4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #107

[Tealgrove]

Wait, what? No Loch Ness Monster? I am crushed.

 

[Ghostwheel]

This has been mentioned before in a prior thread. Not everyone assumes he knew everything about everyone. Picked up what you're putting down!

Edited: I had never heard that idiom before. (didn't even know it was an idiom). I apologize for being confused and clueless.

Who was putting down anything? I was playing Devil's advocate to Otto's thought process, which is not putting down anything.

"A devil's advocate is a person who intentionally presents the opposing argument to a claim or viewpoint, even if they don't actually believe it, for the purpose of sparking discussion, exploring different perspectives, or making sure all sides of an issue are considered."

 

[Bahshudc]

I actually had a totally different perception of the intended victim when I first heard about this case. As of now, I’m not 100% sure and think it’s unfair to dismiss those who think the target may NOT have been Maddie (or ONLY Maddie). Ultimately, it’s all speculation other than what is in the court documents, and even then we only make out a small fraction of the entire story.

When I first heard about the case, I thought the intended victim was Kaylee BECAUSE her car was there and it was her final night at the residence. While BK was likely casing the house, he wouldn’t have necessarily known that KG was moving out - especially when none of the other roommates did. It made sense to me that KG moving out meant BK “missed” his opportunity with her. Therefore, when she posted on Instagram at the residence that day, and subsequently parked her car outside, BK knew this was his final opportunity to attack KG.


While I don’t strictly believe this anymore, I do think is plausible still. I’ve not made my mind up, and don’t know how anybody else can at this moment in time. Sure, MM being the target is absolutely logical. But I put a lot of thought into WHY that night? WHY attack with multiple cars outside? WHY attack a home which has just received a DoorDash (and therefore obviously with awake residents inside)??? I felt like BK was desperate and maybe even “rushed”. He realised KG had / was moving away, and knew he had to strike now. This is purely MOO, I just don’t think we should close ourselves off to alternate perspectives on the intended target.

I’ve also even wondered if both KG and MM were the intended targets; they’re beautiful and inseparable best friends, the very definition of what BK cannot have. All the girls in that house were, and EC was a better man than he would ever be. BK had every reason, in his twisted mind, to be jealous of these kids. There is a motive there for each and every one of them.

Purely moo, again. Sorry for the rant.

 

[fcavanaugh]

RSBMFF
Apologies, I meant to address your last sentence in previous reply and too late to edit.

I understand what you mean and concern about the possibility proberger gets on the Jury, also applies to those that are antibergers (is that even a term floating around the interwebs yet lol). My thoughts on that are we can only hope that people are honest in their self reporting during voir dire.

What I mean is, imo our judicial system relies in part, on people being honest in self reporting r/t even if they’ve heard of the case and/or follow the case and/or have formed an opinion one way or the other, can they be impartial if selected to sit on a Jury/decide the accused’s fate?

Of course there’s a lot more to the voir dire process than that and expected for this case will be a quite detailed, rigorous process, history proves there have been dishonest, unscrupulous people who have managed to get on a Jury and cause problems aka juror misconduct some of which ends up ceasing or or at the very least delaying trial proceedings, sadly and unfortunately. That’s if they’re even sussed out/caught which kinda scary thought if not. Anyhoo, these are also known as stealth jurors, links provided below, including a couple links (part 1, and part 2) r/t identifying stealth jurors during voir dire which I found very interesting and enlightening.

At any rate, we can only hope people are honest in self reporting during voir dire that they can be impartial if selected to sit on Jury and with that and the very rigorous voir dire expected in this case (iiuc Judge H is sequestering voir dire), will hopefully avoid any stealth jurors slipping by/getting on the Jury.

Stealth juror - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

How to Identify a Stealth Juror - Part 1 | Courtroom Sciences

Discover the concept of a 'stealth juror' - someone who hides their bias while pretending to be neutral. Learn how to identify and deal with these individuals during the jury selection process.

www.courtroomsciences.com

How to Identify a Stealth Juror - Part 2 | Courtroom Sciences

Discover the concept of a 'stealth juror' - someone who hides their bias while pretending to be neutral. Learn how to identify and deal with these individuals during the jury selection process.

www.courtroomsciences.com

#JusticeforKaylee,Maddie,Xana,and
Ethan

IMHOO

ETA-fixed link

I wanted to follow-up on the above to avoid any confusion and preempt people responding with ‘not everyone in the state of Idaho has heard of this case, follows case, follows true crime at all, doesn’t watch the news, etc.
I’m very much aware as my Spouse is one of those people, well he watches/listens to the news lol, but has no interest in true crime whatsoever/following cases, doesn’t pay attention to cases in the news, etc.

Anyway back to my point, I’m well aware they can find honest, unbiased people who don’t follow true crime and never heard of this case to sit on the Jury. My above post is strictly referring to those who *might* not be being honest in self reporting that they never heard of the case, don’t follow true crime or this case and/or if they do can be impartial regardless. And found the links I posted to be very informative as far as how/different techniques experienced professionals use and rely on to weed out potential rogue/stealth jurors and posted them in case others were interested.

Carry on

#JusticeforKaylee,Maddie,Xana,and
Ethan

IMHOO

 

[concernedcitizen706]

What if BK didn't know who was in what room?

Still catching up, but the owners might have removed the camera to keep someone from stealing it thinking it might have something a curiosity seeker would like to see. Or... it could have just been stolen. Of course LE might have taken the whole thing, but I'm not sure why they would.

Law enforcement takes the cameras of crime scenes because they need the codes on the cameras to prove it's the right camera and they need the hardware from the camera I believe to get other identifying information off that camera.

 

[concernedcitizen706]

That barking was later, around the time Xana and Ethan were being murdered (or shortly after).

He wasn't leaving that night without committing the murders. He didn't come that far just to walk out and try again.

There is no evidence he knew anything from social media; no connection has ever been established.

No DM said that it sounded like Kaylee was playing with her dog in her room, before the attacks began. Then there was also talk of the dog barking after or around the time they heard what sounded like a large slump. So the dog was probably barking both before and after.

Okay so was BK interested in sexual assault of Maddie and spending some time with her, like everyone says, or just flat-out murdering her? Because if all he cared about is murdering Maddie, then Kaylee did not ruin anything really for the night. If he really cared about having a big moment alone with Maddie, he would have left once he saw Kaylee there. In fact he would have left once he heard xana call out, there's somebody here. Because right there he knows he did not get into the house undetected. Since the two girls upstairs were asleep he could have waited till xana left, as in went to bed, and then snuck out again. I'm sure he had been in the house before, so it should no big deal to sneak out and come back again. So the fact that he did not leave when he could have, shows that he really was not interested in some alone time with Maddie.

No I think law enforcement is going with that idea, because it's the easier motive to sell. That's what people want to hear, that one girl was targeted, the hottest blonde girl was the one. That the guy was in love with the hot blonde girl. Explaining that BK wanted power glory and fame, like Ted Bundy and Elliot Rogers and BTK, is not something most people want to hear about. Explaining the BK wanted to kill a household of people, as many as he could get away with, is hard for people to wrap their head around. It's a more complex concept to sell. So they might as well stick to the romantic angle that he was in love with a beautiful blonde girl. People will find it more palatable.

 

[iamshadow21]

I actually had a totally different perception of the intended victim when I first heard about this case. As of now, I’m not 100% sure and think it’s unfair to dismiss those who think the target may NOT have been Maddie (or ONLY Maddie). Ultimately, it’s all speculation other than what is in the court documents, and even then we only make out a small fraction of the entire story.

When I first heard about the case, I thought the intended victim was Kaylee BECAUSE her car was there and it was her final night at the residence. While BK was likely casing the house, he wouldn’t have necessarily known that KG was moving out - especially when none of the other roommates did. It made sense to me that KG moving out meant BK “missed” his opportunity with her. Therefore, when she posted on Instagram at the residence that day, and subsequently parked her car outside, BK knew this was his final opportunity to attack KG.


While I don’t strictly believe this anymore, I do think is plausible still. I’ve not made my mind up, and don’t know how anybody else can at this moment in time. Sure, MM being the target is absolutely logical. But I put a lot of thought into WHY that night? WHY attack with multiple cars outside? WHY attack a home which has just received a DoorDash (and therefore obviously with awake residents inside)??? I felt like BK was desperate and maybe even “rushed”. He realised KG had / was moving away, and knew he had to strike now. This is purely MOO, I just don’t think we should close ourselves off to alternate perspectives on the intended target.

I’ve also even wondered if both KG and MM were the intended targets; they’re beautiful and inseparable best friends, the very definition of what BK cannot have. All the girls in that house were, and EC was a better man than he would ever be. BK had every reason, in his twisted mind, to be jealous of these kids. There is a motive there for each and every one of them.

Purely moo, again. Sorry for the rant.

Her car being there would have meant nothing to BK. It was new. He wouldn't have recognised it as hers.

Idaho murders: Kaylee Goncalves' Range Rover retrieved from city lot

A family lawyer retrieved Idaho murder victim Kaylee Goncalves' Range Rover on Thursday afternoon from a Moscow city storage lot.

www.fox13seattle.com

MOO

 

[PunishThenForgive]

Notes from the pretrial conference:

Hippler (with some paraphrasing):

If you think your ox has been gored, please just ask to approach the bench.

I’m sure by the end of the trial, we’ll have to replace the carpet from the trail leading from council to the bench, but that’s fine.

Can you imagine trying to keep a straight face throughout the trial?

I noticed Kohberger is quite the fidgeter. A three month trial may be torture for him.

@MeadowMuffin, I love your signature.

Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend.
Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.
Groucho Marx

Did you watch the Gray Hughes livestream? He occasionally superimposes cartoon Halloween masks (including Groucho’s) onto Kohberger’s head and a cartoon Santa next to Bill Thompson. It was certainly disconcerting to see the first image pop up while I scanned the recording, searching for the discussion about the surviving roommates.

 

[jepop]

True-crime fans seized on the Idaho killings. Their accusations derailed lives.

Across the internet, true-crime aficionados have become obsessed with all sorts of unsolved mysteries and crimes, poring over victims’ social media pages and analyzing news reports to try to crack cases. But in many cases, reckless theories emerge — shoving unsuspecting people into the national...

www.spokesman.com

True-crime fans seized on the Idaho killings. Their accusations derailed lives.​

"For any number of novice snoops, Kopacka’s death was suspicious. Accusers claimed that because he had allegedly threatened to kill his roommates, the veteran was capable of violence. They obsessed over Kopacka’s Facebook posts before his death – GPS coordinates, a quote about truth – until his alarmed family took down his profile. "

Moo, it's absolutely shameless what went down on sm after msm first reported on the deceased Mr K. I can't imagine what his family went through, and now it has raised its ugly head again.

And I do not blame AT or the denfense for this resurgence of allegations and speculation. Judge Hippler has rightly sealed all motions and responses concerning alt perp presentations by the defense and will continue to do so until such a time he finds anything that may be admissible at trial. This is on sm not the defense, just like it was before after MR K died. Jmo

 

[snooptroop88]

Finally watching Dateline episode. There's that thing DJ says about BK. They'd met briefly (and somewhat awkwardly, I guess) at the pool party. This DJ somehow runs into BK later, DJ was with a group hiking, BK was alone. The DJ says BK approached him like they were good friends, and the DJ didn't even know who BK was. jmo, that is sounding like a stalker, and like someone who develops "relationships" not based in reality.

Also, okay, Maddie Mogen's friend, the woman who gave MM the job in fashion/at clothing store-- this same woman notes at a different point in the program that she heard about Kohberger specifically from other employees at her clothing store?? Complaining about BK's grading. So... Is this telling me MM was working at the same place as some BK student/s?? That's looking like a little too small a world for me.

The Dateline theory loses me when they talk about XK running frantically down the stairs with BK in pursuit. But there was no yelling up the stairs, no screaming down the stairs? jmo, it's possible, but I would think pretty unlikely.

 

[PunishThenForgive]

Yes, hard to guess what the defense is doing behind the scenes to find a potential TODDI!

But my understanding is Judge Hippler, in accordance with legal statute, is not going to allow allegations into trial re TODDI ( as opposed to generic insinuations re SODDI) without a nexus. As of this moment the defense apparently made a proffer but provided neither a name or any evidence, IOWs the proffer was entirely insufficient. Moo

My take away from the hearing is the defense has until May 23rd to actually do it like it's meant to be done, prosecution has until June 6th ( IIRC ) to respond, and a hearing is currently set for the afternoon of June 18th to hear arguments.

Imo, Hippler could potentially cancel that hearing in the event that the defense again doesn't meet their minimal burden by May 23rd. We see how efficient he is and he's not going to waste more time over this. Seems he is being extra fair to the defense in extending out their deadline to May 23rd. Jmo

I don’t understand why Judge Hippler gave AT extra time for the proffer, which was due on the 14th. Same with the alibi.

AT continually promises things, then fails to deliver. She tries to come off as a student who just needs an executive functioning coach or tutor to pull up her grades, but in reality she’s only stalling and never intends to do the work.

IMOO

 

[PunishThenForgive]

Has this already been posted?

Kohberger trial thrown into jeopardy as judge cites major violation

The 30-year-old is scheduled to stand trial in August accused of the quadruple homicide of four University of Idaho students back in November 2022.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Brian Kohberger trial has been thrown into disarray as the judge reveals someone with intimate knowledge of the case has leaked sensitive details to the press.

The breach could make it harder to find impartial jurors for Kohberger's August trial over the alleged quadruple homicide of four University of Idaho students back in November 2022.

Judge Steven Hippler has ordered a new investigation as he seeks to discover the source behind the devastating leak.

In Anne Taylor’s dreams.

It’s like the Daily Mail’s sole purpose is to give YouTube content creators fodder for their channels.

 

[PunishThenForgive]

Same here. My husband , my grown kids, my in-laws, my closest friends---none of them know who Bryan Kohberger is.

I have told my daughter about the Moscow murders because I do try to keep her aware of the dangers surrounding her and her friends, etc. But she didn't watch Dateline.

But does your daughter watch horror flicks?

It’s so scary when our daughters and step-daughters and nieces and female students and younger sisters do things we would never do because of our immersion in true crime. We know exactly how depraved humans can be.

In contrast, a horror flick is too outlandish to cause fear in real life.

Perhaps suggest that your daughter watches Anna Kendrick’s Woman of the Hour? Now that’s a horror flick, but real. I couldn’t watch many of the scenes.

 

[iamshadow21]

But does your daughter watch horror flicks?

It’s so scary when our daughters and step-daughters and nieces and female students and younger sisters do things we would never do because of our immersion in true crime. We know exactly how depraved humans can be.

In contrast, a horror flick is too outlandish to cause fear in real life.

Perhaps suggest that your daughter watches Anna Kendrick’s Woman of the Hour? Now that’s a horror flick, but real. I couldn’t watch many of the scenes.

The thing is, though, this crime is not a cautionary tale. It's a bolt from the blue. There is nothing that the victims being 'more aware' could have done to change the outcome. In fact, we have heard that one was a websleuther herself.

How would being more aware of a crime like this help a young person? Wouldn't it just cause fear of something unlikely to happen, that is completely out of their control to prevent?

MOO

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I don’t understand why Judge Hippler gave AT extra time for the proffer, which was due on the 14th. Same with the alibi.

AT continually promises things, then fails to deliver. She tries to come off as a student who just needs an executive functioning coach or tutor to pull up her grades, but in reality she’s only stalling and never intends to do the work.

IMOO

I agree, to me it seems like this chronic stalling, deflecting, misdirection, that never comes to anything ought to be a breach of professional practice in any court - never mind one that involves such extreme violence and loss of life and where multiple families and the wider world are waiting on justice.

JMO MOO IANAL

 

[jepop]

I don’t understand why Judge Hippler gave AT extra time for the proffer, which was due on the 14th. Same with the alibi.

AT continually promises things, then fails to deliver. She tries to come off as a student who just needs an executive functioning coach or tutor to pull up her grades, but in reality she’s only stalling and never intends to do the work.

IMOO

I don't have a problem with it personally. He has everything under control in a way JJJ struggled with a little. I don't think another week is going to make any difference, if the D can't produce the goods they can't produce the goods. Ditto for any alibi defense where the D wants to enlist witnesses ( expert or otherwise). In both matters Hippler is exercising his allowable discretion and jmo he will have good reasons for doing so. I'd guess he is probably doing so in the name of fairness and impartiality, basically continuing to make the case as appeal proof as possible. Jmo

 

[girlhasnoname]

I don’t understand why Judge Hippler gave AT extra time for the proffer, which was due on the 14th. Same with the alibi.

AT continually promises things, then fails to deliver. She tries to come off as a student who just needs an executive functioning coach or tutor to pull up her grades, but in reality she’s only stalling and never intends to do the work.

IMOO

I think Judge Hammer Hippler is erring on the side of caution in a high profile DP case. No blatant instances for an appeal or retrial, which I personally am okay with, as long as the State has the proper time to investigate and prepare rebuttal.

JMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

Finally watching Dateline episode. There's that thing DJ says about BK. They'd met briefly (and somewhat awkwardly, I guess) at the pool party. This DJ somehow runs into BK later, DJ was with a group hiking, BK was alone. The DJ says BK approached him like they were good friends, and the DJ didn't even know who BK was. jmo, that is sounding like a stalker, and like someone who develops "relationships" not based in reality.

Also, okay, Maddie Mogen's friend, the woman who gave MM the job in fashion/at clothing store-- this same woman notes at a different point in the program that she heard about Kohberger specifically from other employees at her clothing store?? Complaining about BK's grading. So... Is this telling me MM was working at the same place as some BK student/s?? That's looking like a little too small a world for me.

The Dateline theory loses me when they talk about XK running frantically down the stairs with BK in pursuit. But there was no yelling up the stairs, no screaming down the stairs? jmo, it's possible, but I would think pretty unlikely.

The DJ guy had actually already met BK in Pullman (neighbor I believe) before the pool party and he was the one that had invited him IIRC. He also said BK totally dominated his time, and he had to tell him politely to bugger off, he was working.

BK, once again, not respecting boundaries and making people feel uncomfortable. I think the term used now is 'floodlighting' someone...beyond oversharing.

Wasn't it said that this was the first time BK made a drive by pass by the house on Kings Road?

Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. I didn't watch the episode, just have read snippets here and there.

JMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

I think the evidence supports that as well:

I think her presence threw him off his game, which is why he forgot the sheath (and possibly why he put it down in the first place).

I think he was angry she was there because she ruined his fantasy. This may have been why she has blunt force injuries in addition to stab wounds (it could have also been done out of practicality, or a mix).

Makes perfectly logical sense, so I don't know why I'm still riding the fence on this. I usually form an opinion based on the evidence we know of early on in most cases. This once has me going back and forth like a yoyo. hah

JMO

 

[jepop]

Makes perfectly logical sense, so I don't know why I'm still riding the fence on this. I usually form an opinion based on the evidence we know of early on in most cases. This once has me going back and forth like a yoyo. hah

JMO

Still with you ghnn on riding that fence!