gave in September with all their conclusions. Not something from the beginning of the investigation. This was in the BIG press conference, JS was not sure if there WAS a rope in that location?

Good observation. See, a real investigation would have gone after Adam like a hound dog due to his 911 and poly. In the course of that, they would have tracked every bit of evidence and that would have led them to figure out details about the crime, if anyone else was involved, etc. The rope is one of those big pieces.

LE and ME are running around, "She *could* have got rope from the garage." "*Maybe* she bumped the top of her head on the way down... I mean, *that's possibe*, right?" A real investigation would have left nothing to chance. So, yes, for the rope, they would have been answering -- Where did she get the rope? Was the rope old, did it have indications of having been in the Bay, pulling tubes? If it might have come from garage boating area--was that area dusty? Did the rope show signs of same type of dust? Was the rope typically stored in something (in a box or bag, etc)? If so, where is the storage item (box, let's say)? Or did it sit directly on the shelf? Was that area newly disturbed? Are there other ropes in the garage or on the boats that might have been the ones used for the tubing activity? Was the rope new? In pics, it doesn't look like used rope, but maybe that's deceptive. If it was new, where did it come from? Where is the packaging? Where is the receipt? What store might have sold it to them? If it's very new and local, is there video of the person buying it? If it was bought from outside Coronado, why? And, on and on... I personally feel Adam may well have brought it with him. A real investigation would have followed that 'til the very end of the line--until they'd learned as much as could reasonably be known about that rope.

 

[Lezah]

I just re-listened to AS testimony and picked up on a couple more things: AS was greatly impacted by the stress he heard in his Father's voice alerting him about Max's accident; AS offered more on his Tug Pilot qualifications to enable piloting near NY to be closer to his Dad; and finally how AS could not marry his girl friend out of respect for his parents. After what sounded like present time testimony (except for Max death of course), I was surprised to learn that JS and AS parents are both deceased! There goes the can't get married excuse...

Ahhh, you picked up my thoughts in several aspects...and gave me more to think about.

I mentioned in a post up the thread, I felt from hearing AS testimony that he loved his dad and cared deeply for him, and his feelings and well being very much. For me, the only part of his testimony that felt truly ‘authentic’ was when he spoke with genuine emotion about his fathers devastation at Maxie’s injury’s. I believe AS had a great empathy for his fathers pain during this first phone call. I believe AS father likely blamed and held RZ responsible as the child was in her care when the accident happened.

My opinion is that this was the likely catalyst which put the subsequent events in motion...

 

[Verboten]

...<snipped> I believe AS had a great empathy for his fathers pain during this first phone call. I believe AS father likely blamed and held RZ responsible as the child was in her care when the accident happened.

My opinion is that this was the likely catalyst which put the subsequent events in motion...

Yes. Ever since I heard his testimony about his dad, I've thought this. It was clear that dad was devastated, thus understood the severity of Max's condition. And, it seems clear Adam felt deep emotion for his father and was deeply impacted by his father's pain. If his father held RZ responsible (as might be expected), this would have been a powerful motivator for Adam.

 

[Lezah]

I can't predict right now what I'd do first/second/third, however, I think I would most definitely have that first image of a dead, nude woman hanging from a balcony burned into my memory for all eternity. He seems fuzzy even on that. And then I think I would try to quickly process what to do first, and I'd be thinking so hard about it that the order in which I did things would also be burned into my memory because of the processing I needed to do.

I don't know for sure, because as they say, you never know what you'll do in any given (horrendous) situation, but I would think certain memories would be easily accessible, like I said, for eternity.

Imp, When I lived in Ireland as a child I saw a British soldier sitting on the ground shortly after he got shot, he was having emergency treatment. I was 10.

I can remember the clothes I was wearing, I remember seeing blood on the ground as I looked at the floor and I can still see my small feet in light blue plimsoles with a dark blue band around the sole and my yellow ankle socks that my grandmother hated me wearing. I can even recall the smell in the air, and color of the front door in the doorway where he was sitting...there was a number 36 on the door. I can even see the pattern of the wire frame behind the glass of the door.

It was four decades ago.

That’s my experience of a traumatic event, so when AS says he can’t recall seeing someone he actually knew in this situation, I have trouble accepting it as the truth.

 

[Betty P]

Imp, When I lived in Ireland as a child I saw a British soldier sitting on the ground shortly after he got shot, he was having emergency treatment. I was 10.

I can remember the clothes I was wearing, I remember seeing blood on the ground as I looked at the floor and I can still see my small feet in light blue plimsoles with a dark blue band around the sole and my yellow ankle socks that my grandmother hated me wearing. I can even recall the smell in the air, and color of the front door in the doorway where he was sitting...there was a number 36 on the door. I can even see the pattern of the wire frame behind the glass of the door.

It was four decades ago.

That&#8217;s my experience of a traumatic event, so when AS says he can&#8217;t recall seeing someone he actually knew in this situation, I have trouble accepting it as the truth.

Adam's sketchy memory of events and details, etc. is one reason I've always felt someone concocted the story about Adam taking Ambien that night. It would help explain any inconsistencies in his testimony and provide an excuse for him not having heard RZ "committing suicide" right outside his bedroom. To make the suicide cover story work, Adam needed to "discover" Rebecca and make the 911 call during daylight in the event any neighbors happened to look into the courtyard that morning.

 

[Verboten]

Adam's sketchy memory of events and details, etc. is one reason I've always felt someone concocted the story about Adam taking Ambien that night. It would help explain any inconsistencies in his testimony and provide an excuse for him not having heard RZ "committing suicide" right outside his bedroom. To make the suicide cover story work, Adam needed to "discover" Rebecca and make the 911 call during daylight in the event any neighbors happened to look into the courtyard that morning.

Right. Which is why the "killing time" and "waiting for the light" is very interesting. That's NOT someone soundly zonked out (thoroughly exhausted after that long flight from Phoenix, as he testified, and furthermore on ambien). They represent he's out so soundly that he couldn't hear the music the neighbors heard or a body flinging off the balcony right outside his window. I don't think the ambien story accounts for the major discrepancies in the 911 and polygraph, though, even if one was to believe it. And, he contradicts it or minimizes its impact with his "killing time" testimony. He was waiting for the light because he couldn't "discover" the body any sooner ... not until he could rationally explain why he had reason to go out there.

 

[Seattle1]

Ahhh, you picked up my thoughts in several aspects...and gave me more to think about.

I mentioned in a post up the thread, I felt from hearing AS testimony that he loved his dad and cared deeply for him, and his feelings and well being very much. For me, the only part of his testimony that felt truly &#8216;authentic&#8217; was when he spoke with genuine emotion about his fathers devastation at Maxie&#8217;s injury&#8217;s. I believe AS had a great empathy for his fathers pain during this first phone call. I believe AS father likely blamed and held RZ responsible as the child was in her care when the accident happened.

My opinion is that this was the likely catalyst which put the subsequent events in motion...

Shakespearean? My two sons: the crowned, and the avenger.

 

[coastal]

Shakespearean? My two sons: the crowned, and the avenger.

...the heir

 

[Invisible]

D

I can't predict right now what I'd do first/second/third, however, I think I would most definitely have that first image of a dead, nude woman hanging from a balcony burned into my memory for all eternity. He seems fuzzy even on that. And then I think I would try to quickly process what to do first, and I'd be thinking so hard about it that the order in which I did things would also be burned into my memory because of the processing I needed to do.

I don't know for sure, because as they say, you never know what you'll do in any given (horrendous) situation, but I would think certain memories would be easily accessible, like I said, for eternity.

Do you know what I have burned into my memory? The news coverage of Rebecca lying on the ground nude...for hours. I will never forget that, it was inexcusable.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

D
Do you know what I have burned into my memory? The news coverage of Rebecca lying on the ground nude...for hours. I will never forget that, it was inexcusable.

And weren't the neighbor's kids climbing on their roofs :blushing:to take a look as well? I don't have a link but I seem to remember something like that.

It was beyond inexcusable.

 

[Imp]

D
Do you know what I have burned into my memory? The news coverage of Rebecca lying on the ground nude...for hours. I will never forget that, it was inexcusable.

Same here, Invisible, same here. I've never witnessed anything like that.

 

[Imp]

And weren't the neighbor's kids climbing on their roofs :blushing:to take a look as well? I don't have a link but I seem to remember something like that.

It was beyond inexcusable.

I remember something along those lines as well. So let's pretend for a moment there was no ME available in all of SoCal for 12 hours. LE didn't have a tent? They couldn't just fashion something using a tarp and some stakes in the ground? Indefensible behavior, imo, and it certainly seemed a deliberate attempt to degrade evidence.

 

[Inparadise]

And weren't the neighbor's kids climbing on their roofs :blushing:to take a look as well? I don't have a link but I seem to remember something like that.

It was beyond inexcusable.

Yes, sadly there was a group of teenage boys up on the roof top deck of a house a few doors down from Spreckels, laughing, drinking and inviting people from the street to join them looking at Rebecca's naked corpse. They, and their parents should be ashamed.