Wrongful death trial begins. Trial coverage and discussion

[bourne]

Totally agree, and this would be *very critical* to establish using Max's medical records and testimony from his caregivers, if the criminal investigation were ever to be reopened (which I highly doubt). Max's caregivers could ALSO provide insight into the dynamics that were being displayed to caregivers between Jonah and Dina at the hospital-- was there anger at each other? Anger at Rebecca? Was anyone verbalizing that Rebecca or XZ hurt Max? What questions were they asking docs and nurses? What was their interaction with each other, and with staff individually? What was their demeanor?

However, since Dina's comments are in evidence that she believed Max was recovering, it provides support to excuse Dina from the lawsuit (in combination with the lately found video evidence of her at Rady). And for Mr. Greer to argue that if Rebecca thought Max was at least stable, or improving slightly, she would be less likely to have committed an impulsive, very strange suicide, that looked like a murder.

The "Max was getting better" story from Dina in her deposition is inconsistent with Jonah's claim he phoned Rebecca with a late night "he took a turn for the worse" VM, which precipitated a guilt- induced suicide.

If we were to have access to Max's medical records, and testimony from his doctors, it might reveal evidence that could support a conspiracy to murder her, or support the murder without a conspiracy.

Right now, Mr. Greer has to go with what is in evidence, and that is Dina's comments that she "thought" Max was improving.

The really interesting thing is that the most consistent explanation is that Max was in dire condition, with a grim prognosis from the time of admission, to the time of Rebecca's death. Then Jonah's alleged voicemail contents are consistent with what Dina told the writer about the day of Rebecca's death-- that she was on her way in to get the results of Max's latest MRI, which showed the basal ganglia necrosis. And consistent from the seriousness of the situation as we know it from the EMS report. And consistent with Max's eventual diagnosis of brain death with organ donation less than 48 hours after Rebecca's death.

Max's actual condition (as documented in his unavailable medical records, and by testimony of his doctors) provides justification and a motive for Rebecca's murder and/or a conspiracy to murder her. OR-- provides a motive for the circumstances of an astonishing and impulsive, and elaborate, suicide scene-- but without any actual evidence that she ever had any suicidal ideation or history of any kind of mental illness.

And it's also why it would be so important to know if Adam ever took Ambien the night of Rebecca's death.

That's why Max's actual condition is so very relevant to Rebecca's death circumstances, IMO.

I believe irrespective of Max’s condition, the murderer was hell bent on condemning and punishing Rebecca to the fullest and that meant assaulting, torturing, hanging and humiliating Rebecca in death.

 

[Seattle1]

Can you verify that info from Pari's deposition? Thanks!

BettyP - most of the court filings are publicly available for viewing for a couple of days before fees charged (and when I read). I'm sorry I can't provide for you but you can purchase directly from court.

Also, be reminded that both sides were filing amended complaints, etc. as late as Feb 28th and/or right up to trial so there will be a lot of info coming out in trial which may appear contrary to what we've come to believe true. This is a now a "legal fight" so some things new to us should be viewed as strategy or beneficial position for justice for Rebecca. Thanks for your support.

 

[bourne]

Where did you get the idea that Jonah was dating another woman while still dating Rebecca when Rebecca was found murdered? TIA

Ok. I read Cynic’s attachment to the rebuttal by Greer to Adam’s summary judgment. In it, Rebecca’s sister Mary and Jonah’s ex-wife Dina’s depos apparently had stated Jonah was dating some other woman than Rebecca and that woman later married Jonah.

I am very surprised at this info since neither Mary nor Dina had alluded to it on Dr. Phil show or any other news commentary.

I admit I am very shocked at this.

 

[Seattle1]

I'd like to remind everybody that both sides were filing amended complaints, answers, etc. right up to day of trial. As such, there has been and will continue to be things coming out in court that may be contrary to what we've come to believe true.

Please allow some room for trial strategy. For example, at trial, AS will call defense expert Dr Alan Berman, MD who is an expert in the fields of clinical psychology and suicidology. He will explain that suicidology is the scientific study of suicidal behavior, the causes of suicidality, and suicide prevention. We should expect Dr. Berman to testify that Rebecca had a number of chronic, acute, and contributory risk factors that put her at risk for suicide. Nobody is more aware of this than CK Greer so please trust that some of the surprises today are in preparation for what is to come from the defense. Please reference Greer response to AS Summary Judgment (noting info not previously shared with the Sheriffs Dept or the Medical Examiner) generously provided up-thread by Cynic.

Thanks to all contributors for your support.

 

[Imp]

I'd like to remind everybody that both sides were filing amended complaints, answers, etc. right up to day of trial. As such, there have been and will continue to be things coming out in court that may be contrary to what we've come to believe true.

Please allow some room for trial strategy. For example, at trial, AS will call defense expert Dr Alan Berman, MD who is an expert in the fields of clinical psychology and suicidology. He will explain that suicidology is the scientific study of suicidal behavior, the causes of suicidality, and suicide prevention. We should expect Dr. Berman to testify that Rebecca had a number of chronic, acute, and contributory risk factors that put her at risk for suicide. Nobody is more aware of this than CK Greer so please trust that some of the surprises today are in preparation for what is to come from the defense. Thanks to all contributors for your support.

Great info, Seattle1. I'm pickin up what you're puttin down!

 

[Imp]

Ok. I read Cynic’s attachment to the rebuttal by Greer to Adam’s summary judgment. In it, Rebecca’s sister Mary and Jonah’s ex-wife Dina’s depos apparently had stated Jonah was dating some other woman than Rebecca and that woman later married Jonah.

I am very surprised at this info since neither Mary nor Dina had alluded to it on Dr. Phil show or any other news commentary.

I admit I am very shocked at this.

It threw me a little, too, bourne. But I recall there has been internet chatter for years about issues in the relationship, specifically, IIRC, with regard to the older Shacknai children's treatment of RZ.

It's also worth considering this may have been a lopsided relationship from the start, with Rebecca much more invested than Jonah initially. Perhaps RZ was a "rebound relationship" for Jonah during/after the contentious divorce with Dina.

Entirely speculation on my part, obviously.

 

[Carioca]

I agree! And all of this spin, this creative re-writing of facts and history, serve one end: to confuse and confound the truth about Rebecca's death. There is no other way to read it. Somebody (or somebodies) needs the truth to be different than it is. How many suspects of murder are known to have used professional PR firms, 20/20, People Magazine, Dr. Phil, blogspots, sock-puppets, non-profits, the Wayback Machine, grieving relatives, vicious defenders, friends, the SD Sheriff, the Coronado PD, the SD's Chief of Police, and his wife...all of these, and more, or even any of them, to manage and direct the public's perception of his/her/their crime? Because this one has. I can see him, just the shadow of his hand, in all of those places.

It's a clue. Is this Adam's hand? That he is said to be a writer, fits with the evidence of media manipulation we see. Adam stands out from the other people in this case because of his absence. It's like he's been photoshopped out of the scene. Written out. No fingerprints. No DNA. No evidence of him a the scene, but for his word. Or, as you point out, anywhere else in life. It's weird.

Exceptionally well summarized, thank you coastal! The countless hours so many of us spent scouring for even a tidbit on AS. Nada. Zilch. He ghosted on to the island, he ghosted off, remaining uncannily elusive until now.

So where is the girlfriend he said he called the night RZ was murdered, the one he mentions while taking the lie detector test? Did Gore and his cohorts get a deposition from her about his possible propensity for bondage or violence or his demeanor that night?

Whose slight of hand made it possible for Memphis-based tugboat captain wannabe creative writer AS to fly below the radar these past six plus years, unencumbered by having to answer for his actions to either the media or SDSO or both? That we should all enjoy such privilege and be able to wield such influence.

Disgusting. Revolting. This entire Coronado Masquerade makes me sick, as it should all San Diegans. Reminds me of the sham street magician with his 3 cups when with a quick slight of a hand he moves the cup that covers the bean. Just when you think you've chosen the right cup, anxious to win the bet, he grins his all-knowing arrogant smile and gleefully shows you the cup is empty. Constant Subterfuge.

My heart goes out to the Zahaus. No one should be forced to endure such horror, especially in the so-called land of the free!

 

[nanwv]

"A. I believe that the cause of death, with reasonable medical probability, would have been strangulation based upon the fracture of the cricoid to a great extent, based upon other findings which have been discussed, and maybe some which we have not touched upon in full."

So, if Rebecca died by strangulation, all the theatrics with the ropes, paint, message on the door, hanging from the balcony, fake cutting down, (trying to brain bleach regarding the bloody knife) was all an attempt to cover up the strangulation?

 

[Imp]

"A. I believe that the cause of death, with reasonable medical probability, would have been strangulation based upon the fracture of the cricoid to a great extent, based upon other findings which have been discussed, and maybe some which we have not touched upon in full."

So, if Rebecca died by strangulation, all the theatrics with the ropes, paint, message on the door, hanging from the balcony, fake cutting down, (trying to brain bleach regarding the bloody knife) was all an attempt to cover up the strangulation?

Whipping out my Occam's Razor, I'd say the very best way to try to cover evidence of a murder by strangulation is with a staged self-inflicted hanging by the neck. The creative license the killer(s) used to stage the rest of the scene and Rebecca's body seems to be, to your point, theatrics.

Then when the killer(s) realized the theatrics were gumming up the works and making the "suicide" look more like what it was instead of what they wanted everyone to believe, the spin on each aspect of the staged scene began, along with the assassination of RZ's character all over the internet and elsewhere.

 

[MSCJgrad]

With all of this chatter about the lack of info on AS, how online writings of him have completely disappeared over the years, etc., it reminds me of a prominent local architect who got busted for child a few years back. The local newspaper published an article detailing how they had been contacted by a PR firm that explained that they were requesting the newspaper to remove articles from their archives which mentioned the sex offender and the architecture firm in the same article. Apparently, having someone be indicted and convicted of possessing and sharing child is bad for business. The newspaper published their article to explain why they would not be removing former articles from their archives, as it is against the values and responsibilities of a good journalist. I am assuming that a similar situation occurred here, except the firm hired by the S's was more successful in getting the information removed that they were wanting to be *gone*.

https://www.news-leader.com/story/n...5/19/watchdog-sorry-rewrite-history/27520619/

 

[Waitaminute]

Where did you get the idea that Jonah was dating another woman while still dating Rebecca when Rebecca was found murdered? TIA

I wish I could remember Bourne, sorry, it was within the last 2-3 days, a link here somewhere took me to a news article that said that their relationship was 'basically over and Jonah was already dating the woman he would later marry'. true or not I cant say, but it was in the article. the last few days I've only read here at websleuths and greer's tweets, so If I run across it again, which I will try to do, I will link it up.

(late edit) I guess it must have been that summary judgement. I followed the link this morning and read it. and thought how expendable Rebecca must have really been at this point.

 

[MsFacetious]

Do we know how Becky's sister is doing? Witnessing Max's death and then losing her sister.... she's got to be traumatized.

Boy, this business about Max's actual condition from the time of his fall to the night RZ was murdered, what the doctors told his parents, Dina's and Jonah's interpretation of what they were told, and the voicemail Jonah supposedly left for Rebecca after midnight, is beyond confusing. I'm most interested in the voicemail. Did he really leave it? If so, what did he say in it? Why didn't RZ take the call? Why was the rumored voicemail message erased? Do Jonah's phone records indicate a call to RZ at that time? Why would he leave her a message that supposedly contradicts what he and Dina were told by doctors?

Sheesh.

Maybe she was in the shower when he called?
Maybe she was hogtied?
Maybe she was already dead?

Exactly, why didn’t RZ take the call from Jonah? Maybe she was “tied up,” so to speak. Perhaps the murderer was busy with Rebecca and then later accessed Jonah’s voicemail and erased it, thinking it would never be found? I assume Jonah’s phone record confirmed he made the last call to Rebecca.

It is also possible that Becky never listened to the voicemail HERSELF. There isn't further use of her phone after that right?

So someone with access to her phone could easily call and listen to voicemail. Many people don't password protect when calling from the device itself.

Many people also delete messages after hearing them unless they contain phone number or address they need to recall.

I don't think the fact that this message was heard and deleted proves it was Becky who did it.

It threw me a little, too, bourne. But I recall there has been internet chatter for years about issues in the relationship, specifically, IIRC, with regard to the older Shacknai children's treatment of RZ.

It's also worth considering this may have been a lopsided relationship from the start, with Rebecca much more invested than Jonah initially. Perhaps RZ was a "rebound relationship" for Jonah during/after the contentious divorce with Dina.

Entirely speculation on my part, obviously.

Just my impression but it sounds to me like every single relationship Jonah has had was lopsided. I don't think he was ever invested in a relationship to the extent the other party was. That's just not something he's capable of.

 

[Seattle1]

Thanks for that information. Not surprising. JS has a reputation as a serial philanderer, not very stable when it comes to interpersonal relationships. Good for RZ that she was planning to move on, such a shame she never got the chance to live the rest of her life. She had a lot of potential.

I previously posted this lawsuit & trial exhibits a couple years ago in another thread re. JS character and women. More than 200 women incorporated this class action suit, and JS was personally named as a major offender.


Valeant Unit Settles Sex Discrimination Claims For $7.2M
By Suevon Lee

(July 12, 2016, 4:56 PM EDT) -- Valeant-owned Medicis Pharmaceutical Corp. will pay $7.2 million to settle a class action alleging gender discrimination and other claims brought by female sales representatives of the medical cosmetics company, according to a final settlement order signed by a D.C. federal judge Monday.

The final settlement order, which includes $2.8 million in class counsel attorneys’ fees, resolves allegations of disparate compensation and bonuses, a sexually hostile workplace environment and retaliation by scores of women once employed by the formerly Scottsdale, Arizona-headquartered Medicis.

https://www.law360.com/articles/816516/valeant-unit-settles-sex-discrimination-claims-for-7-2m

 

[nanwv]

Thanks Seattle. I missed this interesting piece of the JS puzzle. Doesn't think much of women, personally or professionally, does he.

 

[iSleuthWell]

Hello to all. those who have been involved in directing this case. I have been following since it has happened and this board has kept me very informed. I have yet to chime in with my opinion or insight, but would like to get some clarification on a few things. I am trying to recall from memory so please forgive me if I am missing any facts. I am having trouble coming to understand how both knives submitted to evidence were found upstairs (pics from LE show this being the case); Did a third knife (the one Adam used to cut Rebecca down) exist? Was it submitted to evidence? If not, and Adam used one of the two knives from the bedroom, how did it end up there? If there was a third knife, was it logged as evidence? Was it tested for prints? Am I missing something? If anyone can point me in the right direction, that would be great. I will pull up the LE evidence log just to make sure I am not mistaken. Thanks

 

[iSleuthWell]

Hello to all. those who have been involved in directing this case. I have been following since it has happened and this board has kept me very informed. I have yet to chime in with my opinion or insight, but would like to get some clarification on a few things. I am trying to recall from memory so please forgive me if I am missing any facts. I am having trouble coming to understand how both knives submitted to evidence were found upstairs (pics from LE show this being the case); Did a third knife (the one Adam used to cut Rebecca down) exist? Was it submitted to evidence? If not, and Adam used one of the two knives from the bedroom, how did it end up there? If there was a third knife, was it logged as evidence? Was it tested for prints? Am I missing something? If anyone can point me in the right direction, that would be great. I will pull up the LE evidence log just to make sure I am not mistaken. Thanks

I found that there was a third knife logged as evidence in the search warrant. I haven't found anything about whether or not it was tested for DNA. If it were tested, I would imagine that Adam's DNA or prints would have been found.

 

[Pi2016]

My comments in blue:

Thanks KZ for the very thorough explanation. I can agree with you that Max was in horrible and devastating shape from the time he fell and left the mansion.

I just don't get why Dina maintains to this day that at the time of Rebecca's death that she was still feeling hopeful. Yet Jonah claims he left a voicemail for Rebecca that Max wouldn't recover?

I don't see how it can be both ways. Is Dina lying? If so why?

Is Jonah lying? Seems odd to me that between dinner and 12:50 AM some doctor delivered devastating news to Jonah, but that doctor has never been named, and Dina apparently wasn't let in on it?

The 12:50 voicemail is going to be important to the jury imo. That VM is what the defense will say prompted Rebecca to do the unthinkable. Looks to me like Greer is going to use Dina's assertions that all hope was not lost at that point, thus no reason for Rebecca to get suicidal over it.

I wonder if Jonah will be testifying?

 

[Pi2016]

Case No. 37-2013-00075418-CU-PO-CTL
PLAINTIFF’S MEMORANDUM OF POINTS AND AUTHORITIES IN OPPOSITION OF DEFENDANT ADAM SHACKNAI’S MOTION FOR SUMMARY JUDGMENT, OR IN THE ALTERNATIVE, MOTION FOR SUMMARY ADJUDICATION
ARGUMENT

4. Rebecca was not given bad news that evening.
Dr. Lucas states in his report that: “despite no history of depression, the decedent was found the morning after she apparently learned that her boyfriend’s son - who was under her care when his fall occurred two days prior - would likely not survive.” (Erins Decl. Ex. G, Lucas Report at pg. 3). However, the tests that had been performed on six-year-old Max Shacknai prior to Rebecca’s death showed that he was not getting any worse, and in fact there was slight improvement in his condition. (Greer Decl. Ex. M, Medical Records pg. 505). Dina Shacknai, Max’s mother, was at the hospital with Max from the afternoon of July 12th through midmorning on July 13th, and testified that the doctors confirmed to her on the evening of July 12th that cautious optimism was still appropriate regarding Max, and they would not know if there was any change in his condition until tests were performed the following day. (Greer Decl. Ex. G, Dina Shacknai Depo. at 102:17-19). Thus, there is substantial evidence refuting the existence of the single fact that the Sheriff’s Department and Dr. Lucas relied upon in opining that Rebecca had a motivation for suicide, i.e., that prior to her death she was told Max was going to die.

It should also be noted that the emotional bond between Jonah Shacknai and Rebecca hadalready deteriorated by the time she was murdered to the point where she was considering leaving him and he was already dating the woman he would eventually marry. (Greer Decl., Ex. I, Mary Zahau- Loehner Depo. at pgs. 62:24-63:24; Ex. G, Dina Shacknai Depo. at 154:20-155:22). This information, which tends to undermine the perception that Rebecca and Jonah were still madly in love and the injury to Max was therefore so painful Rebecca was compelled to end her life, was not shared with the Sheriffs Department or the Medical Examiner.

Thanks Lash. I wonder if there will be conflicting testimony between Dina and Jonah concerning the perception of Max's condition?

It burns me that Jonah will be able to say whatever he wants concerning that message and he won't be challenged because it no longer exists.

As to Jonah and Rebecca's relationship- I also read this:

According to Mary’s deposition testimony, Rebecca was thinking of leaving Jonah in May 2011. “She felt like she wasn’t getting the appreciation she deserved for all the hard work she did, or respect from his other kids,” attorney Greer says. “She felt he didn’t back her the way he should.”

From this long and informative article:

https://www.townandcountrymag.com/s...6/shaknai-deaths-mystery-coronado-california/

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Thanks KZ for the very thorough explanation. I can agree with you that Max was in horrible and devastating shape from the time he fell and left the mansion.

I just don't get why Dina maintains to this day that at the time of Rebecca's death that she was still feeling hopeful. Yet Jonah claims he left a voicemail for Rebecca that Max wouldn't recover?

I don't see how it can be both ways. Is Dina lying? If so why?

Is Jonah lying? Seems odd to me that between dinner and 12:50 AM some doctor delivered devastating news to Jonah, but that doctor has never been named, and Dina apparently wasn't let in on it?

The 12:50 voicemail is going to be important to the jury imo. That VM is what the defense will say prompted Rebecca to do the unthinkable. Looks to me like Greer is going to use Dina's assertions that all hope was not lost at that point, thus no reason for Rebecca to get suicidal over it.

I wonder if Jonah will be testifying?

Fairly new to this case and have a couple of questions please. If that was a voicemail, what time did her phone call into voicemail to pick it up? And what was the estimated time of death on the autopsy report?

 

[Pi2016]

Fairly new to this case and have a couple of questions please. If that was a voicemail, what time did her phone call into voicemail to pick it up? And what was the estimated time of death on the autopsy report?

Voicemail was checked at 12:50 AM and time of death was estimated to be 3AM.