4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #107

[otto]

I don't see how it is proven that he intended to kill Maddie or Maddie only..there were cars parked there he knew multiple people lived there.

Speculation about plans beyond killing Maddie cannot be proven, therefore will not be mentioned.

It is proven that Maddie is the targeted victim because as soon as Kohberger entered the house through the kitchen door, he went straight to her bedroom. He brought a deadly knife that he intended to use, because he did do that. That much can be proven.

Kaylee had moved out, so Kohberger did not expect to find her in Maddie's bedroom. It's unlikely that he planned to kill her since she no longer lived there. She was a witness, so he killed her.

We know Xana was awake due to the food delivery. Xana was killed in the doorway, or near the doorway, of her bedroom. The roommate in the bedroom at the bottom of the stairs heard "someone's here."

Xana was killed as a witness. Because Ethan was in the bedroom where Xana was killed, Ethan was also killed to eliminate a witness.

That's all that can be proven, and who really cares whether the plan was to mass murder, or home invasion assault and murder one young female student. Kohberger wants us to believe he is a mastermind mass murderer, but why should we believe that?

 

[arielilane]

@kfixler


I spoke this afternoon with @johnrobertsFox of @AmericaRpts to offer the latest from the #Idaho4 #BryanKohberger murder case after last week's hearing.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1924537931232125140

 

[otto]

I feel like he might want to be remembered as the best version of all of the big name murderers. He studied them, probably decided what he determined to be flaws in their plans, and wanted to correct their mistakes and proudly sit on the top of the heap.

I agree completely. He wants to be a big shot in the world of serial and mass murderers, but he isn't. He a stupid man who entered a home in the middle of the night to assault and murder one woman. He was so careless and disorganized with his plan that he went on to murder his intended victim and three witnesses in the span of 15 minutes. He then ran away as fast as he could.

His plan went completely sideways the moment he entered Maddie's room and found Kaylee with Maddie. Whatever plans he had for Maddie most likely included more than murder. He couldn't cope with two women, so he instantly murdered both of them.

 

[minazoe]

I'm just not vibing on speculation. you could be 100 percent right on Maddie, but we really don't know what he knew going in the house..he could have been stalking them , he could have seen them together earlier...there were parked cars..I just don't vibe with collateral victims. I think the victims were whoever he could get his hands on.

 

[JenniD]

No... BUT...... if that data is available... it will show when his car stops AND when he ACCELERATED (presumably) leaving the crime scene. That is another 1 in a million thing for his team to try to explain away.

I previously posted about the Sydney Loofe trial where a detective was able to use cell phone data to map exact route and stops of Aubrey trail to within 40 ft of the remains. Aubrey Trail drive a Ford 500-2005-2007 which had no gos. The tracking was determined strictly from cell phone locations

 

[concernedcitizen706]

OK so just because BK “says” this is what happened doesn’t mean it’s going to make it into the trial for the jury to even consider as reasonable doubt (see below for explanation). By the way, this applys to any alternative perpetrator(s) the D name and good luck to them whether/if they name the deceased veteran BK, or any other person the combined LE task force has already examined and cleared/ruled out.

At any rate, the fact is per Judge Hippler’s order, AT must provide something more substantive than ‘my client says this is what happened’ and baseless allegations against an alternative perp to the court by this Friday, May 23rd. And be prepared to argue for its admissibility before the court/Judge at a hearing set in early June. Judge Hippler will then enter his ruling on it aka decides if it will be allowed in as admissible evidence for trial.
If Judge H rules as admissible, imo BK will have to take the stand to explain what happened which opens him up to cross examination by the state and oh my geeee or as we say around here in New England, woahhhh Nellie!!, I’d love a front row seat to see that!

Further, AT can claim she got the lead/tip from the state’s discovery but I’d also imagine she’d have been told early on by her client ‘this is what happened’ and so why has she waited over 2 years to present it to the court?!?! I really think this is all a smokescreen and last ditch effort by the D at the 11th hour, and that the so called lead/tip on alternative perpetrator scenario(s) is coming from SM/Youtube internet crank speculation/conspiracy r/t a name(s) that is/are already in the state’s discovery as having been looked at/examined and ruled out long ago by LE task force, and imo the Judge isn’t stupid, knows about and on to all the conspiracy nutter stuff being spewed and regurgitated across the interwebs.

I’m pretty sure if my hunch is correct, and AT submits conspiracy manufactured non-evidence and argues before the court for its admissibility, she is not only going to look foolish, she will lose aka Judge will issue ruling against as not admissible for trial and that will be the end of it as far as the court is concerned. But I’m sure it won’t stop the unscrupulous SM/internet cranks from continuing to spew conspiracies and blame, shame and defame innocent victims and other innocent people on the periphery of the case, sadly and unfortunately.

IMHOO

ETA-clarification

That's true it will have to be more than him just saying that someone else was involved.

On the other hand, I direct you to the past case of Caylee Anthony. Everyone thought that was a slam dunk case too. Where she was on trial for murdering her little daughter by taping her mouth and suffocating her and then dumping the body in woods near their house. But the defense brought up a whole scenario that Caylee's father sexually abused caylee and that caylee's little daughter accidentally drowned in the pool and caylee was afraid of her father and that's why she never told anybody. And there was no evidence to support that, it was completely made up. And it worked. Caylee got off the charges. So if it worked in that case, who's to say it won't work in this case? He already has a bunch of pro burgers out there.

 

[iamshadow21]

That's true it will have to be more than him just saying that someone else was involved.

On the other hand, I direct you to the past case of Caylee Anthony. Everyone thought that was a slam dunk case too. Where she was on trial for murdering her little daughter by taping her mouth and suffocating her and then dumping the body in woods near their house. But the defense brought up a whole scenario that Caylee's father sexually abused caylee and that caylee's little daughter accidentally drowned in the pool and caylee was afraid of her father and that's why she never told anybody. And there was no evidence to support that, it was completely made up. And it worked. Caylee got off the charges. So if it worked in that case, who's to say it won't work in this case? He already has a bunch of pro burgers out there.

Caylee was the victim.

 

[SteveP]

RSBM

Hmm. Okay I haven't really thought about it that deeply, but I'll try to come up with something here.

Well we definitely know that BK changed because we have the testimony of BF seeing him change.

Can you point me to that testimony from BF? I must have missed it. I only recall some tabloid claim that she may have seen something like that.

 

[concernedcitizen706]

I think we would have heard, and the DD order and driver would not have been dismissed so easily early on, if Xana's phone didn't show her ordering the doordash that arrived. MOO

We'll see.

 

[concernedcitizen706]

Tunnel vision occurs when investigators (or defence lawyers) pick a theory, or suspect, and build a case around that person (theory) while undervaluing evidence that contradicts that theory.

Correct investigation methods are based on following the evidence, regardless of where it leads.

Kohberger was arrested as a result of following the evidence. A specific white vehicle was seen circling the house on the night of the murders. CCTV footage was used to track that vehicle before and after the murders. Specific details about the vehicle (make, model, year, missing front licence plate) were used to narrow the suspect list. The vehicle was identified. The owner was investigated. DNA from the owner matched evidence (sheath) left at the murder scene. The item (related to murder weapon) containing DNA evidence was directly connected to the suspect.

Theories about alternate suspects are based on tunnel vision. That is, a suspect is chosen and a theory is concocted based on wrapping vague evidence around that suspect while ignoring evidence that does not support the theory.

"Tunnel vision in the criminal justice context can be described as a tendency of participants in the system, such as police or prosecutors, to focus on a particular theory of a case and to dismiss or undervalue evidence which contradicts that theory. This mental process leads to “…unconscious filtering in of evidence that will ‘build a case’ against a particular suspect, while ignoring or suppressing evidence respecting the same suspect that tends to point away from guilt.”​

...​

​

Confirmation bias is a powerful psychological process that causes an individual to unconsciously prefer information that supports a conclusion that they have already settled on and to disregard or be overly sceptical about information that contradicts that conclusion."​

Innocence at Stake - Chapter 2 - PPSC

Department of Justice Canada's Internet site

www.ppsc-sppc.gc.ca

Well not exactly sure what your post has to do with my post, but in general I agree with you.

 

[otto]

I'm just not vibing on speculation. you could be 100 percent right on Maddie, but we really don't know what he knew going in the house..he could have been stalking them , he could have seen them together earlier...there were parked cars..I just don't vibe with collateral victims. I think the victims were whoever he could get his hands on.

It's speculation that Kohberger intended to murder Kaylee, since she had moved out. It's speculation that he intended to murder Xana, since her boyfriend's vehicle was in the parking lot. It's speculation that he intended to murder a male guest because he had no way of knowing that he was there.

What is known as fact is that Kohberger entered the house and went directly to Maddie's bedroom, where he very likely expected to find her alone. He brought with him a knife, and then used the knife to kill her in her bed. He might not have killed her right away had she been alone, but we don't know. We only know he entered her bedroom with a knife and used that knife to kill her.

He killed a second person, Kaylee, who did not live at the house. It's speculation that he intended to kill someone who was not expected to be there.

He killed a roommate who was awake and said "someone's here". She was found on the floor, not in bed. She was awake and moving around the house while Kohberger was upstairs murdering Maddie. It's speculation that he intended to kill someone who happened to be awake at 4 a.m.

"OFC Smith directed me down the hallway to the west bedroom on the second floor, which I later learned (through Xana's driver's license and other personal belongings found in the room) was Xana Kernodle's, hereafter "Kernodle" room. Just before this room there was a bathroom door on the south wall of the hallway.

As I approached the room, I could see a body, later identified as Kernodle's, laying on the floor. Kernodle was deceased with wounds which appeared to have been caused by an edged weapon." (p. 1)

"D.M. stated she originally went to sleep in her bedroom on the southeast side of the second floor. D.M. stated she was awoken at approximately 4:00 a.m. by what she stated sounded like Goncalves playing with her dog in one of the upstairs bedrooms, which were located on the third floor. A short time later, D.M. said she heard who she thought was Goncalves say something to the effect of "there's someone here." A review of records obtained from a forensic download of Kernodle's phone showed this could also have been Kernodle as her cellular phone indicated she was likely awake and using the TikTok app at approximately 4:12 a.m.

D.M. stated she looked out of her bedroom but did not see anything when she heard the comment about someone being in the house. D,M. stated she opened her door a second time when she heard what she thought was crying coming from Kernodle's room. D.M. then said she heard a male voice say something to the effect of "it's ok, I'm going to help you." (p.4)​

122922 Affidavit - Exhibit A - Statement of Brett Payne Seeking Arrest of Bryan C. Kohberger

www.documentcloud.org

 

[PunishThenForgive]

Thank you! That's very strange. Do we know whether he concocted that for a course, for a job, or because he thinks he knows what to do?

His thinking appears to be anything but linear sequential, and I suspect that linear sequential is a strict requirement when processing a crime scene.

I wonder if he wrote the essay under time pressure since it was a final. He submitted it in May 2020, so I believe he would have been a senior undergraduate. IMO the paper has all the hallmarks of an essay written the day (and night, and early morning) before it’s due. Because it was a long paper, he ran out of time to do any polishing at all.

Since his grad school prof Bolger claimed BK was a brilliant student, he must have upped his game during the next two years and learned the value of fine-tuning a paper via multiple drafts.

I might add, though, that the guys on the Police Off the Cuff podcast, at least one of whom taught undergrad college courses in the past, thought the essay was terrific. He especially liked the bullet points since they made it easy to follow!

Try reading a technical report in a biology journal and you’ll see some mighty fine writing.

My point is that not every profession cares about writing style, valuing substance more. I wish they did because it’s positively painful for me to read bad writing.

 

[otto]

Of the 6 people sleeping the house on the night of the murders, there were 4 roommates and 2 guests.

Two roommates and 2 guests were murdered. The other two roommates, one of whom stood in the bedroom doorway when Kohberger walked by, were unharmed.

If he went there to murder all the roommates, he got it completely wrong ... or rather speculation that he went there to murder the 4 roommates does not line up with facts.

 

[gremlin444]

True-crime fans seized on the Idaho killings. Their accusations derailed lives.

Across the internet, true-crime aficionados have become obsessed with all sorts of unsolved mysteries and crimes, poring over victims’ social media pages and analyzing news reports to try to crack cases. But in many cases, reckless theories emerge — shoving unsuspecting people into the national...

www.spokesman.com

True-crime fans seized on the Idaho killings. Their accusations derailed lives.​

"For any number of novice snoops, Kopacka’s death was suspicious. Accusers claimed that because he had allegedly threatened to kill his roommates, the veteran was capable of violence. They obsessed over Kopacka’s Facebook posts before his death – GPS coordinates, a quote about truth – until his alarmed family took down his profile. "

 

[otto]

True-crime fans seized on the Idaho killings. Their accusations derailed lives.

Across the internet, true-crime aficionados have become obsessed with all sorts of unsolved mysteries and crimes, poring over victims’ social media pages and analyzing news reports to try to crack cases. But in many cases, reckless theories emerge — shoving unsuspecting people into the national...

www.spokesman.com

True-crime fans seized on the Idaho killings. Their accusations derailed lives.​

"For any number of novice snoops, Kopacka’s death was suspicious. Accusers claimed that because he had allegedly threatened to kill his roommates, the veteran was capable of violence. They obsessed over Kopacka’s Facebook posts before his death – GPS coordinates, a quote about truth – until his alarmed family took down his profile. "

That would be the Tunnel Vision version of reality. They grab a name out of thin air, and then try to wrap the facts of the case around that name.

 

[concernedcitizen706]

Speculation about plans beyond killing Maddie cannot be proven, therefore will not be mentioned.

It is proven that Maddie is the targeted victim because as soon as Kohberger entered the house through the kitchen door, he went straight to her bedroom. He brought a deadly knife that he intended to use, because he did do that. That much can be proven.

Kaylee had moved out, so Kohberger did not expect to find her in Maddie's bedroom. It's unlikely that he planned to kill her since she no longer lived there. She was a witness, so he killed her.

We know Xana was awake due to the food delivery. Xana was killed in the doorway, or near the doorway, of her bedroom. The roommate in the bedroom at the bottom of the stairs heard "someone's here."

Xana was killed as a witness. Because Ethan was in the bedroom where Xana was killed, Ethan was also killed to eliminate a witness.

That's all that can be proven, and who really cares whether the plan was to mass murder, or home invasion assault and murder one young female student. Kohberger wants us to believe he is a mastermind mass murderer, but why should we believe that?

They say that Brian first went to Maddie's room, but how do we really know that? He could have gone to Kaylee's room first, opened the door, or peeked into the slightly open door, saw she wasn't there, and then went over to Maddie's room to check for her. I doubt there would be any forensic evidence to show that or not.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

There is absolutely nothing that I have seen that indicates this other guy has anything to do with these murders.
It is a fairy tale similar to the pagan theory in the Delphi trial.
If this is what Kohberger’s defense team is going to offer as an alternate suspect, I don’t see any possible way it will be permitted. It would be a mockery to allow meritless speculation to be entered into a court of law.

Just my thoughts

 

[concernedcitizen706]

Caylee was the victim.

Oh yes you're right, it was Casey Anthony on trial and Caylee was the young daughter.

 

[femto]

They say that Brian first went to Maddie's room, but how do we really know that? He could have gone to Kaylee's room first, opened the door, or peeked into the slightly open door, saw she wasn't there, and then went over to Maddie's room to check for her. I doubt there would be any forensic evidence to show that or not.

Well, no but a couple of things lead more credence to the Maddie theory instead of Kaylee
1. Maddie was the window that was visible from where Kohberger was parking during his drive-by
2. Maddie was the first one he killed
3. Kaylee wasn't even supposed to be there as per her parents. She had already mostly moved out and was preparing to leave for Texas for her new job.

I find it highly unlikely that Bryan would have known that Kaylee was there and most of all that she'd be there that day.

 

[Kudzuu]

@PunishThenForgive

Can you explain "incel-type mass murderers"?

Also, how he presented to you as one? What in the Dateline episode made you change your mind?

I'm reading the I 5 Killer and between that, P Diddy and this case my mind is working overtime. Randall Woodfield was a deviant and couldn't seem to have a normal sexual relationship. And the mother! Lots of serial killers have issues with women due to their mother's WTH.

I'm thinking BK has mommy issues too. Maybe some physical issues as well.

Moo

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