Found Deceased WY - Gabrielle ‘Gabby’ Petito, 22, Grand Teton National Park, 25 Aug 2021 #63

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No. The public wants BL found. The Petitos want BL found. There is a Federal warrant. The parents are a key link. He was at their house. He was handled by them. They even alienated their own daughter in what looks like an attempt to protect BL and cover their actions. He was very possibly enabled by them. So where the hell is he? No sympathy. MOO


I never said I had sympathy for them. In fact I stated that I believe they assisted Brian getting away. I find your tone quite hostile towards me and it is not appreciated nor warranted.

I think we all want Brian found. I certainly do. I want him to go to jail for killing Gabby. I want his parents to pay the price for whatever they have done.

My point is, the tactic isn’t working. Let’s get smart. Let’s find another way to make them make a mistake. Let’s find a way to get them to lead us to Brian. This is just driving them underground.

No sympathy for them whatsoever.

MOO
 
If Brian is alive, he ran to his childhood seeking comfort. First mom and dad, then where? Didn’t he grow up in NY? If he’s alive, he’s somewhere familiar that helps him feel warm and safe. Where did the go to family vacation? Somewhere up yonder in the NY forestry? imo
Does anyone here remember the part of the moab video where BL says they were going to work on an organic farm in Oregon (I believe) Wonder if thats where he could be
 
Can anyone explain what “thumbs up” strangulation is relative to:
Is is application of pressure to the carotid arteries, obstructing blood flow?
Or the actual crushing of the windpipe obstructing airflow?

Both?
 
This whole thing with reporters and protestors harassing the Laundrie’s is getting old quite frankly.

I don’t care for the Laundrie’s one bit and I see them as complicit in Brian getting away. Yup, I said it, I think they helped.

So long as they are under the microscope they will never slip up. If they are allowed to relax, get comfortable, maybe, just maybe, they’ll make a mistake. That’s never going to happen as long as this nonsense continues.

If the only story these reporters can come up with is that CL cut his grass today then it’s time to move on. Time for a new tactic. Go for a different angle.

This has become beyond ridiculous.

MOO

Agreed! The idea that this is pressuring them is insane. They aren’t bothered by this at all.
 
Hypothetical scenario:
Woman beat down for years in front of her children. Woman never fights back. She fears if she does in front of children - children will become victims. Finally, one day after a severe beat down the night before, woman believes children out of house. Man wakes up and walks in room. Woman, finally alone and releasing instincts - pulls a knife out of the drawer - points it at him declaring she’ll kill him if he ever hurts her again. Woman and man hear a gasp and look around. Child standing there telling woman she is proud of her for finally fighting back. Man doesn’t hit woman again.

Hypothetical:
Woman is desperate to stop man from ever hurting another of her children, thinking about it all night, pulls knife out of drawer as he walks in. He comes toward her again in familiar stance. She’s not gonna let him hurt her again. She lunges at man and stabs him. She is arrested. Children alone with man.

*there isn’t a one size fit all answer…there are so many directions this could go…
No1 - won't happen. He will just be more careful and the children won't be around forever.
No2 - she will be charged with murder, but would most probably be found guilty of manslaughter in the UK.

There have been a couple of cases here where woman have finally fought back.
 
I do not think he killed her on purpose!

What does 'blind with rage' mean?
Rage is a destructive action. It is intended to hurt, actually break someone or something. It is also blind and the attack is often against an innocent helpless person or child. We speak of a person being 'in a blind rage,' or being 'blind with rage.' Rage is also explosive, which means that it cannot be easily steered once it blows.
Rage

Rage and anger are emotions. Healthy adults have coping mechanisms that prevent them from ACTING on those emotions. It's called impulse control.

Rage is not responsible for Gabby's death, her killer is.
 
If Brian is alive, he ran to his childhood seeking comfort. First mom and dad, then where? Didn’t he grow up in NY? If he’s alive, he’s somewhere familiar that helps him feel warm and safe. Where did the go to family vacation? Somewhere up yonder in the NY forestry? imo
I've only been to NY once and that was in the summer. Is it starting to get cold there now? Granted I'm a desert rat and anything under 90 is cold to me.
 
If Brian is alive, he ran to his childhood seeking comfort. First mom and dad, then where? Didn’t he grow up in NY? If he’s alive, he’s somewhere familiar that helps him feel warm and safe. Where did the go to family vacation? Somewhere up yonder in the NY forestry? imo
I was also wondering where the alternative comfort wold be. The obvious 1st is home - if there is a second, the parents should have a good idea where this is. If he hasn't got an alternative comfort place, then I think he is dead.
 
Good afternoon everyone!

Now that we know the cause of death was manual strangulation, I wanted to add some additional information about what could happen next. Hang on, this is going to be a long (but hopefully informative) post.

DISCLAIMER: I am not a lawyer or forensic pathologist, nor do I claim to know exactly how the autopsy was conducted in this case. These are my own opinions.

Determination of manual strangulation
Upon receiving the body of a victim who died by strangulation, it is up to the coroner to determine the method of strangulation used. Autopsies in all three forms of strangulation––ligature, manual, and hanging––commonly reveal hemorrhages in the soft tissue of the neck as well as fractures of the hyoid bone and/or the thyroid cartilage, all of which can be used to reconstruct the method used and the sequence of events which transpired (Gascho et al. 85). Petechial bleeding (i.e., subcutaneous bleeding in the eyelids) is also typical in all three types of strangulation (Deininger-Czermak et al. 99). Interestingly, the presence of lymph node hemorrhage is a distinct diagnostic sign indicating manual strangulation as the manner of death as it is not present in cases of hanging (Yen et al. 509).

Given that all three types of strangulation share so many commonalities, additional examination in the form of postmortem CT and MRI scans are frequently used to more accurately determine the manner of death, which is what happened in Gabby's case. In conjunction with the standard autopsy measures, Gabby's autopsy consisted of a whole-body CT scan as well as examinations by both a forensic pathologist and forensic anthropologist. Postmortem CT scans are used to detect pathologies, injuries, fractures, and foreign bodies while postmortem MRI scans are employed to get a more detailed look at soft tissue lesions such as bruises (Gascho et al. 85). The fact that the Teton County Coroner undertook a postmortem CT rather than an MRI suggests to me that the autopsy revealed a fracture(s) in her neck which conclusively suggested manual strangulation, since MRIs are usually relied upon in suspicious cases (Deininger-Czermak et al. 102).

Possible physical evidence implicating Brian
Unfortunately, despite the up-close-and-personal nature of manual strangulation, evidence such as hand marks and fingerprints are difficult to match and are generally inconclusive in the absence of distinctive physical abnormalities (Kristensen, Lynnerup, & Sejrsen 383). Additionally, in 55.9% of fatal manual or ligature strangulation cases the associated violence is insufficient to produce forensic evidence aside from a mildly disturbed scene (Cartwright 297)

Although it is possible Brian's DNA was found on Gabby's neck, due to the fickle nature of DNA evidence and the conditions in which her body was left it is unlikely his DNA will be recovered. DNA transferred from the offender to the victim and vice versa can be recovered and amplified for at least 10 days after the contact, but conclusive identification is usually hindered by the presence of secondary/tertiary DNA profiles (Rutty 170). In addition to the offender's DNA being transferred to the victim's neck during manual strangulation, the offender's DNA and third party (or more) DNA from direct contact and/or contact with an object is also deposited, making it next to impossible to obtain conclusive results (Rutty 172). For example, one experimental study found that during a simulated assault, 23% of neck areas swabbed showed nondonor alleles and 5% showed six or more nondonor alleles (Graham and Rutty 1077).

If Brian strangled Gabby in the past, there is a possibility that her body "recorded" that history of domestic violence. Increased mobility of one side of the hyoid bone without associated hemorrhage visible to the naked eye points to a prior strangulation incident which can be confirmed by using microscopy to identify the healing fracture (Davison and Williams 310). The discovery of such a fracture would help establish a pattern of abusive behavior beyond the Moab traffic stop.

The legal case against Brian
Yesterday on this thread there was some debate over whether or not manual strangulation is prima facie evidence of premeditation, but unfortunately there isn't a clear-cut answer to this. As part of their murder statutes, 29 states, the District of Columbia, and the federal government all employ a premeditation or deliberation formula (Ferzan 84).

In 1994, the Court of Appeal in San Francisco held that while manual strangulation may demonstrate deliberation, "there is nothing about it that inherently demonstrates premeditation" and reduced the first-degree murder conviction of a man convicted of strangling his girlfriend. In another instance of a domestic violence-related fatal strangling of 32-year-old Pennsylvania woman, a judge rejected the prosecution's plea for a first-degree murder
conviction and reduced it to third-degree despite noting that the strangulation pointed to premeditation.

On the other hand, courts have previously recognized that premeditation does not have a time constraint, and have held that even seemingly instantaneous decisions can be classified as premeditated. In the West Virginia case of State v. Schrader, the victim was suddenly stabbed fifty-one times by the defendant following an argument in the gun shop over the authenticity of a German sword. The trial judge informed the jury that "to constitute a willful, deliberate, and premeditated killing, it is not necessary that the intention to kill should exist for any set length of time prior to the actual killing" (Pauley 151-2). The defendant appealed his conviction on the grounds that his crime did not qualify as premeditated, but the West Virginia Supreme Court of Appeals affirmed the conviction on the grounds that "the mental process necessary to constitute 'willful, deliberate, and premeditated' murder can be accomplished. . . in the proverbial 'twinkling of an eye.'"

When it comes to federal law, serious theoretical differences exist within each circuit as to what is considered premeditation (Oberlander 1213). The Federal Sentencing Guidelines established with the passage of the Sentencing Reform Act of 1984 create a "base offense level" which serves as the applicable, legally-binding guideline for a particular offense that acts as the basis for subsequent calculations, but this does not come into play until sentencing (Anderson, Kling, and Stith 279). For a federal felony-murder conviction, codified in 18 U.S.C. § 1111, the government must prove the death of another person and a culpable mens rea ("malice aforethought") for the death were elements of the offense, something which could be difficult in Brian Laundrie's case barring additional evidence such as phone records (Noyes 536).

Sources
Anderson, James M., Jeffrey R. Kling, and Kate Stith. "Measuring Interjudge Sentencing Disparity: Before and After the Federal Sentencing Guidelines." Journal of Law and Economics 42, no. S1 (1999): 271-308

Carmichael, Heather, Ethan Jamison, Kirk A. Bol, Robert McIntyre Jr, and Catherine G. Velopulos. "Premeditated versus “passionate”: patterns of homicide related to intimate partner violence." Journal of Surgical Research 230 (2018): 87-93.

Cartwright, A. J. "Degrees of Violence and Blood Spattering associated with Manual and Ligature Strangulation: a retrospective study." Medicine, Science and the Law 35, no. 4 (1995): 294-302.

Craig, John. "Man faces murder charges for death: Victim's family thinks she was raped, killing was planned." Spokesman-Review [Spokane], 5 March 2004, pg. B4.

"DA blasts ruling on killing." San Francisco Examiner, 21 October 1994, pg. P-8.

Davison, Andrew M., and E. John Williams. "Microscopic evidence of previous trauma to the hyoid bone in a homicide involving pressure to the neck." Forensic Science, Medicine, and Pathology 8, no. 3 (2012): 307-311.

Deininger-Czermak, Eva, Jakob Heimer, Carlo Tappero, Michael J. Thali, and Dominic Gascho. "Postmortem Magnetic Resonance Imaging and Postmortem Computed Tomography in Ligature and Manual Strangulation." American Journal of Forensic Medicine and Pathology 41, no. 2 (2020): 97-103. [WARNING: Graphic images]

Ferzan, Kimberly Kessler. "Plotting Premeditation's Demise." Law and Contemporary Problems 75, no. 2 (2012): 83-108.

Gascho, Dominic, Jakob Heimer, Carlo Tappero, and Sarah Schaerli. "Relevant findings on postmortem CT and postmortem MRI in hanging, ligature strangulation and manual strangulation and their additional value compared to autopsy–a systematic review." Forensic Science, Medicine and Pathology 15, no. 1 (2019): 84-92.

Graham, Eleanor Alison May, and Guy Nathan Rutty. "Investigation into “Normal” Background DNA on Adult Necks: Implications for DNA Profiling of Manual Strangulation Victims." Journal of Forensic Sciences 53, no. 5 (2008): 1074-1082.

Hathaway, Ivan J. "Prosecutors to seek death penalty for killer." Tampa Tribune, 30 March 1989, pg. 1-P.

Kristensen, Mie E., Niels Lynnerup, and Birgitte Sejrsen. "Comparison of Handmarks in Manual Strangulation: An Experimental Study." Journal of Forensic Sciences 51, no. 2 (2006): 381-385.

Malloy, Daniel. "Boyfriend found guilty of third-degree murder." Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, 17 June 2009, pgs. B-1, B-2. [part 1] [part 2]

Mooney, Michael G. "Judge orders Mouser to trial: Bail reduced by half for accused murderer." Modesto Bee, 20 February 1998, pgs. A-1, A-14. [part 1] [part 2]

Noyes, Henry S. "Felony-Murder Doctrine Through the Looking Glass." Indiana Law Review 69, no. 2 (1994): 533-579.

Oberlander, Sharon L. "Departing the Heartland: Should Premeditation Serve as the Basis for Departure from the Federal Sentencing Guidelines for Second-Degree Murder?." Boston University Law Review 78 (1998): 1211-1234.

Pauley, Matthew A. "Murder by Premeditation." American Criminal Law Review 36, no. 2 (1999): 145-169.

Rutty, G. N. "An investigation into the transference and survivability of human DNA following simulated manual strangulation with consideration of the problem of third party contamination." International Journal of Legal Medicine 116, no. 3 (2002): 170-173.

Yen, Kathrin, Michael J. Thali, Emin Aghayev, Christian Jackowski, Wolf Schweitzer, Chris Boesch, Peter Vock, Richard Dirnhofer, and Martin Sonnenschein. "Strangulation Signs: Initial Correlation of MRI, MSCT, and Forensic Neck Findings." Journal of Magnetic Resonance Imaging 22, no. 4 (2005): 501-510.
I’ve gotta come back & fully read this later, but holy MLA…your listing of sources deserves appreciation haha!
 
Peaceful protesting isn't terrorizing, but LE would arrest them if they crossed that line, wouldn't they?
Didn't they fine & remove the bullhorn couplke? So far no other signs of violence, or did I miss something new?

Is putting a bunch of cheap plastic baskets up on someone's private yard peaceful protesting? Nevermind it's such a disgrace to Gabby to just throw what is effectively trash at her former home.
 
I am surprised at my compassion that is seeping through for the Laundrie family. Just a little. Nothing like what I feel for Gabby’s family but in all honesty, I do feel some. I don’t know why because how they have handled this shows zero compassion toward Gabby’s family. As was previously mentioned, making a simple statement that they miss her or have their attorney issue a statement about the sadness they feel without Gabby there and that they pray for peace and comfort for her family would likely shift the public perception of them. Even saying that they have never dealt with anything remotely close to this and may have made insensitive decisions. The silence isn’t working. I also believe ChL is about to boil over. He reminds me a lot of the Anthony dad. Based on what Gabby’s mom said about RL welcoming Gabby and loving her, makes this all the more confusing about their behavior. What can it hurt to show some compassion even if they are protecting their son?
That’s it. All you have said. Hope they read social media and see your post. It was their treatment of Gabby’s parents that shocked me the most.
 
I do not think he killed her on purpose!

What does 'blind with rage' mean?
Rage is a destructive action. It is intended to hurt, actually break someone or something. It is also blind and the attack is often against an innocent helpless person or child. We speak of a person being 'in a blind rage,' or being 'blind with rage.' Rage is also explosive, which means that it cannot be easily steered once it blows.
Rage

 
*knock*
"Yeah?"
"Dominos."
*door opens*
"So, that's no meat and extra cheese?"
"Yeah."
"OK."
* accepts pizza - door closes*
Delivery guy gets into car. Hey! That guy looks like the guy..."
Headline: Fugitive Captured!
Betrayed by his own belly...
MOOing...
 
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