4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #100

[INfisherman]

Besides his Vegan diet, I wonder what BK actually cares about.

I wonder but I'm not going to state into it.

JMO

Thai food?

MOO

 

[MassGuy]

In the US, it is considered unconstitutional to impose the DP on a person with an intellectual disability as of 2002 (Atkins v Virginia) because it is a cruel, unreasonable and excessive punishment for someone who has diminished personal culpability. Not all people with autism have intellectual disability, however, most genes that are related to autism do cause intellectual disability (ID). 70% of people with Autism have ID and the remaining 30% have some degree of ID which may be less pronounced, but still exists. IMO, for this reason alone the DP should be automatically removed from this case, in fact the prosecutor should never have put the DP on the table to begin with. I'm going to assume BT did not know BK is allegedly on the spectrum. However, Idaho has fixed their legal definition of ID as being an IQ of 70 or less which is not a medically accurate way to define ID. JMO.

Intellectual Disability | Death Penalty Information Center

The Death Penalty Information Center (DPI) is a national non-profit organization whose mission is to serve the media, policymakers, and the general public…

deathpenaltyinfo.org

Why People with Intellectual Disability Are Exempt from the Death Penalty | Death Penalty Information Center

The Death Penalty Information Center (DPI) is a national non-profit organization whose mission is to serve the media, policymakers, and the general public…

deathpenaltyinfo.org

Intellectual Disability and Autism Spectrum Disorders: Causal Genes and Molecular Mechanisms - PMC

Intellectual disability (ID) and Autism Spectrum disorder (ASD) are the most common developmental disorders present in humans. Combined, they affect between 3-5% of the population. Additionally, they can be found together in the same individual ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Intellectual Disability and the Death Penalty | American Civil Liberties Union

On June 20, 2002, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in Atkins v. Virginia that executing people with intellectual disabilities violated the Eighth Amendment prohibition against cruel and unusual punishment, overruling its Penry v. Lynaugh decision in 1989. The difference, according to the Court, was...

www.aclu.org

Idaho law forbids executing people with ID:

Idaho law forbids executing intellectually disabled people; Attorneys question whether Pizzuto qualifies - Idaho Reports

By Ruth Brown, Idaho Reports A decision by the Idaho Commission of Pardons and Parole on Tuesday led to the stay of an Idaho man’s execution, and at least bought him some time. The Commission granted Gerald Pizzuto Jr. a commutation hearing, which they will take up in November. His June 2...

blog.idahoreports.idahoptv.org

All JMO.

Yeah, that's not going to fly here at all. He does not have diminished culpability due to any mental health condition we are aware of, and certainly doesn't appear to have an intellectual disability.

He knew exactly what he was doing, and knew that it was wrong. This isn't come mentally ill person breaking into a house and stabbing a bunch of people to death on whim. This was incredibly well planned and executed, and would take someone with at the very least, above average intelligence to pull it off.

I'd be very surprised if he didn't do incredibly well on an IQ test.

 

[I am not Sherlock H.]

Just have to say…… speaking of ‘bushy eyebrows’…… IMO someone’s client has been plucking and coifing those eyebrows to no end. And I sure hope the prosecution at trial will use images earlier such as from arrest and also prior. And since it seems the defense wishes to make an issue of this…… it will also allow the prosecution to address this point.

But it is only one small piece of incriminating evidence and information that seems to point to their client.

There is an old adage…… be careful what one wishes for. MOO

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Read the transcript here:

022125 Transcript Redacted Hearing Held Jan23 2025

https://www.newsnationnow.com/crime/idaho-college-killings/idaho-judge-unseals-bryan-kohberger-closed-hearing-transcripts/

 

[I am not Sherlock H.]

I would think is BK had this visual snow thing he shouldn't be allowed to drive.

That is an interesting thought @Gigiky …. and made me also wonder……whether the visual snow condition discussed and suggested would also make it difficult to uuhh…. stargaze at night perhaps? MOO

 

[LinasK]

If your cousin was Mark Driben, that WAS a cold case.

"A case becomes “Cold” when all probative investigative leads available to the primary investigators are exhausted and the case remains open and unsolved after a period of three years. Cold Cases are reviewed to determine if newer technologies or forensic testing may produce any new potential leads." Cold Cases - What is a Cold Case.

Even this indicates that Mark Dribin's case was considered a cold case: MARK DRIBIN

BTW, it is right and good that you and the rest of Mark's family and friends received justice. I just wish it could have been much sooner. 20 years is a long time to wait.

Yes it was a cold case( Mark disappeared in 1999 and I've know about it since then), and was brought to trial in the last year, making it current based on the IGG evidence.

 

[LinasK]

Rachel Morin's Suspected Rapist & Murderer is Arrested

Harford County Sheriff's Office & FBI Team with Othram to Identify the Suspect in Rachel Morin’s Sexual Assault and Murder

dnasolves.com

FIGG has been recently used in new cases.

They had the cigarette butts in 1999, but didn't use IGG until 2020 to identify Mark's killer.

 

[LinasK]

Of course I have no proof and it’s just my feelings about this, but I don’t believe he intentionally left the sheath behind.

IMO things became more complicated than he’d pictured. Maddie and Kaylee together in the bed, Xana and Ethan fighting him, frenzied stabbing, and he lost it. Physically lost the sheath and mentally “lost it” when his imagined scenario became more complex.

I think he was exhausted though satiated by killing them and just made that one grievous error (thankfully). Maybe he didn’t see the sheath was positioned as it was by Maddie and just hightailed it out of there.

If he was signaling something by leaving the sheath intentionally, I don’t see it.

OR I’m totally wrong. Who knows?

JMO

No, I think you're exactly right. I think he didn't purposely leave the sheath behind.

 

[crhedBngr]

NYTimes gift article:

To Identify Suspect in Idaho Killings, F.B.I. Used Restricted Consumer DNA Data

JMVHO.

 

[Ghostwheel]

I must say, the various interpretations of ASD, ID and Diminished Capacity are fascinating. Autism Spectrum disorder. Spectrum. Wide range of personality traits for anyone who has it, some not noticeable by the average person at all. Anyone who knows more than one person with ASD know ID does not go hand in hand with it, and that some people who are called Intellectually Disabled are not at all, they just can't convey their intelligence in the societal norm ways. Diminished Capacity is really the only mitigating factor, if someone just does not know that their actions would have resulted in death, or that their actions that resulted in death would be a bad thing as examples. IMO and experience.

Simply saying "I have ASD so I shouldn't get the death penalty, even though I knew perfectly well what I was doing would result in death and I meant for them to die even though no one was attacking me and it was not any kind of self defense at all" just isn't going to take the DP off the table. IMHO.

 

[crhedBngr]

Let's pretend for funsies that it's November 10th of that year. Everyone is alive and well.

Let's talk about those dozen or so trips into Moscow.

Let's wonder if any of them are in the 3 am realm.

Let's wonder if, mapped, they're ridiculously identical.

Let's ask if the routes look anything like the triple loop-de-loops he took the night of the murders.

Let's talk about those.

Actually, let's imagine AT talking about them.

I happen to think she'd use phrases like:

* yes, he was driving in Moscow but he wasn't driving over there. (Conveniently true statement. The whole outer loop isn't anywhere near 1122.)

* he wasn't stopping.

What then was he doing?

Seems quite targeted, no? Circling? Circling the airport, looking for the runway? Funny that the perigee of his lunar space drive looks to be planet 1122, the very same place by which he docked his Hyundai rocket and in which four unsuspecting victims were slaughtered to death.

If the dozen excursions into Moscow looked anything like the three tours de King, IF one of the victims, while alive, had reason to be aware of his BK's orbiting Elantra, would they rise to the legal standard of stalking? What if there's minimal or even no stopping? Could we say, "not stalking, just driving around"? Is it technically stalking if it's the whole house he's surveilling? Is it harassment -- is it criminal -- if he learned of the address from following an unsuspecting waitress home, and didn't need to ogle, content to steal glimpses.

He didn't stumble upon that location by accident. Looping with purpose.

I can't wait to see how AT tries to repackage that.

JMO

RBBM

Supposedly Kohberger was also obsessively driving around 1122 on the morning of 11/13/22.

Per the link below:

Kohberger's phone pinged in the area of the students' Moscow house around 9am on November 13 - just five hours after he allegedly broke into the off-campus home and stabbed four students to death. But by the end of that day, his phone went cold.

Is THIS Bryan Kohberger returning to the scene of the Idaho murders?

It's not a stretch to connect the white vehicle driving by 1122 Kings Road around 9:00 a.m. 11/23/22 with the white vehicle being driven obsessively around 1122 the night of the murders.

JMVHO.

 

[INfisherman]

Just have to say…… speaking of ‘bushy eyebrows’…… IMO someone’s client has been plucking and coifing those eyebrows to no end.

Maybe those woolly worms transformed into Isabella tiger moths after the long winter?

 

[Betty P]

Nope. He knew what he was doing, and knew what he was doing was wrong. Pretty much every serial killer (for instance) who has ever been put to death, has had underlying mental illness. It's not an excuse.

He also evaded police, got rid of evidence and took other steps to hide his involvement in the murders. IIRC, most states have these criteria for an insanity defense. I assume that's why his defense hasn't tried that strategy?

I'm just now checking back into this horrible case as it's in the pre-trial phase. Thanks to all of you who stuck around and kept this discussion up to date. It's been pretty easy to catch up on things here. These murders spook me like few others do. The first night after I came here and began reading to refresh my memory, I ended up having a nightmare about it. Very few cases I've followed have done that, but this one ....

ETA: Idaho no longer allows an insanity defense, though insanity can be considered by a judge at sentencing. Their insanity defense statute was repealed in 1982 by the state legislature.

Insanity in the State of Idaho

States remain free to adopt a framework for addressing the relationship between mental illness and criminal responsibility.

www.apa.org

 

[SteveP]

He also evaded police, got rid of evidence and took other steps to hide his involvement in the murders. IIRC, most states have these criteria for an insanity defense. I assume that's why his defense hasn't tried that strategy?

I'm just now checking back into this horrible case as it's in the pre-trial phase. Thanks to all of you who stuck around and kept this discussion up to date. It's been pretty easy to catch up on things here. These murders spook me like few others do. The first night after I came here and began reading to refresh my memory, I ended up having a nightmare about it. Very few cases I've followed have done that, but this one .'..

In 1982, the Idaho Legislature repealed Idaho's insanity defense statute and enacted a law that states that "mental condition shall not be a defense to any charge of criminal conduct," but the court may consider expert evidence on "any state of mind which is an element of the offense."

Insanity in the State of Idaho

States remain free to adopt a framework for addressing the relationship between mental illness and criminal responsibility.

www.apa.org

 

[newbysleuther]

Dbm

 

[Gigiky]

So what are the thoughts on the new addition to BK defense team. Bicka Barlow?

 

[Betty P]

Interesting.. on the new "case summary", but not on the docket yet - Motion to Strike Death Penalty due to Autism Spectrum Disorder??

I guess that covers the revised law that allows the defense to ask the judge to consider insanity during sentencing. It's a DP case, so defense attorneys are kind of expected to make these motions to protect the rights of the defendant.

 

[Gigiky]

Interesting.. on the new "case summary", but not on the docket yet - Motion to Strike Death Penalty due to Autism Spectrum Disorder??

Good Lord! That's just about as pitiful as it gets! And once again that's JMO.

 

[LinasK]

Good Lord! That's just about as pitiful as it gets! And once again that's JMO.

Not as pathetic as a case I saw on Dateline where the guy claimed that he was "too fat" to have murdered someone.

 

[MassGuy]

So what are the thoughts on the new addition to BK defense team. Bicka Barlow?

Pile em on. Dig up Johnnie Cochran and F. Lee Bailey and add them to the team too.

They need all the help they can get with these facts.