4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #100

[ChatteringBirds]

This tragedy seems to be breaking news:

Police said they responded to King Road for a report of an unconscious person. When officers arrived, they “discovered four individuals who were deceased...”

4 Idaho college students killed in 'targeted attack,' no suspects in custody

Four University of Idaho students were found dead on Sunday, officials said.

abcnews.go.com

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Media Thread/No Discussion
Media Thread/No Discussion #2

Probable Cause Affidavit

Press photo album (compilation courtesy of WS member cujenn81)

Moscow ID Police Department Facebook page

City of Moscow re King Road Homicide

Media Guide to the Idaho Courts

Detectives are looking to develop context for the events and people involved in the four murders at 1122 King Rd in Moscow, Idaho. Anyone who observed notable behavior, has video surveillance, or can provide relevant information about these murders:

• Telephone: 208-883-7180
• Email: tipline@ci.moscow.id.us
• Digital Media: fbi.gov/moscowidaho

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

There is no known, legitimate source to any claim that there was no victim DNA on the knife sheath or that
a bloody glove was found by CSI.

Relevant posts have been removed.

 

[Tricia]

Even IF the sheath belonged to one of the victims-which I don't believe in this case, it's not exculpatory for him because murder victims get murdered with their own guns and knives all the time. Also, there's the fact that he purchased an identical knife on Amazon.

There is a report from Dateline that he bought a Ka-Bar knife from Amazon.
Here is a report discussing the Dateline find.

Bryan Kohberger bought Ka-Bar knife from Amazon months before murders

Accused killer to appear in court for arraignment on four counts of first-degree murder and burglary

www.the-independent.com

If this has already been reported on the thread my apologies.
Tricia

 

[Sillybilly]

All MOO

I don't know how anyone could believe that a sheath laying under a victim for over 8 hours somehow ONLY has a few microscopic skin cells from one person. It's simply not believable in my opinion.

I just hope there is body cam video of LE finding/discovering the 'placed' sheath. I say placed b/c that's what the PCA says.

All MOO

Just jumping off your post CKS and for clarity going forward ...

Numerous members are referring to "underneath" but according to Moscow officer Brett Payne in the PCA:

"I also later noticed what appeared to be a tan leather knife sheath laying on the bed next to Mogen's right side"

 

[Sillybilly]

Just jumping off your post CKS and for clarity going forward ...

Numerous members are referring to "underneath" but according to Moscow officer Brett Payne in the PCA:

"I also later noticed what appeared to be a tan leather knife sheath laying on the bed next to Mogen's right side"

In addition to the above quote from the PCA, a member has brought the following to my attention:

In the June 16 2023 Motion for Protective Order, pg 2, Factual Background, it states:

Law enforcement found a Ka-Bar knife sheath on a bed next to the bodies of Madison and Kaylee. The sheath was face down and partially under both Madison’s body and the comforter on the bed.

<bbm>

My apologies for any confusion this may have caused.

 

[MadMcGoo]

Continue the discussion here.

REMINDER: Please read and abide by the rules of this site. When posting information as fact, you MUST provide an approved source link verifying said information. Do not be rude or hateful toward other members.

 

[Nila Aella]

Case Summary Page

02/12/2025 Subpoena Issued
02/12/2025 Subpoena Issued Subpoena Duces Tecum
02/12/2025 Subpoena Issued Subpoena Duces Tecum
02/12/2025 Subpoena Issued

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/CR01-24-31665/Summary/Case-Summary-Kohberger-02122025.pdf

 

[schooling]

Case Summary Page

02/12/2025 Subpoena Issued
02/12/2025 Subpoena Issued Subpoena Duces Tecum
02/12/2025 Subpoena Issued Subpoena Duces Tecum
02/12/2025 Subpoena Issued

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/CR01-24-31665/Summary/Case-Summary-Kohberger-02122025.pdf

What's your take?

 

[Charlot123]

https://www.forensicsciencesimplified.org/dna/DNA.pdf

I think this is a good source of education about DNA in forensic science.

Personally, I think that while there may be ethical and other limitations in using paid companies offering ancestry tests and trees - for example, as a customer, I might view my DNA as “proprietary” information within the company I choose to use, and so may the other “match.” It is a complicated story and a very interesting future area of law! For example, if in course of hearing it is found that a “third party’s DNA” was used to build a tree that led to BK, isn’t this person entitled to compensation for using their DNA outside of initial plans? (But this is merely an interesting area, nothing linked to specifically this case.)

But in this case, I wonder how they couldn’t extract full profile from blood as opposed to “touch DNA”. Logically thinking, what has more leukocytes?

But this is more about technology.

 

[iamshadow21]

https://www.forensicsciencesimplified.org/dna/DNA.pdf

I think this is a good source of education about DNA in forensic science.

Personally, I think that while there may be ethical and other limitations in using paid companies offering ancestry tests and trees - for example, as a customer, I might view my DNA as “proprietary” information within the company I choose to use, and so may the other “match.” It is a complicated story and a very interesting future area of law! For example, if in course of hearing it is found that a “third party’s DNA” was used to build a tree that led to BK, isn’t this person entitled to compensation for using their DNA outside of initial plans? (But this is merely an interesting area, nothing linked to specifically this case.)

But in this case, I wonder how they couldn’t extract full profile from blood as opposed to “touch DNA”. Logically thinking, what has more leukocytes?

But this is more about technology.

I'm confused by your use of the word leukocytes. Leukocytes are white blood cells.

MOO

 

[LinasK]

https://www.forensicsciencesimplified.org/dna/DNA.pdf

I think this is a good source of education about DNA in forensic science.

Personally, I think that while there may be ethical and other limitations in using paid companies offering ancestry tests and trees - for example, as a customer, I might view my DNA as “proprietary” information within the company I choose to use, and so may the other “match.” It is a complicated story and a very interesting future area of law! For example, if in course of hearing it is found that a “third party’s DNA” was used to build a tree that led to BK, isn’t this person entitled to compensation for using their DNA outside of initial plans? (But this is merely an interesting area, nothing linked to specifically this case.)

But in this case, I wonder how they couldn’t extract full profile from blood as opposed to “touch DNA”. Logically thinking, what has more leukocytes?

But this is more about technology.

Why should that person be compensated? Everytime you touch something, shed blood, shave, clip your nails,cut your hair, you give off DNA. It's not private. The movie "Gattica" touched on that theme. And much genealogical research is available through public records such as Census records.

 

[Nila Aella]

What's your take?

Franks hearing
Hearing on 22nd supplemental request/Expert extension hearing (JH already ordered the extension though so?).
Or some other hearing we don't know about.

With the exhibit log 2/7/25 and subpoenas 2/12/25, leaning toward a Franks hearing.
What's your take?
JMO

 

[schooling]

Franks hearing
Hearing on 22nd supplemental request/Expert extension hearing (JH already ordered the extension though so?).
Or some other hearing we don't know about.

With the exhibit log 2/7/25 and subpoenas 2/12/25, leaning toward a Franks hearing.
What's your take?
JMO

I'd say the same. Just wanted to make sure I wasn't thinking about it wrong.

Ultimately, this is good for both the defense and the prosecution. If Kohberger didn't do it (you know my stance on this ha) then maybe this helps him out and if he's found Guilty this closes a few appeal avenues.

 

[MassGuy]

I'd say the same. Just wanted to make sure I wasn't thinking about it wrong.

Ultimately, this is good for both the defense and the prosecution. If Kohberger didn't do it (you know my stance on this ha) then maybe this helps him out and if he's found Guilty this closes a few appeal avenues.

Shocking development if true. There is nothing we currently know that would call for something like this, so it's very weird. Unless the thinking is that this is a death penalty case, and the judge is being super cautious.

I'm not the least bit concerned about evidence being thrown out though. Assuming of course, that a Frank's hearing has been granted, and these filings aren't in regards to a future hearing.

 

[gliving]

Why should that person be compensated? Everytime you touch something, shed blood, shave, clip your nails,cut your hair, you give off DNA. It's not private. The movie "Gattica" touched on that theme. And much genealogical research is available through public records such as Census records.

Yes, as @10ofRods explained, even using a laundromat can transfer DNA.

 

[jepop]

Shocking development if true. There is nothing we currently know that would call for something like this, so it's very weird. Unless the thinking is that this is a death penalty case, and the judge is being super cautious.

I'm not the least bit concerned about evidence being thrown out though. Assuming of course, that a Frank's hearing has been granted, and these filings aren't in regards to a future hearing.

Moo, if the subpoenas are for Franks, and I think they have to be, then obviously there have been private communications between court and parties to set a date. As Hippler seems to file Notices of Hearings around at least five days in advance, the earliest time for this hearing would be Wednesday/Thursday next week, if a Notice of Hearing is filed on Thursday (tomorrow Idaho time) this week. Jmo

Moo a Franks has to be concerned with the Court hearing testimony under direct examination of police officers who submitted search warrants for the case. It's not going to be related to IGG MTS on 4th Amendment basis. As far as that goes jmo that motion will be ruled against.

It's important people don't mix up these separate things. Jmo

Moo, a Franks will centre around AT & T first warrant. Payne and Mowery are probably the subjects of the X 2 subpoenas. The ducas in septum (sp?) subpoenas am not sure. Could be for statements from FBI re IGG result, when it was completed. Perhaps others can make educated guesses.

Ultimately, if Franks is successful on AT & T first warrant, imo the result will be suppression of that particular warrant's return at trial but it will not in any way mean that that the arrest was invalid.

Without that information in the arrest warrant, the defense imo cannot mount an argument that the judge would never have issued an arrest warrant. Ie paternal DNA test linking BK to sheathe, late night car video and the rest remain. Defense cannot argue exclusion of IGG result in arrest affidavit is exculpatory. If IGG had been included in arrest warrant that simply supports the PC and twice on Sundays off hand assessment of Judge Hippler. It is inculpatory. INAL and these are just my opinions and conjectures.

Lastly, the outcome of a Franks Hearing, if this is what this is, could just as well be negative for the defense with Hippler finding there was no malicious intent to deceive the judge for ATT &T first warrant. Imo IGG omission argument is dead in the water. IGG result is inculpatory. Jmo

---

If this is about a Franks, then Hippler must have found from 23/24 Jan there was sufficient evidence for a preliminary showing. That is all. The Franks can only be in relation to search warrants, and imo it will be narrowly focused on AT& T first warrant. Conjecture.

 

[jepop]

Imo, LE has sufficient probable cause at this moment in time to reapply for a warrant from AT& T for BK's csl data for the 24 hours surrounding the murders. If, and only if, the judge finds the return on AT&T first warrant should be suppressed following potential Frank's hearing, is there anything preventing LE from re applying for this warrant at this stage of proceedings? Genuine question to those familiar with ICRs. Can prosecution introduce what would technically be 'new' evidence at this point? This question is based on speculation about an outcome of a potential Franks hearing negative to the prosecution. Jmo

 

[wendy44]

Very interesting! There have been numerous Subpoena Duces Tecum issued, but I think they've all been sealed except for one--and that one was issued by the defense for the 23 January hearing. Maybe we'll get a hint if these aren't sealed.
JMO

 

[jepop]

Very interesting! There have been numerous Subpoena Duces Tecum issued, but I think they've all been sealed except for one--and that one was issued by the defense for the 23 January hearing. Maybe we'll get a hint if these aren't sealed.
JMO

Actually that's a point. It's possible these are old subpoenas for Jan 23/24 hearings? Just now uploaded to COI summary page and yet to be uploaded to COI page. IIRC there was more than one witness giving evidence during the open portions of Jan 23/24 hearings. And who knows how many giving evidence at the closed hearings. The timing is unfortunate if this is just a case of these old subpoenas being uploaded to the COI summary page now.

I apologise for speculating re Franks where perhaps it is entirely ungrounded. It would be really good if the clerk would update the actual docs on COI page so we can see the dates the subpoenas were issued. Jmo

 

[MassGuy]

Actually that's a point. It's possible these are old subpoenas for Jan 23/24 hearings? Just now uploaded to COI summary page and yet to be uploaded to COI page. IIRC there was more than one witness giving evidence during the open portions of Jan 23/24 hearings. And who knows how many giving evidence at the closed hearings. The timing is unfortunate if this is just a case of these old subpoenas being uploaded to the COI summary page now.

I apologise for speculating re Franks where perhaps it is entirely ungrounded. It would be really good if the clerk would update the actual docs on COI page so we can see the dates the subpoenas were issued. Jmo

Well lots of people's minds went there (mine included), and it wasn't baseless.

I think these probably do have to do with those hearings, and this is a prelude to that transcript being released. It's about that time.

Good thinking @wendy44, I think you nailed it.