4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #104

[Megnut]

You know what else needs fine motor dexterity? Or crude. Snapping and unsnapping the snap on a brand new, unbroken-in hard KBar sheath.

All together now,

Oh, snap.

 jmo

 

[Warwick7]

It is not possible for cellphone companies to tell if a phone is turned off or if the battery is dead or if the phone is out of range of cell towers. So, I don't believe that the State knows if or can prove that BK turned his phone off. NELOS is strictly information from cell towers about cell phone connectivity. That information will not tell LE anything to definitively prove the state of BK's phone. What we have here is a lack of evidence, unfortunately. JMO.

BBM
In SG's latest interview he stated that when BK turned his phone off it was at 90%. The interview is up thread. And if SG knows this how much more does LE know.

 

[Arkay]

Yeah, there's just no way that's true, just like I don't believe there is a social media connection.

We would know about this stuff by now, and both parties have said there is no connection like the latter.

Yes, thinking it over now, I can’t see how this would be true.
It would be such indisputable proof that BK had been in the house, almost as irrefutable as his DNA on the sheath, that I think we would have heard about it.

Unless the prosecution is holding this info until trial——like Murdaugh being at the dog pen with his wife and son when he’d said he’d been asleep on the couch—-unless it is a “gotcha” like that, my guess is we’d have heard about this, just as we heard about his DNA.

Wishful thinking. I’d love it to be true, just because that’s firing squad eligible.

IMO

 

[LetsSolvIt]

Agree. I thought LE had said the IDs were not victim IDs at some point but I cannot find any MSM story saying that. After searching, I can say that Jennifer Coffindaffer ex-FBI agent from NewsNation appears to have been the only one saying the IDs were connected to the crime. Any story saying that referenced her claim. And she and NewsNation have certainly said false things in other cases (e.g., Gabby Petito, Riley Strain)
MOO

Since this “clue” doesn’t seem to have taken root (I can find nothing recent except Coffindaffer’s brief reference two days ago), I am thinking it must not have much merit, or been an erroneous extrapolation of the PA home search warrant.

Sorry to have gotten so excited!

 

[arielilane]

State of Idaho v. Bryan C. Kohberger​

Ada County CR01-24-31665

Current Case Summary

State of Idaho v. Bryan C. Kohberger



4/10/2025

• NewOrder Sealing Exhibit D
• NewOrder Sealing Defendants Exhibit 4

4/8/2025

• Stipulated Motion to Seal Defendants Exhibit 4
• Notice of Filing Exhibit D1
• Defendants Motion to Seal Exhibit D
• Defendants 4th Supplemental Response to Discovery

 

[LetsSolvIt]

Yeah, there's just no way that's true, just like I don't believe there is a social media connection.

We would know about this stuff by now, and both parties have said there is no connection like the latter.

@MassGuy, Thank you for this. It’s likely I missed posts that closed these issues.

 

[Warwick7]

It is not possible for cellphone companies to tell if a phone is turned off or if the battery is dead or if the phone is out of range of cell towers. So, I don't believe that the State knows if or can prove that BK turned his phone off. NELOS is strictly information from cell towers about cell phone connectivity. That information will not tell LE anything to definitively prove the state of BK's phone. What we have here is a lack of evidence, unfortunately. JMO.

BBM

Yes it can.

Case in point: While Tammy Moorer's text messages and social media posts accounted for her whereabouts on the night Heather Elvis went missing, there was a gap in activity, phone turned off that lined up with Heather Elvis' disappearance. This was brought at trial to be extremely damaging to Tammy Moore. This along with other circumstantial evidence nailed Tammy Moore.

 

[LetsSolvIt]

"10 Curls" or "ID Cards"???

@LetsSolvIt
FWIW
IIRC, waaay back when lists of items seized pursuant to S-Wrnts were initially released to the media (sorry, no link), at least one list was HANDWRITTEN and some items were open to differing interpretations. A lot of discussion here on WS ensued.

Some posters read the entry as "10 Curls" and others read it as "ID Cards."

Then posts speculated about whose ID cards.
BK's, maybe then-current or stale? Or some deceased victims in 1122 King? Or victims elsewhere?

I do not recall if any motions or other doc's filed have provided further info on this.
Anyone?

Not speaking to significance or admissibility of items found in BK's vehicle or in his parents' home.
Caveat: going by memory on this, without going to links in OP.

@al66pine, Thank you. So much to keep track of and much time has passed. I clearly missed these points when discussed.

 

[Warwick7]

If this turns out to be accurate, then IMO it’s case closed.

Big “if,” though. I’m not a Coffindaffer fan.

I am NOT a Coffindaffer fan by any means. But I do remember this being posted way back and it ensued pages and pages of discussion.

I agree, if this turns out to be accurate it's case closed.

 

[Balthazar]

So here goes confused Warwick again...

How can it be 7 years? Prosecution has a signed something or other legally stating that: with a warrant LE can have TAR, but they had to have contacted them around 11-13-22 because after 7 days that information disappears.

This link can not be smarter or more up to date than the prosecution. If it was "7 years" then LE would have that info. As it stands AT&T says they can't give it.

I have not seen an affidavit from Ballance saying he couldn't get BK's TAR records, have you?

Now this is interesting. This slightly more recent document from AT&T says the retention policy is no more than 13 months. However, the AT&T VP is specifically writing the FCC about AT&T Mobility and Cricket Wireless on Aug 3, 2022:

"Our RIM Policy establishes a retention period of no more than 13 months for information that identifies the current or past location of a specific individual’s device and five years for historical call detail records, which include cell site location information." Page 4

https://docs.fcc.gov/public/attachments/DOC-386581A1.pdf

The document showing 7 years was from 2019 and written by the FBI CAST Team preceding the above document by about 3 years. So... in that time AT&T may have changed their retention policy to 13 months. But, apparently in November 2022, it would still have been at least 13 months.

And then I found this very interesting letter:

https://www.wyden.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/wyden_hemisphere_surveillance_letter_112023.pdf

and this:

Hemisphere Project: DEA Accesses AT&T Phone Records - Security Current

The New York Times reported on a secret joint Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA)-AT&T program called “Hemisphere” which allowed the drug agency access to billions of telephone records. The fact that…

securitycurrent.com

Hemisphere surveillance data is said to go back as much as 2 decades and includes cellular location data.

All JMO.

 

[Warwick7]

.

 

[mrjitty]

So here goes confused Warwick again...

How can it be 7 years? Prosecution has a signed something or other legally stating that: with a warrant LE can have TAR, but they had to have contacted them around 11-13-22 because after 7 days that information disappears.

This link can not be smarter or more up to date than the prosecution. If it was "7 years" then LE would have that info. As it stands AT&T says they can't give it.

IIRC the TAR records have a short retention because it’s a vast amount of data that is mostly used to make the network more efficient by being about to split up every second of network resource. There is no real reason for the networks to retain the vast amount of source data. As you might recall in the morphew case the network was able to advise how far away the victims phone was from the tower in a timely missing persons inquiry.

IMO

 

[Warwick7]

I have not seen an affidavit from Ballance saying he couldn't get BK's TAR records, have you?

Now this is interesting. This slightly more recent document from AT&T says the retention policy is no more than 13 months. However, the AT&T VP is specifically writing the FCC about AT&T Mobility and Cricket Wireless on Aug 3, 2022:

"Our RIM Policy establishes a retention period of no more than 13 months for information that identifies the current or past location of a specific individual’s device and five years for historical call detail records, which include cell site location information." Page 4

https://docs.fcc.gov/public/attachments/DOC-386581A1.pdf

The document showing 7 years was from 2019 and written by the FBI CAST Team preceding the above document by about 3 years. So... in that time AT&T may have changed their retention policy to 13 months. But, apparently in November 2022, it would still have been at least 13 months.

And then I found this very interesting letter:

https://www.wyden.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/wyden_hemisphere_surveillance_letter_112023.pdf

and this:

Hemisphere Project: DEA Accesses AT&T Phone Records - Security Current

The New York Times reported on a secret joint Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA)-AT&T program called “Hemisphere” which allowed the drug agency access to billions of telephone records. The fact that…

securitycurrent.com

Hemisphere surveillance data is said to go back as much as 2 decades and includes cellular location data.

All JMO.

BBM
No.

What I do know is this:

"You've made some serious accusations against the state of hiding evidence, yet you've provided no factual basis, zero, that this evidence existed...Where is the evidence that Mr. Kohberger's timing advance records available from AT&T were available in December?..His affidavit is quite extensive, and he seems to ignore that issue (7 day retention period)."

A visibly angry Judge Hippler talked about how serious these accusations are, and how he had previously warned the parties of "theatrics." He said "this is the sort of thing that could get people disbarred, and Sy Ray ignored the reasonable answer from the prosecution (7 day retention period)."

 

[arielilane]

Re my post above:
4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #104
—————

Coffindaffer: ID from Idaho killings found in glove inside box​

. . . During an appearance on “NewsNation Prime” Sunday evening [9 April 2023], former FBI agent and NewsNation contributor Jennifer Coffindaffer said the ID was found concealed in a glove inside of a box.

“We know the ID was supposedly found in a box in the house inside a glove at his parents’ home, which is very interesting because it would seem as if he was keeping it a secret or hiding the IDs that were listed,” Coffindaffer said. . . .

https://www.newsnationnow.com/crime/idaho-college-killings/coffindaffer-id-from-idaho-killings-found-in-glove-inside-box/

—————

Was there ever any more said about finding an ID?

Thanks for posting this is interesting news, Ive not heard before. It's kind of vague info, though.
Does it belong to one of the ID college victims?
It's not related to XK's driver's license as noted below found at the crime scene.

moo



OFC Smith directed me down the hallway to the west bedroom on the second floor, which later l learned

(through Xana’s driver's license and other personal belongings found in the room) was Xena

Kenodle's, hereafter “Kernodle” room.

Unsealed warrants reveal items seized from Pa. home of University of Idaho murders suspect

Unsealed court documents reveal what authorities seized from the home of Bryan Kohberger, the man suspected of murdering four University of Idaho students.

lawandcrime.com

You can read the warrants, at length, here, here, and here.

https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/23693999/mcsharpmonroecountypagov_20230301_075417.pdf

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I could be wrong, but my impression was that the state wasn't arguing that he doesn't have ASD, they were arguing that there's no evidence he has a developmental disorder/fine motor skill issue that would prevent him from being physically capable of committing the murders. I'll try to transcribe some of that portion of the hearing.

I can't find it now, but there was some discussion about BK being observed as being "manipulative". I think this was actually about manipulatives--he was able to manipulate or handle objects without dexterity issues. The state believes the ASD diagnosis is irrelevant and immaterial since the jury is not supposed to consider courtroom demeanor--their primary objection here is the idea that he's physically incapable of the murders.
JMO

I also think the manipulating was re manual dexterity. Shoe laces. Writing 5 upside down when he was an infant. Knives...

 

[Boxer]

Yes, we see BK now. I don't think one can claim everyone who is going to serve as a juror is watching now though. Most people are probably going about their lives and not paying too much attention at this point

It would be nice to think jurors only attend to courtroom evidence when rendering a decision, not to demeanor, not to pre-trial coverage, not to news coverage during the trial, not to the attorneys' perceived "personalities," not to whether the defendant testifies...But that seems quite unrealistic. We know of trials where it's come out after-the-fact other information was discussed during deliberations. And research on decision-making suggests humans cannot compartmentalize as well as some people seem to think. We also know if during a trial it comes to light a juror has, ssy, sought out outside information, at the very least that juror will be dismissed. If it was so easy for people to ignore information, why not tell that juror to ignore what he learned? And if it had been shared with other jurors, tell them to ignore it? That's not what happens though. If the info has been shared widely, more likely there would be a mistrial.
MOO

Should all defendant be in a one way box? That is the only solution I see as every defendant is in court woth their attorney in person.

Defendants have the right to face their accusers, do the victims (via the state prosecution) not hove the right to face the charged defendant?

 

[Boxer]

I also think the manipulating was re manual dexterity. Shoe laces. Writing 5 upside down when he was an infant. Knives...

Yes, he botched a fish cleaning job, and that requires a very high level dexterity, but IIRC it was his customer interactions, refusing to cut the fish the way they wanted, that did him in, not making bad cuts.

 

[Boxer]

"10 Curls" or "ID Cards"???

@LetsSolvIt
FWIW
IIRC, waaay back when lists of items seized pursuant to S-Wrnts were initially released to the media (sorry, no link), at least one list was HANDWRITTEN and some items were open to differing interpretations. A lot of discussion here on WS ensued.

Some posters read the entry as "10 Curls" and others read it as "ID Cards."

Then posts speculated about whose ID cards.
BK's, maybe then-current or stale? Or some deceased victims in 1122 King? Or victims elsewhere?

I do not recall if any motions or other doc's filed have provided further info on this.
Anyone?

Not speaking to significance or admissibility of items found in BK's vehicle or in his parents' home.
Caveat: going by memory on this, without going to links in OP.

Weird. IDs of people he stalked?

 

[LetsSolvIt]

Thanks for posting this is interesting news, Ive not heard before. It's kind of vague info, though.
Does it belong to one of the ID college victims?
<… snipped to shorten …>

This seems to be a closed issue — sounds like it was discussed at length early on but lost credibility. Not sure where I was during all that — I think I got grossed out with this case for awhile — apologies for bringing it up.

 

[arielilane]

This seems to be a closed issue — sounds like it was discussed at length early on but lost credibility. Not sure where I was during all that — I think I got grossed out with this case for awhile — apologies for bringing it up.

No need to apologize, I missed out on that discussion too. My understanding is thats why we are here is to have a discussion, but thats okay, thank you for responding.

Though, it will be interesting to see if anything comes out about an ID at a later time. moo