4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #100

[MassGuy]

Holy crap:

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/CR01-24-31665/Summary/Case-Summary-Kohberger-02252025.pdf

 

[gremlin444]

BK graduated from High School in 2013.
He was a sophomore in 2010-11, and dismissed from his LE track, and put into HVAC, maybe he attended this HVAC for junior year. He did his senior year on line.

His VS posts about visual snow line up with his troubles at HS school.

I believe he was trying to find a way to excuse staring behavior that had got him in trouble with a physical condition beyond his control.

Idaho murders suspect Bryan Kohberger wrote about 'delusions of grandeur' in online forum

Idaho murder suspect Bryan Kohberger allegedly posted in an online forum years ago that he had "crazy thoughts" and "delusions of grandeur."

abc7.com

Where does this pairing of staring and visual snow syndrome keep coming from?

I'm serious--I've seen this brought up time and time again. Yet, in both the top medical resources that come up when people search it and all of the informational documents my son's neuro-ophthalmologist has given us, staring is not mentioned as a symptom of VSS or a coping mechanism for it.

For many people with VSS, staring makes the snow worse, so they tend to avoid it.

Of all BK's potential health/mental health/neuropsych diagnosis, the one most likely contribute any if at all to inappropriate staring is what just came up in today's court filings by the defense--autism spectrum disorder.

 

[gremlin444]

Holy crap:
View attachment 566409View attachment 566410View attachment 566411

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/CR01-24-31665/Summary/Case-Summary-Kohberger-02252025.pdf

In light of a new potential diagnosis to add to BK, courtesy of the defense's recent filings, I'm just going to get out there and say it because both the media and some people here are going to make a lot of assumptions:

BK may or may not have visual snow syndrome and/or OCD (depending if the Tapatalk posts are his). He did have a heroin addiction. He might have a diagnosis of autism spectrum disorder.

Not a single one of those things, on their own or in combination automatically made him a murderer. They contributed to the formation of his personality and psyche, along with societal factors and life events. But none of those diagnosis can be blamed for what happened.

You know there will be comments swirling around like "oh, well, he killed them because with autism spectrum disorder he couldn't have empathy for others." Or the bs blaming of his parents saying they shouldn't have let him (a grown adult) move away across the country for school. No one has any evidence that at the time he moved out that he was exhibiting any overly concerning issues. But there will be assumptions that he wasn't receiving medical or mental health support for any of these issues during his childhood/teen/adulthood (according to the Tapatalk, he was).

Don't add to that bs. It's harmful. Counter it when you see it. There are an untold number of people with any combination of those diagnosis in your life who are successful, caring individuals who aren't a risk to themselves or others. And when you support uninformed blanket statements like those that will be said, you are doing those people harm.

ETA: that doesn't mean you can't wonder or discuss how each of things affected him. But avoid harmful broad stereotypes and blanket assertions.

 

[NoeticSoul]

Holy crap:
View attachment 566409View attachment 566410View attachment 566411

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/CR01-24-31665/Summary/Case-Summary-Kohberger-02252025.pdf

It's like throwing cooked spaghetti at the wall to see which noodle sticks lol

moo

 

[Megnut]

Even if he has all of those diagnoses, would it spare the DP? This isn't an underperforming adolescent. This is an adult who was in a PhD program.... who committed a heinous and depraved quadruple murder with a highly organized plan.

Who determines sentencing? Judge or jury?

 

[MassGuy]

Even if he has all of those diagnoses, would it spare the DP? This isn't an underperforming adolescent. This is an adult who was in a PhD program.... who committed a heinous and depraved quadruple murder with a highly organized plan.

Who determines sentencing? Judge or jury?

Nope. He knew what he was doing, and knew what he was doing was wrong. Pretty much every serial killer (for instance) who has ever been put to death, has had underlying mental illness. It's not an excuse.

 

[gremlin444]

I can't wait to read defense motion in limine #3 RE: use of word "murder." That should be a fun one along with #7 Re: witness identification by bushy eyebrows.

#11 exclude IGG and #12 make and model of vehicle....*sigh* They are going to keep attacking those in every form they can, after their claims get shot down repeatedly. Wonder just how far they can push Hippler on the IGG before they've gone too far.

 

[jepop]

It's like throwing cooked spaghetti at the wall to see which noodle sticks lol

moo

Can imagine Hippler grumpily surveying the latest in his inbox, 'get me my clerk now! Where's Trent Tripple!'.

Back in Moscow, JJJ continues mopping his brow with a handkerchief...

 

[NCWatcher]

Even if he has all of those diagnoses, would it spare the DP? This isn't an underperforming adolescent. This is an adult who was in a PhD program.... who committed a heinous and depraved quadruple murder with a highly organized plan.

Who determines sentencing? Judge or jury?

The jury has to recommend the DP unanimously in Idaho. The judge cannot impose it otherwise.

Idaho | Death Penalty Information Center

History of the Death Penalty The death penalty was established in Idaho in 1864, before statehood. Since 1864, Idaho has carried out 29 executions. In…

deathpenaltyinfo.org

Psychiatric diagnoses may be mitigating factors in a DP case.
MOO

 

[Megnut]

I can't wait to read defense motion in limine #3 RE: use of word "murder." That should be a fun one along with #7 Re: witness identification by bushy eyebrows.

#11 exclude IGG and #12 make and model of vehicle....*sigh* They are going to keep attacking those in every form they can, after their claims get shot down repeatedly. Wonder just how far they can push Hippler on the IGG before they've gone too far.

Judge, don't let the prosecution say 'murder' because it makes my client look bad.

Oh OK

 

[SteveP]

Judge, don't let the prosecution say 'murder' because it makes my client look bad.

Oh OK

Perhaps they would prefer the prosecution say 'brutally carved up', which is a much more accurate description anyway.

 

[fcavanaugh]

IMO, the majority of people with ASD and other types of neurological and developmental disorders, or have some type of mental health illness, more often than not, are victims of crime. I personally know some people with these diagnoses and have a couple close relatives with ASD who are some of the humblest. nicest, most caring loving people I know.

IMO, sure a killer can have anything from a valid MH diagnosis, ASD, VSS, OCD, personality disorder etc etc,
but imo due to the cunning, cold, calculated heinous diabolical nature of premeditated cold blooded murder such as this one and others, imo there is something else besides any of those things going on in the mind/brain wiring, so to speak, of cold blooded killers. I’ve heard and read a lot about sociopath, psychopath, antisocial PD used to describe killers and don’t know if any of those things fit BK (I’m not a Doctor or MH prof).

I do know one thing I believe is that regardless of whether someone has ASD, VSS, OCD or any other MH diagnoses, what BK (allegedly) did to those four innocent college students, knifed them to death in cold blood, tells me that whether he as any of the aforementioned diagnoses or not, something else is going on in his brain. It’s called EVIL.

Someone that is capable of killing four innocent young college students in their sleep is someone that is EVIL to the core regardless of whatever health condition/diagnoses they may have, and of course none of any of it excuses murder.

I expect whatever valid diagnosis(s) BK has will come up at sentencing as possible mitigating factor.

IMHOO

ETA-added sentence

 

[Rolypolyoly]

Perhaps they would prefer the prosecution say 'brutally carved up', which is a much more accurate description anyway.

I was going to suggest mass slaughter, but yours works

 

[Megnut]

I'm going to throw this out there. I think AT cares a whole lot more about BK's defense than he does.

And she will defend him to the end, not because she believes he did or didn't murder four people in cold blood but because she feels it's her duty.

Besides his Vegan diet, I wonder what BK actually cares about.

I wonder but I'm not going to stare into it.

JMO

 

[Rolypolyoly]

In light of a new potential diagnosis to add to BK, courtesy of the defense's recent filings, I'm just going to get out there and say it because both the media and some people here are going to make a lot of assumptions:

BK may or may not have visual snow syndrome and/or OCD (depending if the Tapatalk posts are his). He did have a heroin addiction. He might have a diagnosis of autism spectrum disorder.

Not a single one of those things, on their own or in combination automatically made him a murderer. They contributed to the formation of his personality and psyche, along with societal factors and life events. But none of those diagnosis can be blamed for what happened.

You know there will be comments swirling around like "oh, well, he killed them because with autism spectrum disorder he couldn't have empathy for others." Or the bs blaming of his parents saying they shouldn't have let him (a grown adult) move away across the country for school. No one has any evidence that at the time he moved out that he was exhibiting any overly concerning issues. But there will be assumptions that he wasn't receiving medical or mental health support for any of these issues during his childhood/teen/adulthood (according to the Tapatalk, he was).

Don't add to that bs. It's harmful. Counter it when you see it. There are an untold number of people with any combination of those diagnosis in your life who are successful, caring individuals who aren't a risk to themselves or others. And when you support uninformed blanket statements like those that will be said, you are doing those people harm.

ETA: that doesn't mean you can't wonder or discuss how each of things affected him. But avoid harmful broad stereotypes and blanket assertions.

As the parent of one diagnosed autistic child, and at least two more suspected autistic/adhd adults, all 3 of whom have very different characters and traits, and all 3 of them have empathy in spades, thankyou for saying this

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Defense attorney Anne Taylor, meanwhile, asked the court for permission to file a lengthy court document that will include motions on a variety of things including improperly disclosed expert testimony, references to “touch” and “contact” DNA, and “witness identification by bushy eyebrows.” The judge approved Taylor’s request to file the long document, but it has not yet been released to the public.

https://www.wjhl.com/news/national/ap-idaho-prosecutors-seek-to-limit-bryan-kohbergers-alibi-evidence-at-murder-trial/

 

[Balthazar]

Even if he has all of those diagnoses, would it spare the DP? This isn't an underperforming adolescent. This is an adult who was in a PhD program.... who committed a heinous and depraved quadruple murder with a highly organized plan.

Who determines sentencing? Judge or jury?

In the US, it is considered unconstitutional to impose the DP on a person with an intellectual disability as of 2002 (Atkins v Virginia) because it is a cruel, unreasonable and excessive punishment for someone who has diminished personal culpability. Not all people with autism have intellectual disability, however, most genes that are related to autism do cause intellectual disability (ID). 70% of people with Autism have ID and the remaining 30% have some degree of ID which may be less pronounced, but still exists. IMO, for this reason alone the DP should be automatically removed from this case, in fact the prosecutor should never have put the DP on the table to begin with. I'm going to assume BT did not know BK is allegedly on the spectrum. However, Idaho has fixed their legal definition of ID as being an IQ of 70 or less which is not a medically accurate way to define ID. JMO.

Intellectual Disability | Death Penalty Information Center

The Death Penalty Information Center (DPI) is a national non-profit organization whose mission is to serve the media, policymakers, and the general public…

deathpenaltyinfo.org

Why People with Intellectual Disability Are Exempt from the Death Penalty | Death Penalty Information Center

The Death Penalty Information Center (DPI) is a national non-profit organization whose mission is to serve the media, policymakers, and the general public…

deathpenaltyinfo.org

Intellectual Disability and Autism Spectrum Disorders: Causal Genes and Molecular Mechanisms - PMC

Intellectual disability (ID) and Autism Spectrum disorder (ASD) are the most common developmental disorders present in humans. Combined, they affect between 3-5% of the population. Additionally, they can be found together in the same individual ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Intellectual Disability and the Death Penalty | American Civil Liberties Union

On June 20, 2002, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in Atkins v. Virginia that executing people with intellectual disabilities violated the Eighth Amendment prohibition against cruel and unusual punishment, overruling its Penry v. Lynaugh decision in 1989. The difference, according to the Court, was...

www.aclu.org

Idaho law forbids executing people with ID:

Idaho law forbids executing intellectually disabled people; Attorneys question whether Pizzuto qualifies - Idaho Reports

By Ruth Brown, Idaho Reports A decision by the Idaho Commission of Pardons and Parole on Tuesday led to the stay of an Idaho man’s execution, and at least bought him some time. The Commission granted Gerald Pizzuto Jr. a commutation hearing, which they will take up in November. His June 2...

blog.idahoreports.idahoptv.org

All JMO.

 

[MassGuy]

I was searching to see if a particular article had been posted here in the past, and I came across a post from @North_Idaho_Nony that had a few interesting links. Two of them I was unaware of (being kicked out of a police program in high school, and stealing his sister's phone).


Idaho murder suspect Bryan Kohberger dropped from high school police course after complaint.

stealing his sister’s phone, harassing female employees & customers at a bar/tavern

N

Post in thread '4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #93'

May 7, 2024

We can only HOPE he takes the stand because if he does, all bets are off...because ANYTHING can be asked by the prosecution.

Just my opinion....

I remain curious about the nature of the complaint referenced in
Idaho murder suspect Bryan Kohberger dropped from high school police course after complaint.

It’s something I think of when revisiting the statements about BK’s character his PA Public Defender made shortly after BK’s arrest.

Things like that, stealing his sister’s phone, harassing female employees & customers at a bar/tavern, & all that stuff remain...

• North_Idaho_Nony

• 
• 

 

[sassyblue]

I'm going to throw this out there. I think AT cares a whole lot more about BK's defense than he does.

And she will defend him to the end, not because she believes he did or didn't murder four people in cold blood but because she feels it's her duty.

Besides his Vegan diet, I wonder what BK actually cares about.

I wonder but I'm not going to stare into it.

JMO

Defense is interested in winning no matter what it costs. Like it's a simple horrendous game....with future lives on the line...not to forget the ones already lost.

The quote about staring into the abyss too long from Nietzsche always pops into my mind with defense shenanigans. Do they see it as a game to be won no matter what or do they stare into the abyss and lose their minds.

"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."

I know defense attorneys are needed and part of the process but sometimes I wonder if they feel ice in their bones at the thought they could help set free a cold blooded murderer....that could go on and do it again.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Presecutors in Kohberger case plan to present 3D model of home

The model will depict the three levels of the home near the University of Idaho which was demoled a year after the murders.

www.ktvb.com

Idaho prosecutors seek to limit Bryan Kohberger's alibi evidence at murder trial

Idaho prosecutors say a man charged in the stabbing deaths of four University of Idaho students shouldn’t be allowed to offer an alibi defense unless he takes the stand himself

www.thederrick.com

In the Kohberger case, he noted, a white Hyundai Elantra had been seen driving near the victims’ home, and that kind of evidence could lead detectives to examine the lives of many Elantra drivers who had done nothing wrong.

But Ms. Murphy, the law professor, noted that many people’s DNA could be shed at what might later become the scene of a crime, and that the widening tools had the potential to bring innocent people under extensive scrutiny or false charges, without clear rules.

“If this is a method that we want to use as a society, we should be able to come up with rules we can agree on, then expect people to follow them,” she said

To Identify Suspect in Idaho Killings, F.B.I. Used Restricted Consumer DNA Data

New records show that the F.B.I. identified Bryan Kohberger as a potential murder suspect after tapping consumer databases that were supposed to be off limits.

www.nytimes.com