4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #107

[PunishThenForgive]

That was someone on here joking/being funny.

I didn’t know whether they were being serious either. I won’t put anything past AT.

 

[Arkay]

I would imagine they knew the whole time they were going to bring him up but they brought him up at the last moment because they wanted to see what else they can get to work before they brought up the other suspect.

IANAL, but as an outsider looking in, this strikes me as very deficient lawyering.

If this were the case, that the defense was holding on to what should be a BOMBSHELL, then they should have been READY NOW with their alleged evidence.

If AT and company had this info “the whole time,” why did they not have their ducks in a row, prepared with actual and credible evidence, rather than more unsupported verbiage?

It strikes me as a last-ditch utterance to give the defense time to scout around,
eeny-meeny-miney-mo style, in search of somebody, anybody, who isn’t Bryan.

Sure, let’s pick a dead man who cannot avail himself of his Constitutional right to face his accusers.

I don’t buy it, at all. Even the Odinist garbage in Indiana at least had a narrative, false though it was, but here there is nothing concrete. Just AT attempting to spin straw into gold.

Too late.

IMO

 

[Megnut]

IANAL, but as an outsider looking in, this strikes me as very deficient lawyering.

If this were the case, that the defense was holding on to what should be a BOMBSHELL, then they should have been READY NOW with their alleged evidence.

If AT and company had this info “the whole time,” why did they not have their ducks in a row, prepared with actual and credible evidence, rather than more unsupported verbiage?

It strikes me as a last-ditch utterance to give the defense time to scout around,
eeny-meeny-miney-mo style, in search of somebody, anybody, who isn’t Bryan.

Sure, let’s pick a dead man who cannot avail himself of his Constitutional right to face his accusers.

I don’t buy it, at all. Even the Odinist garbage in Indiana at least had a narrative, false though it was, but here there is nothing concrete. Just AT attempting to spin straw into gold.

Too late.

IMO

Spinning straw into... straw.

 

[INfisherman]

Spinning straw into... straw.

Don’t worry, AT has tale spinster help coming anytime she wants it!


MOO

 

[MassGuy]

Question...

Who here has read Howard Blum's book? J. Reuben Appelman's book?

I'm going to now grab the new one on pre-order - By Vicky Ward and James Patterson, though I prefer audio books.

There's also a 50 page, self-published something...I refuse to call it a book after reading the blurb about the book by a Rebecca Rackley.


Thought...

As this issue continues to unfold with the breach in the sealed materials, in the forward of his book Howard Blum specifically addresses his refusal to pay sources. But, now named as a special correspondent with NBC and Dateline where were his disclaimers?

Also, JMO, I was disappointed in Dateline's various "from a source close to the investigation-esq" type introductions that peppered the entire show with an "in your face" vibe. It pains me to be disappointed with Keith Morrison, but I am. Further found myself incredibly sad the Dateline episode was aired the night before Idaho's graduation where many of the kids involved or close with the victims, extended friend groups, etc. were graduating, to include the surviving Chapin siblings.

Not a fan of Blum, but paying sources is different than being paid for your knowledge gleaned from those sources.

As for the language used in that broadcast, I think that was important in that the viewer be informed where this information is coming from, so they can assign a level of confidence in regards to its veracity.

The timing was unfortunate, but it's "May sweeps."

 

[PunishThenForgive]

Total spanner.

If there was even kind of a xhance someone else commit this crime, AT would have lead with it, a year ago.

She apparently didn't even name this third party! The judge had to teach her how to write a third party motion.

Will she have the nerve to? Someone with a mental health issue who has no linkage to 1122, no evidence he was anywhere near there, and more, LE would have investigated him, and I'll bet he has something BK does not -- an alibi for 4am on 11/13.

Hippler put AT on notice (actually it's the other defense attorney who has been working on this) -- that they have like a week to name a name and provide actual, admissible evidence that links him in any way to that house, that morning.

Do they even have a table left to pound on?

jmo

And yet The Daily Mail immediately published this article:

Idaho murders BOMBSHELL as Bryan Kohberger names another suspect

It’s ridiculous. When did she name anyone?

For the past two plus years AT has apparently been too busy to review the evidence OR look for other suspects OR come up with a decent alibi OR educate herself about autism.

IMO

 

[Arkay]

For the past two plus years AT has apparently been too busy to review the evidence OR look for other suspects OR come up with a decent alibi OR educate herself about autism.

Exactly.

Furthermore, despite her claims that there is too much documentation for her to go through, we all know that she took on another case concurrent with Bryan’s. This, while she claims she doesn’t want her underlings to assist her because she prefers to do it all herself.

Priorities, AT.

IMO, the only thing that will help Bryan is an actual, verifiable, credible, supported alibi. With receipts.

I think the only circus act AT has left is if the stars in the sky land on the witness stand, to testify that they saw Bryan harmlessly gazing at them that night.

IMO

 

[PunishThenForgive]

Exactly.

Furthermore, despite her claims that there is too much documentation for her to go through, we all know that she took on another case concurrent with Bryan’s. This, while she claims she doesn’t want her underlings to assist her because she prefers to do it all herself.

Priorities, AT.

IMO, the only thing that will help Bryan is an actual, verifiable, credible, supported alibi. With receipts.

I think the only circus act AT has left is if the stars in the sky land on the witness stand, to testify that they saw Bryan harmlessly gazing at them that night.

IMO

The main thing that would help AT is to have a client who didn’t do it.

IMO

 

[PunishThenForgive]

Which part can I help with? Self-authenticating in the vernacular means it speaks for itself. Self-authenticating evidence doesn't require separate testimony or evidence to prove its authenticity. It's video of a car on a certain date. Even if it did require some kind of proof of authenticity, under the rule noted it doesn't need live testimony, a certification of authenticity will be acceptable.

Defense would need to prove these are not self authenticating pieces of evidence if they want to challenge them as such.

The point I saw was that even if the 1112 video was not on the list for self authenticating, it could be used having live testimony to go with it. Not self authenticating, so not on that list. From what I understood reading the various rules of evidence.

THANK YOU!

 

[PunishThenForgive]

Hmm. What if it could be proven the information was leaked before the 2023 gag order and someone not covered by the gag order held onto it until now? Or Date line sat on it until now?

From your mouth to God’s ears.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

Question...

Who here has read Howard Blum's book? J. Reuben Appelman's book?

I've read neither, but I admire Appelman's book on the Oakland County Child Killer murders.

 

[stemkb]

The Daily Mail article was almost entirely pre-written, with the author waiting for a malleable statement (or "hook") to emerge from the hearing to crown the piece. Not dissimilar to the "obit treatment" where you write an obituary to a notable, elderly person well in advance, minus immediate details, then fill in the blanks upon death. They could have led with protocol surrounding dangerous weapons ("the knife") or violations of the gag order, but here the author chose to go with "Idaho murders BOMBSHELL as Bryan Kohberger names another suspect."

In the UK, the Daily Mail is viewed by much of the population with disdain, and for good reason.

 

[MassGuy]

The Daily Mail article was almost entirely pre-written, with the author waiting for a malleable statement (or "hook") to emerge from the hearing to crown the piece. Not dissimilar to the "obit treatment" where you write an obituary to a notable, elderly person well in advance, minus immediate details, then fill in the blanks upon death. They could have led with protocol surrounding dangerous weapons ("the knife") or violations of the gag order, but here the author chose to go with "Idaho murders BOMBSHELL as Bryan Kohberger names another suspect."

In the UK, the Daily Mail is viewed by much of the population with disdain, and for good reason.

Oh, we know exactly what they are and what they do. The only thing they're good for is photos, and the occasional poorly-written original reporting.

 

[DisplacedDivaofthe6C]

I recently finished the novel The Frozen River for my bookclub, and the heroine, Martha Ballard (a late-eighteenth century Maine midwife) discussed having to wait until the ground thawed to bury a person.

I wonder if the ground was frozen on November 13 between Moscow and Lewiston, ID, making it difficult for BK to bury his kill kit.

What about the local ponds? Were they already frozen, removing that potential dumping option as well?

Another major character in The Frozen River was unsurprisingly a river—the Kennebec. In the novel’s opening scene, the river starts to freeze, fingers of ice creeping around the face of the murder victim.

Idaho’s Snake River apparently starts freezing in late November, but did it freeze earlier than usual in 2022? Or was it the only option available to BK to rid himself of damning evidence?

So the weather was unusually cold for that time. I do recall seeing some of the self-authenticating evidence pertaining to the outdoor temperature and visibility in that area.

Where he went after leaving the King Road residence was predominantly fields, wheat fields, but extremely dark when there is no illumination other than the occasional house, shop or other vehicle. But at that time of the morning there would still be some human activity stirring with chores and animals to be taken care of. I cannot think of a decent body of water that is close where he could have thrown the various items he wanted to dispose of in the vicinity of where he was traveling. Paradise Creek between Moscow and Pullman is somewhat developed with a walking/biking trail and not super deep. Stopping and trying to bury the items would not be feasible really IMO because there really would be no way to obscure yourself and the items would have to be buried deep so as to not be plowed or tilled up when the farmers go to working and harvesting in their fields. There's been 2 harvests now passed, a seeding to be harvested in later this summer/early fall and multiple hay cuttings in the area with nothing discovered, or at least made public.

Honestly, I feel given the trip he made to the LC Valley later in the day, he threw everything he wanted to be rid of--knife, clothes at minimum--off the Red Wolf Bridge into the Snake River. The Snake River, fed by the Clearwater River in Idaho at Lewiston is a natural barrier between the border of Idaho and Washington and the Twin Cities of Lewiston, ID and Clarkston, WA (the Snake goes on to flow into the Columbia and then into the Pacific for those not familiar with the geography ). The other areas he was traced to in Clarkston is down by the Snake River as well, coming off of a series of frontage roads and an industrial area, which would possibly allow for somewhere to surveil the river as well. If he were to move back toward Idaho and the waterfront, again, that is a more developed area with a levee parkway, walking and exercise areas that are used year-round, and would be difficult to get anything thrown into the river from the banks vs. a bridge.

There have been other cases over the years where evidence has been thrown into the Snake River and not readily recovered, probably the most notable:

PREVIEW: Secrets of the Snake River

The disappearance of a young mother leads to a massive search across the Pacific Northwest. With an estranged husband, ex-boyfriend and a suspicious neighbor all in the picture, authorities believe there are a few potential suspects.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[DisplacedDivaofthe6C]

I've read neither, but I admire Appelman's book on the Oakland County Child Killer murders.

I'll have to check that one out. Thanks!

 

[PunishThenForgive]

So the weather was unusually cold for that time. I do recall seeing some of the self-authenticating evidence pertaining to the outdoor temperature and visibility in that area.

Where he went after leaving the King Road residence was predominantly fields, wheat fields, but extremely dark when there is no illumination other than the occasional house, shop or other vehicle. But at that time of the morning there would still be some human activity stirring with chores and animals to be taken care of. I cannot think of a decent body of water that is close where he could have thrown the various items he wanted to dispose of in the vicinity of where he was traveling. Paradise Creek between Moscow and Pullman is somewhat developed with a walking/biking trail and not super deep. Stopping and trying to bury the items would not be feasible really IMO because there really would be no way to obscure yourself and the items would have to be buried deep so as to not be plowed or tilled up when the farmers go to working and harvesting in their fields. There's been 2 harvests now passed, a seeding to be harvested in later this summer/early fall and multiple hay cuttings in the area with nothing discovered, or at least made public.

Honestly, I feel given the trip he made to the LC Valley later in the day, he threw everything he wanted to be rid of--knife, clothes at minimum--off the Red Wolf Bridge into the Snake River. The Snake River, fed by the Clearwater River in Idaho at Lewiston is a natural barrier between the border of Idaho and Washington and the Twin Cities of Lewiston, ID and Clarkston, WA (the Snake goes on to flow into the Columbia and then into the Pacific for those not familiar with the geography ). The other areas he was traced to in Clarkston is down by the Snake River as well, coming off of a series of frontage roads and an industrial area, which would possibly allow for somewhere to surveil the river as well. If he were to move back toward Idaho and the waterfront, again, that is a more developed area with a levee parkway, walking and exercise areas that are used year-round, and would be difficult to get anything thrown into the river from the banks vs. a bridge.

There have been other cases over the years where evidence has been thrown into the Snake River and not readily recovered, probably the most notable:

PREVIEW: Secrets of the Snake River

The disappearance of a young mother leads to a massive search across the Pacific Northwest. With an estranged husband, ex-boyfriend and a suspicious neighbor all in the picture, authorities believe there are a few potential suspects.

www.nbcnews.com

Wow, thank you so, so much. I love these details that only a local would know. Idaho is like a different world to me. You should write a novel.

According to the PC affidavit, we know BK was in Lewiston ID at 12:36 pm to do a little shopping. Then between 5:36 pm to 8:30 pm, his phone stopped reporting to the network for the second time. Perhaps he returned to Lewiston. Why? To dispose of evidence in the dark.

I didn’t realize that Lewiston is the port city for Idaho, so the Snake River must be deep and wide there. I also didn’t realize it gets dark so early in Idaho in mid-November. In Lewiston on Sunday, November 13, 2022, the sun set at 4:26 pm and civil twilight ended at 4:49 pm. (Clocks changed backward by one hour the week before.)

So perhaps BK evaluated the situation in Lewiston and made a plan by daylight, then returned to Lewiston in the dark to execute his plan.

Here’s the Red Wolf Crossing Bridge in Lewiston, ID:



There appears to be no break down lane on the bridge, so if your theory is true, BK had to make a very quick stop to throw over the incriminating evidence. The bridge doesn’t look too crowded by day, but what about Sunday afternoon and evening?

I wonder how he packaged the evidence to prevent it from getting trapped on the river banks. Maybe he just threw the knife into the river and burned the remaining items.

But where could he burn anything? Gray Hughes films himself driving along BK’s expected route back to Pullman from Moscow, and there appears to be nowhere to hide. And in the dark, a fire would draw even more attention to BK.

Boy do I want to watch the Dateline episode, whose preview you linked.

Thanks again!

 

[Boxer]

MOO I think he had a hole ready, dug in the light of some advance day deep and not a place that gets plowed, where he went for the gap on the way to Moscow, to check on things, and where he went after on the way south before Blaine where there is also an approximately 15 minute gap.
I hope they walked all possible routes within 15 min gap with dogs.

 

[PunishThenForgive]

MOO he had a hole ready, and that's where he went for the gap on the way to Moscow, to check on things, and where he went after on the way south before Blaine where there is also an approximately 15 minute gap.

But is it easy to dig a deep hole at that time of year? And how could he dig it without being noticed? What about the danger of the items being dug up during plowing?

 

[Boxer]

But is it easy to dig a deep hole at that time of year? And how could he dig it without being noticed? What about the danger of the items being dug up during plowing?

MOO Could have been dug in summer. A hidden hole for his stuff, in a tree line or back of a pullout, safe from plows with board and dirt on top. Winter snow would cover till spring.

 

[PunishThenForgive]

MOO Could have been dug in summer. A hidden hole for his stuff, in a tree line or back of a pullout, safe from plows with board and dirt on top. Winter snow would cover till spring.

Yes, I think that would work!