4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #102

[al66pine]

Simply eyeballing?

SBM

I think the selfie does show BK’s left hand and that the photo has not been reversed or mirrored.

This is because the picture as published has buttons of the shirt on the right, the “man’s side”, and not on the left. This is not incontrovertible as BK might prefer lady’s shirts. (Ha ha.)

I’m not replying to Gemmie but using using their photo because I love that they have symbolically guillotined BK.

snipped for focus. @Orange Tabby
Thanks for raising the point about which side of BK's shirt the buttons are on. Not incontrovertible, but I'll put $ on image not being reversed.

Amidst tech talk about DNA random match probability of 5.37 octibazillijillikillinion to one, it's refreshing to see a helpful no- or low-tech observation from day to day living, which we often overlook. I know I did.

____________________________________________
FWIW
"Men's and Women's Shirts"
"There is one difference between men’s and women’s shirts: the placement of the buttons and buttonholes. Men’s shirts have buttons on the right. Women’s shirts have buttons on the left."
The Shirt Ontology

"If you wear women’s clothing, the buttons are on the left side of the shirt. However, if you wear men’s shirts, the buttons line up on the right."

Men's Shirts Button on the Right. Why Do Women's Button on the Left?

Nobody knows for sure, but plausible theories include swords, servants and saddles

www.smithsonianmag.com

 

[Gemmie]

Every time I read this I am struck by the need to specify that "Just before this room was a bathroom door on the south wall of the hallway." Why the need to specify this if it didn't matter? They didn't specify that just before the bathroom on the left there were stairs going down on the right. I'll just have to wait to find out.

OK. As promised @Ghostwheel ... here's what I think about why Brett Payne's statement mentioned the 2nd floor bathroom. It's my belief that the officer was merely mentioning the rooms on the floors of the murdered as they also mentioned the bathroom and Kaylee's BD on the 3rd floor. (see quote at the bottom of this post)

The only reason I think the officer didn't mention DMs room was because of this "OFC Smith directed me down the hallway to the west bedroom". So basically, as soon as they got to the top of the stairs it's my opinion that OFC Smith likely pointed and said "It's that way". Keep in mind that the stairs open up into the living room, which is a much larger floorplan than the 3rd floor. So "Down there/that way" make sense to me.

It's also my opinion that had he been doing his walk-thru without someone directing him on what room had the murdered in them, he'd have also noted DM's bedroom, as well as what rooms were on the 1st floor. Also, no mention of the rooms on the first floor because only the 2nd and 3rd floors mattered at the moment. He just immediately goes to they entered through the front door and then went upstairs:

OFC Smith and I entered the King Road Residence through the bottom floor door on the north side of the building. OFC Smith and I then walked upstairs to the second floor.

Full quote for 2nd floor:

OFC Smith and I entered the King Road Residence through the bottom floor door on the north side of the building. OFC Smith and I then walked upstairs to the second floor. OFC Smith directed me down the hallway to the west bedroom on the second floor, which I later learned (through Xana's driver's license and other personal belongings found in the room) was Xana Kernodle's, hereafter "Kernodle" room. Just before this room there was a bathroom door on the south wall of the hallway.

3rd floor quote:

I then followed OFC Smith upstairs to the third floor of the residence. The third floor consisted of two bedrooms and one bathroom. The bedroom on the west side of the floor was later determined to be Kaylee Goncalves, hereafter *Goncalves," room. I later learned (from review of Officer Nunes' body caurera) there was a dog in the room when Moscow Police Officers initially responded. The dog belonged to Goncalves and her ex-boyfriend JD. I found out from my interview with JD on November 13 , 2022 that he and Goncalves shared the dog. OFC Smith then pointed out a small bathroom on the east side of the third floor. This bathroom shared a wall with lvladison Mogen's, hereafter "Mogen" bedroom which was situated on the southeast comer of the third floor.

Bryan Kohberger arrest affidavit in Idaho murders

www.documentcloud.org

 

[I am not Sherlock H.]

More of the descriptions provided by DM here, and this intriguing nugget:
View attachment 572265

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/CR01-24-31665/2025/031725-States-Response-Defendants-MiL-7-RE-Witness-Identification-Bushy-Eyebrows.pdf

Thanks for sharing that information and thought @MassGuy …… interesting to read that…… and from that was thinking along these lines….

I watched a recent episode IIRC with Kelly Siegler, and it was I believe on one of the Robert Durst trials in Texas. Some of the methods the defense used in that trial…… defense counsel had their seats elevated, and the defendant’s seat was lowered to full extent. And IIRC the defendant was also rather animated in some of his gestures in that trial.

One would imagine something similar here with BK trial. To do something to make their client appear small and unmenacing. And I expect that those eyebrows will be further plucked, clipped, and coiffed for this trial. (But it might be difficult to outrun earlier evidence showing the opposite….. and have to wonder if any attempts might actually work the opposite against the defense?)

And a note also….. IIRC, during breaks or recess of the Durst trial one of the bailiffs or attendants would raise the defendant’s chair back to proper normal height. MOO

 

[I am not Sherlock H.]

OMG

Response, Bushy Eyebrows

The photo of BK, presumably a thumbs up in the mirror

I have no words.

Not posting it but you can find it on P 17. You won't be able to unsee it.

JMO

Thanks @Megnut ….. I will take the advice given and pass on it……

But have to wonder, on the timing if so…… maybe that was taken before the realization that the knife sheath was not accounted for? And / or was perhaps someone over confidently assured that it did not contain any evidence capable of linking them to the crime at that time? MOO

 

[Megnut]

The 911 call with enhanced audio

3 days ago but pinning it here for anyone wanting to listen again. First couple of minutes in this video.

 

[Twistinginthewind]

It stuns me that he left a Walmart receipt, and the tag of a dickies. For someone who thought they were pulling off the perfect crime, these are stupid mistakes!

Yes, agree it's mind boggling. Sceptical, though, maybe he intentionally left some 'bread crumbs' like that, just enough to peak the interest of LE but nothing they could get much traction from, maybe going nowhere but....

At the end of the recent long list of new filings with links posted by Massguy earlier in the week, there were 40-50+ previous requests by LE for info that the defense was asking about on why/what for, including one by BK for a purchase from Under Armor in June of 2022... & they happen to sell "tactical gear", which could be another bread crumb leading somewhere or nowhere, IMO.

 

[Odeto BJ]

A footnote in the Amazon/Click activity response from State:

"The State recognizes that the identity of the user making the inquiries is relevant, and the State intends to rely not only on the click activity but also other circumstances to connect the Defendant to the original knife purchase and subsequent search inquiries for a replacement knife and/or sheath. This will include the Defendant’s financial activities; the click activities vis-a-vis other events, such as the homicides; a related purchase activity connected only to the Defendant; and testimony from witnesses with
knowledge that the Defendant purchased a Ka-Bar knife."

"Testimony from witnesses with knowledge...." MOO that infers one of two scenarios: either one or more family members or members on the same account are going to be testifying; or BK showed off his shiny big knife to someone outside the family, sometime between early April and early November.

The former: A bunch of uncomfortable for the family and the defense. The latter: Leaves the defense very little wiggle room....

Not the sharpest knife in the drawer. MOO

 

[schooling]

Yes, agree it's mind boggling. Sceptical, though, maybe he intentionally left some 'bread crumbs' like that, just enough to peak the interest of LE but nothing they could get much traction from, maybe going nowhere but....

At the end of the recent long list of new filings with links posted by Massguy earlier in the week, there were 40-50+ previous requests by LE for info that the defense was asking about on why/what for, including one by BK for a purchase from Under Armor in June of 2022... & they happen to sell "tactical gear", which could be another bread crumb leading somewhere or nowhere, IMO.

The more we find out, the more we realize clumsy and idiotic BKs plan was. IMO the only reason this even feels like a mystery is because the internet has raised the bar on what they think is evidence. To meet today's standards you pretty much need 4K video with 400 witnesses who don't blink. And if there's any DNA transfer all 400 witnesses have to see it. JMO

BK is no criminal mastermind. IMO he wanted to get away with it and never come up on police radar. And if anything he was taking steps to mitigate any potential police questioning. The picture, searching for a replacement knife, etc. He bumbled his way through this thing.


JMO

 

[femto]

Agree.

There is No perfect crime...but he did do several things right...

1) He did not leave any of their DNA in his car or in his apartment. That's astonishing. And is very hard to do to get blood completely out of seatbelt webbing, for example.
2) Successfully disposed of his bloody clothing and murder weapon.
3) He turned his phone off at times, although that just makes him look even more guilty.
4) He covered most of his face. Partial description of bushy eyebrows and height/strength will not exclude him but is not obviously as definitive as his full face.


His mistakes:
1) Not soaking the sheath completely to kill the DNA in the snap. If he had done this, I don't think we have even an arrest. he goes Scott free.
2) Not having 2 license plates on his car as if from Washington or Idaho.
3) Driving back by the murder scene the next day

All in all in my opinion, this case is all about the DNA.

The other circumstantial evidence (purchase of coveralls, purchase of KBAR knife, Elantra video, phone records vs towers, creepy behavior in PA, etc.) will be very helpful in a conviction to buttress the DNA.

Just my 2 cents worth.

I mean he did 3 absolutely crucial, downright amateur mistakes that are even more surprising for someone who studies criminology and 'prepared' for the crime

1. Bringing your personal car to the crime scene is lunacy these days with the amount of cameras everywhere. Especially stupid in a small town where it'll be particularly quick to narrow it down. He was extremely lucky not to get caught in the first week because the detectives bungled the initial tip. Should have went with a bike or even taken a walk. It's not like it would have taken long.

2. Bringing the knife sheath which led to them getting his DNA. This one is particularly puzzling to me because it doesn't seem logical to bring the sheath at all if your intention is to kill. Which leads me to believe his intention might have been to threaten and sexually assault Maddie rather than what happened, but obviously it might have been the adrenaline rush and him losing his head which I wouldn't put past him given his other bungles. Either way, a very, very stupid mistake

3. Taking your cell phone with you, turning it off at Moscow and then turning it back on in Pullman is such a braindead move. Why take the phone at all? Even people not well versed in technology should know that the towers can track your phone pings regardless whether it is on ir off.

Even if he didnt leave the sheath and they had none of his DNA, his car and phone movements are easily trackable, non-explainable and absolutely bury him. The DNA just confirms it, but it isn't what nailed him. They could have had his DNA all day, every day but without nothing to connect it to it doesn't really matter.

 

[schooling]

A footnote in the Amazon/Click activity response from State:

"The State recognizes that the identity of the user making the inquiries is relevant, and the State intends to rely not only on the click activity but also other circumstances to connect the Defendant to the original knife purchase and subsequent search inquiries for a replacement knife and/or sheath. This will include the Defendant’s financial activities; the click activities vis-a-vis other events, such as the homicides; a related purchase activity connected only to the Defendant; and testimony from witnesses with
knowledge that the Defendant purchased a Ka-Bar knife."

"Testimony from witnesses with knowledge...." MOO that infers one of two scenarios: either one or more family members or members on the same account are going to be testifying; or BK showed off his shiny big knife to someone outside the family, sometime between early April and early November.

The former: A bunch of uncomfortable for the family and the defense. The latter: Leaves the defense very little wiggle room....

Not the sharpest knife in the drawer. MOO

At a recent hearing AT argued that the person was able to give LE information that was specific enough that they knew exactly what to ask Amazon for. Since the warrant has a specific date range, I believe that LE knew for certain that BK bought the knife on 3/30/2022. JMO.

I don't think it would be a stretch to think that his sister suspected him before his arrival back in PA and his behavior only further suspisions. If she or anyone else in the family remembered BK purchasing a similar knife, they knew what car he drove, what area he went to school in.....it's not hard to imagine that they found said record of transaction. JMO

MOO.

 

[schooling]

I mean he did 3 absolutely crucial, downright amateur mistakes that are even more surprising for someone who studies criminology and 'prepared' for the crime

1. Bringing your personal car to the crime scene is lunacy these days with the amount of cameras everywhere. Especially stupid in a small town where it'll be particularly quick to narrow it down. He was extremely lucky not to get caught in the first week because the detectives bungled the initial tip. Should have went with a bike or even taken a walk. It's not like it would have taken long.

2. Bringing the knife sheath which led to them getting his DNA. This one is particularly puzzling to me because it doesn't seem logical to bring the sheath at all if your intention is to kill. Which leads me to believe his intention might have been to threaten and sexually assault Maddie rather than what happened, but obviously it might have been the adrenaline rush and him losing his head which I wouldn't put past him given his other bungles. Either way, a very, very stupid mistake

3. Taking your cell phone with you, turning it off at Moscow and then turning it back on in Pullman is such a braindead move. Why take the phone at all? Even people not well versed in technology should know that the towers can track your phone pings regardless whether it is on ir off.

Even if he didnt leave the sheath and they had none of his DNA, his car and phone movements are easily trackable, non-explainable and absolutely bury him. The DNA just confirms it, but it isn't what nailed him. They could have had his DNA all day, every day but without nothing to connect it to it doesn't really matter.

It would have been a hour bike ride and a 3 1/2 hour walk. I bet he had canvased the neighborhood for cameras multiple times and whatever he saw (or better yet didnt see) made him feel comfortable. He knew he would have a new front plate soon. His car had no distinct stickers, dents, etc. Other than stealing a car his own personal car was his only/best choice. JMO

Also, maybe he brought the sheath so he could take it out and put it away? I'd imagine that you're not going to put something that large in your pocket as you jump, run, escape, change, whatever. And it ultimately would have been key in him transporting it out of there without cutting anything or himself. JMO

You phone can't ping off towers or be tracked if cellular is off. which typically if airplane mode is on or your phone is completely off.JMO

Some phones keep GPS on but without wifi or tower data they would need physical access to your phone to retrieve that information. JMO

This is why LE only knows where BK was when his phone was turn off and then turned back on. Where I'm going to suspect he slipped up is that he didn't turn off his phone at all. He put it into Airplane mode. Which killed the cellular but left Wifi and Bluetooth on. And they are going to find his phone's MAC address in the house on a bluetooth enabled device and maybe their wifi router. All of our phones do the same thing when we merely walk down the street. Retailers and LE exploit this to track people in public places. JMO

I am not an expert on anything cellular, wifi, or bluetooth. Just for the record.

Remember. Our brains aren't wired like his BKs. We would never even approach someones front door and jiggle the door knob without being invited inside. Never mind enter someones home and murder 4 complete strangers. MOO

Compulsion probably overcame logic and he convinced himself tall of the things you mentioned weren't a big deal. (IMO)

 

[Boxer]

Thanks @Megnut ….. I will take the advice given and pass on it……

But have to wonder, on the timing if so…… maybe that was taken before the realization that the knife sheath was not accounted for? And / or was perhaps someone over confidently assured that it did not contain any evidence capable of linking them to the crime at that time? MOO

I think he thought it was clean. For instance forgot that upon opening the Amazon bag he had unsnapped it once in bare hands. Thankfully, he did make sloppy errors.

 

[SteveP]

I mean he did 3 absolutely crucial, downright amateur mistakes that are even more surprising for someone who studies criminology and 'prepared' for the crime

1. Bringing your personal car to the crime scene is lunacy these days with the amount of cameras everywhere. Especially stupid in a small town where it'll be particularly quick to narrow it down. He was extremely lucky not to get caught in the first week because the detectives bungled the initial tip. Should have went with a bike or even taken a walk. It's not like it would have taken long.

2. Bringing the knife sheath which led to them getting his DNA. This one is particularly puzzling to me because it doesn't seem logical to bring the sheath at all if your intention is to kill. Which leads me to believe his intention might have been to threaten and sexually assault Maddie rather than what happened, but obviously it might have been the adrenaline rush and him losing his head which I wouldn't put past him given his other bungles. Either way, a very, very stupid mistake

3. Taking your cell phone with you, turning it off at Moscow and then turning it back on in Pullman is such a braindead move. Why take the phone at all? Even people not well versed in technology should know that the towers can track your phone pings regardless whether it is on ir off.

Even if he didnt leave the sheath and they had none of his DNA, his car and phone movements are easily trackable, non-explainable and absolutely bury him. The DNA just confirms it, but it isn't what nailed him. They could have had his DNA all day, every day but without nothing to connect it to it doesn't really matter.

Unless I misunderstand the technology, towers cannot track phone pings when a phone is powered off, as it is not communicating with the tower. It can be determined the location that it was powered off and powered back on, but it can tell nothing about the phone while it is actually powered off. Btw, do we actually know what his phone was? I have seen it referred to by digits, but is it an Android or an IPhone? ANd would that matter at all, as far as trackable abilities?

Also, we will never know, bc BK is not likely to tell us, but I do not believe his intent was to threaten and SA MM. I believe his intent was to kill her. JMO

 

[Megnut]

Unless I misunderstand the technology, towers cannot track phone pings when a phone is powered off, as it is not communicating with the tower. It can be determined the location that it was powered off and powered back on, but it can tell nothing about the phone while it is actually powered off. Btw, do we actually know what his phone was? I have seen it referred to by digits, but is it an Android or an IPhone? and would that matter at all?

Also, we will never know, bc BK is not likely to tell us, but I do not believe his intent was to threaten and SA MM. I believe his intent was to kill her. JMO

Rbbm

I think his intention was to kill her and his motive was sexual in nature. Power and dominance, substituted and performative.

JMO

 

[Boxer]

Unless I misunderstand the technology, towers cannot track phone pings when a phone is powered off, as it is not communicating with the tower. It can be determined the location that it was powered off and powered back on, but it can tell nothing about the phone while it is actually powered off. Btw, do we actually know what his phone was? I have seen it referred to by digits, but is it an Android or an IPhone? and would that matter at all?

Also, we will never know, bc BK is not likely to tell us, but I do not believe his intent was to threaten and SA MM. I believe his intent was to kill her. JMO

His earbuds look Android based.

 

[Megnut]

His earbuds look Android based.

Assuming they're his.

Some people can't resist.

JMO

 

[SteveP]

Rbbm

I think his intention was to kill her and his motive was sexual in nature. Power and dominance, substituted and performative.

JMO

I do agree with this.

 

[fcavanaugh]

The errors he made are as if he used the logic of cases 20 or more years ago for his parameters.
Those cases would heve been solved today if they were committed in the preaent.
Cameras, cameras, cameras a perpetrator cannot get close in a vehicle without beingnon camera.
Fotis Dulos got to his wife house to murder her, parking a mile away and approaching on a bike. Still on camera as a school bus with cameras caught the parked car and other cameras cought him biking.

I know right?! It’s absolutely mind boggling they do these stupid things and think they’ll get away with it! Well I guess therein lies the point- mind boggling to us rational civilized law abiding citizens, that is.

IMO, I believe a lot of it comes down to hubris for many of these imo antisocial cold blooded murderers. IMO these people seem to struggle (to put it mildly) following and abiding societal rules and laws, are usually arrogant, entitled, have no conscience, no compassion or empathy for others, and think rules and laws apply to everyone but themselves.

IMO, their arrogance and feelings of entitlement clouds their thinking, judgment, permeates through most, if not every, aspect of their life affecting their interactions and relationships with others.
And by that I mean they usually end up destroying their target(s)/victim(s) in one fashion or another whether they have a close or somewhat close relationship to their target(s)/victim(s), or not i.e., stalking and/or trolling, seeking out unaware targets victims imo like BK in this case.

In some cases the person(s) gets lucky and manages to escape with their life albeit they’re usually emotionally/psychologically destroyed and struggle to put their lives back together but at least they’re still alive and have a chance to heal/recover from the devastation.
Sadly and unfortunately for many others as history shows, their literal physical lives are destroyed AKA killed by the monster that has no regard for human life/feels it’s their right to take the life of another human being(s) for whatever reason the perpetrator deems ‘necessary’ imo usually for some perceived wrong in their troubled, distorted mind/irrational disordered thinking etc.

IMO, unless deemed legally insane which is rare (most are not an Andrea Yates for example), majority of these perpetrators/killers know right from wrong (BK does imo) as evidenced by the steps they take to try and cover their tracks but alas time and time again, we see them make dumb mistakes due to their extreme arrogance thinking they are smarter than everyone including LE and think they’ll never get caught which in most cases leads to their eventual downfall, and as you astutely point out happens alot faster these days due to the digitized world we live in getting evil cold blooded murderers off the streets quicker which benefits society and helps keep us all safe.

Sorry, not sorry BK.

IMHOO

ETA-paragraph spacing

 

[Gemmie]

Assuming they're his.

Some people can't resist.

JMO

Interesting. Trophy, perhaps for his pat on the back selfie? I've been wondering for a while now if he took any trophies.

 

[Baby baby Jane]

At a recent hearing AT argued that the person was able to give LE information that was specific enough that they knew exactly what to ask Amazon for. Since the warrant has a specific date range, I believe that LE knew for certain that BK bought the knife on 3/30/2022. JMO.

I don't think it would be a stretch to think that his sister suspected him before his arrival back in PA and his behavior only further suspisions. If she or anyone else in the family remembered BK purchasing a similar knife, they knew what car he drove, what area he went to school in.....it's not hard to imagine that they found said record of transaction. JMO

MOO.

And any shop selling those knives, even sellers thru Amazon … would likely check their records to see if they sold to him. It’s just what you would do … from curiosity. imo.