4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #101

New Posts

Status
Not open for further replies.
I'm going to toss something out there. It is taken as given that KG was sleeping in the same bed as MM to start with. Is there anything that would prevent the following scenario:
MM is in her own bed, passed out. KG is in her own room with the dog. She hears a noise in the hallway, steps out of the room (maybe shutting the door behind her, I don't recall if they said if it was shut or not), says "Is someone here?" sees MMs door open and walks in. MM has already been stabbed and is deceased, killer attacks KG and pushes/throws her on the bed (even to the other side of the bed). (This might assume that Xana is getting her door dash at that precise minute or is wearing headphones)

Was there something that ruled that out? TIA.
 
Boxer said:
Such a conciousness of guilt to go to the house the following morning before even the roommates knew what happened.
Click to expand...
If he even has one of those switches. It may have been a thrill for him. Who really knows?
Megnut said:
I wonder how near he dared to drive that morning and what thoughts passed through his brains. He had to be disappointed with the absence of a law enforcement/media spectacle.

How it must have shocked his dense senses to see no response at all.

Sadly, I think he's rather enjoying the theatre of BK it's become.

JMO
Click to expand...
We may find out if cell data shows him returning. That would be the ultimate insult to the smartest guy in the room wouldn’t it? Other than the buddy jacket left behind, the ultimate insult to his intelligence other than potentially him getting off by being there.

Weirdo.🙄

MOO
 
Ghostwheel said:
I'm going to toss something out there. It is taken as given that KG was sleeping in the same bed as MM to start with. Is there anything that would prevent the following scenario:
MM is in her own bed, passed out. KG is in her own room with the dog. She hears a noise in the hallway, steps out of the room (maybe shutting the door behind her, I don't recall if they said if it was shut or not), says "Is someone here?" sees MMs door open and walks in. MM has already been stabbed and is deceased, killer attacks KG and pushes/throws her on the bed (even to the other side of the bed). (This might assume that Xana is getting her door dash at that precise minute or is wearing headphones)

Was there something that ruled that out? TIA.
Click to expand...

Factors that I think would have helped the police rule that out, IMHO:

1) whether or not KG's sheets in her room showed any sign of her having slept in it
2) KG's parents/either of MM's parents saying that the girls sharing a bed was something common for them to do back when they were in high school, etc. or one of the surviving roommates noting it as something not out of the ordinary when the girls were up late
3) the position KG was found in in combination with the small amount of floor space in the room, per KG's parents after seeing crime scene photos. While it might be easy to throw her onto the bed, it would be hard to have her end up in that position fully over on that side between MM and the wall, esp if MM had started the night alone (where she likely would have slept more towards the middle of the bed)

“The side where Kaylee was, was up against the wall. And if you can imagine, Kaylee in an upright sort of position – up in the corner – slumped. I mean she was trapped,” Ms Goncalves told ABC News. “The bed was the entire room. You could barely open up the door without swiping the foot of the bed - and it was wall. The headboard was up against the wall.”

www.the-independent.com

Idaho murder victim Kaylee Goncalves’ parents reveal her body was found ‘trapped’

‘She was trapped’ in corner of the bedroom, the slain 21-year-old’s mother said
www.the-independent.com www.the-independent.com
4) If Maddie was already stabbed and bloody, throwing KG on top of her or over her would likely cause there to be blood stains on the underside of KG's body/clothing that wouldn't fit with the position she was found in
 
gremlin444 said:
Factors that I think would have helped the police rule that out, IMHO:

1) whether or not KG's sheets in her room showed any sign of her having slept in it
2) KG's parents/either of MM's parents saying that the girls sharing a bed was something common for them to do back when they were in high school, etc. or one of the surviving roommates noting it as something not out of the ordinary when the girls were up late
3) the position KG was found in in combination with the small amount of floor space in the room, per KG's parents after seeing crime scene photos. While it might be easy to throw her onto the bed, it would be hard to have her end up in that position fully over on that side between MM and the wall, esp if MM had started the night alone (where she likely would have slept more towards the middle of the bed)

“The side where Kaylee was, was up against the wall. And if you can imagine, Kaylee in an upright sort of position – up in the corner – slumped. I mean she was trapped,” Ms Goncalves told ABC News. “The bed was the entire room. You could barely open up the door without swiping the foot of the bed - and it was wall. The headboard was up against the wall.”

www.the-independent.com

Idaho murder victim Kaylee Goncalves’ parents reveal her body was found ‘trapped’

‘She was trapped’ in corner of the bedroom, the slain 21-year-old’s mother said
www.the-independent.com www.the-independent.com
4) If Maddie was already stabbed and bloody, throwing KG on top of her or over her would likely cause there to be blood stains on the underside of KG's body/clothing that wouldn't fit with the position she was found in
Click to expand...
These are good points but let me ask
1) I don't know that we know the answer to that. Do we?
2) That it was common is why the assumption was made. But they didn't always and there was the dog to take into consideration.
3) When I look at the set up of the room, it makes sense to me. Say the killer was in the closet after stabbing KG, or maybe in the dark corner opposite the door and the door was only partially open. KG comes around the side of the bed to see if MM is OK or heard anything, killer pops out of the closet or darkness, blocks the escape, stabs KG, pushes her over MM and maybe stabs some more, or maybe KG is already mostly gone but in trying to escape jumps over MM and slumps in the corner. It would also explain if she had worse body injuries (I won't go in to detail). I mean, I can easily see it.
4) How do we know there isn't?

KG's family is very vocal and have their opinions. And because they are, is it possible people now believe something to be fact that may not be?

Anyway, it was something I was thinking about. Thank you for the response.
 
I've heard 911 operators state here on WS that they prefer to use the all-encompassing term "UNRESPONSIVE" (for death/fainting spell/overdose/murder/suicide/accident/you name it) because:
  • it saves crucial seconds but gets paramedics going
  • neither the caller nor the 911 operator (usually) are medical doctors or accident reconstructionists, thus, have no 💯 information at that moment. Within minutes, the pros (EMTs/LE) will take over at the scene and get that accurate patient/scene info.
This is especially impt when there's uncertainty (as in this case with B&D). The most that the girls knew was that their roommates were NOT RESPONDING to calls or texts, so that was an easy "yes" when they were asked if they had UNRESPONSIVE roommates. B&D had probably snuck straight out the front door to meet the guys outside in the morning and NOT gone to check. I wouldn't have!

Now, when the one male did go in and perhaps venture just close enough to see the body of X in the open doorway (who was not responding to his voice), he too could confirm that she was "unresponsive." Her room may have been dark, the hall as well, and if she was wearing dark clothing, he may not have seen any blood. Or, if he did, he may have kept quiet in order to not upset B&D. He just confirmed the "unresponsive" status and knew the paramedics and police would be there soon to deal with the details and reality.

With so many people talking on the phone, the operator didn't get too far beyond initial questions, and had to repeat them multiple times. B&D had NOT seen blood, so they didn't mention it. If the male saw blood, there was no need to mention it since the cops were already there and the call came to an end.

I hope this explains why the blood may not have come up in that call! Nothing odd about it because there was confusion and lack of knowledge in the moment.
 
Last edited:
gremlin444 said:
Factors that I think would have helped the police rule that out, IMHO:

1) whether or not KG's sheets in her room showed any sign of her having slept in it
2) KG's parents/either of MM's parents saying that the girls sharing a bed was something common for them to do back when they were in high school, etc. or one of the surviving roommates noting it as something not out of the ordinary when the girls were up late
3) the position KG was found in in combination with the small amount of floor space in the room, per KG's parents after seeing crime scene photos. While it might be easy to throw her onto the bed, it would be hard to have her end up in that position fully over on that side between MM and the wall, esp if MM had started the night alone (where she likely would have slept more towards the middle of the bed)

“The side where Kaylee was, was up against the wall. And if you can imagine, Kaylee in an upright sort of position – up in the corner – slumped. I mean she was trapped,” Ms Goncalves told ABC News. “The bed was the entire room. You could barely open up the door without swiping the foot of the bed - and it was wall. The headboard was up against the wall.”

www.the-independent.com

Idaho murder victim Kaylee Goncalves’ parents reveal her body was found ‘trapped’

‘She was trapped’ in corner of the bedroom, the slain 21-year-old’s mother said
www.the-independent.com www.the-independent.com
4) If Maddie was already stabbed and bloody, throwing KG on top of her or over her would likely cause there to be blood stains on the underside of KG's body/clothing that wouldn't fit with the position she was found in
Click to expand...
Reading, this I just put a picture in my head to where the knife sheath was likely found. Since MM was on the outside side of the bed (the near side to the killer), the killer removes the knife from the sheath (drops it? Slides it into a pocket where it drops out later?). It was said it was found near MM partially under the blanket if I’m remembering correctly. So after stabbing MM, he likely had to reach over her to stab KG and more violently than MM who was likely sleeping. Could have fallen out then.

JMO.
 
Nila Aella said:
DM was responding to a question about the man she saw in her house:

Franks Order
D.M. was shown Defendant's mug shot and asked by Detective Lake whether Defendant was the person she saw in her house. D.M. responded: I have no clue. From what I remember, I just remember seeing this figure that was .... more of like the skinnier tone build, and some mask on ... I don't know if it was covering his mouth, his nose, or below his mouth and nose. I just remember he was white, but I didn't know how he was white. I just knew he was. And ... I knew he looked at me because of the bushy eyebrows.

Click to expand...
DM gave 3 or 4 interviews to LE and a deposition to the Defense IIRC.
 
Gigiky said:
Just a side note. I'm not really digging the new color scheme of the web page. it makes it harder to read. but I'm blind as a bat anyway even with my glasses. Lol
Click to expand...

There's a little quill icon down the furthest bottom left of the screen and you can change it back, also the day / night black or white background is a little circle next to that. So it can be changed, thankfully!
 
girlhasnoname said:
DM gave 3 or 4 interviews to LE and a deposition to the Defense IIRC.
Click to expand...
MIL Eyebrows

Nov 13 - 2 interviews
Nov 17th
Dec 1
Dec 30
May 15 GJ testimony

My post was responding to comments specifically about DM not recognizing BK after his arrest
The series of posts started with this one:
Balthazar said:
LE said that DM looked up BK's photo as soon as she heard he was arrested and she told LE that she didn't recognize him. BTW, this information came from Ashley Jennings - the prosecutor, not AT. This was in the Jan 23 hearing.
Click to expand...
The MIL Eyebrows relevant facts

On December 30, 2022, after the arrest of Mr. Kohberger, D.M. was interviewed by Detective Lake and Detective Tolleson. When she learned that an arrest had been made, she found a mugshot of Mr. Kohberger online. When asked if Mr. Kohberger was the person that she saw in the house, she did not know if Mr. Kohberger was the intruder.

Franks Order

During her December 30, 2022 interview with law enforcement, D.M. was shown Defendant's mug shot and asked by Detective Lake whether Defendant was the person she saw in her house. D.M. responded:

I have no clue. From what I remember, I just remember seeing this figure that was .... more of like the skinnier tone build, and some mask on ... I don't know if it was covering his mouth, his nose, or below his mouth and nose. I just remember he was white, but I didn't know how he was white. I just knew he was. And ... I knew he looked at me because of the bushy eyebrows.
https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/CR01-24-31665/2025/021925-Order-Defedants-Moton-Franks-Hearing.pdf

JMO
 
Nila Aella said:
MIL Eyebrows

Nov 13 - 2 interviews
Nov 17th
Dec 1
Dec 30
May 15 GJ testimony

My post was responding to comments specifically about DM not recognizing BK after his arrest
The series of posts started with this one:

The MIL Eyebrows relevant facts

On December 30, 2022, after the arrest of Mr. Kohberger, D.M. was interviewed by Detective Lake and Detective Tolleson. When she learned that an arrest had been made, she found a mugshot of Mr. Kohberger online. When asked if Mr. Kohberger was the person that she saw in the house, she did not know if Mr. Kohberger was the intruder.

Franks Order

During her December 30, 2022 interview with law enforcement, D.M. was shown Defendant's mug shot and asked by Detective Lake whether Defendant was the person she saw in her house. D.M. responded:

I have no clue. From what I remember, I just remember seeing this figure that was .... more of like the skinnier tone build, and some mask on ... I don't know if it was covering his mouth, his nose, or below his mouth and nose. I just remember he was white, but I didn't know how he was white. I just knew he was. And ... I knew he looked at me because of the bushy eyebrows.
https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/CR01-24-31665/2025/021925-Order-Defedants-Moton-Franks-Hearing.pdf

JMO
Click to expand...
Thanks for those NA. I can see the 2 LE interviews on Nov 13th being frantic as it had just happened, Nov 17th and Dec 1st I can see as a bit more detailed as DM had time to process what had happened.

The Dec 30th MIL interview which you have linked seems to have the most information and after being shown a photo of BK, although she didn't positively identify him as the man she saw, she also did not definitively rule him out either. Her description IMO, was an accurate description of BK in general.
DM also stated from that document first paragraph page 6:

"All that she remembered was some bushy eyebrows, and all black and some sort of mask".

In consideration of all the factors happening at the time and the mere second(s) in which she observed BK, I think her testimony is reliable and will help the State not harm DM or their case.

JMO
 
IMO DMs eye witness evidence is most important to establish the timeline, and a single male attacker.

Eyebrows are a small point of potential corroboration of little significance.

Which is why the defence will want to elevate it into the most important failure of the witness.

MOO
 
mrjitty said:
IMO DMs eye witness evidence is most important to establish the timeline, and a single male attacker.

Eyebrows are a small point of potential corroboration of little significance.

Which is why the defence will want to elevate it into the most important failure of the witness.

MOO
Click to expand...
Sure. But if she said the person had "no eyebrows" it would arguably be slightly damaging to the prosecutions case. So the bushy eye brows do have some value. Particularly when you consider that the Pullman PD officer noted BK's bushy eye brows when examining his license picture.
 
schooling said:
Sure. But if she said the person had "no eyebrows" it would arguably be slightly damaging to the prosecutions case. So the bushy eye brows do have some value. Particularly when you consider that the Pullman PD officer noted BK's bushy eye brows when examining his license picture.
Click to expand...

Yeah - i was more commenting on the need to finely slice every detail of the case as if the defendant hadn't metaphorically left his photo ID at the scene
 
schooling said:
Sure. But if she said the person had "no eyebrows" it would arguably be slightly damaging to the prosecutions case. So the bushy eye brows do have some value. Particularly when you consider that the Pullman PD officer noted BK's bushy eye brows when examining his license picture.
Click to expand...
I am waiting to find out who brought up the term “bushy” first.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

ChatteringBirds
  • Locked
4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #89
50 51 52
Replies
1K
Views
135K
Knitty
Knitty
ChatteringBirds
  • Locked
4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #100
51 52 53
Replies
1K
Views
51K
Knitty
Knitty
ChatteringBirds
  • Locked
4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #99
54 55 56
Replies
1K
Views
59K
MadMcGoo
MadMcGoo
ChatteringBirds
  • Locked
4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #98
70 71 72
Replies
1K
Views
78K
Sillybilly
Sillybilly
ChatteringBirds
  • Locked
4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #97
48 49 50
Replies
996
Views
66K
Knitty
Knitty

Staff online

Members online

... and 117 more.
Total: 1,413 (members: 118, guests: 1,295)

Online statistics

Members online
118
Guests online
1,295
Total visitors
1,413
Totals may include hidden visitors.

Forum statistics

Threads
623,057
Messages
18,461,485
Members
240,257
Latest member
FrenchieMama.5
Back
Top