4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #103

[Warwick7]

and yet your link states that the defense wants the DNA from beneath Madison's fingernails to be EXCLUDED from trial. They are concerned that this DNA, which does not belong to BK, might confuse jurors who might mistakenly think it belongs to him.

One would think if the defense is looking to advance an alternate suspect theory they would be begging to make sure that DNA was IN and not OUT at trial, yes? As a way to suggest jurors should discount the sheath DNA because - look, there was other DNA on her person, beneath her nails.

And then the state would argue that that DNA mixture could have ended up there a million normal logical non murdery ways. But at least the jury would hear it and who knows maybe buy that it somehow relates to the murders.

But circling back to my point, the defense wants it out, so is it your theory that the mixed DNA from beneath Mogen's nails contains DNA from the "real" killer?


Idaho college murders update: 3-person mixture of unknown DNA found under fingernails of Madison Mogen, filing shows | 6abc.com

Bam! Even the defense says the nails are irrelevant.

 

[katydid23]

As always, balancing pros and cons.

On the one hand it is a shaky ground because most “weird” killers might have these traits. Dahmer, Keys, our school shooters. Even Oswald, MOO.
Not only this, strange interests and behaviors, like…interest in bodies? So it might be in “the murder suits him” area.

On the other hand, such people might indeed be manipulated by a group.

A tendency to make off-color jokes might be misunderstood by others. Or, OCD tendencies that bothered BK’s family when he got back…but could his family share the same traits and hence, lack the capacity to interpret the behavior in the correct way?

So I would have trouble knowing what to do with it. Could BK, a loner, probably frustrated but having no clue how to approach people, take it on the world, especially on women? For sure.

Could he be a “too convenient” scapegoat? Yes, he could.

A very tough case and a tough line of defense. I would try the angle of being non-local as potentially predisposing to “un-preferential treatment”. Why did they dig through heaven and hell to identify his DNA and yet neglected other male DNAs found in the house that, place-wise, could have had more relevance?

" Why did they dig through heaven and hell to identify his DNA and yet neglected other male DNAs found in the house that, place-wise, could have had more relevance?"

More relevance? What found DNA has more relevance than the DNA found on the knife sheath, left underneath a stabbed victim?

That DNA was most probably left by the killer. I'm sure the girls didn't lay down that night on top of a knife sheath randomly laying there. IMO It was left behind by the perpetrator, IMO.

Anyone could have touched the stairway bannister, at any time. There is nothing connecting it to the actual crimes.

 

[LinasK]

jmo but I dont think scratching would actually be the only way to get dna under the nails. i really dont like going into details so a discretionary warning is attached to what im about to write. If an individual is prone on a bed with someone stabbing them thier is a chance the victim will just instinctively try to grab onto whatever is stabbing them most likely an arm. the shock of feeling the knife will make them do that almost unconsciously. just a natural inbuilt defence. so the victim grabs at whatever is causing the pain and will do so tightly and in doing so will get the dna under the nails. it makes sense to me that a victim will try to get whatever is causing the pain off of them and will attempt to do so by grabbing onto it and trying to push it away. sorry for the grim reading.

Not grim at all. I was pushed into a fight in 5th grade by bullies who wanted to see this girl beat me up. My only defense was to grab her elbows and dig in my nails until I drew blood because I don't know how to or want to punch people. It worked and she didn't beat me up.

 

[Charlot123]

BBM
As I said earlier...
I can see it now at the Corner bar, "Man I've got an itch on my back. Can someone get it for me, I can't even reach it!" Madie says "Here I'll help." Next thing you know she has someone's skin under her nails.
It was inconclusive.
It is a nothing burger.

I think it is closer to the body than a knife sheath.

We leave stuff behind. My son once left an iPhone at Burger King. Imagine it being found somewhere, and no other DNA indicating his presence in that house.

How much I lost I can't tell you. I never return back to search unless it is really expensive.

Someone stole a portable safe from my other kid in U-district. Documents, watch. Some family heirloom. I assume they just sold it but who knows?

Moreover, we sell stuff, too on ebay. A collection of katanas.

So I can imagine how a man who likes knives can leave a sheath somewhere.

I think DNA from old cases, from body secretions, is telling. DNA on stuff nowadays might be questionable.

As usual, MOO. And, we may never get the details of what police really knows.

 

[Sweeper2000]

Not grim at all. I was pushed into a fight in 5th grade by bullies who wanted to see this girl beat me up. My only defense was to grab her elbows and dig in my nails until I drew blood because I don't know or want to punch people. It worked and she didn't beat me up.

one of the most normal things in a physical altercation is to grab, it just happens. more normal than striking.

 

[katydid23]

...snipped for space...

SR
c.Law Enforcement also requested a tower dump. consisting of AT&T Timing Advance data. This request involved AT&T providing all of the connections between two specific cell sites in Moscow during a two-hour period. The data produced was AT&T Timing Advance data. In all. there were over 3800 AT&T mobile phones identified in the Timing Advance tower dump data

When LE asked for this tower dump including TAD (within 7 day retention period NOV), LE was able to get them, In 2022.
BKs phone was not in this two hour, two tower data dump.

I wouldn't expect that BK's cell would show up in the tower dump---he had it powered down. It was either off, or on airplane mode or ?

I don't think this means that BK was not present. IMO

 

[Sweeper2000]

Why did they dig through heaven and hell to identify his DNA and yet neglected other male DNAs found in the house that, place-wise, could have had more relevance?

More relevance? What found DNA has more relevance than the DNA found on the knife sheath, left underneath a stabbed victim?

That DNA was most probably left by the killer. I'm sure the girls didn't lay down that night on top of a knife sheath randomly laying there. IMO It was left behind by the perpetrator, IMO.

Anyone could have touched the stairway bannister, at any time. There is nothing connecting it to the actual crimes.

there is not a chance in hell that it doesnt belong to bk. the only other potential is thata friend came round and left it on her bed but this same friend would have owned up to it. "yeh i found it whilst walking on my way to theirs and brought it round to show people" but then there is not a chance they would have left it on the bed. its absurd to not see significance in it being there. its as good as hair of bk being there imo.

 

[LinasK]

one of the most normal things in a physical altercation is to grab, it just happens. more normal than striking.

Yup! That's my point. My grabbing her elbows immobilized her from punching me. And because I dug my nails in so hard, I'm quite sure her DNA was under my fingernails, but noone knew about DNA back in 1970.

 

[Warwick7]

I think it is closer to the body than a knife sheath.

We leave stuff behind. My son once left an iPhone at Burger King. Imagine it being found somewhere, and no other DNA indicating his presence in that house.

How much I lost I can't tell you. I never return back to search unless it is really expensive.

Someone stole a portable safe from my other kid in U-district. Documents, watch. Some family heirloom. I assume they just sold it but who knows?

Moreover, we sell stuff, too on ebay. A collection of katanas.

So I can imagine how a man who likes knives can leave a sheath somewhere.

I think DNA from old cases, from body secretions, is telling. DNA on stuff nowadays might be questionable.

As usual, MOO. And, we may never get the details of what police really knows.

BBM
In a room where he doesn't belong?!
In a room where two people were violently mudered?!

 

[katydid23]

I think it is closer to the body than a knife sheath.

How could it be 'closer' to the body? The sheath was actually TOUCHING the body. You can't get closer than that.

We leave stuff behind. My son once left an iPhone at Burger King. Imagine it being found somewhere, and no other DNA indicating his presence in that house.

But your son was actually in that Burger King, right? He left his phone there.

Now if your son's phone was later found underneath a dead body, then he would be a prime suspect.

But it would take MORE than just the phone. They'd investigate your son and look at his past, his whereabouts during the crime, what kind of car he drove, if he had the 'means, motive and opportunity', etc

Too bad for BK that all the other circumstantial evidence corroborates the suspicion.

How much I lost I can't tell you. I never return back to search unless it is really expensive.

Someone stole a portable safe from my other kid in U-district. Documents, watch. Some family heirloom. I assume they just sold it but who knows?

Moreover, we sell stuff, too on ebay. A collection of katanas.

So I can imagine how a man who likes knives can leave a sheath somewhere.

Pretty unlucky if BK just happened to leave a sheath somewhere, and it ended up at the crime scene under a dead body. Especially when there are records showing he bought a black mask and a black coverall, just like the ones worn by the killer. And he drove a white Elantra with no front plate, just like the one circling the crime scene. And he wrote a college paper describing how he would protect his DNA and fingerprints from tainting a crime scene---in which he described those very same masks, overalls, etc.

I think DNA from old cases, from body secretions, is telling. DNA on stuff nowadays might be questionable.

As usual, MOO. And, we may never get the details of what police really knows.

 

[Charlot123]

BBM
In a room where he doesn't belong?!
In a room where two people were violently mudered?!

But that’s what I say. In the party house there are tons of DNAs. People living in the vicinity are not always the most upstanding citizens. Some were arrested in WA and then case closed, another big question but probably to my state, why it was closed, Surely involves lots of work, pois, maybe suspects. The police has to check everyone’s alibi. Leaving a sheath in that room is the great way to direct the investigation.

And imagine it were not a knife, but an iPhone? Don’t you think the conclusion would have been the same? “A phone with a person’s DNA, probably lost it and didn’t notice, he didn’t belong in that house.”

Anyhow - you explain that the source of the other DNA could have been scratched. Did they look at his scratches after the murder? No, and they were slow with that DNA. But, if the victim could have scratched someone in a bar, someone could have placed that sheath in the room.

 

[LinasK]

But that’s what I say. In the party house there are tons of DNAs. People living in the vicinity are not always the most upstanding citizens. Some were arrested in WA and then case closed, another big question but probably to my state, why it was closed, Surely involves lots of work, pois, maybe suspects. The police has to check everyone’s alibi. Leaving a sheath in that room is the great way to direct the investigation.

And imagine it were not a knife, but an iPhone? Don’t you think the conclusion would have been the same? “A phone with a person’s DNA, probably lost it and didn’t notice, he didn’t belong in that house.”

Anyhow - you explain that the source of the other DNA could have been scratched. Did they look at his scratches after the murder? No, and they were slow with that DNA. But, if the victim could have scratched someone in a bar, someone could have placed that sheath in the room.

Under murder victims, and only BK's DNA is on the sheath??? Highly unlikely. It doesn't matter if it was his phone OR a sheath to a murder weapon, but a murder weapon carries even more weight legally than a phone IMO.

 

[Boxer]

Focusing on this:

Could he be a “too convenient” scapegoat? Yes, he could.

A very tough case and a tough line of defense. I would try the angle of being non-local as potentially predisposing to “un-preferential treatment”. Why did they dig through heaven and hell to identify his DNA and yet neglected other male DNAs found in the house that, place-wise, could have had more relevance?

You have a sheath found at the scene of a stabbing, and no foreign blood found in the immediate crime scenes (bedrooms). That sheath absolutely becomes your best piece of evidence, and the most probable DNA link to the killer. The FBI had no way of knowing who that DNA belonged to before they completed the family tree. Upon receiving that name, law enforcement discovered that absolutely everything fit, from the white Hyundai, to the movements of that car, to the phone being powered down, etc.

If they believed for a second that other DNA was relevant, they would have chased it as hard as they chased the sheath DNA. We still don't know the extent of their investigation into that DNA; all we have is defense claims. What we do know, is that the defense recently reveled in a filing that they now know exactly what was done with that DNA.

You have a blood spot on a railing in an area of the house the killer did not go. It has no corresponding blood, like it should if the killer cut himself. You have a glove outside that has the same issue, and if it had a cut in it the defense absolutely would have mentioned this in their Frank's efforts.

I'm sure the prosecution has ensured this angle will be closed to the defense; we see that all the time come trial.

I dont think he is convenient.
How did the killer get BKs knife sheath? How did the killer get a 2015 White Elantra with no front plate to drive around in? How did the killer turn off BKs phone?

 

[Warwick7]

I think it is closer to the body than a knife sheath.

We leave stuff behind. My son once left an iPhone at Burger King. Imagine it being found somewhere, and no other DNA indicating his presence in that house.

How much I lost I can't tell you. I never return back to search unless it is really expensive.

Someone stole a portable safe from my other kid in U-district. Documents, watch. Some family heirloom. I assume they just sold it but who knows?

Moreover, we sell stuff, too on ebay. A collection of katanas.

So I can imagine how a man who likes knives can leave a sheath somewhere.

I think DNA from old cases, from body secretions, is telling. DNA on stuff nowadays might be questionable.

As usual, MOO. And, we may never get the details of what police really knows.

BBM
In a room where he doesn't belong?!
In a room where two people were violently mudered?

But that’s what I say. In the party house there are tons of DNAs. People living in the vicinity are not always the most upstanding citizens. Some were arrested in WA and then case closed, another big question but probably to my state, why it was closed, Surely involves lots of work, pois, maybe suspects. The police has to check everyone’s alibi. Leaving a sheath in that room is the great way to direct the investigation.

And imagine it were not a knife, but an iPhone? Don’t you think the conclusion would have been the same? “A phone with a person’s DNA, probably lost it and didn’t notice, he didn’t belong in that house.”

Anyhow - you explain that the source of the other DNA could have been scratched. Did they look at his scratches after the murder? No, and they were slow with that DNA. But, if the victim could have scratched someone in a bar, someone could have placed that sheath in the room.

BBM
No.
An iphone doesn't have the capability to slice up, stab, and slaughter a human.

 

[Betty P]

BBM
In a room where he doesn't belong?!
In a room where two people were violently mudered?!

Also in a murder scene in a house where none of the occupants knew him, where he had never visited, where he denied ever visiting? How did his DNA get there?

 

[stormymama]

M00 That could be easy to tell. GH has mapped out every second where BK drove. Thank God for ring cameras! Anyway, Just by googling DD, they tell us they notifiy you when the food is delivered by a text. Now you have time stamps.

It was delivered at 3:59am and at 4:03 BK was till driving around being pegged by ring cameras.

Oh, I certainly know Door Dash Guy wasn’t BK. I just wonder if that is who Xana thought it was, like he came “back” for them.

 

[LinasK]

I think it is closer to the body than a knife sheath.

We leave stuff behind. My son once left an iPhone at Burger King. Imagine it being found somewhere, and no other DNA indicating his presence in that house.

How much I lost I can't tell you. I never return back to search unless it is really expensive.

Someone stole a portable safe from my other kid in U-district. Documents, watch. Some family heirloom. I assume they just sold it but who knows?

Moreover, we sell stuff, too on ebay. A collection of katanas.

So I can imagine how a man who likes knives can leave a sheath somewhere.

I think DNA from old cases, from body secretions, is telling. DNA on stuff nowadays might be questionable.

As usual, MOO. And, we may never get the details of what police really knows.

Matthew Mueller DID leave his phone behind at a crime scene and it helped catch and convict him.

 

[Boxer]

Also in a murder scene in a house where none of the occupants knew him, where he had never visited, where he denied ever visiting? How did his DNA get there?

He brought there on the knife sheath to his Kabar.

 

[Boxer]

Oh, I certainly know Door Dash Guy wasn’t BK. I just wonder if that is who Xana thought it was, like he came “back” for them.

Yes. She would expect a rational and, for their situation, normal reason for someone to be around.

 

[Warwick7]

Also in a murder scene in a house where none of the occupants knew him, where he had never visited, where he denied ever visiting? How did his DNA get there?

Bam! Exactly!