4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #100

[schooling]

The footstep thing is starting to make me wonder ifmy initial theory has any weight.

• That Xana and Ethan caught Kohberger coming into the house.
• Had a brief confrontation and were both injured. Chased into Xana's room where he left them both for dead.
• Kohberger rushes upstairs, angry, and hastefully kills both MM and KG.
• Is partially partially interrupted by a crying Xana downstairs.
• Says "I'm here to help" and goes back into her room.
• Then walks out of the house.

MOO

And of course my opinion stems from AT pointing out that the footprint does not match DM's recollection. Which I think the simplest explanation is that he passed extremely close to her room on either his ay down or up the stairs. JMO

If I had to rank the footprint right outside of her room it would be (in order of plausibility)

1. he walked close enough to her room on the way down from MM's to pursue Ethan and Xana.
2. he briefly considered going back upstairs to find his sheath
3. he killed ethan and xana (who wasn't dead yet) before going upstairs

I'll have to take a look at the layout of the house again.

MOO

 

[MassGuy]

Latest Court Docs:

• 02/20/2025 Order Authorizing Release of Court Record Audio Recordings
• 02/20/2025 Order Granting Motion for Pro Hac Vice
• 02/20/2025 Order Redacting Portions of Closed Hearing Transcript
• 02/20/2025 Order Sealing States Proposed Redactions
• 02/20/2025 Proposed Redactions to Closed Hearing Transcript

 

[Rolypolyoly]

Honestly, what's left?

Chain of custody on the sheath DNA? Sloppy police work and a frame job? None of that works because they didn't know whose DNA it was.

Two Elantras? Shell game? Some are BK's Elantra? The one nosed away from Moscow. And the others aren't?

There's just nothing for her to work with. Just cross examination. She'll have to go hard at witnesses, try to rustle up doubt.

I wonder if they'll put up a defense or just try to push the State's case on cross.

We might as well start talking about aggravating amd mitigating factors, for the sentencing portion of BK's future. Aggravating -- burglary (breaking and entering), multiple victims, particularly depraved and henious....

Mitigating? Guy goes from seatbelt violate to mass murder. Visual snow.

I wonder if BK is receiving any mental health care. He's competent. He's sane. I'm thinking probably not suffering from significant mental illness but likely sporting an array of personality disorders. Maybe all of them.

Makes it all the more chilling really, that someone could do -- stone cold sober -- what he did.

Probably went home and made himself a regimented Vegan breakfast before heading back out, expecting to a house lit up with LE and media.

I wonder if, for a moment, finding everything quiet at 1122 King, if indeed he drove back that way, he wondered about HIS perception-- whether it happened or whether he'd imagined it. His whole life might have felt like that for him.

I can't a scenario, however, where he comes out of this trial in any way a sympathetic character. If anything, he's devoid. Will that rise to the level of mitigation?

Autopsy photos will eclipse that.

Mercy won't be his.

JMO

Evil twin separated at birth?

 

[jepop]

Idaho police offer new details about Kaylee Goncalves’ dog at the crime scene

Investigators previously revealed that the dog was found inside the home when officers arrived on the scene of the murders on 13 November

www.the-independent.com

When DM opened her door a third time, she saw a male figure clad in black clothin mask over his mouth and nose.

DM told police that she stood in a "frozen shock phase" as the figure walked past her and out the sliding door that allowed access to the second- and third-floor bedrooms. She described the man as having bushy eyebrows.

DM also told investigators that she heard Goncalves' dog barking throughout the night.

Former FBI agent Jennifer Coffindaffer, who is not connected to the case, told Newsweek
that DM's information was important to the investigation.


"She gives us insight as to the girls, meaning Maddy and Kaylee, being killed first and then Xana and Ethan later," Coffindaffer said. "It makes it clear from her timelines and the reflections of what she shared and of course what she saw."

Coffindaffer said DM's eyewitness account to the suspect also alerted investigators that there was one male perpetrator.

"[DM] dialed down all those questions: one perpetrator, a male perpetrator, and gave a general description matching Bryan Kohberger," Coffindaffer said.

Thanks @CoolCats. I read the link but can't find the bit in there that confirms DM told investigators the dog was barking throughout the night. The linked article is dated 6th December 2022 and is referring to the state of investigation before the PCA and before public knowledge of DM's statements?

 

[LinasK]

Evil twin separated at birth?

But even evil twins have slightly different DNA. See the case of the DeWilde brothers. One murdered the other's wife IIRC.

 

[vls12345]

I found one of the old articles about the sound of a dog barking.

At about 4.17am, a security camera next door picked up the sounds of voices or a whimper, a loud thud, and the sound of a dog barking 'numerous times'.

Graphic: How cops say Idaho murders unfolded

Newly unsealed court documents have revealed the police theory of how suspected killer Bryan Kohberger fatally stabbed four University of Idaho students after creeping into their home at night.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[fcavanaugh]

Note, AT didn't even offer star-gazing as his alibi, just barfed it up as explanation for nocturnal commissions -- she might even produce a Polaroid of a star BK once saw -- but I don't think anybody believes he was star-gazing that night or on the nights of his Tour de Moscow loops. Whatcha doin' in Moscow, BK? The sky over Pullman has the same number of stars.

His alibi was weaker than even that. He liked early morning drives because in the past he's been known to stargaze.

(One wonders whether BK has worm out that alibi in the past, if ever he was caught hot prowling after dark? Who me? I'm not prowling. I'm stargazing. Why all the black? Why the mask? Well, that's how we stargaze in PA. I didn't know the rules were different here.)

I do want to point out, to AT, FWIW, 2, 3, 4 am isn't really 'early morning' to me. You know, as he's known for his 'early morning runs'. If say 2, 3, 4 am are the bewitching hours. If you're not up because of an alternate work schedule, fair chance you're going to get a side eye.

Why does BK always seem to be awake when other people are sleeping?

I daresay BK so far has the worst alibi I've ever heard. I was driving in my car, with my phone off.

JMO

Great post as usual Megnut.
For me, BK’s stargazing alibi is certainly right up there, neck and neck so to speak, with a certain Colorado imo wife killer’s “shooting chipmunks” alibi as worse alibi aka fake alibi, I’ve ever heard.

Too bad neither stars nor chipmunks can confirm/vouch for alibi or be called to the stand to testify as witnesses to said alibi. Funny that. (Insert heavy dose of sarcasm).

IMHOO

 

[Ghostwheel]

The footstep thing is starting to make me wonder ifmy initial theory has any weight.

• That Xana and Ethan caught Kohberger coming into the house.
• Had a brief confrontation and were both injured. Chased into Xana's room where he left them both for dead.
• Kohberger rushes upstairs, angry, and hastefully kills both MM and KG.
• Is partially partially interrupted by a crying Xana downstairs.
• Says "I'm here to help" and goes back into her room.
• Then walks out of the house.

MOO

And of course my opinion stems from AT pointing out that the footprint does not match DM's recollection. Which I think the simplest explanation is that he passed extremely close to her room on either his ay down or up the stairs. JMO

If I had to rank the footprint right outside of her room it would be (in order of plausibility)

1. he walked close enough to her room on the way down from MM's to pursue Ethan and Xana.
2. he briefly considered going back upstairs to find his sheath
3. he killed ethan and xana (who wasn't dead yet) before going upstairs

I'll have to take a look at the layout of the house again.

MOO

I'd appreciate any insight you can give me. I seem to be missing the position of the footprint. How is the footprint described? Parallel to the threshold? Point towards the stairs, pointing towards another direction? I can easily see a print being left on the way down the stairs, parallel to DM's door. There was a little step up that goes to the living room from that space near her door, so you might have to put more pressure on one foot to go up the little step, or put more pressure on a foot coming back the other way going down the step.

 

[INfisherman]

Evil twin separated at birth?

…or worse yet, still alive, conjoined & secretly attached somewhere & yet to be seen in public & the actual shot caller.

ETA MiniBry? MiniBerger?

 

[Megnut]

Maybe BK turned back and listened at her door. Before leaving altogether.

JMO

 

[mrjitty]

If AT takes the IGG stuff to supreme court, would this delay the trial?

In my opinion no.

We need to differentiate between appealing rulings pre-trial (interlocutory appeals) and the traditional post trial appeal. Appeals pre or during the trial are much more limited.

It is my opinion that an appeal about the IGG stuff would have to happen post trial, and if he were somehow successful, then he would get a new trial.

If you could appeal novel points right through the state courts and then into the Federal system trials would take way too many years to be held in the first place. We have seen some exceptions to this, like the question of whether the defendant has some kind of immunity to be charged at all - but that is not this.

MOO

 

[mrjitty]

I see AT raising some of the things others have brough up on this thread:
- No known connection to the house or the people living in the house (that we are aware of)
- No evidence in his car or apartment that links him to the crime
- No cell phone data that shows him near the house during the commission of the crime (curious if Cy R will still testify for the Defense)
- Confuse Jury about DNA evidence (all the back-n-forth we've been going through on this thread)
- Unfortunately, DM"s credibility
- Then, point to other DNA that they did not pursue - could have been DD driver or boyfriend (as others have suggested)

All of these are IMOO and are based on information we are aware of (not speculating on what additional evidence that state will bring forward). With that in mind, do we think the state has video that shows the missing front plate? (Was that mentioned in the vehicle identification by FBI expert? - I can't recall if that was just in our conversations).

Sure. I can see those things being raised. I think they will be very limited on the question of "DNA's credibility"

 

[Justice101]

Great post as usual Megnut.
For me, BK’s stargazing alibi is certainly right up there, neck and neck so to speak, with a certain Colorado imo wife killer’s “shooting chipmunks” alibi as worse alibi aka fake alibi, I’ve ever heard.

Too bad neither stars nor chipmunks can confirm/vouch for alibi or be called to the stand to testify as witnesses to said alibi. Funny that. (Insert heavy dose of sarcasm).

IMHOO

Honestly, all the prosecution really has to do is read the definition of a valid alibi to the jury for them to see the utter laughability of his.

I wonder if the defense will even make the effort to get someone BK knew to testify that BK would often star gaze ort drive around at at night. For sure, BK won't be giving his alibi by himself.. BK testifying himself would just open up a can of worms with questions from the prosecution.

 

[jepop]

I found one of the old articles about the sound of a dog barking.

Graphic: How cops say Idaho murders unfolded

Newly unsealed court documents have revealed the police theory of how suspected killer Bryan Kohberger fatally stabbed four University of Idaho students after creeping into their home at night.

www.dailymail.co.uk

https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/local/crime/article269736921.html

I dug up this article, dated 9th Dec 2022, which has a reference to neighbour "Anna C". She lived in the 1200 block, very close to 1122 and owned a dog. On the early morn of murders she stated she was awake between 2 and 5 am. Something about having head phones on and off (playing a computer game).

 

[arielilane]

• 1122 King Road is where the Idaho student killings occurred on November 13, 2022. Four University of Idaho students were murdered, and BK is the suspect charged.
• DM is one of the surviving roommates who lived there. She likely made the 911 call after finding the bodies, so she saw something important.
• DM saw a man in black clothing and a mask around the time of the killings.
• Check the 911 call transcript for her exact words. She mentioned waking up to someone knocking and seeing a man in black with a mask.
• Theres a statement from the preliminary hearing, but the trial's ongoing, so the public is not privy to all info yet.
• In the 911 call, DM reported seeing a masked man in black clothing walking past her.

‘Frozen shock’: Idaho roommate said masked man walked right past her on night of killings, court docs reveal

One of the surviving roommates in the Idaho student slayings said she stood in her bedroom doorway in "frozen shock" as a masked, black-clad figure walked past her, new court documents reveal.

www.today.com

 

[Rolypolyoly]

But even evil twins have slightly different DNA. See the case of the DeWilde brothers. One murdered the other's wife IIRC.

I believe identical twins have identical DNA, but different fingerprints and obviously different personalities.

@Arkay posted a while back about her identical twin and her granddaughter both doing a DNA test and matching with each other as grandparents and grandchild, even tthough they were actually Great Aunt and Great niece, and there have been articles about sets of identical twins who marry a set of identical twins and their children are biologically siblings, even though they are cousins. Fascinating stuff.

 

[jepop]

• 1122 King Road is where the Idaho student killings occurred on November 13, 2022. Four University of Idaho students were murdered, and BK is the suspect charged.
• DM is one of the surviving roommates who lived there. She likely made the 911 call after finding the bodies, so she saw something important.
• DM saw a man in black clothing and a mask around the time of the killings.
• Check the 911 call transcript for her exact words. She mentioned waking up to someone knocking and seeing a man in black with a mask.
• Theres a statement from the preliminary hearing, but the trial's ongoing, so the public is not privy to all info yet.
• In the 911 call, DM reported seeing a masked man in black clothing walking past her.

‘Frozen shock’: Idaho roommate said masked man walked right past her on night of killings, court docs reveal

One of the surviving roommates in the Idaho student slayings said she stood in her bedroom doorway in "frozen shock" as a masked, black-clad figure walked past her, new court documents reveal.

www.today.com

Respectfully Bolded for focus. Not sure I understand the summary/dot points for the source? Article is dated 6th Jan 2023 so all info is coming from the newly released ( at that time) PCA, not a transcript of the 911 call. There wasn't and still isn't public access to the 911 call. No transcript .

There wasn't at that time and never has been a preliminary hearing owing to GJ indictment in May of that year.

Also moo MPD updated in early 2023 that a visitor known to the roomates made the 911 call using one of their phones.

 

[Arkay]

I believe identical twins have identical DNA, but different fingerprints and obviously different personalities.

@Arkay posted a while back about her identical twin and her granddaughter both doing a DNA test and matching with each other as grandparents and grandchild, even tthough they were actually Great Aunt and Great niece, and there have been articles about sets of identical twins who marry a set of identical twins and their children are biologically siblings, even though they are cousins. Fascinating stuff.

Thank you for remembering that, @Rolypolyoly.

It’s true. Therefore, say BK did have an evil identical twin. If only the DNA were found, the prosecution could not definitively point to DNA as proof BK is the murderer. Also DM’s description would not help.

That would still not negate the circumstantial evidence of BK’s car, his phone turned off, his affect and so on unless Evil Twin had the same car, drove to the same places at the same time, and had a similar history of cold-hearted lack of emotion, as BK explained of his own character.

Now if fingerprints were found, that would indeed differentiate which twin. Fingerprints are formed by how the fetus touches the mother’s womb in utero, so identical twins form their own unique fingerprints.

My twin and I look interchangeable but have opposite personalities. (Also our daughters are genetically half-sisters rather than cousins).

JMO and experience

 

[newbysleuther]

Reading through these judgements is like a breath of fresh air. The judge sure did clean house.

I think they are realllly regretting that Change of Venue Motion, lol.

 

[arielilane]

Respectfully Bolded for focus. Not sure I understand the summary/dot points for the source? Article is dated 6th Jan 2023 so all info is coming from the newly released ( at that time) PCA, not a transcript of the 911 call. There wasn't and still isn't public access to the 911 call. No transcript .

There wasn't at that time and never has been a preliminary hearing owing to GJ indictment in May of that year.

Also moo MPD updated in early 2023 that a visitor known to the roomates made the 911 call using one of their phones.

The call is from the affidavit, the bullets are not all from the linked article.