4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #108

[Balthazar]

If she had time for another case, then a continuance is ridiculous.

Not really. Defense attorneys tend to receive things in drips, where there is not much to do, then get a huge amount of materials where there is tons of work. To some extent this is controlled by the prosecution. In this case, where the prosecution has been slow to deliver the discovery and, delivered it in a highly disorganized fashion, instead of the normally organized way most cases are received by the defense, the defense has had to organize materials which is highly unusual. Usually the prosecution can’t wait to show the defense their case and offer highly organized materials that point to one thing: the defense attorney should strongly recommend a plea to their client. The fact BT did not do this makes me wonder about the strength of his case against BK, especially back in 2023 and it is possible that may be impacting the latter part of the discovery process as the defense is still requesting materials after discovery should be long complete.

In this situation a continuance should be granted, especially after the Dateline leak which must be investigated, especially after KM announced in the local interview I linked above, that the people at Dateline know “most” if not all of the prosecution’s case. Yikes! That doesn’t indicate a small leak to me. That is a major breach of professional ethics. I don’t know why KM said that, but, any investigator would take him at his word and go from there in investigating the situation. It is no longer just about the five data points I mentioned previously that were leaked on the Dateline show. Apparently the vast majority of the prosecution case has been leaked. This is a catastrophe.

And we don’t even begin to know what the over 300 people who were interviewed for the Patterson book told him and his co-author. Can Judge Hippler delay the publication of that book? IDK.

JMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

IANAL, but I can see no reason to throw out evidence leaked on Dateline (or to be leaked in the yet-to-be-released Patterson/Ward book) that was ALREADY REVEALED in court documents.

If AT manages to throw out ALL THE NEW evidence that we didn’t already know about until Dateline leaked it on May 9, 2025, the State’s case will be fine, IMO.

And if AT is so worried about the Patterson book, I suggest she files an injunction to delay release of said book until she can personally vet every single word of it.

Now that’s a delay I can live with.

Well then, AT would have to attack all the stories and specials (NewsNation, CourtTV, other Network Specials other than Dateline, etc.) done on this case so far and books already written, of which there are a lot. Howard Blum's book as wells such as While Idaho Slept, J Appleman, Idaho Murders, R Rackley etc. to name a few.

AT's desperately grasping at straws, BK is guilty, they have no solid Defense of that fact. AT is reaching, but also covering her behind at the same time. She is so far from ineffective council, she has gotten more Motions approved, especially the FGG ones, than most Defense Attorneys could IMO.

She has to know that BK is guilty, she's seen ALL the terrifying evidence. She doesn't want to end up on the side of losing a high profile case, but maybe, just maybe, she'd be relieved deep down if BK IS found guilty? She can say and know she's done everything and more that a Defense Attorney could do. IDK, just random speculation.

IMO

 

[Sachi]

Not really. Defense attorneys tend to receive things in drips, where there is not much to do, then get a huge amount of materials where there is tons of work. To some extent this is controlled by the prosecution. In this case, where the prosecution has been slow to deliver the discovery and, delivered it in a highly disorganized fashion, instead of the normally organized way most cases are received by the defense, the defense has had to organize materials which is highly unusual. Usually the prosecution can’t wait to show the defense their case and offer highly organized materials that point to one thing: the defense attorney should strongly recommend a plea to their client. The fact BT did not do this makes me wonder about the strength of his case against BK, especially back in 2023 and it is possible that may be impacting the latter part of the discovery process as the defense is still requesting materials after discovery should be long complete.

In this situation a continuance should be granted, especially after the Dateline leak which must be investigated, especially after KM announced in the local interview I linked above, that the people at Dateline know “most” if not all of the prosecution’s case. Yikes! That doesn’t indicate a small leak to me. That is a major breach of professional ethics. I don’t know why KM said that, but, any investigator would take him at his word and go from there in investigating the situation. It is no longer just about the five data points I mentioned previously that were leaked on the Dateline show. Apparently the vast majority of the prosecution case has been leaked. This is a catastrophe.

And we don’t even begin to know what the over 300 people who were interviewed for the Patterson book told him and his co-author. Can Judge Hippler delay the publication of that book? IDK.

JMO

Wait.. you know for a fact from MSM and not from what AT said, that the prosecution was slow to deliver the discovery and that it was in a "highly disorganized" fashion?
And this is different from what you call "normally organized way most cases are received by defense".
Can you please share a link to this? Appreciate it greatly.

"It is no longer just about the five data points I mentioned previously that were leaked on the Dateline show. Apparently the vast majority of the prosecution case has been leaked. This is catastrophe."
Can you please share a link to this too as fact , thank you in advance

 

[girlhasnoname]

Bundy was treated special pre-trial and during trial. Then there was the verdict, 'special' ended, and the death penalty was carried out.

That's how it is until the benefit of the doubt is exhausted and truth is known. Kohberger has the same future as Bundy, although the death penalty may not be carried out.

Yes, even as the Judge sentenced Bundy to the DP at the end of the trial, he was showing more than the typical compassion towards him. These SK and Mass Murderers can be quite the charming chameleons and manipulators.

Of course Bundy had a lot more charisma than BK, so there's that.

JMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

BBM. Work with me, I'm seriously trying to figure this out. She says there is an enormous amount of discovery, yet will only go through discovery herself. That already sounds like ineffective counsel. And needing to have the social history done before identifying expert witnesses for mitigation is something that there have been over 2 years to do. Once again looks like ineffective counsel. Even if a continuation is given, is the counsel now suddenly effective because they had extra time to do what they already should have done? I'm not seeing how they could not still appeal based on ineffective counsel due to it taking so long which falls below the standard of competence and diligence expected from attorneys. I mean, you expect your defense team to be able to get through the discovery asked for in a timely manner, and you expect that they know what needs to be done to identify witnesses for mitigation at the get go, not two years in.

I'm really trying to figure out what a continuance actually accomplishes. It doesn't negate what hasn't been done and should have been done ( Rather ineffective if you ask me), it just kicks that should-have-been-done can down the road to where it's finally done ( and no more effective because it should have already been done, also IMO). Getting things accomplished late can sometimes make the attorney look ineffective. Why would anyone try to appear that way?

AT is hardly ineffective, she's very intelligent and has provided BK a vigorous defense with the little evidence or loopholes she can find so far. She's been the most effective and vigorous Defense Attorney I've seen in a long time representing an obvious (to me) guilty as heck mass murderer.

Game strategy, or is it a possibility that she would withdraw from the case? She'd have to show a high standard of conflict for the Judge to even entertain a withdrawal this late in the proceedings.

JMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

I got a monster ticket for scaring a pedestrian in an airport crosswalk. In Pittsburgh. Which is in Pennsylvania.

I'm sorry about that @pittsburghgirl, but it totally made me laugh:

 

[girlhasnoname]

BK and his attorneys are going to appeal anyway. It seems to me that AT's unwillingness to hire more staff will not make the "there was too much discovery" very successful.

DP cases get automatic appeals. A lot of them get commuted to LWOP. IMO

 

[SteveP]

Not really. Defense attorneys tend to receive things in drips, where there is not much to do, then get a huge amount of materials where there is tons of work. To some extent this is controlled by the prosecution. In this case, where the prosecution has been slow to deliver the discovery and, delivered it in a highly disorganized fashion, instead of the normally organized way most cases are received by the defense, the defense has had to organize materials which is highly unusual. Usually the prosecution can’t wait to show the defense their case and offer highly organized materials that point to one thing: the defense attorney should strongly recommend a plea to their client. The fact BT did not do this makes me wonder about the strength of his case against BK, especially back in 2023 and it is possible that may be impacting the latter part of the discovery process as the defense is still requesting materials after discovery should be long complete.

In this situation a continuance should be granted, especially after the Dateline leak which must be investigated, especially after KM announced in the local interview I linked above, that the people at Dateline know “most” if not all of the prosecution’s case. Yikes! That doesn’t indicate a small leak to me. That is a major breach of professional ethics. I don’t know why KM said that, but, any investigator would take him at his word and go from there in investigating the situation. It is no longer just about the five data points I mentioned previously that were leaked on the Dateline show. Apparently the vast majority of the prosecution case has been leaked. This is a catastrophe.

And we don’t even begin to know what the over 300 people who were interviewed for the Patterson book told him and his co-author. Can Judge Hippler delay the publication of that book? IDK.

JMO

This ruling from Judge Hippler addressed many of the defense's exaggerated claims, that you basically parrot here, about discovery coming slowly and in a disorganized manner, writing, in his ruling of April 25...

Further, voluminous discovery alone is not a basis for finding concealment under Brady. This occurs typically in "open file" discovery where the government effectively makes its entire file available to a criminal defendant. United States v. Saffarinia, 424 F.Supp.3d 46, 85 (D.D.C. 2020). This method ofdiscovery-which Defendant requested of the State in this case-carries the recognized benefit of increasing "the efficiency and fairness of the criminal process." (Pg 5)

" it is clear that discovery was produced to defendant as he specifically requested." (Pg 5)

"Defendant asked for "everything" and "everything" is what he received. Defendant cannot demand everything under the sun and then complain about the weight of the planets." (Pg 6)

In addition, Defendant's complaints of being unable to meaningfully review the discovery ring hollow. Defendant has been receiving discovery in the same manner for over two years. In that time, he has not once sought a remedy from this Court to regulate discovery, such as requiring the State to provide discovery in a different format. He has not sought additional resources under ICR 12.2 to hire additional staff to review discovery or obtain litigation document control software to help organize and sort the evidence. His lead counsel insisted that she be allowed to take on a second high-profile capital case (Pg 6)

Defendant was arrested on December 30, 2022, approximately six weeks after the homicides. Defense counsel filed a notice of appearance on January 12, 2023, and the State first began providing discovery on January 18, 2023. Thus, this is not a situation where the State has had the benefit of a years-long investigation compared to a defendant who has mere months to review the investigative material (Pg 10)

I would suggest that it is the defense dragging their feet in this case, and not the state. As to any concern anyone may have as to the strength of the state's case against BK, other than BK removing his black balaclava, and taking selfies while standing next to the bloody victims, while holding his KaBar knife that we know he purchased from Amazon, I'm not sure how much stronger evidence of BK's guilt one could ask for in order to determine he and he alone was the murderer.

And finally, again, the Dateline leak(s) will be investigated and the leaker(s) will be punished, but they will not prevent or severely impact the trial, regardless of any hopes the defense may have that they will. JMO

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/CR01-24-31665/2025/042925+Order+on+Defendants+Motion+to+Strike+Death+Penalty+and+Adopt+other+Necessary+Procedures.pdf

 

[otto]

I agree and in this regard I suspect that either consciously or subconsciously, he was partly driven by knowing that people would be fascinated with him and his thoughts, including his fellow students, peers, tutors, lecturers, professors and all the people who he couldn't get along so easily with in real life. If he's a narcissistic PD then he bumped himself up the top of a hierarchy (in his mind) from down at the bottom student forced to bumble along with many peers and not making a dent in academia, to suddenly all the way up to being the subject matter itself. It's one way of making it to the top huh.

JMO MOO

I'm not convinced that Kohberger has achieved the fame that he wants. He's not a Bundy. Kohberger did not commit several murders and evade capture. Bundy did not leave evidence. He abducted two women in plain site at a beach festival, and still he was not captured. Bundy was primarily convicted with a bite mark; evidence that is no longer valid today.

Kohberger a common predator and home invader who went to a specific bedroom to murder one woman. One other home occupant and two houseguest 'witnesses' were subsequently murdered, then he ran away as fast as he could. He was arrested because he left evidence linked to him in the bedroom.

I don't see anything in common between Kohberger and the serial/mass murderers that he studied. Kohberger envisioned himself as a criminal mastermind, but reality is that he's a common criminal who was easily identified. He had access to information that should have given him an advantage in committing murder and evading capture, but it made no difference.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

This ruling from Judge Hippler addressed many of the defense's claims, that you basically parrot here, about discovery coming slowly and in a disorganized manner, writing, in his ruling of April 25...

Further, voluminous discovery alone is not a basis for finding concealment under Brady. This occurs typically in "open file" discovery where the government effectively makes its entire file available to a criminal defendant. United States v. Saffarinia, 424 F.Supp.3d 46, 85 (D.D.C. 2020). This method ofdiscovery-which Defendant requested of the State in this case-carries the recognized benefit of increasing "the efficiency and fairness of the criminal process." (Pg 5)

" it is clear that discovery was produced to defendant as he specifically requested." (Pg 5)
"Defendant asked for "everything" and "everything" is what he received. Defendant cannot demand everything under the sun and then complain about the weight of the planets." (Pg 6)

In addition, Defendant's complaints of being unable to meaningfully review the discovery ring hollow. Defendant has been receiving discovery in the same manner for over two years. In that time, he has not once sought a remedy from this Court to regulate discovery, such as requiring the State to provide discovery in a different format. He has not sought additional resources under ICR 12.2 to hire additional staff to review discovery or obtain litigation document control software to help organize and sort the evidence. His lead counsel insisted that she be allowed to take on a second high-profile capital case (Pg 6)
Defendant was arrested on December 30, 2022, approximately six weeks after the homicides. Defense counsel filed a notice of appearance on January 12, 2023, and the State first began providing discovery on January 18, 2023. Thus, this is not a situation where the State has had the benefit of a years-long investigation compared to a defendant who has mere months to review the investigative material (Pg 10)

I would suggest that it is the defense dragging their feet in this case, and not the state. As to any concern anyone may have as to the strength of the state's case against BK, other than BK removing his black balaclava, and taking selfies while standing next to the bloody victims, while holding his KaBar knife that we know he purchased from Amazon, I'm not sure how much stronger evidence of BK's guilt one could ask for in order to determine he and he alone was the murderer.

And finally, again, the Dateline leak(s) will be investigated and the leaker(s) will be punished, but they will not prevent or severely impact the trial, regardless of any hopes the defense may have that they will. JMO

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/CR01-24-31665/2025/042925+Order+on+Defendants+Motion+to+Strike+Death+Penalty+and+Adopt+other+Necessary+Procedures.pdf

Thank you for this clear and decisive explanation of why the defense has not been hamstrung by how they got discovery or how much. They got what they asked for.

The Daybed/Vallow cases illustrate that the whole world can know the bodies were found on the defendants' property and a trial can still go on. In the case of the most recent trials, LVD had already been convicted of murdering her kids and yet they could pick a jury in the case of the murder of her husband. What AT is objecting to is that the PCA pretty much seals the deal. The forensics, cell data, etc. just confirm what LE knew when BK was arrested. Everyone knew about the sheath. That implies the knife. And of course the prosecution would then find the purchase--because AT's own client was too stupid to pay cash in some gun show where there were no cameras and no one knew him.

 

[danablue1]

AT is not doing herself any favors. From the ridiculous alibi that took months to come up with, the newly diagnosis of autism and now an alternative suspect who remains nameless. Grasping at straws and all BS in my opinion.

 

[Megnut]

Old article but I stumbled across it, chock full of trial-readiess dates. Some probably have been revised but the general point stands:

AT has had plenty of notice and plenty of time to prepare.

• State's guilt phase experts: Dec. 18, 2024
• Defendant's guilt phase experts: Jan. 23, 2025
• Rebuttal guilt phase experts: Feb. 13, 2025
• State's penalty phase experts: Jan. 27, 2025
• Defendant's penalty phase experts: March 31, 2025
• Rebuttal penalty phase experts: April 28, 2025

Kohberger trial moved back to start in August 2025

Bryan Kohberger, the man charged with murdering four University of Idaho students, now has a new trial date.

www.boisestatepublicradio.org

 

[Megnut]

So why hasn't AT launched a three-generational study? Presumably BK's family has filled in some holes in order for AT's "expert" to draw conclusions about BK should have/ could have/ wasn't diagnosed with as a child, lending to an adult diagnosis of ASDL1 which seems wholly anecdotal and largely theoretical as opposed to in any way comprehensive.

AT seems to have a handle on just how deeply she wants to explore BK's health, surely she's gotten fair input from BK's parents/siblings, so that just leaves his grandparents, for the third tier. She can stack the deck at the penalty phase, iiuc. Get a juror who feels bad because BK can't tie his upside down five laces. Get a juror who thinks BK was bullied (who doesn't think maybe BK was the bullier) and reacted badly. Get a juror who thinks BK's grammaw's bursitis gave BK tennis  elbow brain.

If AT believed there was anything in BK's family medical chart, she'd have gotten that report started eons ago. Executive function, order of operation. You farm out what can be farmed out. Run concurrent strategies. Feel out which experts other defendants are calling.

Even before Dateline aired, AT was obviously preparing to ask for a continuance. I don't see a double legitimate claim there. She's had time to conduct that study. She's had time to vet experts.

She's asking for an unspecified delay without providing a concrete need. A study she's had plenty of time to complete, which is nothing but a fishing expedition, and the judge previously ruled on extensions -- work harder, not faster, but also, work faster. Ask for resources, ask for staff.

Ineffective counsel? She argued for it -- had the time, capacity and wherewithal to do it, times two. She is competent. Clearly the judge is questioning her strategy but not her competence.

And appeals don't flow from defense strategy. You don't get a do-over just because you didn't get the outcome you wanted.

Judge Hippler is all over this. Polling her constantly, to get it on the record, that AT's actions are strategic, in nature. Judicial brilliance.

So why hasn't AT added staff, requested software, exhausted resources? Because she's Type A and a lone wolf, has to do it all herself? Because she let the time clock run too long? Or maybe, maybe because there's nothing left to find (in discovery, in BK's past) and that's not her interest. Maybe it's the appearance of excessive discovery, of missing discovery that is useful to her, to exploit.

Judge ain't having it.

JMO

 

[MassGuy]

The Goncalves Family Facebook page is back up. It had been mass reported a couple days ago, leading to it being taken down.

Log into Facebook

Log into Facebook to start sharing and connecting with your friends, family, and people you know.

www.facebook.com

 

[Balthazar]

Wait.. you know for a fact from MSM and not from what AT said, that the prosecution was slow to deliver the discovery and that it was in a "highly disorganized" fashion?
And this is different from what you call "normally organized way most cases are received by defense".
Can you please share a link to this? Appreciate it greatly.

"It is no longer just about the five data points I mentioned previously that were leaked on the Dateline show. Apparently the vast majority of the prosecution case has been leaked. This is catastrophe."
Can you please share a link to this too as fact , thank

I’ve already shared both links.

 

[PunishThenForgive]

The Goncalves Family Facebook page is back up. It had been mass reported a couple days ago, leading to it being taken down.

Log into Facebook

Log into Facebook to start sharing and connecting with your friends, family, and people you know.

www.facebook.com

Mass reported? Do you know if it was a coordinated effort?

It would be pretty coincidental if the recent closed hearing attended by the Goncalves attorney and the Goncalves FB account being taken down were not related. IMO

I wonder how different the FB account is now that it has returned.

 

[Megnut]

I'm reviewing the November 7, 2024 hearing. The Defense is upset that BK has to choose between rights...

So no DP.

Not a fixed method of DP so no DP.

BK should experience too much anxiety waiting for execution so no DP.

Since every case of murder could be a DP case, no DP.

It's taking too long, so no DP.

If the trial hadn't had to move, BK could have had a speedy trial so... no DP.

Can't say she didn't try.

(BK is sitting up nice and tall in his suit and tie.)

jmo

2:30.00 to 2:40.00 is a lively listen.

 

[MassGuy]

Mass reported? Do you know if it was a coordinated effort?

It would be pretty coincidental if the recent closed hearing attended by the Goncalves attorney and the Goncalves FB account being taken down were not related. IMO

I wonder how different the FB account is now that it has returned.

I believed the same, that they took it down themselves based on the timing. I have since learned it was a coordinated effort though. I imagine they appealed and Facebook reinstated it.

 

[Megnut]

My head is spun by her argument.

BK shouldn't have had to forego his fight to a speedy trial when it's in his intetest TO present the jury with mitigation in order to escape the DP. So yes, he's choosing between rights but it's to his benefit. Yet, strike the DP because reasons.

My head is spun but I can still see straight.

So can the judge.

JMO

 

[PunishThenForgive]

I believed the same, that they took it down themselves based on the timing. I have since learned it was a coordinated effort though. I imagine they appealed and Facebook reinstated it.

Interesting. But I wonder who could have been behind the coordinated effort. A Proberger content creator with a particularly large following, perhaps?

The defense doesn’t have to do anything itself, just stoke the flames of disinformation by saying just the right thing during an open court hearing, or including just the right misleading statement in a published court document.

IMO