4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #107

[Arkay]

In my opinion, Kaylee was the prettiest of the girls in that house.

My opinion is COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT, however.

What is germane is what was in the eye of the beholder, and that is Bryan.

I think it is safe to say that while we all may speculate, theorize, assume; none of us have any real idea yet as to BK’s motives and methodology.

What we know are the facts that have been released. The DNA on the sheath, the white Elantra looping the house that night, the phone being off, the lack of a concrete alibi, the Amazon purchase history. Also the bits and pieces we have learned about BK’s temperament and mental health issues, family issues, the visual snow, the heroin addiction, the dramatic weight loss, the (IMO inadequate) paper that he wrote….etc. etc.

I am content (though eager) to wait for more to be revealed at trial.

The one thing of which I am certain is that Bryan is the murderer. Whom he targeted, why he killed four, how exactly, in what order, why he chose a K-Bar——soon we will know more actual and factual evidence.

JMO

 

[concernedcitizen706]

some people think that it may be about the Goncalves family or about the interviews that Steve does have each and every hearing since there attorney is listed on the people that got a notice about this hearing.
Notice of Hearing - Discussion Regarding the Role of Victims (SEALED)

I looked at some other documents and Shanon Gray isn't listed on those documents.

I could be wrong.

I'm no lawyer, but I would think the victims mean the actual crime victims. Not the family of the crime victims.

 

[concernedcitizen706]

We are not talking text exchange. We are talking whether DMs door was locked before everything started. We are talking that there was an assumption that DM did not lock her door because she didn't mention it in anything we have seen. My point is that just because there is no document that said DM Locked her door before going to bed the first time, it doesn't mean it didn't happen. DM did not mention she had a text exchange in anything the public had seen with BF in the beginning, yet it did happen.

Non mentioning Text exchange in public document does not mean it did not happen. (later docs proved it did)
Not mentioning locking door before everything happened in public door does not mean it did not happen. (we don't know if later docs might prove it did)

I get to choose my opinion. Kaylee was an original roommate, I don't consider her a "houseguest". You do, fine. Does not negate my opinion, though. There is plenty of guessing when there is no known evidence that he never tried DMs door, never looked in the living room, never looked in Kaylees room first. It's just as possible he was going to go in, kill the person in the room off of the kitchen and leave. But the door was locked and he had to choose someone else. JMO and I don't try and tell anyone it's the only valid choice.

I agree. Plus DM's door was right next to the kitchen. Actually let me clarify. It was actually right IN the kitchen. And we all know they had a lot of house guests in there go in and out. Probably many of them thought her door was the bathroom lol and opened the door on occasion. So I would imagine she got into the habit of locking her door. I would.

 

[PinkParis2052]

....

 

[otto]

https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/local/crime/article270073457.html

 

[wendy44]

I lean toward BK not going for a plea deal because he has something that most defendants don't have--a potential 4th Amendment challenge with the IGG that could go all the way to the Supreme Court. If the deal means life without parole anyway, you might think why not take your chances the court could go your way.
JMO

 

[LetsSolvIt]

1

This might be a dumb question but jumping off this post, wouldn't BK's attorney have to run his defense strategy past him? Wouldn't he have to approve her using those defense strategies, or can she just say anything she wants to try and get him off? That is a real question, I don't know the answer and I'd like to.

Just inquired with DH, who has been both defense and prosecution. The way DH explained it, an attorney decides on strategy he/she feels is best to defend their client. If the client does not agree or is not cooperative, the client can engage a different lawyer.

If the defense finds it too difficult to represent his/her client because the client is rejecting the strategy or being obstinate, defense can explain this to the court and ask to be allowed to

 

[katydid23]

No DM said that it sounded like Kaylee was playing with her dog in her room, before the attacks began.

But I don't remember her referring to the dog barking while they played. It was more like the sound of scuffling or running, like if one throws a toy for her dog, etc. imo

Then there was also talk of the dog barking after or around the time they heard what sounded like a large slump. So the dog was probably barking both before and after.

Or it was a different dog because there was not barking picked up on the audio before the final barks, when BK was leaving. I think it's more likely that it was a neighbour's dog reacting to BK walking briskly to his car. imo

Okay so was BK interested in sexual assault of Maddie and spending some time with her, like everyone says, or just flat-out murdering her? Because if all he cared about is murdering Maddie, then Kaylee did not ruin anything really for the night. If he really cared about having a big moment alone with Maddie, he would have left once he saw Kaylee there.

I doubt it. Predators are very pumped up during home invasions. They cannot just walk away at that point. imo

In fact he would have left once he heard xana call out, there's somebody here. Because right there he knows he did not get into the house undetected.

So? He knew there were several cars parked out front. He knew there would be physical confrontations. In fact he counted on it.

Since the two girls upstairs were asleep he could have waited till xana left, as in went to bed, and then snuck out again.

Yep, he could have.

I'm sure he had been in the house before,

How do we know that he'd been in that house before?

so it should no big deal to sneak out and come back again. So the fact that he did not leave when he could have, shows that he really was not interested in some alone time with Maddie.

That's a pretty big assumption, imo

No I think law enforcement is going with that idea, because it's the easier motive to sell. That's what people want to hear, that one girl was targeted, the hottest blonde girl was the one. That the guy was in love with the hot blonde girl. Explaining that BK wanted power glory and fame, like Ted Bundy and Elliot Rogers and BTK, is not something most people want to hear about. Explaining the BK wanted to kill a household of people, as many as he could get away with, is hard for people to wrap their head around. It's a more complex concept to sell. So they might as well stick to the romantic angle that he was in love with a beautiful blonde girl. People will find it more palatable.

Maybe both things are true? He wants his moment with MM, but he was also prepared to go on a rampage?

I was replying to someone who speculated that Kaylee was his target, and he chose that night because she had returned to the home after moving out, that he saw her car and sprang into action.

He wouldn't have known she was there just from the car, because the car was new. The most he could have known is that someone was there with an unfamiliar vehicle.

MOO

IIRC, KG had posted on IG that she was there to show her friends her new Range Rover. Am I remembering correctly?

 

[katydid23]

I was replying to someone who speculated that Kaylee was his target, and he chose that night because she had returned to the home after moving out, that he saw her car and sprang into action.

He wouldn't have known she was there just from the car, because the car was new. The most he could have known is that someone was there with an unfamiliar vehicle.

MOO

I might have imagined this, but I was pretty sure I saw a post of her on IG where she said she was visiting her old roomies to show them her new Range Rover--and she posted a pic?

 

[PunishThenForgive]

some people think that it may be about the Goncalves family or about the interviews that Steve does have each and every hearing since there attorney is listed on the people that got a notice about this hearing.
Notice of Hearing - Discussion Regarding the Role of Victims (SEALED)

I looked at some other documents and Shanon Gray isn't listed on those documents.

I could be wrong.

Good find! Thank you.

All the other attorneys are part of the prosecution and defense. I wonder if Gray requested the meeting, or if the prosecution and/or defense (or Judge Hippler) demanded that he attend.

We know Kaylee’s father hired a private investigator. Could the investigator have played a role in the leak? I doubt it since Steve G. wouldn’t want to jeopardize the investigation so close to trial, especially since Hippler has lately made so much evidence publicly available through the court documents.

IMO

 

[PunishThenForgive]

I agree. Plus DM's door was right next to the kitchen. Actually let me clarify. It was actually right IN the kitchen. And we all know they had a lot of house guests in there go in and out. Probably many of them thought her door was the bathroom lol and opened the door on occasion. So I would imagine she got into the habit of locking her door. I would.

That is a great point!

 

[katydid23]

I ran across this article giving a bit of detail (no names) of his family and their line of work, it seems most work(ed) within the school district at one time or another (BK was a security guard). It also references the low budget film one sister appeared in that I have referenced here many times in the past considering the subject matter:

<snipped & BBM>

LaBar says Kohberger came from a close-knit family. He grew up in eastern Pennsylvania in the Pocono Mountains. His father was as a maintenance worker and his mom worked in the school system. Bryan has two older sisters – one who works as a family therapist, and another sister who appeared in a 2011 low budget slasher film, "Two Days Back," about a group of young students viciously murdered by a serial killer. She now works as a school counselor.

BK's family are victims too IMO. They seem like good, healthy people who tried to do their best in supporting BK.

MOO

EBM: Spelling, sorry.

Never-before-seen photos and details about the man accused of murdering four Idaho college students

Something I've often wondered, concerning that slasher film, from his early years---

He was probably about 15 when his older sister began rehearsals for that film. And she would be at home, practicing her lines and her scene, where she was knifed to death.

One thing I've learned from studying bios of many serial killers is that many of them had serious sexual fantasies about the women in their families---they had inappropriate thoughts etc.

So if his attractive older sister was practicing her lines and her scenes, concerning her brutal death by a serial killer---did that imprint him in any way?

And then he'd go see it in the theatre? Did that excite him?

 

[otto]

But I don't remember her referring to the dog barking while they played. It was more like the sound of scuffling or running, like if one throws a toy for her dog, etc. imo
...

No dog barked in the house during the murders.

The witness with the bedroom at the bottom of the stairs woke up shortly after 4 a.m. to a noise that she thought was Kaylee playing with her dog.

The neighbour's CCTV picked up a barking dog around the time that Kohberger left the house.

 

[katydid23]

What on earth could this be: Notice of Hearing - Discussion Regarding Role of Victims SEALED?

The document reveals nothing.

Could this be a hearing to discuss how they are going to handle the survivor's testimony and court appearances? There was talk about not putting them on camera---so care will have to be taken on the days they attend the trial, etc.

 

[LadyL]

IDK. I tend to believe he was there. Three of my family members are vegan. It is hard for us to find family restaurants where we all can eat a nice meal together. And my Vegans know every place around us that have good meal options for them.

I bet if BK saw they had vegan pizza and other vegan options, he would absolutely give it a try. There aren't that many options for vegans so if they find a place that serves vegan pizza or vegan tacos, they will check it out.

I know the owner was quick to deny it, but of course he would. I just don't believe he can say that with any total honesty because he couldn't possibly know.

I think he was probably there too. And being vegan, I agree I try every place that has vegan options.

 

[katydid23]

The thing is, though, this crime is not a cautionary tale. It's a bolt from the blue. There is nothing that the victims being 'more aware' could have done to change the outcome. In fact, we have heard that one was a websleuther herself.

How would being more aware of a crime like this help a young person? Wouldn't it just cause fear of something unlikely to happen, that is completely out of their control to prevent?

MOO

They could have made sure the slider was always locked.

That's something I stressed to my daughter and her friends. In her first apartment with her 2 friends, they'd leave the door unlocked sometimes. I drilled it into them that they could not do that. They had to accept that it was dangerous. They weren't living at home with their families in the suburbs anymore.

 

[katydid23]

Having stalked/surveilled the house repeatedly, BK probably felt comfortable determining that it was all girl renters, one per room. And only one girl on the whole top floor.

He approached for the first time at 3:30... but did not enter -- were lights on in the house? Or next door? Other college kids out and about still? Was he counting cars in the parking area, doing his own math?

Unless he says or his internet searches give greater insight, I don't know that we can determine his agenda that night. Had KG not been there or not been in MM's bed, had XK not been awake and hungry, would BK have murdered just MM and left? Quite possible, IMO.

Would he have continued? Killed KG next, in her own room, had she been there, then on down through the second floor to the basement, killing as he went? I can't rule it out. Fanboy of Bundy.

JMO

He is probably lucky that KG was in the bed, thus trapped between him and the wall. If she had been in her own room, she probably would have heard the scuffle in MM's room, and she would have screamed, maybe escaped and woke everyone up, to come confront him?

 

[LinasK]

OT: It’s bothered me a lot that the innocent Hyundai brand got connected to this horrible crime. I don’t think anyone is blaming Hyundai it’s just having (IMHO) a wonderful car brand mentioned seemingly thousands of times in the same sentence with the alleged monster BK and this gruesome crime.

I’m now driving my second Hyundai, a Palisade, and LOVE it! The Elantra never gave me one problem — drove it 12 years with no repairs — but was too small for DH. Please don’t judge Hyundai because BK drove one!

Exactly! And it's a car he got in PA, not WA state. Not sure how common they are in WA, but one unrelated one was spotted in Oregon.

 

[LinasK]

The problem with categories like that is people tend to not fit neatly into boxes. It's why they've moved away from organised/disorganised, because most people show both. For example, planning to the nth degree, but leaving behind the sheath with his DNA - a mistake so basic that some people are convinced it's evidence of a conspiracy.

People are chaotic and contain multitudes. They also can act in ways that seem like they smack of self delusion or self sabotage when acting before, during and after a crime. It doesn't mean they're actually delusional, incapable, or 'trying to get caught'. They're just human, behaving in the ways that humans do, overestimating their own abilities and luck and underestimating how predictable their actions are and how competent those hunting them are.

As for 'types', you can read any of them into this crime and this perpetrator. Visionary probably the least, unless you're including in that the desire for power and glory through his killings, which is definitely a possibility. He was very much a student of violence and violent offenders. He could have wanted to join them in notoriety, and seen his path to that in a visionary light.

MOO

Yeah I just watched a program where the guy murdered his sister and mother so that he could be infamous. He actually said that in his interview!

 

[LinasK]

They say that Brian first went to Maddie's room, but how do we really know that? He could have gone to Kaylee's room first, opened the door, or peeked into the slightly open door, saw she wasn't there, and then went over to Maddie's room to check for her. I doubt there would be any forensic evidence to show that or not.

Agreed. Because I've speculated that Kaylee was his target.