4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #105

[SteveP]

I've seen a few people here saying that MM was probably his main target. Has that been established? What's the reasoning? I admit i haven't read through all of the many threads of this case because it's overwhelming, but I've been wondering about this.

Nothing has been established as to who, if anyone specifically, was the main target of BK. It does seem that most who think someone was targeted believe that it was either MM or KG, and that XK and EC were just in the wrong place at the wrong time. My personal belief has almost always been that MM was the target, but it is just a feeling I have, at least partly based on the fact that she looked like the typical, popular, pretty blonde girl, the type who he knew he could never get. Also, although there has been no reported connection between BK and any of the victims, actually has been reported that there was none, it has been conjectured, and denied, but I still would not rule out that BK had initially spotted MM at the restaurant she worked at, or perhaps noticed her during one of his apparent many late night trips to the WinCo grocery store mere minutes from their home, followed her home, and developed a fixation on her. Also, if he was not initially fixated on her, but the house, MM's room was the very easiest to spy into if he parked around behind the house. He could have developed a fixation on her while perving from his parked car. JMO

 

[Nila Aella]

RBBM..

How about just "DNA". No need to use "transfer" or "touch" or "contact" or "trace"

For example, "There was DNA on the knife sheath. This DNA was from a single-source and male that matched the defendant 1 in octillions." How's that?

Single-source = one source
1 in octillions = one out of everybody on the planet and other planets too.

??

There is a need.
To differentiate the blood DNA found at the crime scene and the touch/contact/trace DNA. There is also blood DNA on the back of the knife sheath.

As I posted before.
This statistic is a LR.
Judge/State/D all agree that comparing a LR to the world population is inappropriate.

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/CR01-24-31665/2025/041825+Order+Memorializing+Oral+Rulings+on+Motions+in+Limine.pdf

JMO

 

[iusedtofloat]

I wanted you all to know I appreciate you answering my questions/confusion about the state's arguments. As time goes on, it appears BK is likely guilty. I just desperately want people to get a fair trial <modsnip: off topic> and I think that case gave me some blinders. I feel like anyone who would read the evidence without any other context (media, family comments, etc) would probably come to the conclusion BK did it. Now I'm just wondering if he did it alone or...

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

From that same document:

(in interview 4 days after the bodies were discovered)

She stated that sometime between 4:00 a.m. and 4:20 a.m., she woke up and heard a male's voice that she did not recognize say "It's okay, I'm going to help you."

She also stated the exact same thing at the May 15, 2023 grand jury hearing.


I believe her direct quote has also been stated in previous State filings. Since this filing is focused on the eyebrow testimony, it has likely left out the other times she made that statement to police. I will try to look back at other documents later.

Maybe he was talking to the dog to stop it barking?
Maybe he was talking to himself = self soothing?
Maybe he's got dissociative personality disorder and has a 'helper' personality?
Maybe he had another criminal assistant with him?
Maybe he was assisting another criminal and it was a joint enterprise?
Maybe it was the voice of Ethan who was already badly wounded and therefore his voice sounded different?
Maybe DM was so stressed she heard a voice that wasn't even real?
<modsnip: Metaphysical discussion is off limits>
Maybe BK didn't want a remaining victim to scream out and was pretending to be a helper?
Maybe BK wanted to lull a victim into false sense of security and was pretending to be LE?

 

[iusedtofloat]

Maybe he was talking to the dog to stop it barking?
Maybe he was talking to himself = self soothing?
Maybe he's got dissociative personality disorder and has a 'helper' personality?
Maybe he had another criminal assistant with him?
Maybe he was assisting another criminal and it was a joint enterprise?
Maybe it was the voice of Ethan who was already badly wounded and therefore his voice sounded different?
Maybe DM was so stressed she heard a voice that wasn't even real?
<modsnip: Metaphysical discussion is off limits>
Maybe BK didn't want a remaining victim to scream out and was pretending to be a helper?
Maybe BK wanted to lull a victim into false sense of security and was pretending to be LE?

I'm betting the last one

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

He looks proud to me. Almost a smirk.
He still thinks he’s the smartest guy around and is sure we’re all in awe of him.

It's probably pretty difficult having a mug shot. They probably tell you to look straight ahead, push your head back against the wall, raise your chin up, etc. Then you get accused of looking defiant and smug. If a person looks sad, they'd be accused of being guilty or ashamed. If they smile and try to look cheerful or pleasant, that's even worse. Also, it's my suspicion that a lot of defendants are medicated on quite heavy substances, anti-psychotics or sedatives and the like. That could make them appear different too.

Re BK specifically, to critique his appearance, I think his eyes look slightly sunken, he looks pale, slightly gaunt, is probably malnourished or iron deficient. To get really personal, his eyes are slightly closer together than an average person in the context of the size of his whole head. Aside from that he looks clean, well groomed, has clear eyes, no scars or tattoos or piercings or strange markings and is pretty average looking in the grand scheme of things IMO. It's only because we know who he is we have a bad impression of him I think. I wonder what an AI assessment would say?

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Wait, according to the headline, BK has some 'twisted fans' ? What twisted fans? I wasn't aware of this, what is this suggestion?

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I've seen a few people here saying that MM was probably his main target. Has that been established? What's the reasoning? I admit i haven't read through all of the many threads of this case because it's overwhelming, but I've been wondering about this.

No it is not established. Maybe we'll never know. However, there are some clues such as the order of events (who got murdered in what order basically) and how it went down as best assessed / proven by forensics and timings that have been scrutinized by all the experts on various grounds.

There's ideas, speculation, hypotheses. Such as KG had actually moved out of the house and was only back for a flying visit in her new car together with the dog. It's possible BK would not / could not have known of this visit and was thinking that MM was alone in the top part of the house based on stalking and watching on nights into the lead up. KG had already packed up and vacated her room prior this event and was sleeping in with MM which was an unusual and possibly one off situation. So there is speculation that BK was expecting to find MM alone. Also that because the remaining two victims, X and E, were on the level of the house he had to pass through to exit, they had become targets as collateral damage maybe as they saw him or one tried to stop him or confront him or he encountered (one of) them by accident.

It's also a working assumption by many that BK did not plan to go into a home populated by six people intending to slaughter them all or even four of them as that would be extremely unusual and unlikely to work. Speculation is that he had been watching the upper level of the house from a raised slope at the rear accessible by car on many previous occasions. JMO MOO

 

[bugenjoyer]

Wait, according to the headline, BK has some 'twisted fans' ? What twisted fans? I wasn't aware of this, what is this suggestion?

I feel like whenever a youngish man is arrested for murder, there's always a bunch of very strange women who come out of the woodworks to write love letters and proclaim his innocence... i assume that's who the article is referring to..

 

[femto]

Since he took the sheath, I would assume he was using it as intended - to hold the knife inside the sheath until it were needed, thereby not accidentally dropping it or causing himself a cut.
Since he's a runner and generally sporty person, he would be familiar with the concept of strapping and clipping all required accessories to his body whilst on the move. So my guess is he had the sheath fixed to himself, on a belt or some sort of clip that during the incident failed. OR he discarded the sheath intentionally whilst 'knowing' that it had no trace of him.

Just for chat

Pertaining to your 1st sentence. I think he had the sheath on the knife protecting him from cutting himself and to concealed it, even in the 4 am quiet. Also, sheath likely has a belt loop clip and it was clipped on to his coveralls and somehow that is where it became unfastened during his rampage? Perhaps this is how they know what fibers the sheath was rubbing up against and could pinpoint the type and make of clothing he wore.

About the sheath, the reason I said that is because it was useless to him at that time. His target was only a few feet away from him, bringing the sheath is an unnecessary hassle at best and a very big potential evidence for the police at worst. Even without the DNA, the fact that LE would know the killer's murder weapon is huge in narrowing down suspects, especially when it comes to a small town. A Ka-Bar is not exactly a kitchen knife

Maybe he didn't even have an obsession or fixation on any of the young women at all - maybe he simply targeted 'the house' as was mentioned by LE early on, as he knew it was a transient student party household with various single women in residence (or so he thought) and his intention was to sneak into a populated home and kill one person - no motive, no connection, no evidence. A total mystery. Just a game. Perhaps he really is zero empathy, lacking in bits of brain wiring, doesn't comprehend that games in which people die are traumatic and soul destroying to the vast majority of human beings. For him it was possibly a bold career move or just a bit of entertainment.

The reason I find this highly unlikely is that if it was the house he targeted, he would have simply went to the first door he found (which would be Dylan's), kill and leave. He specifically went to the third floor first and he seemed absolutely sure where he was going because he didn't try to enter Dylan or Xana's room, or go to the first floor or do anything that would suggest he kinda stumbled on it. He was very specific and didn't waste any time. Now when he got to the top floor it gets murky which door he tried first, but given that the dog was in Kaylee's room and presumably already barking, I don't think he tried entering there. It would have been quite a problem if he suddenly let the dog run out of the room. So by process of elimination we're left with him going specifically for Maddie's room. It's also the room that is most visible if you park in the back of the house. Along with the fact that Kaylee was only occasionally visiting there at that point, makes me think that Maddie was his target and everyone else was an unfortunate collateral.

 

[SteveP]

About the sheath, the reason I said that is because it was useless to him at that time. His target was only a few feet away from him, bringing the sheath is an unnecessary hassle at best and a very big potential evidence for the police at worst. Even without the DNA, the fact that LE would know the killer's murder weapon is huge in narrowing down suspects, especially when it comes to a small town. A Ka-Bar is not exactly a kitchen knife

The reason I find this highly unlikely is that if it was the house he targeted, he would have simply went to the first door he found (which would be Dylan's), kill and leave. He specifically went to the third floor first and he seemed absolutely sure where he was going because he didn't try to enter Dylan or Xana's room, or go to the first floor or do anything that would suggest he kinda stumbled on it. He was very specific and didn't waste any time. Now when he got to the top floor it gets murky which door he tried first, but given that the dog was in Kaylee's room and presumably already barking, I don't think he tried entering there. It would have been quite a problem if he suddenly let the dog run out of the room. So by process of elimination we're left with him going specifically for Maddie's room. It's also the room that is most visible if you park in the back of the house. Along with the fact that Kaylee was only occasionally visiting there at that point, makes me think that Maddie was his target and everyone else was an unfortunate collateral.

I agree with a most of what you said, but I will interject that I had also assumed that Murphy was the dog barking on the neighbor's audio recording around 4:17, but poster @russoca pointed me to this post from @Allabouttrial, transcribing an interview where both Kaylee's mom and sister stated that Murphy was not a barker, that he had always been used to being in a house with several people, and that if he was afraid, he likely would have just hidden. That, of course, is not to say that he was not or did not bark, but if what they said is true, it seems to make it less likely. JMO

Post in thread 'ID - 4 University of Idaho Students Murdered - Moscow # 30'

Dec 14, 2022

.

From what I understand, with lots of people in the house, and between two houses, the dog might have grown up with the feeling that people were good. So is it even possible that in this situation, the dog got scared, too? It would be interesting to see if the dog were barking and scratching, or hiding in the corner and whining?

This was a short clip before Entin's interview with Kaylee's parents and sister but it never made it into the interview. It's still on his twitter feed.

TRANSCRIPT OF SHORT CLIP.

Source

3RD DECEMBER.

Sister - You know, we still don't know...

• Allabouttrial

• 
• 
• 

 

[StarryStarryNight]

It's probably pretty difficult having a mug shot. They probably tell you to look straight ahead, push your head back against the wall, raise your chin up, etc. Then you get accused of looking defiant and smug. If a person looks sad, they'd be accused of being guilty or ashamed. If they smile and try to look cheerful or pleasant, that's even worse. Also, it's my suspicion that a lot of defendants are medicated on quite heavy substances, anti-psychotics or sedatives and the like. That could make them appear different too.

Re BK specifically, to critique his appearance, I think his eyes look slightly sunken, he looks pale, slightly gaunt, is probably malnourished or iron deficient. To get really personal, his eyes are slightly closer together than an average person in the context of the size of his whole head. Aside from that he looks clean, well groomed, has clear eyes, no scars or tattoos or piercings or strange markings and is pretty average looking in the grand scheme of things IMO. It's only because we know who he is we have a bad impression of him I think. I wonder what an AI assessment would say?

I appreciate what you’re saying. It’s certainly minor and irrelevant what any of us think of his mugshot. So, of course I will, expound upon it.
We’ve all seen plenty of mugshots of people arrested on all sorts of offenses and, speaking for myself only, I’ve never seen anybody with that expression before.
His expression is fine, if he’s your child’s seventh grade math teacher greeting you at open house. But he’s not, and we know he’s not.
Who he is does not influence my impression of him. If he was my child’s seventh grade math teacher, I would think that was a nice picture.
What he is accused of and the mountain of evidence against him does influence my opinion though. So, instead of what a pleasant guy teaching my child, I think he looks shamelessly prideful of murdering four young people.

Just how I see it

 

[DizzyB]

I'm betting the last one

I wondered if Xana had whimpered or quietly called out for help when she saw BK, and he responded.

 

[girlhasnoname]

I usually speed him up to 1.5 or even 1.75. You can still see everything and understand what is being said, it just doesn't take so long. He usually has great info, but the length of his streams often exceed the length of my attention span. JMO

same

 

[Megnut]

From your post…

“He wasn’t studying course materials or writing a true thesis, that was secondary. He was studying how to kill people…”

I think you nailed it.
“He was studying how to kill people” should be the first line in the prosecutors opening statement.

He didn't complete his project, defended it orally, it sounds like.

I think BK is cunning.

He did complete his Master's project IMO, his way. Culiminating in a murder he started arranging months before. Right around when his coursework was coming due. BK knew he needed more time. To complete his real project.

I think he thinks it was a real coup. Not studying serial killers, becoming one.

JMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

He could have even put the knife in one of those cylindrical plastic tubes that LE use to contain a knife removed from a crime scene, then it really would have looked like a handheld vacuum cleaner. It's unlikely his 'immaculate plan' (my speculation) would have involved pushing a used and blooded and soiled knife back into a sheath. What would be the point of even attempting to put the knife back in the sheath - it would be messy and just another item with 'proof' of the crime on it?

His only goal would be to remove the used knife with as little trail and trace of it as possible. Far more sensible to leave the sheath behind maybe?

Perhaps he really did discard the sheath when he took out the knife assuming it was completely free of any of his DNA or fibres and that he would never touch it again, that the used knife would not be returned into the sheath. Also to throw the scent - that it could have been a military personnel or hunter perpetrator and not a staunch vegan bookish university academic.

JMO MOO

Or maybe he was in such a hurry to leave (neighborhood noises) he couldn't chance going back to look for the sheath? That is a dangerously large and sharp knife, he would have needed a way to carry it without causing harm to himself (leaving his DNA).

I think he grabbed something from Xana's room and wrapped it up on the way out. Walking fast to exit, walking right past DM's alcove (she was peering out from behind her door not standing right in the hallway IIRC) to the slider. I never believed he saw her, just that she saw him.

JMO

 

[Ghostwheel]

About the sheath, the reason I said that is because it was useless to him at that time. His target was only a few feet away from him, bringing the sheath is an unnecessary hassle at best and a very big potential evidence for the police at worst. Even without the DNA, the fact that LE would know the killer's murder weapon is huge in narrowing down suspects, especially when it comes to a small town. A Ka-Bar is not exactly a kitchen knife

The reason I find this highly unlikely is that if it was the house he targeted, he would have simply went to the first door he found (which would be Dylan's), kill and leave. He specifically went to the third floor first and he seemed absolutely sure where he was going because he didn't try to enter Dylan or Xana's room, or go to the first floor or do anything that would suggest he kinda stumbled on it. He was very specific and didn't waste any time. Now when he got to the top floor it gets murky which door he tried first, but given that the dog was in Kaylee's room and presumably already barking, I don't think he tried entering there. It would have been quite a problem if he suddenly let the dog run out of the room. So by process of elimination we're left with him going specifically for Maddie's room. It's also the room that is most visible if you park in the back of the house. Along with the fact that Kaylee was only occasionally visiting there at that point, makes me think that Maddie was his target and everyone else was an unfortunate collateral.

But do we know he didn't try DM's door? If she was asleep before the noise, might he have tried it and found it locked?

I actually believe he thought that room was empty if he had been stalking the house.

 

[Ghostwheel]

New random thought. What if it was a standard stalking the house night, all items for a kill along for the ride and maybe a normal thing he carried with him, and he saw the strange car? Thinking KG to have moved out, and IF MM was his target, could the thought of her having someone over have triggered the actual act? We'll likely never know, but attacking when a strange car is around would be very strange indeed.

 

[girlhasnoname]

I wonder, if his plan had gone smoothly, if he was intending to get himself involved in the investigations or be a 'helper' somehow?

Very possible, he had recently been turned down by Pullman LE after he applied for a job there.

 

[Megnut]

Maybe he was talking to the dog to stop it barking?
Maybe he was talking to himself = self soothing?
Maybe he's got dissociative personality disorder and has a 'helper' personality?
Maybe he had another criminal assistant with him?
Maybe he was assisting another criminal and it was a joint enterprise?
Maybe it was the voice of Ethan who was already badly wounded and therefore his voice sounded different?
Maybe DM was so stressed she heard a voice that wasn't even real?
<modsnip: Metaphysical discussion is off limits>
Maybe BK didn't want a remaining victim to scream out and was pretending to be a helper?
Maybe BK wanted to lull a victim into false sense of security and was pretending to be LE?

"It's okay, I'm here to help."

I wish we knew the exact order and timing of sounds, sentences, etc.

But Murphy is one I hadn't thought of....

It could make sense...

BK murders MM possibly before he even realized she wasn't alone, then murders KG, and as he turns to leave, maybe he sees Murphy who he tries to lure closer, with evil intent. "It's okay, I'm here to help you." Like, "here, Kitty Kitty." Instead maybe Murphy retreats. At the same time BK hears DM down one floor. Suddenly she's a graver threat, he abandons Murphy, descends to the middle floor where he encounters XK...

JMO