Wrongful death trial begins. Trial coverage and discussion #2

[Betty P]

Hi *Lash* and Betty P!

question for anyone- I’m not sure if I heard correctly, but did AS testify that prior to discovering Rebecca he was going to go to a “charming little coffee shop on Main Street?”

Yes, he did, another inconsistency in his story. Why would he say that, I wonder?

http://www.thecwsandiego.com/story/...l-death-lawsuit-adam-shacknai-takes-the-stand

Good to see you arielilane! We missed seeing you here!

 

[Betty P]

That charming little coffee shop would be on Orange Ave, and would have been The Night And Day Cafe (kind of a dive type diner), Clayton’s (which is also a diner), or Cafe 1134. Besides Starbucks, those would be the only places open at that time of the morning.

I wonder if he had been there earlier? Many here have surmised that he didn't sleep at all the night of RZ's murder. There was too much work, cleaning up, planning, etc. A partially empty container of Dr. Pepper was found in the murder room. I wonder if he hotfooted it up to the diner early on to get some coffee. He may have been avoiding leaving any more evidence of his presence inside the mansion.

 

[Mica]

I wonder if he had been there earlier? Many here have surmised that he didn't sleep at all the night of RZ's murder. There was too much work, cleaning up, planning, etc. A partially empty container of Dr. Pepper was found in the murder room. I wonder if he hotfooted it up to the diner early on to get some coffee. He may have been avoiding leaving any more evidence of his presence inside the mansion.

Somebody here said they saw a can of Dr. Pepper on the table in front of AS in the courtroom. Just saying.

 

[*Lash*]

Hey Everyone,

Here is the latest interview with Caitlin Rother. She paints a very tense picture of what is going on in the courtroom.

https://soundcloud.com/tricia-arrington-griffith/caitlin-rother-32318

:tyou: Tricia and Caitlin. Great interview. Thank you, coastal and verboten for your notes. So much time given to find justice for Rebecca! Yes, rebuttal, rebuttal and rebuttal! Made my day!

 

[*Lash*]

The paragraph in bold, from as early as July 25th, as always stuck with me.

The financial backdrop

MRX has fallen since Zahau's death. If the police were to bring charges in her death -- even if Shacknai had nothing to do with it -- Shacknai would be drawn in as a witness, distracting him from the business. Outside Medicis, the cosmetic pharmaceutical business is proceeding through a crucial period of consolidation, which would normally require strategic responses from Shacknai. Allergan(AGN), Medicis' main rival, agreed to acquire Viceptthis week. That deal came on the heels of Valeant (VRX)'s $345 million acquisition of the skincare unit of Johnson & Johnson(JNJ); and its planned $425 million buyout of Sanofi(SNY)'s Dermik skincare business.

If the police return a verdict of suicide, Medicis has a chance of getting back to normal. If not, then Shacknai faces some unpleasant, and unfair, conversations with his colleagues.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/if-pro...medicis-may-contemplate-life-without-its-ceo/

 

[stmarysmead]

Hey Everyone,

Here is the latest interview with Caitlin Rother. She paints a very tense picture of what is going on in the courtroom.

https://soundcloud.com/tricia-arrington-griffith/caitlin-rother-32318

Wow! I now have a completely different idea of how this trial is progressing. I also never knew about asecond boyfriends testimony! What’s the story on Rebecca’s kidnapping?

 

[Imp]

Huge thanks to everyone who has commented on the latest Tricia-Caitlin Rother interview. (I haven't listened yet but hopefully I'll get a chance later today.) Also huge thanks to *Lash* and her amazing archiving system!

*Lash* ~ post #785 re: Medicis stock after Rebecca's death goes up one side of me and down the other, as it has since 2011. No one will ever convince me this wasn't pivotal to the way RZ's death investigation was handled (or mishandled, to be more precise).

My 2 cents about AS's motive: I know many folks here believe he killed her as retribution for what happened to Max, however, for some reason I just can't buy that AS was so emotionally connected to his family (his dad, brother, or nephew) that it would drive him to seek revenge against RZ. I think he put on a show for the jury, probably after many rehearsals.

What I suspect is that he'd been told by someone, perhaps JS, that the relationship between RZ and JS was on the rocks, and Max's fall on her watch was the final straw. I also think it's possible that's what JS said to her in the voicemail, if he actually left one. (For the record, whatever he allegedly said in the alleged voicemail that RZ allegedly listened to, I don't think for a second it triggered her to commit suicide.)

I do think that AS's perhaps newly acquired knowledge that the relationship between JS and RZ was irretrievably broken might've been all the encouragement he needed to make a pass at her, and when she refused, thinking she was at that point expendable, he assaulted her and the assault got very sexually bizarre and ultimately ended in her death.

There's no way to know when he crossed the line from assault to murder, or even whether he intended it to go that far. Doesn't matter one way or the other, obviously.

AS admitting to LE that he masturbated to *advertiser censored* on his phone has always struck me as an entirely bizarre detail no person would offer if there was any way in the world to avoid it. Now that we have more evidence of such things as the hogtie and knife handle, imo, the only reason he admitted that was because he was concerned they'd find his semen on something. I'm guessing that while he had the presence of mind to put on gloves and perhaps wipe down surfaces with dryer sheets, he did not wear a condom.

I wonder if RZ's mouth was swabbed? Were all the potential "rape areas" (I'm trying not to name body parts for the sake of any of her friends or family who read here) of her body swabbed?

There's just nothing about the dynamics of this family that convinces me AS would deliberately set out to kill RZ to somehow "honor" his dad or brother. I think the brothers are very self-absorbed, and I think AS simply wanted to satisfy his sexual urges (in all their forms) for RZ.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents on motive and I won't wait for change!

 

[Imp]

Going through old articles, does everyone emember the media blackout issued by SDSO investigators?

REBECCA NALEPA – HAS POLICE SECRECY HELPED THE INVESTIGATION?


http://news.lalate.com/2011/07/20/rebecca-nalepa-has-police-secrecy-helped-the-investigation/

Oh, I most definitely remember it.

 

[Tortoise]

It's all making sense now why Adam said in the polygraph warm-up

"I fear, I hope to God she wasn't tied up"

He meant hogtied.

 

[Verboten]

I agree with all these points and they are very important. I'm glad the judge is focusing on them.

As for Caitlin, she's doing a good job, but I was somewhat surprised that she didn't know about the process of using superglue to detect fingerprints on evidence. That's also why I dismiss her concerns about lack of enough epithelial DNA on the knife handle. It's obvious the superglue and fingerprint powder resulted in a flawed analysis from the sample.

Also important is the fact that exposure of RZ's body to sunlight for over 12 hrs degraded the DNA present on her body and other evidence (ropes, gag, etc.) Combined with Adam likely wearing gloves, this explains a lot, including the reason she was left exposed for so long.

Re Jonah speaking so softly during the trial and demeanor that doesn't match his personality: Prominent people take professional acting lessons these days, from politicians to business leaders. Jonah's had over 6 years to prepare for his testimony. He's an experienced actor. Given his past work and personal history (domestic abuse, serial cheating, etc), he shows signs of sociopathic behavior and sociopaths are very good actors. Many wealthy, successful business executives display these traits.

I immediately thought this soft spokenness was a put on to give the jury a different impression of Jonah. The judge had to tell him repeatedly that he could not be heard. He had everything to gain by coming across so mild mannered and he had years to be coached.

"Gaslighting" of Rebecca: It's surprising anyone thinks rehashing of her previous shoplifting charge is relevant to this trial. Ditto for the unsubstantiated remarks to make her seem emotionally unstable. Evidence has clearly shown she was murdered.

What is the point in trying to impugn her reputation? We've seen the character assassination attempts of RZ often over the years: She's unstable, she's from a foreign country, she was sexually abused, she was religious, she wasn't religious, etc. As many here determined years ago, the message sent by the S & R families is plain: "she deserved to die". They believe she deserved to die and they want the public to think that. Every time they send these messages they're revealing their motive for killing her: "she deserved it". They're wrong about that. Rebecca was an innocent person and didn't deserve to be murdered in such a brutal way.

I am absolutely shocked that so much of this was allowed into trial. No, her "character" is not relevant as to whether this is suicide or murder. BTW, I'm angry we even have to state this. In NO other instance would such a crime even have been pondered as a suicide. This is not a gunshot to the head where she might have shot herself or something. It doesn't even remotely look like a suicide & the only people saying that initially were two primary POIs.

Adam's character is what's in question, but he's allowed to skirt around what he was arrested for (an "insurance issue"?) and how serious it was and how it was "taken care of..." his words! Er, I mean, summarily dismissed. This should have been pressed, imo. He goes into detail about the stop that caused them to find a warrant -- right on red -- but just leaves it open what the actual charge was. I'm surprised Greer did not push this in cross.

And of course, as to whether Jonah would lie to protect his reputation and his company: CEO Shacknai cooked the books: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/medicis-settles-case-alleging-ceo-shacknai-cooked-the-books/ from the article: "In the settlement, Shacknai and Prygocki appear to have dodged a major bullet. When almost identical allegations surfaced at Bristol-Myers Squibb (BMY) in 2002, it led to criminal indictments." Yet Jonah says, "it's a technical issue." Kind of like Adam's "insurance issue."

Nevertheless, these guys get to skate while they talk to every ex-boyfriend of Rebecca? Again, I'm shocked this was allowed in. I'm sorry to hear Caitlin's impressions of it because sounds like it's influenced her opinion of Rebecca's stability & she might be indicative of how the jury hears it. In Greer's cross of Jonah, what you actually hear is she's a calm, caring and giving person who lives a very healthy lifestyle.

Front door and kitchen door unlocked: RZ would not have left them unlocked, especially not both. Guest house unlocked for hours: Why? Gross incompetence by LE. Was Adam's luggage searched? Where was he and what was he doing in those hours after RZ's body was discovered? How much evidence was destroyed, hidden or tossed away?

Mary does note that RZ leaves doors unlocked frequently, though I've heard the front door automatically locks unless you specifically unlock it, so doesn't seem like she would have done that. As for the back door being unlocked, Adam mentioned that in the interview before the polygraph, so he knew that door was unlocked. I believe in years prior, he said he was going to the main house to get coffee, now he says out to a coffee shop. I believe this to give a sense he had boundaries and was respectful of not going into the main house. I wonder if this discrepancy was highlighted for jury.

By the way, according to Adams testimony he woke up at 6 or 6:30. He just laid in bed, killing time until the light came, masturbated and took a shower, then walked out to find Rebecca and call 911 at 6:45. That was a really long half hour, wasn't it?

 

[Gilgamesh]

RSBM- That is disgusting and every person on that property during those twelve hours should be ashamed of not intervening. I find the adament claims of suicide to be strikingly bizarre. As a strictly unbiased 3rd party living on the other side of the country, I have no emotional attachment or inside knowledge of RZ's death. How anyone could conceive a person (male/female/stable/unstable/Christian/Aethist) committed suicide in that manner, is far beyond my realm of comprehension. Me think some doth protest too much... I hope justice is finally served and may she rest in peace. I hope her family members are taking care of themselves as they endure this nightmare. And, I hope great things are in store for Mr. Greer. He's an amazing attorney and merciful man. He knew the powers he was up against, but continues to persevere under pressure.
JMO MOO etc

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Absolutely! Anyone who argues the case for suicide is NOT thinking it through. Go through those steps in your mind. It’s impossible. Thank you for such a great post. I agree 100% with everything you said. Bravo!

 

[Verboten]

The paragraph in bold, from as early as July 25th, as always stuck with me.

If the police return a verdict of suicide, Medicis has a chance of getting back to normal. If not, then Shacknai faces some unpleasant, and unfair, conversations with his colleagues.

Lash -- Somebody else who was at a newspaper at the time (who was it, I can't remember?), said something to the effect of: it was clear based on his emails a lot of people would be effected by this. Wish I could find it...I'll search around a little later. Basically, what I understood him to say was that the outcome of this case would impact a lot of important people (Elections for Gore and Dumanis? Medicis as a company? Medicis stockholders? Political donations? Other potential connections between Jonah/Medicis health & prominent folks in the area? Dirt someone had on someone? Power plays relating to heavy hitters hired by JS...??). Not only that, but sounded like people were letting this reporter know (in emails) to tread carefully. No doubt what you've highlighted goes a lot to the motivations to make this "go away" for Shacknai.

 

[stmarysmead]

I immediately thought this soft spokenness was a put on to give the jury a different impression of Jonah. The judge had to tell him repeatedly that he could not be heard. He had everything to gain by coming across so mild mannered and he had years to be coached.



I am absolutely shocked that so much of this was allowed into trial. No, her "character" is not relevant as to whether this is suicide or murder. BTW, I'm angry we even have to state this. In NO other instance would such a crime even have been pondered as a suicide. This is not a gunshot to the head where she might have shot herself or something. It doesn't even remotely look like a suicide & the only people saying that initially were two primary POIs.

Adam's character is what's in question, but he's allowed to skirt around what he was arrested for (an "insurance issue"?) and how serious it was and how it was "taken care of..." his words! Er, I mean, summarily dismissed. This should have been pressed, imo. He goes into detail about the stop that caused them to find a warrant -- right on red -- but just leaves it open what the actual charge was. I'm surprised Greer did not push this in cross.

And of course, as to whether Jonah would lie to protect his reputation and his company: CEO Shacknai cooked the books: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/medicis-settles-case-alleging-ceo-shacknai-cooked-the-books/ from the article: "In the settlement, Shacknai and Prygocki appear to have dodged a major bullet. When almost identical allegations surfaced at Bristol-Myers Squibb (BMY) in 2002, it led to criminal indictments." Yet Jonah says, "it's a technical issue." Kind of like Adam's "insurance issue."

Nevertheless, these guys get to skate while they talk to every ex-boyfriend of Rebecca? Again, I'm shocked this was allowed in. I'm sorry to hear Caitlin's impressions of it because sounds like it's influenced her opinion of Rebecca's stability & she might be indicative of how the jury hears it. In Greer's cross of Jonah, what you actually hear is she's a calm, caring and giving person who lives a very healthy lifestyle.



Mary does note that RZ leaves doors unlocked frequently, though I've heard the front door automatically locks unless you specifically unlock it, so doesn't seem like she would have done that. As for the back door being unlocked, Adam mentioned that in the interview before the polygraph, so he knew that door was unlocked. I believe in years prior, he said he was going to the main house to get coffee, now he says out to a coffee shop. I believe this to give a sense he had boundaries and was respectful of not going into the main house. I wonder if this discrepancy was highlighted for jury.

By the way, according to Adams testimony he woke up at 6 or 6:30. He just laid in bed, killing time until the light came, masturbated and took a shower, then walked out to find Rebecca and call 911 at 6:45. That was a really long half hour, wasn't it?

Was Rebecca kidnapped? Was she held by a boyfriend? Or by someone else? Was there a police report? Is this something Greer was able to discredit on cross?

Who was this second boyfriend?

 

[Verboten]

Was Rebecca kidnapped? Was she held by a boyfriend? Or by someone else? Was there a police report? Is this something Greer was able to discredit on cross?

Who was this second boyfriend?

What was Adam actually arrested for? How serious a crime was it? Must have been very serious, since he would only be honest about why they stopped him and found the warrant, but refused to be upfront about what he was actually arrested for (obfuscation). Who "took care of it..." (his words) for him? Same person taking care of this now?

 

[Gilgamesh]

I have not followed this case is closely as most of you guys have. My question, because I have not seen it on the threads is .... was there testimony that the lividity Matched the way she was laying on the ground. As a juror I would want to know that for a fact. if it did not match up in any way, that would be all bets were off as far as even considering that that was the way she fell when she died.

Excellent point. I remember Anne Bremner saying that RZ died on her back because that’s where the livity settled. If she had died from hanging , the lividity would have pooled in her lower legs. This is huge.

 

[stmarysmead]

What was Adam actually arrested for? How serious a crime was it? Must have been very serious, since he would only be honest about why they stopped him and found the warrant, but refused to be upfront about what he was actually arrested for (obfuscation). Who "took care of it..." (his words) for him? Same person taking care of this now?

All important to know. I’m just asking if any of you who have followed this case for years can explain this testimony about kidnapping. And if Greer was able to discredit it. For someone who has not followed this case, likemany of the jurors, this is a very curious new detail.

 

[Gilgamesh]

Somebody here said they saw a can of Dr. Pepper on the table in front of AS in the courtroom. Just saying.

I bet that RZ was NOT a soda drinker since she was so health conscious. Those things are horrible for you. I know that I won’t drink them for the sake of my health. I’d be extremely surprised if Rebecca drank them.

 

[Seattle1]

The paragraph in bold, from as early as July 25th, as always stuck with me.

I missed this 2011 news report, thank you! For clarification, JS no longer owns Medicis today and no worries.

 

[Imp]

Was Rebecca kidnapped? Was she held by a boyfriend? Or by someone else? Was there a police report? Is this something Greer was able to discredit on cross?

Who was this second boyfriend?

Rebecca obviously made bad decisions when it came to men, especially the last man in her life. Many women make bad decisions when it comes to men.

And so?

 

[Imp]

What was Adam actually arrested for? How serious a crime was it? Must have been very serious, since he would only be honest about why they stopped him and found the warrant, but refused to be upfront about what he was actually arrested for (obfuscation). Who "took care of it..." (his words) for him? Same person taking care of this now?

I know, right? Let's see ... Rebecca is dead, and for some reason her past relationships with men are of primary interest to some people (apparently including Rother?). Adam, on the other hand, is not only alive, but is accused of murder, and no one's interested in his past run-ins with the law?

Seriously?