4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #101

[SteveP]

I have watched enough criminal cases over the years to know that there is no such thing as a slam dunk case. You never know when you are going to get that juror or two, in a trial, that just cannot seem to be able to grasp the concept of reasonable doubt, or a juror who may slip through the cracks, and onto a trial, who has some bias against law enforcement, or even one who does not understand forensic evidence, and zones out during testimony explaining it. Having said that, while this case, when it goes to trial, is expected to last about three months, I do not anticipate that it will take a jury very long to return a verdict of guilty of four counts of murder of the first degree. The defense will attempt to cast doubt on every piece of evidence that they can, but BK's DNA on the button of the bloody knife sheath will ultimately be a smoking gun that just cannot be explained away. I expect it may take the jury longer to decide the penalty phase than the guilt or innocence phase. JMO

 

[Boxer]

I have watched enough criminal cases over the years to know that there is no such thing as a slam dunk case. You never know when you are going to get that juror or two, in a trial, that just cannot seem to be able to grasp the concept of reasonable doubt, or a juror who may slip through the cracks, and onto a trial, who has some bias against law enforcement, or even one who does not understand forensic evidence, and zones out during testimony explaining it. Having said that, while this case, when it goes to trial, is expected to last about three months, I do not anticipate that it will take a jury very long to return a verdict of guilty of four counts of murder of the first degree. The defense will attempt to cast doubt on every piece of evidence that they can, but BK's DNA on the button of the bloody knife sheath will ultimately be a smoking gun that just cannot be explained away. I expect it may take the jury longer to decide the penalty phase than the guilt or innocence phase. JMO

Exactly. MOO his guilt is obvious but that does not mean a conviction is certain. No jury trial is a "slam-dunk."

 

[girlhasnoname]

Exactly. MOO his guilt is obvious but that does not mean a conviction is certain. No jury trial is a "slam-dunk."

Right, I also don't like to say 'slam dunk' at trial. The evidence may be clear and convincing, but all it takes is one sympathetic juror for a mistrial.

I honestly don't believe that will be the case here. The State has more evidence than what we know about now (gag order) and I think they'll present it a way that leaves no doubt that BK is indeed the killer here.

JMO

 

[MassGuy]

Right, I also don't like to say 'slam dunk' at trial. The evidence may be clear and convincing, but all it takes is one sympathetic juror for a mistrial.

I honestly don't believe that will be the case here. The State has more evidence than what we know about now (gag order) and I think they'll present it a way that leaves no doubt that BK is indeed the killer here.

JMO

If they believe the DNA on the face of it, then it's ballgame. Even if they don't though, the white car, the travel timing, and the damning cell phone blackout will surely push any logical juror over the edge.
A single purchase does the same. A Kbar that is missing. Some sort of protective coveralls.

We only have a broad outline at this point, but I'd bet the farm on us saying fairly early on, "I've seen enough. Call it."

 

[Sweeper2000]

its so weird, BK has seemingly made no efforts aside from cleaning his car to an "inch" to remove evidence or to hide it. amongst the evidence found at his home was the black mask matching the description of the intruder's. sounds like he had never done anything like it. its damning though that they knew he had cleaned his car and the bushy eyebrows seen on the perp is imo particurly damning.

ETA is also worthy to note he was seen disposing of trash with surgical gloves on.

anyone have more info on the ID cards found inside a box inside his home? and the differences in his elantra and the one LE initially stated was on the cams? they said it was a different model and with 22000 of them it leaves just the tiniest bit of wiggle room. I dont think the other dna types found at the crime scene matter much but i'm wondering why they get mentioned? blood on the bannister i think, frankly i'm surprised they only found three at a party house, must have been hundreds of people attend that property at one time or another.

 

[Bahshudc]

I've preordered Vicky Ward & James Patterson's book on this case. It's arriving July 22nd (Long shipping as I'm in the U.K). Happy to give a synopsis / things I found interesting once I've read it if that's allowed here? MOO

 

[NCWatcher]

its so weird, BK has seemingly made no efforts aside from cleaning his car to an "inch" to remove evidence or to hide it. amongst the evidence found at his home was the black mask matching the description of the intruder's. sounds like he had never done anything like it. its damning though that they knew he had cleaned his car and the bushy eyebrows seen on the perp is imo particurly damning.

ETA is also worthy to note he was seen disposing of trash with surgical gloves on.

anyone have more info on the ID cards found inside a box inside his home? and the differences in his elantra and the one LE initially stated was on the cams? they said it was a different model and with 22000 of them it leaves just the tiniest bit of wiggle room. I dont think the other dna types found at the crime scene matter much but i'm wondering why they get mentioned? blood on the bannister i think, frankly i'm surprised they only found three at a party house, must have been hundreds of people attend that property at one time or another.

BBM

Of course, there are questions about when/whether the witness actually mentioned "bushy eyebrows" (despite the many press accounts saying so) but that issue has already been thoroughly debated on WS.

I am curious though what description was given of the mask the intruder wore by this same witness? Other than "black mask" I've never seen any sort of description. So I wasn't aware a "matching" mask was found in BK's home (or that any mask any mask was found for that matter.) Also though, during COVID (and fall 2022 was during COVID) lots of people owned masks, including black ones. Everybody I knew had masks! While WSU stopped requiring all students & staff to mask in March 2022, the policy at ISU in Fall of 2022 was more restrictive. Updated COVID-19 Guidelines for Fall 2022
And even the government of the state of Washington in the fall of 2022 suggested masks be used under certain circumstances. Masks and Face Coverings
I'm not sure if any mask was found it would be particularly damning.

At any rate, a link with a description of the black mask found in BK's apartment (or in his parents' PA home if that's what you meant by "his home") and a link with the witness's description of the mask worn would be appreciated.
MOO

 

[Megnut]

BBM

Of course, there are questions about when/whether the witness actually mentioned "bushy eyebrows" (despite the many press accounts saying so) but that issue has already been thoroughly debated on WS.

I am curious though what description was given of the mask the intruder wore by this same witness? Other than "black mask" I've never seen any sort of description. So I wasn't aware a "matching" mask was found in BK's home (or that any mask any mask was found for that matter.) Also though, during COVID (and fall 2022 was during COVID) lots of people owned masks, including black ones. Everybody I knew had masks! While WSU stopped requiring all students & staff to mask in March 2022, the policy at ISU in Fall of 2022 was more restrictive. Updated COVID-19 Guidelines for Fall 2022
And even the government of the state of Washington in the fall of 2022 suggested masks be used under certain circumstances. Masks and Face Coverings
I'm not sure if any mask was found it would be particularly damning.

At any rate, a link with a description of the black mask found in BK's apartment (or in his parents' PA home if that's what you meant by "his home") and a link with the witness's description of the mask worn would be appreciated.
MOO

He was wearing a mask. I just don't think he was wearing a covid mask.

JMO

 

[NCWatcher]

He was wearing a mask. I just don't think he was wearing a covid mask.

JMO

What is a COVID mask though? There are various mask styles sold that cover the nose and mouth (assuming they are properly worn-- some people wear them below the nose!) While "respirators" like N95's were said to be most effective, most people wearing masks during the official COVID pandemic didn't have access to those. So what was the description of the mask the intruder wore? And how did it differ from a "COVID mask?" Surely it wasn't a ski mask if his eyebrows showed. And if you know, what kind of mask was found in his apartment? I wasn't aware any mask was found, much less one matching the witness's description as @Sweeper2000's earlier post stated.
MOO

 

[Sweeper2000]

BBM

Of course, there are questions about when/whether the witness actually mentioned "bushy eyebrows" (despite the many press accounts saying so) but that issue has already been thoroughly debated on WS.

I am curious though what description was given of the mask the intruder wore by this same witness? Other than "black mask" I've never seen any sort of description. So I wasn't aware a "matching" mask was found in BK's home (or that any mask any mask was found for that matter.) Also though, during COVID (and fall 2022 was during COVID) lots of people owned masks, including black ones. Everybody I knew had masks! While WSU stopped requiring all students & staff to mask in March 2022, the policy at ISU in Fall of 2022 was more restrictive. Updated COVID-19 Guidelines for Fall 2022
And even the government of the state of Washington in the fall of 2022 suggested masks be used under certain circumstances. Masks and Face Coverings
I'm not sure if any mask was found it would be particularly damning.

At any rate, a link with a description of the black mask found in BK's apartment (or in his parents' PA home if that's what you meant by "his home") and a link with the witness's description of the mask worn would be appreciated.
MOO

"Some of the items retrieved by investigators include a Smith and Wesson pocket knife, a cell phone, black gloves, black masks, laptops and a .40-calibre Glock 22 pistol."

"A witness who was at the property described the suspect as "a figure clad in black clothing and a mask that covered the person's mouth and nose," according to court documents."

we also have a description by the witness of a person with bushy eyebrows. so definitely not a balaclava and maybe shows the top portion of the head.

Idaho murder suspect Bryan Kohberger had knives and gun - court documents

New court documents show what police found following a raid at the family home of Bryan Kohberger.

www.bbc.co.uk

@NCWatcher

 

[Megnut]

I wonder if, by August, BK will have pencil-drawn eyebrows.

Really won't help especially if the State presents his old driver's license.

Wax on, wax off.

So even if he has no eyebrows at trial, that sharp brow still gives the impression of them.

JMO

 

[NCWatcher]

"Some of the items retrieved by investigators include a Smith and Wesson pocket knife, a cell phone, black gloves, black masks, laptops and a .40-calibre Glock 22 pistol."

"A witness who was at the property described the suspect as "a figure clad in black clothing and a mask that covered the person's mouth and nose," according to court documents."

we also have a description by the witness of a person with bushy eyebrows. so definitely not a balaclava and maybe shows the top portion of the head.

Idaho murder suspect Bryan Kohberger had knives and gun - court documents

New court documents show what police found following a raid at the family home of Bryan Kohberger.

www.bbc.co.uk

Thanks. In reading the linked article, those items seem to have been found at his parents' house in Pennsylvania, not at BK's house/apartment in Washington. And the article doesn't seem to describe the masks found other than they were black.

I do agree there's no reason to think the intruder wore a balaclava/ski mask.
MOO

 

[Sweeper2000]

What is a COVID mask though? There are various mask styles sold that cover the nose and mouth (assuming they are properly worn-- some people wear them below the nose!) While "respirators" like N95's were said to be most effective, most people wearing masks during the official COVID pandemic didn't have access to those. So what was the description of the mask the intruder wore? And how did it differ from a "COVID mask?" Surely it wasn't a ski mask if his eyebrows showed. And if you know, what kind of mask was found in his apartment? I wasn't aware any mask was found, much less one matching the witness's description as @Sweeper2000's earlier post stated.
MOO

I missed that tbh. I really dont think there is any other description of the mask to be seen. skant details from the witness. i did think a covid mask though, rectangular. in fact it makes sense if its just one he picked up from his aprents place.

ETA. the article states "masks" so presumably a bundle of the same ones.

 

[Megnut]

What is a COVID mask though? There are various mask styles sold that cover the nose and mouth (assuming they are properly worn-- some people wear them below the nose!) While "respirators" like N95's were said to be most effective, most people wearing masks during the official COVID pandemic didn't have access to those. So what was the description of the mask the intruder wore? And how did it differ from a "COVID mask?" Surely it wasn't a ski mask if his eyebrows showed. And if you know, what kind of mask was found in his apartment? I wasn't aware any mask was found, much less one matching the witness's description as @Sweeper2000's earlier post stated.
MOO

P. 11 of the Judge's response to the Defense's motion for a Frank's hearing --

A mask which covered his mouth and forehead

Kohberger warrant

www.documentcloud.org

 

[Sweeper2000]

P. 11 of the Judge's response to the Defense's motion for a Frank's hearing --

A mask which covered his mouth and forehead

Kohberger warrant

www.documentcloud.org

so where does the eyebrow bit come in?

 

[NoeticSoul]

P. 11 of the Judge's response to the Defense's motion for a Frank's hearing --

A mask which covered his mouth and forehead

Kohberger warrant

www.documentcloud.org

Sounds like a ski-mask. Not hiding that brow bone-structure and bushy brows though! imo

 

[NCWatcher]

P. 11 of the Judge's response to the Defense's motion for a Frank's hearing --

A mask which covered his mouth and forehead

Kohberger warrant

www.documentcloud.org

Thanks. I'll look for the page 11 blurb.

I've never heard of a mask that covers the mouth and forehead but not the nose AND has a forehead covering high enough to completely clear the eyebrows. What an odd sounding mask. Maybe some ski masks fit like that though.

If it didn't cover the nose, you are correct it wasn't a COVID mask.
MOO

 

[arielilane]

State of Idaho v. Bryan C. Kohberger​

Ada County CR01-24-31665 / Latah County CR29-22-2805

Case Summary (Updated 02/28/25)

• 02/28/2025 Order Temporarily Sealing February 24 2025 Filings

Idaho Judicial Cases of Interest

 

[Megnut]

Supporting DM all the way --

At the time she was awakened, she was unaware that a murderer had entered their house. Likely she wasn't aware of the Door Dash order, or XK's movements.

She had been drinking, had been sleeping, reasonable that she wasn't fully awake -- in fact, she wanted to get BACK to sleep --

All the things she (thought she) heard went through this filter, and nowhere was she imagining a prowler (until she heard a voice she didn't recognize), therefore, it was logical to ascribe the sounds she was hearing to the people she knew were there.

And when she came face to face with a masked intruder who was likely holding a knife that didn't even register correctly, it HAD to feel surreal, nightmarish -- especially since he didn't seem to notice her.

How absolutely mind bending.

SCARY AS HELL.

JMO

 

[mickey2942]

Supporting DM all the way --

At the time she was awakened, she was unaware that a murderer had entered their house. Likely she wasn't aware of the Door Dash order, or XK's movements.

She had been drinking, had been sleeping, reasonable that she wasn't fully awake -- in fact, she wanted to get BACK to sleep --

All the things she (thought she) heard went through this filter, and nowhere was she imagining a prowler (until she heard a voice she didn't recognize), therefore, it was logical to ascribe the sounds she was hearing to the people she knew were there.

And when she came face to face with a masked intruder who was likely holding a knife that didn't even register correctly, it HAD to feel surreal, nightmarish -- especially since he didn't seem to notice her.

How absolutely mind bending.

SCARY AS HELL.

JMO

Reminiscent of the "Freddie Kruger" movies, "Friday the 13th" genre. We always wondered why the victims were in a large, dark house, and never seemed to turn on the lights.

Scary to think someone like BK may have watched movies like that, and used it as a "training" film.