4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #103

[Megnut]

DM said in her interviews that she heard KG run down the stairs and heard KG say someone was there. I kind of wonder it was XK. Maybe she heard all the noise upstairs and went up there to check it out. And then ran down the stairs yelling that someone was there.
JMO

Now that you have said that, I wonder if he was running down the steps to get away, saw XK, she yelled "someone is here." And he chased her to her bedroom.

He runs down the stairs and chases XK to her bedroom.

Also, depending on when exactly DM heard this, if it was at 4am it may well have been KG hearing door dash get dropped on back porch and perhaps an obligatory knock. KG could have popped down the stairs, saw it was only DD ( maybe saw XK heading out get it if DD dropped at back door as Grey Hughes speculates) and run back up to bed in MM's room. We know from the recent release of camera captures and GH's excellent, detailed rendering that BK isn't entering the house until at the earliest 4.08am. Jmo

In his order re Franks, Judge Hippler mentions this as a possibility, noting there was nothing in the defense proffer that specified when exactly this occurred or even that KG was already murdered at the time. I'll look for the page number and post the link a bit later as I have no more time today!

Tying all of these together..

If DM was stirred by noise, we can be certain Murphy was.

We now know "4 victims in bed" was a generalization and the truth is that it was a dynamic situation, with quite a bit of movement.

KG, along with the others victims, came tell us her side of the story. Did Murphy wake her up? Did she say 'there's someone there"? Dud she here DM tell everyone to be quiet? Did she go down the stairs, then run back up? Did she wake MM up, even if only barely? To tell her someone was there? Was KG worried about it? Or was she satisfied? Knew why Murphy was stirring and they could go back to bed? Was it BK she saw or DD? Could she have seen BK at the front of the house (if he circled on foot around to the back? Would she have that vantage from the third floor? From the second? Was she talking to XK who was also awake? They could have met up in the kitchen before BK entered, with XK answering by way of holding up her JITB bag, and KG dashes back upstairs, when BK slips in. (If KG saw someone approaching the door on the first level, it's a college house, she's not going to assume mass murderer IMO, she's more likely to think BF has company.)

XK was listening to TikTok. If she had earbuds in, it might have interfered with her ability to hear sounds in her environment, like a runner who doesn't hear someone come up behind her.

Murphy may have been making noise. KG may have been making noise. Or that noise was BK in process of murder. DM heard it, whatever it was. Did XK? She might not have heard "there's someone there", didn't hear DM stick her head out and ask for quiet, but BK would have.

He would have known there was a complication on the next level. When he cane down the steps, instead of seeing DM he might have seen XK on her way into her bedroom, who might not have seen or heard him. If he overtakes her from behind, "it's OK, I'm here to help", he'd realize EC is there and now he's got two threats.

I think it's important to remember that we stag aren't hearing from KG and XK (the more awake victims) who were hearing (or not hearing) the same things DM was.

For me, it makes it all the more terrifying.

JMO

 

[SteveP]

It's possible, but I think if that happened it was within days of the murders. I say this because his last documented trip to the area late at night, was November, 7. So it would have to be between the 8th and the 12th.

MM being the primary target comes from early social media rumors that appear to be untrue. But that doesn't mean she wasn't the primary target. The evidence seems to show her bedroom was the first one he went to, and he may have been able to see her through her bedroom window on surveillance missions (assuming he parked behind the house).

This kind of leads into a theory I have.

I'm totally open to the idea Kohberger went to the house intent on killing multiple victims, but here's a scenario where he has a primary target and this ends the same way.

The evidence appears to show that he made 23 late night trips to the vicinity of the crime scene. If he parked behind the house, he'd have a view of MM's bedroom; It's possible he fixated on her.

On the night of the murders he enters through the second floor sliding door, and makes his way up to MM's bedroom on the third floor. His plan immediately goes awry when he discovers she's not alone in bed. At this point he kills both victims, as he can't leave a survivor.

Minutes prior to this, Xana's DoorDash was delivered. It's possible she was in her bedroom or up and about, and saw or heard BK as he came back down. At this point he has to kill Xana and Ethan, for the same reason he killed KG.

These murders do not go according to plan, as all indications are that Xana fought back. It's noisy, and the dog starts barking. He's spooked, and worried police might be on the way, which is why instead of killing DM (who he likely saw), he walks past her, speeding away minutes later (after stripping off gloves and coveralls).

I too believe that BK may have become fixated on MM. All of you that have seen many of my posts probably know that I have always felt that MM was the main target, and still do. One thing that has often occurred to me, and I have never mentioned it, is a thought that, not only was he surprised to find KG when he slipped into MM's bedroom that night, but he may have been enraged to find her in MM's bed. In his twisted mind, is it possible that, finding the two of them sharing a bed, he was infuriated at the thought that perhaps there was something sexual going on between them? We have heard from KG's father that her wounds were worse that those of the others. That may or may not be true, but if it is, could it not only have been that, in addition to being because KG had at least a few moments to fight back, it seems, but could it have been, perhaps, BK was taking his rage out on her as well.

Another thought about how XK may have first encountered BK. We know, from pics, that the JITB bag was at the sink in the kitchen. It is possible that BK and XK first locked eyes when she was either returning the bag to the kitchen, from her room, or going to the kitchen to retrieve it? JMO

 

[Megnut]

I would like to see the movie version of this, to get the visual.

The narrative of four sleeping victims, murdered in bed, is not only far from accurate, I think it's really far from accurate. I think all four victims were more awake than has been reported.

However, a kbar knife steals all advantage. None of the victims had a fighting chance.

I want to understand what happened. What was happening within the home/neighborhood at 3:30, 3:59, 4:04, 4:08, 4:10....

I want to watch the DD delivery, while watching BK and his three-point turns, while watching XK get her food. I think BK was aware of the lights of the DD vehicle, enough to take a better look.

In the house, it's a script from a -- I'm sorry to say -- a slasher movie. Four victims, some of whom were moving about the house, missing BK by minutes. XK, getting her food, maybe eating in her room, BK, slips in. XK perhaps returns to the kitchen, finished. Or hears DM and comes out of her room and listens herself. Was KG talking to MM or to XK? The whole thing is terrifying. KG and Murphy reacting to DD possibly, while BK makes his final approach. DM opening her door, making her presence known. BK coming downstairs, encountering XK instead. Another room with two murders. IMO BK didn't plan well at all, he just "won" because he was armed and his victims weren't. Vicious.

I think DM has been remarkably accurate, in what she remembered, described, even ascribed, what she thought she was hearing before she knew the horror that happened.

I think a deep dive into her recall -- what she heard when she heard it, who she thought was making the noise (talking, whimpering, stairstepping, etc) -- could draw a compelling map for where DD, BK, KG and XK were, and how they missed each other and/or how/where/when they encountered one another.

A lot happened in a really condensed amount of time. Ten minutes, twenty tops, if you start the clock with the DD delivery, benign, but the start of roommates waking up, unaware of the malignancy that invited himself in.

BK might not have entered until 4:10-11... and was on his way out, hot, at 4:17-8.

No real skill, just a formidable weapon and the advantage of ambush.

JMO



JMO

 

[Sachi]

I too believe that BK may have become fixated on MM. All of you that have seen many of my posts probably know that I have always felt that MM was the main target, and still do. One thing that has often occurred to me, and I have never mentioned it, is a thought that, not only was he surprised to find KG when he slipped into MM's bedroom that night, but he may have been enraged to find her in MM's bed. In his twisted mind, is it possible that, finding the two of them sharing a bed, he was infuriated at the thought that perhaps there was something sexual going on between them? We have heard from KG's father that her wounds were worse that those of the others. That may or may not be true, but if it is, could it not only have been that, in addition to being because KG had at least a few moments to fight back, it seems, but could it have been, perhaps, BK was taking his rage out on her as well.

Another thought about how XK may have first encountered BK. We know, from pics, that the JITB bag was at the sink in the kitchen. It is possible that BK and XK first locked eyes when she was either returning the bag to the kitchen, from her room, or going to the kitchen to retrieve it? JMO

Another question. If he was fixated on a certain person, why kill that person in a house full of students with so many moving parts/variables? I have read the theories here that it possibly ties into being an amalgamation of notorious serial killers he was interested in and wanted to emulate possibly "outdo"? and then I think - Such a big knife, so much killings reminiscent of video games - knives as weapon and target with casualties to/from anyone in the path.

Just ideas, no facts.

 

[Boxer]

Po

It seems to me AT just goes for suppression on every blessed thing the prosecution has added to discovery. It'a-what ya got, ok suppress, suppress, suppress motions. I get that's the way Defense goes but "bushy eyebrows" and "murder" being said in court are no-no's? I suppose if that balaclava had a cutout mouth and ear holes too, "big ears" and "thin lips" would also need to be suppressed, if they were sticking out and prominent?. JMO

AT successfully appealed for road rager that murdered a woman by running over her.
He got a new trial. Where he was reconvicted.

I would like to see the movie version of this, to get the visual.

The narrative of four sleeping victims, murdered in bed, is not only far from accurate, I think it's really far from accurate. I think all four victims were more awake than has been reported.

However, a kbar knife steals all advantage. None of the victims had a fighting chance.

I want to understand what happened. What was happening within the home/neighborhood at 3:30, 3:59, 4:04, 4:08, 4:10....

I want to watch the DD delivery, while watching BK and his three-point turns, while watching XK get her food. I think BK was aware of the lights of the DD vehicle, enough to take a better look.

In the house, it's a script from a -- I'm sorry to say -- a slasher movie. Four victims, some of whom were moving about the house, missing BK by minutes. XK, getting her food, maybe eating in her room, BK, slips in. XK perhaps returns to the kitchen, finished. Or hears DM and comes out of her room and listens herself. Was KG talking to MM or to XK? The whole thing is terrifying. KG and Murphy reacting to DD possibly, while BK makes his final approach. DM opening her door, making her presence known. BK coming downstairs, encountering XK instead. Another room with two murders. IMO BK didn't plan well at all, he just "won" because he was armed and his victims weren't. Vicious.

I think DM has been remarkably accurate, in what she remembered, described, even ascribed, what she thought she was hearing before she knew the horror that happened.

I think a deep dive into her recall -- what she heard when she heard it, who she thought was making the noise (talking, whimpering, stairstepping, etc) -- could draw a compelling map for where DD, BK, KG and XK were, and how they missed each other and/or how/where/when they encountered one another.

A lot happened in a really condensed amount of time. Ten minutes, twenty tops, if you start the clock with the DD delivery, benign, but the start of roommates waking up, unaware of the malignancy that invited himself in.

BK might not have entered until 4:10-11... and was on his way out, hot, at 4:17-8.

No real skill, just a formidable weapon and the advantage of ambush.

JMO



JMO

The key to killing is commitment.
He had it and used all that he was to bear on the victims, rage, boxing, running endurance, special ops aspirations.

Sword fights in movies take minutes, in reality a weaker opponent lasts seconds, and the loser in a sword fight has a sword and is ready.

 

[Sachi]

Magnet and Boxer, both of your posts- TY. Just impossible to understand, so thanks for your interpretations and thoughts
And Boxer.. all that energy reserved for this event because
Just one 6 miler the day before would have , likely, drained his commitment. Running regulates and rights the mind , endorphins. Dulls the ax to grind

 

[Zinn]

ETA as a new post (missed edit deadline)

I was mistaken about the late night calls. They're not in the PCA, were reported by msm on the basis of the Goncalves interviews; KG and MM dialed Jack D ( KG's ex, sorry!) about 10 times up until 2.52am ( not 3.10am). That's probably why her folks feel that they were asleep by 3am? I think they were asleep or very drowsy by 4am for sure.

A recent doc submitted by the defense also indicates MM called BF at 2:53am.

FWIW, I agree that Kaylee might have been awake at the time DM heard a voice on the stairs. Certain types of evidence could eliminate that possibility but I haven’t seen such evidence disclosed yet, if it exists.

 

[Sachi]

A recent doc submitted by the defense also indicates MM called BF at 2:53am.

FWIW, I agree that Kaylee might have been awake at the time DM heard a voice on the stairs. Certain types of evidence could eliminate that possibility but I haven’t seen such evidence disclosed yet, if it exists.

if KG's dad thinks she was asleep at 3, perhaps her phone never moved again after 3am? Of course this is not fact based evidence. just thoughts

 

[Zinn]

ETA as a new post (missed edit deadline)

I was mistaken about the late night calls. They're not in the PCA, were reported by msm on the basis of the Goncalves interviews; KG and MM dialed Jack D ( KG's ex, sorry!) about 10 times up until 2.52am ( not 3.10am). That's probably why her folks feel that they were asleep by 3am? I think they were asleep or very drowsy by 4am for sure.

Still think it's possible that KG may have awoken at some point around 4 even if not fully and it may have actually been KG's voice DM heard say 'there's someone here'. The problem with the up and down stairs scenario is that per Hippler the defense did not offer any evidence to support their claim that KG had to have already been killed when the stairs thing happened. I'm assuming it isn't clear from DM's interviews when the stairs thing happened. Was it the same time as there's someone here comment?

Per Hippler, I don't think it's known from DM's statements. DM may have heard KG's voice and not XK's, depending on the timing if KG awoke momentarily around 4am.

I’d rather see DM’s actual words, but this doc from the state, responding to the defense, suggests DM heard KG say this on the stairs. The approximate time given could easily apply to either the DD arrival or intruder arrival.

 

[sunshineray]

I’d rather see DM’s actually words, but this doc from the state, responding to the defense, suggests DM heard KG say this on the stairs. The approximate time given could easily apply to either the DD arrival or intruder arrival.

View attachment 575300

Wow is it possible KG had either just let Murphy out or was possibly in the act of making her way down to let him out when she saw BK dressed like a ninja coming up the stairs? I thought it was possibly XK who DM heard saying "Someone here" to EC as she walked back from the kitchen to her bedroom. DM's testimony is going to be so strong and important for the jury.

 

[SteveP]

I keep returning to thoughts of the DD delivery, and how much difference approximately five minutes made in this horror night. Had DD arrived at 4:04, instead of 3:59, as we have been shown, he (assuming it was a male) would have arrived almost simultaneously to BK. Would BK have stayed in his car, awaiting the departure of the visitor? Would he have circled the block yet again? Would he have given up for the night and driven back home, with plans for "next time"? Suppose he had already exited his car and DD driver had come up on him while going to back slider . Would DD driver have been a casualty? Would he have been the first casualty? Suppose the delivery had been a very few minutes later, after BK was already in the house? What might he have heard? What might he have seen? Might he have seen BK fleeing the house? Might he have seen BK removing his balaclava and coveralls? Might he have seen the bloody knife? BK likely, by the time he exited through the slider, had no energy left to attack a wide-awake DD driver? If BK feared the driver had seen him, would he have fled quickly before changing his clothing?

So many things might have happened differently in that ten minute time period, depending on a different arrival of the delivery. I am sure the DD driver has pondered many of these things as well, and I believe that he was close enough to being a potential victim that he may have nightmares still. I would be surprised if he still does late-night DD deliveries. I know that I could not. JMO

 

[Zinn]

if KG's dad thinks she was asleep at 3, perhaps her phone never moved again after 3am? Of course this is not fact based evidence. just thoughts

A phone not moving would not convince me that KG might not have moved around a little without her phone at around 4:00am. For instance, her phone might have been charging at that hour or she might not have routinely taken her phone with her to do something very brief. Would actually be interesting to know if/where her phone was charging as she might have had easier access to relaying a message by voice than by phone if she was in one room and her phone was in another as might have occurred if she didn’t sleep in her own room.

If she was wearing a smartwatch that tracked movement and it was limited to MM’s room, that would convince me. If her phone was in MM’s room consistently after 2:52am and never moved, that would at least indicate to me KG very likely fell asleep in MM’s room rather than moving to MM’s room sometime after 4:00am. If further details of DM’s testimony reveal she heard the voice on the stairs closer to 4:15am, or if XK’s phone indicates she ran upstairs/downstairs around that time, those factors would alter my opinion.

 

[detectivewannab]

Right.thank you for this. Thinking about the day before , what was he doing, where was he. Did he know Kaylee got the auto , did he see that she returned for the weekend via social media, Was he seen anywhere she or Maddy were the day(s) before? Was he caught on camera watching there movement? Just thinking about it.what evidence of preparation , stalking, surveilling the prosecution has including all of the above.

The Grub Truck just creaps me out. They were so innocent.

 

[wendy44]

Wouldn't have been something if KB thought that he could come in and kill MM and leave. Maybe he had hopes that someone else, another roommate, would be blamed for her death.

Personally, I think this is what he was going for--not so much hoping they would be blamed but the terror that would instill in them. He wanted the other roommates to wake up in the morning and find MM and know that someone had been in their house while they slept and killed her without them knowing or even waking up.
JMO

 

[Zinn]

I keep returning to thoughts of the DD delivery, and how much difference approximately five minutes made in this horror night. Had DD arrived at 4:04, instead of 3:59, as we have been shown, he (assuming it was a male) would have arrived almost simultaneously to BK. Would BK have stayed in his car, awaiting the departure of the visitor? Would he have circled the block yet again? Would he have given up for the night and driven back home, with plans for "next time"? Suppose he had already exited his car and DD driver had come up on him while going to back slider . Would DD driver have been a casualty? Would he have been the first casualty? Suppose the delivery had been a very few minutes later, after BK was already in the house? What might he have heard? What might he have seen? Might he have seen BK fleeing the house? Might he have seen BK removing his balaclava and coveralls? Might he have seen the bloody knife? BK likely, by the time he exited through the slider, had no energy left to attack a wide-awake DD driver? If BK feared the driver had seen him, would he have fled quickly before changing his clothing?

So many things might have happened differently in that ten minute time period, depending on a different arrival of the delivery. I am sure the DD driver has pondered many of these things as well, and I believe that he was close enough to being a potential victim that he may have nightmares still. I would be surprised if he still does late-night DD deliveries. I know that I could not. JMO

And if he/she had arrived 10 minutes earlier, that might’ve changed things too. XK might have been asleep behind a locked bedroom door by 4:10am. An intruder approaching and entering might have been more obvious with the house more settled. It’s possible Murphy began stirring at 3:59am in response to DD and hadn’t fully settled down by the time the intruder arrived, leading to an impression of one extended circumstance vs. two very distinct circumstances. JMO.

 

[detectivewannab]

Just watched 48 Hours on Idaho. That ME or whatever you call her gave KG's parents alot of information before the gag order took place.

I feel the parents should know the in formation before the public. Who wants to find out details of their child's murder from TV.

 

[detectivewannab]

I too believe that BK may have become fixated on MM. All of you that have seen many of my posts probably know that I have always felt that MM was the main target, and still do. One thing that has often occurred to me, and I have never mentioned it, is a thought that, not only was he surprised to find KG when he slipped into MM's bedroom that night, but he may have been enraged to find her in MM's bed. In his twisted mind, is it possible that, finding the two of them sharing a bed, he was infuriated at the thought that perhaps there was something sexual going on between them? We have heard from KG's father that her wounds were worse that those of the others. That may or may not be true, but if it is, could it not only have been that, in addition to being because KG had at least a few moments to fight back, it seems, but could it have been, perhaps, BK was taking his rage out on her as well.

Another thought about how XK may have first encountered BK. We know, from pics, that the JITB bag was at the sink in the kitchen. It is possible that BK and XK first locked eyes when she was either returning the bag to the kitchen, from her room, or going to the kitchen to retrieve it? JMO

Anyone that has had high school/college girls they sleep together. This is why this case hauts me. My daughter lived in a house just like this. It's like the perfect storm of innocents and evil.

 

[Sachi]

A phone not moving would not convince me that KG might not have moved around a little without her phone at around 4:00am. For instance, her phone might have been charging at that hour or she might not have routinely taken her phone with her to do something very brief. Would actually be interesting to know if/where her phone was charging as she might have had easier access to relaying a message by voice than by phone if she was in one room and her phone was in another as might have occurred if she didn’t sleep in her own room.

If she was wearing a smartwatch that tracked movement and it was limited to MM’s room, that would convince me. If her phone was in MM’s room consistently after 2:52am and never moved, that would at least indicate to me KG very likely fell asleep in MM’s room rather than moving to MM’s room sometime after 4:00am. If further details of DM’s testimony reveal she heard the voice on the stairs closer to 4:15am, or if XK’s phone indicates she ran upstairs/downstairs around that time, those factors would alter my opinion.

right. I read some prior posts about not seeing any a smart watches on any of the victims in available photos. I wonder what made KG's dad say that they believe KG was asleep at 3am and why. Trial reveal of course.

 

[SteveP]

Anyone that has had high school/college girls they sleep together. This is why this case hauts me. My daughter lived in a house just like this. It's like the perfect storm of innocents and evil.

Exactly. Any parent of a girl knows that happens, and is perfectly normal, but BK is not a parent, and I don't know that he was ever close to his sisters, and he didn't seem to have many friends at all, and especially not girls. Judging from a supposed comment to a date that she had good "birthing hips", I would guess he knows very little about females. JMO

 

[iamshadow21]

Exactly. Any parent of a girl knows that happens, but BK is not a parent, and I don't know that he was close to his sisters, and he didn't seem to have many friends at all, and especially not girls. JMO

I think it's kind of beside the point.

He bought his murder gear months in advance. He stalked the house, visiting the area time and time again. He entered at 4am with a knife in the dark. It was always about killing. No need to try and create a motive of homophobic rage.

It's also very possible that with the dark, he didn't even know a second girl was in the bed until after he started stabbing the first.

MOO