Wrongful death trial begins. Trial coverage and discussion

[Inparadise]

Was there a house phone? I can't recall if that ever came up. Curious if there was a phone in the main house and/or the guest house. My opinion is leaning towards the fact that Adam "visited" Rebecca much earlier in the night. Say around midnight when the screams were heard. I like the theory that he killed her then, after a struggle and left her in the room still hog tied. I can't get past the fact that Pfingst was actually there in the evening! What time? We know N was there trying to talk to Rebecca. Could she have heard something and called JS or Dina? Then a lawyer was called? That timing gives Adam plenty of time to come to his senses, figure out a plan, and to clean up. Also gives Jonah time to start the clean up machine. Somehow Pfingst knew to try to contact Adam first thing that morning. No way was Jonah surprised when Adam texted him that Rebecca was dead. He didn't even bother calling Adam to find out details!

Again, curious if there was house phone and if so, did anyone get the call records? If I recall, Nina & Dina's phone records were looked at but I can't remember the time frame. I don't know if I have the energy to visit all of those old threads!

Anyway, just trying to wrap my head around that piece of the puzzle. No way do I think Adam came up with the "clean up" all on his own.

Yes, there was a house phone.

 

[vlpate]

BBM: This "voicemail bs" story has two oddities: it didn't show up in Rebecca's voicemail AND it didn't register on Jonah's phone that he made the call. Impossible with the technology in 2011 that it would not show up on either phone.

It is possible for the call not to show up on RZ's if her phone was off and/or calls were going straight to voicemail. The call came in at 12:30 and she checked her VM at 12:50. I believe the call was on JS phone logs, I just checked and I can't find it stated either way now.

 

[vlpate]

No, but the bias I meant was for the defense. I don't think the steak knife/rape theory has been mentioned because there is no evidence to back it up. JMO

 

[vlpate]

We'll find out when we have our next discussion with Keith Greer.

As for your previous question about the black gloves taken into evidence from the crime scene, you can find them listed on the search warrant. Here's a link to those:

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/s...les-here-No-discussions&p=8513077#post8513077

The information has been variously reported as a pair of black gloves and a single black latex glove. The second glove of that pair is missing, possibly thrown away. As the DNA expert testified, the absence of DNA and prints at the crime scene indicates the killer wore gloves. Statistically, it's quite common for criminals to use gloves while committing a crime like murder.

Since SDSO doesn't report any boxes of black latex gloves in the house, its suggested the killer brought them to the crime scene.

We actually don't know what other gloves, or evidence for that matter, existed in the mansion. LE was pretty focused on treating this as a suicide and gathered up mostly items that helped support their theory. As you probably know, the house has since been drastically remodeled, any remaining evidence is long gone.

Yes, I knew about the black glove(s) - but IIRC, there was a legit reason for the glove being there, according to LE. At the time I remember thinking it could have been left over from a hair dye kit. I usually only use one if I am doing roots only.

So there was not another set of gloves...just one glove. Thanks!

 

[inthedark14]

Yes, I knew about the black glove(s) - but IIRC, there was a legit reason for the glove being there, according to LE. At the time I remember thinking it could have been left over from a hair dye kit. I usually only use one if I am doing roots only.

So there was not another set of gloves...just one glove. Thanks!

No. There was a pair of black gloves and a black latex glove. Per the search warrant released by sdso.

Please kindly link where it was stated this was left from a hair dye kit?

TIA

ALWAYS MOOView attachment warrant_41227(1).pdf

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[Seattle1]

It is possible for the call not to show up on RZ's if her phone was off and/or calls were going straight to voicemail. The call came in at 12:30 and she checked her VM at 12:50. I believe the call was on JS phone logs, I just checked and I can't find it stated either way now.

I believe it possible for call not to register/show up on RZ call log based on my own experience. In 2011, my mobile carrier was ATT and I could reply directly to another ATT users missed call which would go direct to their voicemail. The call would also not ring on their phone or show up on their call log. Only evidence of my call was the voicemail. In comparison, I think it functioned much like today's "visual voicemail."

 

[vlpate]

No. There was a pair of black gloves and a black latex glove. Per the search warrant released by sdso.

Please kindly link where it was stated this was left from a hair dye kit?

TIA

ALWAYS MOOView attachment 131202

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Thanks...I hadn't seen this in a while. So one pair and one single latex. Seems the killer would have disposed of the gloves after all the other trouble he went to in order to make sure his DNA/hair/fingerprints/shoeprints were nowhere to be found.
As for my source for hair dye, the comment was prefaced by "I remember thinking at the time".

 

[kittychi]

Nope, as I recall, it was never found or accounted for. Never. Another of those things that was "glossed over" by SDSO.

 

[Seattle1]

I understand that yesterday the jury heard DS video deposition and 911 call by Zena. Was this 911 call when Max injured ever released to public? I don't recall hearing any 911 call other than AS. TIA.

 

[Betty P]

No, but the bias I meant was for the defense. I don't think the steak knife/rape theory has been mentioned because there is no evidence to back it up. JMO

Yes, there is evidence to back it up. It was tested by a professional lab. DNA and menstrual blood were found on all four sides of the knife handle.

Greet talks about it in his interview with Tricia. He claims when he brought up the evidence to SDSO, they became difficult to work with, no longer cooperated. He said that SDSO had tested the knife and knew something was on the handle.

More news articles

https://crimewatchdaily.com/2018/01...eath-ruled-suicide-by-sheriffs-investigators/

https://www.10news.com/news/evidenc...-zahau-disproves-suicide-family-attorney-says

 

[inthedark14]

Thanks...I hadn't seen this in a while. So one pair and one single latex. Seems the killer would have disposed of the gloves after all the other trouble he went to in order to make sure his DNA/hair/fingerprints/shoeprints were nowhere to be found.
As for my source for hair dye, the comment was prefaced by "I remember thinking at the time".

Sorry I missed that qualifier about you remembering thinking about that. I think a lot of us have a little bit of pstd when it comes to this case and are sometimes too quick to respond.

Anyway glad to help.

:blushing:

ALWAYS MOO

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

 

[Betty P]

Thanks...I hadn't seen this in a while. So one pair and one single latex. Seems the killer would have disposed of the gloves after all the other trouble he went to in order to make sure his DNA/hair/fingerprints/shoeprints were nowhere to be found.
As for my source for hair dye, the comment was prefaced by "I remember thinking at the time".

Perhaps the killer did dispose of the gloves. IIRC, the DNA expert testified in the trial that the lack of DNA and fingerprint evidence was the result of someone wiping down/cleaning up the crime scene. If you listen to Tricia's interviews with Keith Greer, he gives regular updates.

 

[Imp]

In the Feb 2017 video interview with Greer, he says the evidence had been locked away since 2011. Greer was revealing it for the first time.

https://youtu.be/ns7xnlaPRzI

I'm seriously amazed there was evidence for Mr. Greer to find.

 

[Imp]

I would like for someone reporting from a trial to just give us the facts without obvious bias.

Let me reiterate: Getting actual facts is and has been a significant issue with this case. The "facts" as they were detailed by the "death investigators" and everyone associated with them, are not necessarily the truth.

 

[vlpate]

Perhaps the killer did dispose of the gloves. IIRC, the DNA expert testified in the trial that the lack of DNA and fingerprint evidence was the result of someone wiping down/cleaning up the crime scene. If you listen to Tricia's interviews with Keith Greer, he gives regular updates.

I actually listen every week! Greer said the explanation for lack of AS dna was due to the fact (?) that "some people just don't shed DNA".

As far as wiping down the scene, I don't know how that is possible since DNA and most fingerprints are not visible to the naked eye...he would have needed to discern where her DNA was and where his was in order to wipe away only his.

 

[vlpate]

Let me reiterate: Getting actual facts is and has been a significant issue with this case. The "facts" as they were detailed by the "death investigators" and everyone associated with them, are not necessarily the truth.

I am referring to the trial...not the case itself. I hit "quick reply" when answering the original OP, my apologies.

 

[Imp]

I've never personally been involved in case or witnessed a case where this was an issue so I can't speak to any bias I've seen. IMO it would come down to the juror. Imagine if you were a juror, what would your opinion be from that? A person could see that and think they must be guilty to need that many, or that they must be insanely wealthy, or that they are afraid of the evidence against them. A person could also see that and think it makes their case stronger and their innocence more likely. If it were me in that jury chair I would probably have a negative reaction to that many lawyers and think it's excessive and they must be wealthy and wasteful. It all comes down to a juror's personal bias and what people are generally like in that county, JMO.

That's my thinking as well (and for the record, I'm not an attorney never mind a verified one!). I suspect if this jury gets an inkling that power and payoffs may have played a role in how the investigation into RZ's murder was conducted, Adam's small army of attorneys paid for by his powerful and wealthy brother, might not sit well.

 

[vlpate]

Sorry I missed that qualifier about you remembering thinking about that. I think a lot of us have a little bit of pstd when it comes to this case and are sometimes too quick to respond.

Anyway glad to help.

:blushing:

ALWAYS MOO

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

I understand, everyone here has put in years of work and research -- I was all over this case for the first couple of years, at first totally convinced it was murder to now, straddling the fence, leaning toward suicide. I am hoping there will be a smoking gun because what I have seen so far would not convince me 100% of murder.

 

[Imp]

No, but the bias I meant was for the defense. I don't think the steak knife/rape theory has been mentioned because there is no evidence to back it up. JMO

How is RZ's blood and DNA on the knife handle "no evidence"?

 

[Betty P]

I understand, everyone here has put in years of work and research -- I was all over this case for the first couple of years, at first totally convinced it was murder to now, straddling the fence, leaning toward suicide. I am hoping there will be a smoking gun because what I have seen so far would not convince me 100% of murder.

Might I suggest you spend some time reviewing all the new interviews and news stories that have come out. There's been quite a bit of new evidence revealed since RZ's family defense team reviewed the evidence.

It would be a shame to form an opinion only based on the limited, cherry-picked information provided by SDSO so many years ago Do yourself a favor and catch up!

https://www.spreaker.com/user/triciag/websleuths-radio2-11-18-full-show-greer-