4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #106

[gremlin444]

Did they expand on why it's believed Maddie was the target? I thought it was interesting that they stated she was the target and that Kaylee would have surprised him, considering the narrative for so long seemed to be that Kaylee was the target.

IMHO, the narrative that Kaylee was the target came entirely from her dad. Starting with his very earliest interviews, he equated the difference in the types of wounds Kaylee had to what Maddie and the other victims had (we now know he was likely referring to the blows to her face and her cuts/stabs may have been more open due to her moving at the time of being attacked) as due to her being the target.

Over time, likely as he got more information from the investigators and his initial all encompassing grief and anger had subsided a bit, I think he came to understand that the difference in wounds was due to MM being asleep and KG waking up and trying to protect/defend herself in a confined space.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

Dateline reported that it is believed that when he entered through the second floor, unlocked slider, the killer bypassed the two bedrooms on that level and went directly upstairs to Maddie's room, leading investigators to conclude that she was the primary target. If BK had no prior connection to any of the victims, as is thought, Maddie is the one he most easily could have spied on, and become fixated on, as her bedroom window could be easily seen into from the parking area beside and behind the house, where he likely stopped and perved many of the alleged 23 previous trips to within 100 meters of the house. JMO

That makes sense to me, that he has seen her through that window. It may also have been a kind of "flow" for the crime, start upstairs and work down.

 

[Megnut]

BK's Hike as Alibi?

@Dayday7 I think I'm following the thought in above ^ but see it differently.

Yes, some evd of a hike in the great outdoors at night may help estab. that a def. (not necessarily in this case) was a night owl, if nighttime HitGOaN habit was relevant. Here I'm missing the relevance.
These homicides ---
- did not occur in time approaching sunset, like ^ hike.
- did not occur in the great outdoors.
- and IIRC, did not occur until 4:00a.m.- ish, even if the hike occurred the exact evening preceding those deaths (which I don't recall that it did, but ICBWrong).

Another point---
the time frame for the deaths is narrowly book-ended by digital/electronic evd, a combo of surviving housemates' texts, sec. cam vid's, etc, into a time slot of what, ~10min.

Whatever BK was doing at (almost) sunset preceding those deaths is not particularly relevant to the crim case for the four deaths & burglary offenses.

Even if from 8pm to midnight before the deaths, if BK had been w ten others in person, engaged in Bible study, or leading a BoyScout law enforcement post, or bowling in a WSU league, and if all of them were ready, willing, and able to get up on their hind legs, climb onto the witness stand, take the oath, and testify for the def., what would that prove about BK's whereabouts in those min.'s after 4am?

imo

This.

And let us not forget the almighty AT and her indignation at the Court, how BK was driving just not over and not stopping, when in fact, he WAS driving over there. And stopping
And he'd done it many times before.

So add that to the checklist.

BK was driving in his Elantra which was captured on CCTV very near the crime scene, in a location with which he had a notable degree of history and familiarity, near to where 4 coeds were murdered with the exact same style of weapon BK purchased online, matching the sheath left behind, bearing BK's DNA.

I don't know who might have been driving south of Pullman and west of Moscow .... but it wasn't BK. In fact, if any crimes occurred that night closer to his apartment around 4 am, it wasn't BK. He's got a pretty rock solid alibi from about 3:30 am until 4:20. Over in Moscow... killing people with his kbar.

JMO

 

[pittsburghgirl]

Totally agree on that. This wasn't just supposed to lay out the prosecution case against him, but paint the picture. It comes off as one-sided because his family isn't talking. Just a strange event, one that could certainly help the defense a bit.

I'm sure he wasn't in much danger though, as he certainly had his trusty Ka-Bar!

Thinking like a female juror who was once a distance runner, him being on a trail at night scares the bejeepers out of me. WhenI finished a run when it started to get dark, running into a man at that time of night would have scared me.

 

[Rolypolyoly]

SG probably not, but there are other families involved here: Ethan's parents and siblings, Maddie's bio father, who was interviewed way back (there were links on here), her mother and I think a step-father, Xana's father and mother, plus an aunt, who brought Xana and her sister up for a few years - this info was all on thread way, way back. For all I know, there could be some of these people opposed to DP, but they likely won't get a say either. They've generally been much quieter about the case.

MOO

Thankyou for saying this. I'm still catching up, but I've been looking out for a post like I was planning to make.
My take is that there is such a lot of talk about SG and what he wants, and would accept etc, and the details of that aside, I think it's worth noting that there are 3 other sets of parents and wider family involved here, and just because SG's voice is the loudest, it doesn't make his the only voice.

I'm sure I read way back that at least one family, and I'm thinking it was The Chapin's, weren't advocating for the DP.
Don't take that as fact because I would have to search for an article to back it up, so this is just my opinion.

 

[Cool Cats]

We will want to check your internet searches. Then, we will talk about those dinner knives. And where is that cat shirt?

Cat is laying on it so searching Amazon for cat hair lint brushes. Nothing to see here.

 

[gremlin444]

XK's music goes of at 4:12, the audio starts at 4:17.... it suggests that he was engaged with XK for five minutes, that is a loooooong forever when one side of the conversation has a Kbar.

Somehow he had her incapacitated, by force or injury, while he murdered EC. In that moment IMO XK had no world outside her room. And honestly, who could expect her to. I doubt she was able even to comprehend he may have murdered KG and MM, BF and DM. She would have been consumed with survival and trying to make since of what was happening in her room. Whimpers, crying, IMO involuntary utterances, she might not have been aware herself that she did or didn't make a sound.

I can't myself make much sense of the audio but could the thud have occurred outside, BK jumping from a retaining wall, for instance?

Could 'It's okay in here to help you' been what DM and the audio picked up, DM looks out, BK is leaving, jumps off a retaining wall, dog starts barking, all one sequence, occurring within seconds?

jmo

To me, the wording of all the reports saying that they know Xana was on TikTok at 4:12 makes it unclear if that means that was when she closed the app or if it was the time she started watching her final video.

I went back to the show and wrote down the time stamps from the neighbor's security camera.

4:17:33-4:17:35 voice(s) caught on camera
4:17:40 thud sound
4:17:53 dog starts to bark
4:20:45 headlights of killers car show up on camera followed shortly by the car itself coming within view

--end of voices to thud sound: 5 seconds
--end of thud to the dog starting to bark: 13 seconds
--beginning of dog barking to car headlights coming into view as it starts to speed away (which ----isn't necessarily when the car was started...the problem is, we don't know where he parked. If he parked on the hill to the side there would be several seconds between the car starting and when it turned onto the road in front of the house): 2 min 53 seconds

IMHO, the voices and thud are too close in time for BK to have been able to get out of Xana's room, ran through the house and outside to a retaining wall.

 

[gremlin444]

I believe part of his issues are not sleeping and very limited sleep escalating his problems. I also believe that he did not willingly seek treatment, diagnoses, or medication (or even fought it). Like with bipolar disorder, people do not like feeling medicated.

I do also have thoughts about heroin use in the developing brain at a young age, along with pronounced abuse of substances causing medical conditions or advancing them further. If you are fixated on women but assumably not pursuing relationships, there are probably some social/sexual dysfunction(s) or other tendencies that you are not happy that are assigned to you. Not only did he not fit in the world, but the world did not fit him. I think his rage stemmed from those issues. JMOO

In the tapatalk posts BK wrote, he talks about seeing therapists, doctors, and specialists--some for treatment of the migraines, some for the visual snow, and I seem to recall at least one mention of therapy. He also mentions several medications by name--the one I recall off the top of my head was Topamax for migraines (and he had a bad reaction to it).

From the behaviors described by the bar owner and the people at the pool party, it does seem that he was at least trying to initiate contact with women that could lead to a relationship (or who knows, maybe a one night stand, but that seems a lot less likely). He was just entirely awful and unsuccessful at it. He didn't seem to learn from his failures and adapt his approach to women.

Heroin definitely would have had an impact on his growing brain and conditions, IMHO.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

That's interesting! That also makes sense. Bundy killed some in their beds, but when he first murdered, he abducted them from their beds or in public, and took them to the location where they were murdered. Bundy was also a necropheliac - perhaps Kohberger wanted to experiment with that too.

What you suggest seems quite possible. If Maddie had been alone sleeping in her bed, and he had quietly over-powered her, then he could have taken her out of the house and no one would have known what happened. The knife would not necessarily have been used.

It was two women in one room that he could not deal with, so he had no plan within minutes of entering the house.

This makes sense to me. It also seems likely to me that he either counted on his mask to hide his entity or was just emulating Bundy, leaving a woman alive.

 

[SteveP]

Thankyou for saying this. I'm still catching up, but I've been looking out for a post like I was planning to make.
My take is that there is such a lot of talk about SG and what he wants, and would accept etc, and the details of that aside, I think it's worth noting that there are 3 other sets of parents and wider family involved here, and just because SG's voice is the loudest, it doesn't make his the only voice.

I'm sure I read way back that at least one family, and I'm thinking it was The Chapin's, weren't advocating for the DP.
Don't take that as fact because I would have to search for an article to back it up, so this is just my opinion.

Some family members have not publicly stated their feelings on the death penalty, but Xana's mother, at least, is not advocating for the death penalty, unless her feelings have changed since this report of June, 2023.

Father Steve Goncalves and mother Kristi Goncalves have both announced their support for the death penalty, according to reports, as has father Ben Mogen.

Cara Kernodle, the mother of Xana Kernodle, has stated she is against the death penalty while also saying she hopes the accused "spends the rest of his days in prison."

Some of the victims' families haven't publicly commented on their stance toward the death penalty for this case, however, reflecting a split among the parents.

Idaho murder victims' parents divided over death penalty ...

Some of the families of the victims have said they support the death penalty, while others hold a stance against it or have not made their views clear.

www.newsweek.com

 

[MassGuy]

It looks like the parties have agreed to the language that will be used to convey to the jury that a "tip" put Kohberger on police radar, without referencing IGG.

Pre-trial conference on Thursday, which I imagine will be streamed.

https://s3.dualstack.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/isc.coi/CR01-24-31665/Summary/Current-Case-Summary.pdf

 

[gremlin444]

just wanna point out that weight loss isn't always a good or healthy thing. couldn't the weight loss be related to the heroin use? imo

The weight loss was primarily before the heroin addiction. He lost upwards of 100 lbs by adhering to a strict diet and rigid exercise routine. Some of this is documented in his tapatalk posts.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

Thankyou for saying this. I'm still catching up, but I've been looking out for a post like I was planning to make.
My take is that there is such a lot of talk about SG and what he wants, and would accept etc, and the details of that aside, I think it's worth noting that there are 3 other sets of parents and wider family involved here, and just because SG's voice is the loudest, it doesn't make his the only voice.

I'm sure I read way back that at least one family, and I'm thinking it was The Chapin's, weren't advocating for the DP.
Don't take that as fact because I would have to search for an article to back it up, so this is just my opinion.

The thing about the death penalty is that it drags out the families' agony through appeal after appeal. And then after maybe decades, the killer is put to death and that doesn't really resolve the agony of loss.

 

[Megnut]

Thinking like a female juror who was once a distance runner, him being on a trail at night scares the bejeepers out of me. The I finished a run when it started to et dark, running into a man at that time of night would have scared me.

But.... if you'd run into a couple of times and he seemed to know the guys in your group, it might knock the creepy down, at least that might be what he was angling for.

Moving stuff around in someone's house, that is just so next level head messing.

I think that was what he was after -- toying with people. Getting them off balance.

He liked being scary. Somehow he had insight enough for that.

JMO

 

[Sachi]

That makes sense to me, that he has seen her through that window. It may also have been a kind of "flow" for the crime, start upstairs and work down.

This makes sense

 

[QB2022]

Also, its Maddie's room the attack occurred in.

Plus KG had literally jsut got a new car. If he knew her old car then the presence of her new one would have left him clueless she was there. He may have taken her car not being there as confirmation she wasn't there.

 

[gremlin444]

Funny you should mention that. I started to think about the many faces of BK. It appears there are quite a few presentations of him. That got me thinking that he could be suffering from multiple personality disorder. Could there be many sides to his coin?

Dedicated and committed to ideas (weight loss, rehab, veganism, schooling). Some people perceived him as charming, others flat out creepy. Then there is the face he shows to his family, possibly different ones to each sister and even how he is appearing in court. I am not sure if he is truly Machiavellian, a chameleon who represents a different type of person when he deems appropriate, or lost in a flurry of multiples. Just a stray thought.

From my family experience with OCD, I've found that it is pretty common for people with OCD to be able to put on a public face that comes across to others as being pretty functional. Combine that with the phenomenon of masking common to people with autism spectrum and several years of virtual school, and he can appear to be quite successful to people who interact with him in those very restricted circumstances, IMHO.

I don't recall anyone saying he could come across as charming. Maybe that could be implied by his WSU office mate having a crush on him?

 

[QB2022]

Also, its Maddie's room the attack occurred in.

Plus KG had literally jsut got a new car. If he knew her old car then the presence of her new one would have left him clueless she was there. He may have taken her car not being there as confirmation she wasn't there.

 

[gremlin444]

To me, the wording of all the reports saying that they know Xana was on TikTok at 4:12 makes it unclear if that means that was when she closed the app or if it was the time she started watching her final video.

I went back to the show and wrote down the time stamps from the neighbor's security camera.

4:17:33-4:17:35 voice(s) caught on camera
4:17:40 thud sound
4:17:53 dog starts to bark
4:20:45 headlights of killers car show up on camera followed shortly by the car itself coming within view

--end of voices to thud sound: 5 seconds
--end of thud to the dog starting to bark: 13 seconds
--beginning of dog barking to car headlights coming into view as it starts to speed away (which ----isn't necessarily when the car was started...the problem is, we don't know where he parked. If he parked on the hill to the side there would be several seconds between the car starting and when it turned onto the road in front of the house): 2 min 53 seconds

IMHO, the voices and thud are too close in time for BK to have been able to get out of Xana's room, ran through the house and outside to a retaining wall.

Thinking about it, the delay between the voices/thud and the dog beginning to bark is interesting but I don't know what to make of it. I wonder if DM heard a dog barking while she opened her door that final time.

 

[Rolypolyoly]

Wow, a lot of new info just in the one brief piece! One thing that struck me was that I have always thought BK only wanted to kill. After hearing of those searches on his phone, I am now wondering if perhaps he did have other plans for Maddie, before killing her, and Kaylee's presence thwarted those plans, and may have provoked rage from BK, possibly contributing to what seems to be a more vicious attack of Kaylee.

ETA: The more I think about it, the less likely I am to believe that he would have done anything that knowingly could have left his DNA behind, so maybe that was just sick fantasy, and he got off on looking at sleeping or otherwise vulnerable women, knowing that he COULD have his way with them. JMO

i think you're right that he wouldn't have done anything to leave his DNA behind, but as awful as it is to say, he could've been thinking about using an object to...do SA. and maybe the fact that MM and KG were unexpectedly sharing a bed changed his plans. IMO

Again, I'm still catching up so please bear with me, but I agree. It's always been my opinion that he planned to rape and kill Maddie that night, and Kaylee threw his plan into chaos.

I was also going to reply that an object could just as easily be used for a serial assault, possibly the handle of a knife, but @bugenjoyer beat me to it, so I'm agreeing instead

One more thing to note, although I dont believe it would have been true in this case as the coveralls say different, but rapists have been known to use condoms. Though I doubt that would fully negate the possibility of DNA, and then there's hairs and skin cells that could be left.
JMO