4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #101

[ChatteringBirds]

This tragedy seems to be breaking news:

Police said they responded to King Road for a report of an unconscious person. When officers arrived, they “discovered four individuals who were deceased...”

4 Idaho college students killed in 'targeted attack,' no suspects in custody

Four University of Idaho students were found dead on Sunday, officials said.

abcnews.go.com

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Media Thread/No Discussion
Media Thread/No Discussion #2

Probable Cause Affidavit

Press photo album (compilation courtesy of WS member cujenn81)

Moscow ID Police Department Facebook page

City of Moscow re King Road Homicide

Media Guide to the Idaho Courts

Detectives are looking to develop context for the events and people involved in the four murders at 1122 King Rd in Moscow, Idaho. Anyone who observed notable behavior, has video surveillance, or can provide relevant information about these murders:

• Telephone: 208-883-7180
• Email: tipline@ci.moscow.id.us
• Digital Media: fbi.gov/moscowidaho

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

There is no known, legitimate source to any claim that there was no victim DNA on the knife sheath or that
a bloody glove was found by CSI.

Relevant posts have been removed.

 

[Tricia]

Even IF the sheath belonged to one of the victims-which I don't believe in this case, it's not exculpatory for him because murder victims get murdered with their own guns and knives all the time. Also, there's the fact that he purchased an identical knife on Amazon.

There is a report from Dateline that he bought a Ka-Bar knife from Amazon.
Here is a report discussing the Dateline find.

Bryan Kohberger bought Ka-Bar knife from Amazon months before murders

Accused killer to appear in court for arraignment on four counts of first-degree murder and burglary

www.the-independent.com

If this has already been reported on the thread my apologies.
Tricia

 

[Sillybilly]

All MOO

I don't know how anyone could believe that a sheath laying under a victim for over 8 hours somehow ONLY has a few microscopic skin cells from one person. It's simply not believable in my opinion.

I just hope there is body cam video of LE finding/discovering the 'placed' sheath. I say placed b/c that's what the PCA says.

All MOO

Just jumping off your post CKS and for clarity going forward ...

Numerous members are referring to "underneath" but according to Moscow officer Brett Payne in the PCA:

"I also later noticed what appeared to be a tan leather knife sheath laying on the bed next to Mogen's right side"

 

[Sillybilly]

Just jumping off your post CKS and for clarity going forward ...

Numerous members are referring to "underneath" but according to Moscow officer Brett Payne in the PCA:

"I also later noticed what appeared to be a tan leather knife sheath laying on the bed next to Mogen's right side"

In addition to the above quote from the PCA, a member has brought the following to my attention:

In the June 16 2023 Motion for Protective Order, pg 2, Factual Background, it states:

Law enforcement found a Ka-Bar knife sheath on a bed next to the bodies of Madison and Kaylee. The sheath was face down and partially under both Madison’s body and the comforter on the bed.

<bbm>

My apologies for any confusion this may have caused.

 

[Knitty]

Please continue here.

 

[Megnut]

Hmm. While I was writing it appears your post was edited. I believe your post used to make a distinction between permissable inferences based on the evidence and impermissible speculation. (Speculation based on anything, including the evidence.) That's a hard distinction to make if evidence is involved either way.

Anyway, technically there's no official evidence for anyone to consider or make inferences about since the trial hasn't started yet. And an inference is a conclusion that may be drawn, not one that must be drawn based on evidence.

Some posts have unequivocally stated BK ordered the knife & the sheath from Amazon. That may be true but we don't know that. It's unclear how that could be an inference -- based on what evidence? The existence of known subpoenas for Amazon records? A TV show? Others have stated the sheath is part of the actual murder weapon. I'm not sure most people in the general public would agree with that belief. A knife that's never been put in a sheath can still be used to kill just like a gun without a holster can be used to shoot someone. And it's pretty unlikely a sheath or a holster would be thought of as a deadly weapon or even though of objects to make ordinary objects into deadly weapons.

At any rate, for me, there's a big difference at this point between saying "BK's DNA is on the murder weapon sheath" vs saying "the sheath probably was left behind by a knife-wielding murderer..."

MOO

Rbbm

Yes, a lone sheath at a crime scene coukd be unrelated. But I'd have to get reeeeeeally creative to try to explain this one, in a context that is unrelated and uninformative.

Because

It's out of place.
It's under/near/in the bed with two victims.
Two victims who were in fact slaughtered by a knife.
Presumably by a knife that corresponds to that sheath.
But even if by some weird surprise, the murder weapon was a different knife, one which didn't fit in that sheath, the sheath still doesn't belong there.
Then there's recoverable DNA on the sheath.
And not just on the sheath but on the touch point. Single source male DNA which is then run through CODIS. No match but proof is a full profile. And indicates a male perpetrator without a convicted criminal record. Then it's compared to the civilian populated of collected DNA and voila -- relatives are isolated. Trash pull yields a one degree match -- either father or son -- and ultimately that statistical match is made -- identifying BK as the 5 cotillion to 1 owner of the sheath DNA.

And HE turns out to be a scholar of criminal psychology who drives a white Elantra who admits he was driving around during the night, who is tall and slim, who has a prominent brow ridge, who turned his phone off precisely during the time of the crimes and whose defense attorney reeeeeally doesn't want his Amazon history revealed.

They usually say 'follow the money'. I say 'follow the defense strategy'. We can learn A LOT by what they do, say, try to suppress.

We could all, by mutual agreement, wait for the trial. Let this thread go dark until. Or we can follow along, watching what both sides are doing.

Me? I see AT defending a guilty defendant not because she's a terrible person but because the system calls for it. He's entitled to a defense, he is legally considered innocent until the jury reaches a guilty verdict, if they do.

BK has given AT an impossible task.

JMO

 

[Nila Aella]

Case summary page

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/CR01-24-31665/Summary/Case-Summary-Kohberger-02282025.pdf

 

[NCWatcher]

Not sure how to respond to @Megnut's
post that appeared in tge last thread that's closed.

Post in thread '4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #100'

Post in thread '4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #100'

Mar 1, 2025

Hmm. While I was writing it appears your post was edited. I believe your post used to make a distinction between permissable inferences based on the evidence and impermissible speculation. (Speculation based on anything, including the evidence.) That's a hard distinction to make if evidence is involved either way.

Anyway, technically there's no official evidence for anyone to consider or make inferences about since the trial hasn't started yet. And an inference is a conclusion that may be drawn, not one that must be drawn based on evidence.

Some posts have unequivocally stated BK...

• Megnut

• 
• 

The post said:

"Of course, the trial is the proper place for admissible evidence, but we have the time here to make predictions about how the trial will go.

The break down on this one is easy for me.

If BK shopped on Amazon for vegan cookbooks or bathroom rugs, AT would be THRILLED for the State -- and the public -- to know it.

Her motion to suppress is VERY telling, and when added to the growing list of other observations about the case, that Amazon discovery is bad for BK."

My response:

Of course we can speculate/make predictions. My original post simply pointed out that a post saying as fact that BK's DNA was on the sheath that held the murder weapon contained multiple areas of speculation.

In terms of your point about Amazon, I suspect there are many things he could have shopped for besides vegan cookbooks and a knife. Some of those things might lead jurors to draw unwarranted negative conclusions. At any rate, what AT does or doesn't argue in pre-trial motions is not evidence for jurors to consider at the trial. That doesn't mean some won't but it would be improper.
MOO

 

[Arkay]

from @NCWatcher, previous thread.

Others have stated the sheath is part of the actual murder weapon. I'm not sure most people in the general public would agree with that belief. A knife that's never been put in a sheath can still be used to kill just like a gun without a holster can be used to shoot someone. And it's pretty unlikely a sheath or a holster would be thought of as a deadly weapon or even though of objects to make ordinary objects into deadly weapons.

Wrote a reply that was lost on the way to the new thread, so I’ll just be brief:

On the surface this could possibly, maybe, perhaps be true, but connecting the dots is very revelatory. Let’s take the location of the sheath.

Say, for example, a sheath was found on a bathroom sink on another floor. Perhaps, maybe, possibly, the murderer removed the sheath to use the toilet, let’s say, and left it on the sink or elsewhere in the bathroom.

Then it might perhaps be considered a harmless piece of leather.

Yet, in the ACTUAL world, it was found beneath the body of a bloody young woman killed by a knife. Now a reasonable assumption is that it is part of a murder kit. I’d really have to ask myself, if I were a juror, what makes sense here?

Dot to dot to dot to dot, along with other known evidence (car, phone, etc.), I would have beyond a reasonable doubt that since said sheath was found beneath a body bleeding out from knife wounds, the victim(s) would have been killed by the knife once housed in that very sheath.

My next question would be who did this horrific crime, and if the answer was that biological material was found on the sheath beneath the body, and that biological material emerges as the DNA of only one person on Earth, I would have a difficult time seeing the sheath as still an innocuous piece of leather.

I’m not even addressing an Amazon knife purchase until that is revealed in court as more evidence, but when that happens it will be the coup de grâce.

IMO.

 

[Megnut]

Or we could look at it this way:

Anything found beneath a slayed victim, which doesn't belong to the victim and surrounding area is significant for the very fact it is arrifact that the perpetrator brought to the scene. A glove. A baseball cap. A baseball bat. A condom. A business card. A cellphone.

Or a knife sheath.

Rather significant if the victim was slaughtered by a knife, and even more so, if by the exact knife (as/if determined by autopsy) that corresponds with said sheath.

It wasn't found in a tote under a bed, layered in dust.

It wasn't found in a junk drawer with similarly aged and like things.

I'm not sure what is gained by pretending it barely evidence.

It's a smoking holster.

With DNA from the the shooter.

JMO

 

[NCWatcher]

Or we could look at it this way:

Anything found beneath a slayed victim, which doesn't belong to the victim and surrounding area is significant for the very fact it is arrifact that the perpetrator brought to the scene. A glove. A baseball cap. A baseball bat. A condom. A business card. A cellphone.

Or a knife sheath.

Rather significant if the victim was slaughtered by a knife, and even more so, if by the exact knife (as/if determined by autopsy) that corresponds with said sheath.

It wasn't found in a tote under a bed, layered in dust.

It wasn't found in a junk drawer with similarly aged and like things.

I'm not sure what is gained by pretending it barely evidence.

It's a smoking holster.

With DNA from the the shooter.

JMO

Yes, as I said in my earlier post, one might conclude the sheath was brought to the scene. And the most logical person to do that would have been the killer. That's not an airtight conclusion though. And it certainly doesn't speak to the sheath being a part of the murder weapon.
MOO

 

[jepop]

Or we could look at it this way:

Anything found beneath a slayed victim, which doesn't belong to the victim and surrounding area is significant for the very fact it is arrifact that the perpetrator brought to the scene. A glove. A baseball cap. A baseball bat. A condom. A business card. A cellphone.

Or a knife sheath.

Rather significant if the victim was slaughtered by a knife, and even more so, if by the exact knife (as/if determined by autopsy) that corresponds with said sheath.

It wasn't found in a tote under a bed, layered in dust.

It wasn't found in a junk drawer with similarly aged and like things.

I'm not sure what is gained by pretending it barely evidence.

It's a smoking holster.

With DNA from the the shooter.

JMO

Exactly. Jmo, ofcourse the sheathe is going to be evidence. One of the first things the P will do, IMO, is establish that sheathe had no business being in the house, let alone partially under one of the stabbed victims with victim/s blood on it; Secondly, sheathe belongs to none of the victims or their friends and acquaintances. Moo

I mean we're all aware of the warrants, before BK was even a POI, trying to find out the origins of knife. We're all aware of the pre trial focus on the sheathe and dna. In my world, the sheathe is associated with the knife that was used to murder. Why would there be, inexplicably, a random knife sheathe under a brutally stabbed victim that so happens not to be associated with the murder weapon. Ofcourse Investigators have made that connection and it will be reasonably explained to a jury. Moo

I really doubt defense will try to suggest, somehow, that the sheathe is randomly unconnected. There won't, imo, be a shred of evidence for that. Yes this is speculation but I think it's pretty safe. Jmo

 

[Arkay]

Yes, as I said in my earlier post, one might conclude the sheath was brought to the scene. And the most logical person to do that would have been the killer. That's not an airtight conclusion though. And it certainly doesn't speak to the sheath being a part of the murder weapon.
MOO

Okay, then in your opinion, what IS the sheath doing there? Beneath a dead and copiously bleeding victim of a knife attack?

Also, the evidence needn’t be airtight, though I believe it is. Legally it just needs to be “beyond a reasonable doubt,” which I also believe is the case here.

JMO

 

[SteveP]

One can look at any of several items, events, and behaviors almost certain to be presented in this case, physical, digital, and biological, and singly consider almost any could be a 'coincidence'. When presented in their totality, however, all of the any 'coincidences' that some want to believe may exist, paint a picture that would lead any reasonable person to conclude that not only could BK be the murderer, but that it is not reasonable to believe that anyone other than BK could be the murderer of Kaylee Goncalves, Madison Mogen, Xana Kernodle, and Ethan Chapin. JMO

 

[Cool Cats]

Okay, then in your opinion, what IS the sheath doing there? Beneath a dead and copiously bleeding victim of a knife attack?

Also, the evidence needn’t be airtight, though I believe it is. Legally it just needs to be “beyond a reasonable doubt,” which I also believe is the case here.

JMO

Thank goodness we do not require that murder defendant's can only be convicted by 20 security camers.

That only 24/7 video footage can convict killers.

Nope. Intelligent normal rational thinking provides that in a trial the jury should consider multiple avenues of evidence.

2 Cents

 

[Cool Cats]

Accused Idaho killer Bryan Kohberger’s body language compared to Lee Harvey Oswald

Accused University of Idaho killer Bryan Kohberger acted like someone who was “caught doing something wrong” upon learning the possible fate that awaits him, experts tell The Post.

nypost.com

Accused University of Idaho killer Bryan Kohberger acted like someone who was “caught doing something wrong” upon learning the possible fate that awaits him — but otherwise showed a level of calm most comparable to infamous assassin Lee Harvey Oswald, body language experts told The Post.

 

[Gigiky]

One can look at any of several items, events, and behaviors almost certain to be presented in this case, physical, digital, and biological, and singly consider almost any could be a 'coincidence'. When presented in their totality, however, all of the any 'coincidences' that some want to believe may exist, paint a picture that would lead any reasonable person to conclude that not only could BK be the murderer, but that it is not reasonable to believe that anyone other than BK could be the murderer of Kaylee Goncalves, Madison Mogen, Xana Kernodle, and Ethan Chapin. JMO

One of those reasonable people here you speak of. And I would conclude it is so. JMO

 

[Boxer]

The mountain of motions will not move the needle.

 

[fcavanaugh]

Can’t quote post from previous thread.
@Sor Juana said:
1. We don't even know whose knife was used.
2. If he had a white Bugatti and it was the only one around, then maybe you could call it a coincidence.
3. The late-night drive might seem odd, but in that town, partying and ordering food at 4 am is the norm, isn't it?
4. His cell phone goes dark during the murder window. Have you checked his logs?
5. Sure, criminals often return to the crime scene, we hear. But not that soon. This is more like an anxious guy checking things out.

*My thoughts:
1. It is reasonable and logical to infer/deduce that the knife used in the slaughter of 4 innocent people is owned by the same person whose 5 octillion DNA is on a portion of the use/pressure point of the knife sheath, which is used to literally house a knife, and which was found in the bed of one of the slaughtered victims.

2. Not really. A Bugatti would stand out like a sore thumb and have pointed LE BK’s way alot quicker as the owner of the car seen on surveillance doing the loop de loop circling odyssey just prior to the killings and speeding away from the scene after said killings. LE would have indentified him a lot faster due to the uniqueness of a car like that driving around a college town. Anyway after checking the cameras, they’d have found him faster checking vehicle registrations in the area of that type of car and likely had him go down to the station with them for an interview. Depending on how that went, BK might have confessed (doubt it), said something to the effect that yes it’s my car but I wasn’t driving it that night/early morning, it was stolen,
I lent it to my friend etc, etc. He may very well would have said I’m not saying anything and invoked his right to talk to an Attorney. In any case, if he didn’t confess, before letting him go, LE likely would have told him and/or his lawyer to not leave town in case they need more info from him/have more questions.
Anyway after all that explanation lol, there was no Bugatti involved here so it’s a non-issue.

3. Well by 4am I’m pretty sure for the most part things have quieted down significantly and most are sleeping even in a college town.
But that’s not why BK said he was driving around that night/early morning, he said it was to look at the moon and the stars/stargazing. That it was reported to have been cloudy that night, notwithstanding.

4. The state’s timeline evidence shows that his phone went dark during the murder window starting at 2:47am until when it came back online at 4:48am. Of course none of us have seen the logs, but I expect the Defense will put up an expert witness to try and cast doubt on the prosecution’s timeline and 2 hour black hole of BK’s phone, which they may opine is due to unreliableness of the prosecution’s reports, cell phone towers and triangulation etc. Tell you what though, if I’m a juror I would want a much better, reasonable explanation than that from BK/his Defense for the 2 hour blackout of his phone, especially if he didn’t have a habit/pattern of shutting his phone down for 2 hours on any of his other late night/early morning drives.

5. Have you never heard of a perp who shows up the same night/next day to the scene or close to it to search for the so called missing person that they in fact murdered? It has and does happen.
As for your last sentence, I agree,
BK was an anxious guy worried about the dropped/forgotten knife sheath and curious if the cops had been called which imo is why he drove over there later that morning around 9am.

IMHOO

ETA-fixed spelling, added words for clarification.