4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #107

[snooptroop88]

Most likely theory in my mind based on Dateline (what I can piece together of Dateline so far) & general consensus (based on what I've seen online, w/some guesswork added in): BK came in through back 2nd floor slider/kitchen. Door may have been unlocked. He proceeded upstairs/3rd floor and murdered MM and KG, who were sound asleep and completely unaware of what was happening. Many are of the opinion he targeted MM. During this time on the 3rd floor, he'd secured Murphy/dog in KG's empty room. The activity either from Murphy in KG's room or/and of BK in Maddie's room alerted DM, whose bedroom is right beneath where this would have been occurring. While all of this is happening, we have DM hearing female voice, "There's someone here." (I do believe this is possibly XK, but I don't think she knows what to make of the situation and at this point isn't necessarily alarmed.) After murdering the two victims on the third floor (and forgetting his knife sheath in his frenzied state, probably having heard the "There's someone here"), BK proceeds quickly down the stairs (maybe this is what DM heard?) and quietly enters XK and EC's bedroom on 2nd floor. XK is on her feet, he strikes her, and she cries, staggers (maybe to the bloody chair?), probably struck so badly at this point she cannot scream. EC proceeds to murder Ethan. BK then gets into this carving (??) I'v seen mentioned (which is just another layer of horror), and as XK is dying, perhaps she is pleading for help and trying to talk to Ethan. This might be when BK says "It's okay, I'm going to help you." And perhaps he delivered a fully lethal blow at that point. XK falls (thud, could she have brought the chair down with her as she fell?), BK stalks out through the hallway. OR BK having finished all his horrible deeds himself sat in that chair before he left the room. DM sees him pass her room moving towards exit at the slider.

That's loosely what I'm putting together, based largely (not all the time) on consensus. (It's still all mixed together with speculation.) It seems possible it did happen this way, but I'm not at all sure it did. I'm not sure XK's fall creates the thud, or that she is the one that said someone's here. OR even that the 2nd floor slider was point of entry.

Also, am wondering. We can look up the layout for this house now. But since this house was a rental, there were (I would imagine) plenty of images of this house available (advertisements, etc?) online before BK committed his crimes.There might even have been floorplans available. Was he studying the layout just as we're doing now?

 

[Boxer]

I don't see how his car could be located where she would have been able to actually see him due to the layout of the yard and house, but she very well could have seen the car speed off and maybe seen a license plate number or partial.

If he parked along Queen there is angle which he could park and be seen from her window. It's an easy walk around to the slider.

 

[DisplacedDivaofthe6C]

Also some random weird things.
He arrived for the first loop by 1122 just as the moon crossed its meridian at 3:35am.
His birthday is 11/21/94.

Interesting...

 

[DisplacedDivaofthe6C]

Most likely theory in my mind based on Dateline (what I can piece together of Dateline so far) & general consensus (based on what I've seen online, w/some guesswork added in): BK came in through back 2nd floor slider/kitchen. Door may have been unlocked. He proceeded upstairs/3rd floor and murdered MM and KG, who were sound asleep and completely unaware of what was happening. Many are of the opinion he targeted MM. During this time on the 3rd floor, he'd secured Murphy/dog in KG's empty room. The activity either from Murphy in KG's room or/and of BK in Maddie's room alerted DM, whose bedroom is right beneath where this would have been occurring. While all of this is happening, we have DM hearing female voice, "There's someone here." (I do believe this is possibly XK, but I don't think she knows what to make of the situation and at this point isn't necessarily alarmed.) After murdering the two victims on the third floor (and forgetting his knife sheath in his frenzied state, probably having heard the "There's someone here"), BK proceeds quickly down the stairs (maybe this is what DM heard?) and quietly enters XK and EC's bedroom on 2nd floor. XK is on her feet, he strikes her, and she cries, staggers (maybe to the bloody chair?), probably struck so badly at this point she cannot scream. EC proceeds to murder Ethan. BK then gets into this carving (??) I'v seen mentioned (which is just another layer of horror), and as XK is dying, perhaps she is pleading for help and trying to talk to Ethan. This might be when BK says "It's okay, I'm going to help you." And perhaps he delivered a fully lethal blow at that point. XK falls (thud, could she have brought the chair down with her as she fell?), BK stalks out through the hallway. OR BK having finished all his horrible deeds himself sat in that chair before he left the room. DM sees him pass her room moving towards exit at the slider.

That's loosely what I'm putting together, based largely (not all the time) on consensus. (It's still all mixed together with speculation.) It seems possible it did happen this way, but I'm not at all sure it did. I'm not sure XK's fall creates the thud, or that she is the one that said someone's here. OR even that the 2nd floor slider was point of entry.

Also, am wondering. We can look up the layout for this house now. But since this house was a rental, there were (I would imagine) plenty of images of this house available (advertisements, etc?) online before BK committed his crimes.There might even have been floorplans available. Was he studying the layout just as we're doing now?

There are some good diagrams of the house I think Gray Hughes put some together recently on YouTube. The top levels (where K & M were) and the bottom level (where B was) were built on in phases to the original part of the house where DM and XK's rooms were. The bottom level was added in the early 2000s if I remember correctly.

 

[browneyes]

I'm close but I'm not a get into a 2 AM line person either. I like to sleep.

Yeah…..that too. No way.

 

[gremlin444]

Most likely theory in my mind based on Dateline (what I can piece together of Dateline so far) & general consensus (based on what I've seen online, w/some guesswork added in): BK came in through back 2nd floor slider/kitchen. Door may have been unlocked. He proceeded upstairs/3rd floor and murdered MM and KG, who were sound asleep and completely unaware of what was happening. Many are of the opinion he targeted MM. During this time on the 3rd floor, he'd secured Murphy/dog in KG's empty room. The activity either from Murphy in KG's room or/and of BK in Maddie's room alerted DM, whose bedroom is right beneath where this would have been occurring. While all of this is happening, we have DM hearing female voice, "There's someone here." (I do believe this is possibly XK, but I don't think she knows what to make of the situation and at this point isn't necessarily alarmed.) After murdering the two victims on the third floor (and forgetting his knife sheath in his frenzied state, probably having heard the "There's someone here"), BK proceeds quickly down the stairs (maybe this is what DM heard?) and quietly enters XK and EC's bedroom on 2nd floor. XK is on her feet, he strikes her, and she cries, staggers (maybe to the bloody chair?), probably struck so badly at this point she cannot scream. EC proceeds to murder Ethan. BK then gets into this carving (??) I'v seen mentioned (which is just another layer of horror), and as XK is dying, perhaps she is pleading for help and trying to talk to Ethan. This might be when BK says "It's okay, I'm going to help you." And perhaps he delivered a fully lethal blow at that point. XK falls (thud, could she have brought the chair down with her as she fell?), BK stalks out through the hallway. OR BK having finished all his horrible deeds himself sat in that chair before he left the room. DM sees him pass her room moving towards exit at the slider.

That's loosely what I'm putting together, based largely (not all the time) on consensus. (It's still all mixed together with speculation.) It seems possible it did happen this way, but I'm not at all sure it did. I'm not sure XK's fall creates the thud, or that she is the one that said someone's here. OR even that the 2nd floor slider was point of entry.

In addition to Dateline saying it, in one of the hearings or filings from the last two months the sliding door was stated as being the entry and exit point. I will try to find it tomorrow since I need to get to bed.

Dateline also stated the slider was unlocked when entered--I'm assuming that either came from testimony by the surviving roommates as to their habits or possibly that it had been broken for a while. A few days ago I posted an interview with Xana's dad from not too long after the murders (11/17/22) because we were looking to see where the confusion about X's mom saying the dad had changed the lock vs him saying "Xana had changed a lot."

‘She’s a tough kid’: Avondale father says University of Idaho student killed fought her attacker

The father is now struggling to understand how this could have happened.

www.azfamily.com

The [front] door locks with a number code. Every time you go, you have to go around the house because of the number code so they either knew that or went around and maybe found the slider door open,” he said.

To me, that sounds like it was common for visitors and perhaps even the residents of the 2nd and 3rd floors to just go around to the slider.

 

[PunishThenForgive]

I wonder how much exterior light was present while BK made his way to the slider. Here are photos taken after the murders, when a security guard was present 24/7:

A private security guard guards an off-campus home where four University of Idaho students were stabbed to death on Saturday, December 3, 2022 in Moscow, Idaho. Madison Mogen, Xana Kernodle, Ethan Chapin, and Kaylee Goncalves were named as the victims. (James Keivom for New York Post)

Everything is well-lit so the guard can monitor the area.

The patio is especially bright, so I assume the patio lamp is turned on, in addition to the hanging lights. (I have no idea why the side of the house is so bright.)

Here’s a screenshot from the daytime body-cam footage of Kaylee that shows the location of the patio lamp:

And this screenshot of night-time body cam footage shows the lit patio lamp:



Notice that the patio string lights aren’t present yet.

I can’t find a photo of the patio illuminated with the string lights only.

I think the roommates likely kept the exterior of their house quite dark after they went to bed. I remember reading/hearing how dark the area is at night and that some neighbors would wear headlamps to walk their dogs at night.

In the nighttime body cam footage, note the police officers’ use of flashlights in the screenshot above and in the one below, where Xana doesn’t even turn on the front door lamp while she’s being interviewed:


All IMOO, of course.

 

[DisplacedDivaofthe6C]

In addition to Dateline saying it, in one of the hearings or filings from the last two months the sliding door was stated as being the entry and exit point. I will try to find it tomorrow since I need to get to bed.

Dateline also stated the slider was unlocked when entered--I'm assuming that either came from testimony by the surviving roommates as to their habits or possibly that it had been broken for a while. A few days ago I posted an interview with Xana's dad from not too long after the murders (11/17/22) because we were looking to see where the confusion about X's mom saying the dad had changed the lock vs him saying "Xana had changed a lot."

‘She’s a tough kid’: Avondale father says University of Idaho student killed fought her attacker

The father is now struggling to understand how this could have happened.

www.azfamily.com

The [front] door locks with a number code. Every time you go, you have to go around the house because of the number code so they either knew that or went around and maybe found the slider door open,” he said.

To me, that sounds like it was common for visitors and perhaps even the residents of the 2nd and 3rd floors to just go around to the slider.

I think it is totally plausible poor XK did put up a fight BK was not expecting, as she had all those years of gymnastics and had to have been incredibly strong and in the literal fight of her life; the defensive wounds reported on her hands were harrowing with many deep cuts to her fingers.

As Ted Bundy bludgeoned his victims, SA'd them with various objects and savagely bit at least one of them, I would imagine he had just been so explosive with such pent-up rage when he finally got inside Chi O and started to beat the girls with that fire log because he had been on the run from his escape. That is what I feel BK may have instantly developed when he went into the house thinking he would have his way with MM as his intended target and was not expecting KG to also be in the same bed as MM, leading to the savage beating and stabbing of KG. Also, if XK did run up the stairs to see what was going on even more rage then for her being a potential witness, chasing after her and doing what he did and then the final rage inflicted on EC with the stabbing and recently reporting "carving" on his legs.

Given the recent reports of also of his search history for drugged or unconscious subjects makes me wonder if he would have wanted to go deeper like Ted Bundy when it finally did come out Ted was "visiting" his victims after their deaths. His stabbing of the victims was a BTK move...I wonder if he wanted to combine pages from both Bundy and BTK's playbooks.

 

[DisplacedDivaofthe6C]

A link to the paper he looked up written by the professor he belittled because she was not a native English as a first language speaker.

https://www.sfu.ca/~palys/crim862-Pedneault-TedBundyJustificatoryDiscourse.pdf?utm

 

[Boxer]

I wonder how much exterior light was present while BK made his way to the slider. Here are photos taken after the murders, when a security guard was present 24/7:

View attachment 586088

View attachment 586074
View attachment 586085


Everything is well-lit so the guard can monitor the area.

The patio is especially bright, so I assume the patio lamp is turned on, in addition to the hanging lights. (I have no idea why the side of the house is so bright.)

Here’s a screenshot from the daytime body-cam footage of Kaylee that shows the location of the patio lamp:

View attachment 586084And this screenshot of night-time body cam footage shows the lit patio lamp:

View attachment 586086

Notice that the patio string lights aren’t present yet.

I can’t find a photo of the patio illuminated with the string lights only.

I think the roommates likely kept the exterior of their house quite dark after they went to bed. I remember reading/hearing how dark the area is at night and that some neighbors would wear headlamps to walk their dogs at night.

In the nighttime body cam footage, note the police officers’ use of flashlights in the screenshot above and in the one below, where Xana doesn’t even turn on the front door lamp while she’s being interviewed:

View attachment 586090
All IMOO, of course.

It was a 77 % illuminating moon that night. 3:35am crossing the meridian. MOO reasonable visibility.

 

[PunishThenForgive]

And then there’s the question of how much interior light BK had.

Here is the famous TikTok video of the roommates acting as each other, which someone helpfully copied as a YouTube Short (just so I could access it—thank you!)

I can’t see any wall or ceiling lamps that might be controlled by the two visible light switches. Could the bright illumination of the living room be due to the massive strings of fairy lights alone? If so, I doubt the roommates would keep them on all night.

It appears they did keep the TV on all night, so that would provide some light:

View of a disconnected monitor through a window of an off-campus home where four University of Idaho students were stabbed to death on Thursday, December 1, 2022 in Moscow, Idaho. Madison Mogen, Xana Kernodle, Ethan Chapin, and Kaylee Goncalves were named as the victims. (James Keivom for New York Post)

As would the Good Vibes sign and the small string of fairy lights that wrap around a nearby table. Could the living room have been this light as while BK was wreaking havoc?

(EXCLUSIVE) A palm print on a window, and an evidence tag, is visible in front of a Good Vibes sign at an off-campus home where four University of Idaho students were stabbed to death on Thursday, December 1, 2022 in Moscow, Idaho. Madison Mogen, Xana Kernodle, Ethan Chapin, and Kaylee Goncalves were named as the victims. (James Keivom for New York Post)

Xana had to have some light to make her way to the kitchen and possibly eat her snack in the living room, after all.

IMOO, of course.

 

[Boxer]

And then there’s the question of how much interior light BK had.

Here is the famous TikTok video of the roommates acting as each other, which someone helpfully copied as a YouTube Short (just so I could access it—thank you!)

I can’t see any wall or ceiling lamps that might be controlled by the two visible light switches. Could the bright illumination of the living room be due to the massive strings of fairy lights alone? If so, I doubt the roommates would keep them on all night.

It appears they did keep the TV on all night, so that would provide some light:

View attachment 586097


As would the Good Vibes sign and the small string of fairy lights that wrap around a nearby table. Could the living room have been this light as while BK was wreaking havoc?

View attachment 586098


Xana had to have some light to make her way to the kitchen and possibly eat her snack in the living room, after all.

On both 3rd and second floor there were large "Good Times" neon signs. Probably random nightlights, electronic equipment lights etc.

 

[PunishThenForgive]

Also, am wondering. We can look up the layout for this house now. But since this house was a rental, there were (I would imagine) plenty of images of this house available (advertisements, etc?) online before BK committed his crimes.There might even have been floorplans available. Was he studying the layout just as we're doing now?

Well, the following website was available soon after the murders, so I suspect the generic house tour was available beforehand:

Virtual Tour of 1122 King Road, Moscow, Idaho

This, combined with the TikTok video I shared in my last post (copied as a YouTube short, showing the roommates imitating one another), along with the rest of the SM the roommates publicly (and abundantly) shared, should have given BK a real good feel for the house IMO.

 

[gremlin444]

And then there’s the question of how much interior light BK had.

Here is the famous TikTok video of the roommates acting as each other, which someone helpfully copied as a YouTube Short (just so I could access it—thank you!)

I can’t see any wall or ceiling lamps that might be controlled by the two visible light switches. Could the bright illumination of the living room be due to the massive strings of fairy lights alone? If so, I doubt the roommates would keep them on all night.

It appears they did keep the TV on all night, so that would provide some light:

View attachment 586097


As would the Good Vibes sign and the small string of fairy lights that wrap around a nearby table. Could the living room have been this light as while BK was wreaking havoc?

That is Kaylee's window that looks out on the parking lot in front of the house. You can see the window air conditioner in the left window.

IMHO, at a minimum the squiggly mess of fairylights behind the couch would have been left on--not in an easy place to unplug. The Good Vibes lights likely too.

When you've got so many people in and out, how would anyone know when to turn the fairy lights/lighted signs off for the night in the common rooms. Just easier to leave them on--plus it would make it easier for DM to walk to the bathroom next to XK's room for those middle of the night calls of nature.

I can't sleep with fairy lights on in my bedroom, but my 22 yo and all his friends leave theirs on all the time.

 

[concernedcitizen706]

Catching up here. Is a theory being bandied about that Kaylee may have gone upstairs with the dog (maybe even after being out with him) around 4 AM (which could be 3:36 am), then came back down and said "Someone is here", then went back up and passed out in Maddie's bed? Like maybe calling to Xana that someone is here because she knew Xana had ordered door dash. I'd be curious to know how long between upstairs and downstairs, and if it was a louder "Someone's here" calling to Xana could maker sense. Even starting up the stairs, then sees Xana (because maybe she got a text that her DD was there) and calls to her that someone is here.

I had originally thought Kaylee had been passed out next to Maddie for a bit, but after finding out she was backed in a corner and well beaten, I was reconsidering that.

Yeah if DM is insistent this was around 4:00 a.m., I'm thinking Kaylee saw the doordash driver from her window because some theorize he came to the back slider. And then she went downstairs and she was the one who let them in, and maybe texted xana to go get her food in the kitchen and then Kaylee went back upstairs. Maybe that's when she knocked on Maddie's door and went into the bed with her. However didn't they say she walked up the stairs and then ran down the stairs? If she was getting doordash, it would be the opposite.

 

[PunishThenForgive]

It was a 77 % illuminating moon that night. 3:35am crossing the meridian. MOO reasonable visibility.

<modsnip: Linking to random blogs/podcasts is not allowed>. I also like the www.wunderground.com for its detailed historical weather data (which I share below).

Although the (waning gibbous) moon was quite bright during the early morning hours of November 13, 2022, it was cloudy throughout:



If Mr. Moon and Stars wanted more light, he should have ventured to Moscow one week earlier, when the moon was almost full (waxing gibbous with 98.5% illumination), the condition was fair*, and it was a bit warmer:



Of course, Kaylee wasn’t there that weekend.

---

*"Fair" generally means less than 3/8 (or about 40%) of the sky covered by clouds, especially low-level clouds.

 

[Boxer]

Ah, you beat me to it! I see you are a fellow moon nerd. Are you a fan of the website, www.timeanddate.com? I sure am. I also like the website, www.wunderground.com for its detailed historical weather data.

Although the (waning gibbous) moon was quite bright during the early morning hours of November 13, 2022, it was cloudy throughout:

View attachment 586110View attachment 586112

If Mr. Moon and Stars wanted more light, he should have ventured to Moscow one week earlier, when the moon was almost full (waxing gibbous with 98.5% illumination), the condition was fair*, and it was a bit warmer:

View attachment 586113View attachment 586114

Of course, Kaylee wasn’t there that weekend.

*"Fair" generally means less than 3/8 (or about 40%) of the sky covered by clouds, especially low-level clouds

The data sites are great, even Delphi historical creek levels were available.

MOO as for BK, birthday was coming up so he went to go see and ended up doing it. I think ice fog is a bit luminous, plus he had his high school Ranger aspirations so probably knew how to get and preserve his night vision.

 

[PunishThenForgive]

If he parked along Queen there is angle which he could park and be seen from her window. It's an easy walk around to the slider.

Where on Queen?

 

[PunishThenForgive]

I think it is totally plausible poor XK did put up a fight BK was not expecting, as she had all those years of gymnastics and had to have been incredibly strong and in the literal fight of her life; the defensive wounds reported on her hands were harrowing with many deep cuts to her fingers.

As Ted Bundy bludgeoned his victims, SA'd them with various objects and savagely bit at least one of them, I would imagine he had just been so explosive with such pent-up rage when he finally got inside Chi O and started to beat the girls with that fire log because he had been on the run from his escape. That is what I feel BK may have instantly developed when he went into the house thinking he would have his way with MM as his intended target and was not expecting KG to also be in the same bed as MM, leading to the savage beating and stabbing of KG. Also, if XK did run up the stairs to see what was going on even more rage then for her being a potential witness, chasing after her and doing what he did and then the final rage inflicted on EC with the stabbing and recently reporting "carving" on his legs.

Given the recent reports of also of his search history for drugged or unconscious subjects makes me wonder if he would have wanted to go deeper like Ted Bundy when it finally did come out Ted was "visiting" his victims after their deaths. His stabbing of the victims was a BTK move...I wonder if he wanted to combine pages from both Bundy and BTK's playbooks.

As awful as the murders were, at least BK didn’t take Maddie away to a second location, like his idol TB did to his first (confirmed) victim. I can’t imagine a worse fate.

 

[sar2them1984]

Apologies, I can't remember offhand. Were there any local/neighbouring cameras which captured the house at all?