4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #108

[pittsburghgirl]

Wouldn’t many of these hours have been fulfilled while earning his master’s degree in Pennsylvania?

Anyway, he apparently didn’t know how to transfer the bulk of his knowledge practically.

No, not at all. There are some programs that allow students enrolled in their program to segue from MA or MS to the PhD, but BK's masters was at a different institution. The program for the PhD is laid out on WSU's website.

 

[Ghostwheel]

Depends. Lots of peple have zip up water, dust proof mattress covers.

But if they had one, would the blood have soaked through like that? (Real question) I had actually thought the stains visible on the mattresses were not enough for what I thought should be there and assumed I just could not see it all, but maybe a cover that leaked would explain that. (Plastic with tear in it, fabric rhat leaked at seams or stitching). None of the covers I have ever had APPEAR to have leaked, but I can't say anything ever happened to them like this.

 

[Boxer]

But if they had one, would the blood have soaked through like that? (Real question) I had actually thought the stains visible on the mattresses were not enough for what I thought should be there and assumed I just could not see it all, but maybe a cover that leaked would explain that. (Plastic with tear in it, fabric rhat leaked at seams or stitching). None of the covers I have ever had APPEAR to have leaked, but I can't say anything ever happened to them like this.

Right a knife was being used.

 

[Jw192]

I found BKs search history for a Britney Spears' song interesting.

Kohberger's alleged browsing activity included Google searches for "University of Idaho Murders" and a program about serial killer Ted Bundy, Britney Spears' song "Criminal," according to Dateline. SOURCE

I was reading the lyrics and thinking "I don't see how this relates to BK and the murders", then I ran across 2 lines from the song about halfway down.

He is a killer just for fun, fun, fun, fun
He's got no conscience, he got none, none, none, none SOURCE
==========================================================
Also....

the records indicate Kohberger made online inquiries for pornography with the words "forced," "passed out," "drugged" and "sleeping," per the phone data. SOURCE
==========================================================

So... IMO it sounds like he went to Maddie's room for forced, passed out and/or sleeping sex, just for "fun, fun, fun", found Kaylee in bed with her which ruined said fun, fun, fun, he snapped and the killing spree began.

It's also MO that Xana and Ethan were killed simply because she was still awake and BK came across her on his way out and she ran into her room. And I also think that had he found her in the kitchen and killed her there on his way out, that Ethan might have lived to see another day.

It's hard for me to believe I could get angrier with him for the killings, but I am now that I realize, IMO, that it was all for fun. (Raping, which I think he went for) and killing is NOT supposed to be considered fun!!!

Honestly, the thought of that ghoul Buffalo Billing around his shower curtainless bathroom to Britney crooning out 'Criminal' is something I wish I could bleach from my brain

ICK

 

[Ghostwheel]

Right a knife was being used.

I'm not trying to be obtuse. Is your theory that the knife went THROUGH the bodies or he missed people and stabbed the bed? A killing thrust has no reason to go all the way through a body. I suppose from my point of view (the one where someone actually knows how to handle a knife) I erroneously thought there was no need to stab the mattress. Well, now I feel stupid.

 

[Jw192]

Agree with almost all of this and love the energy of your language. However, BK did not have "extensive doctoral level study." He had one semester of doctoral courses and managed to get himself dismissed from the program. That program requires 39 hours in graded course work, with 24 credits being required core courses. A minimum 33 hours would be research. According to an AI search, students take 9 credits (3 courses) per semester. That would project out to finishing course work and starting research in the first two years. Successful university teaching and research is required in addition to the dissertation.

So BK did maybe the first 1/4 of his graded coursework. One of those courses was likely some form of research or quantitative methods, based on the listed requirement. And the first listed course was in "Multicultural Issues in Criminal Justice." I'm sure he aced THAT one...But none of it would prepare him to be a homicidal criminal mastermind.

I stand corrected about how long he was on the PhD programme, my bad. Though, he will have studied years before then for his bachelor's and masters? (unless it's different over the pond, I'm not fully clued up on the differences between education paths of the USA and the UK)
I do stand by though, that he's a temu Bundy wannabe fanboy worm. A rotten to the core selfish envious and arrogant little worm, and whilst I do agree with Mass, who said how they would love to know what was going on in that fugly head of his and what you said too - ofc we would all love to know, it's human nature to want to know for the likes of "us" - I truly believe that he could offer nothing that would helpfully aid any type of psych/crim or law enforcements education or future prevention of serious crime... would it be interesting? Hell yah, it's interesting to hear criminal mentality as a whole, but helpful? Nah. That worm is gonna get enough spotlight with the likes of netflix and what have you that love nothing more than to pump out "true crime" bilge, last thing we all want is to play into his stinky little fantasy life of him being even remotely important.

MOO

 

[Jw192]

I'm not trying to be obtuse. Is your theory that the knife went THROUGH the bodies or he missed people and stabbed the bed? A killing thrust has no reason to go all the way through a body. I suppose from my point of view (the one where someone actually knows how to handle a knife) I erroneously thought there was no need to stab the mattress. Well, now I feel stupid.

Them kabars are frigging HUGE! I didn't even realise how large they are until I seen a photo of a woman holding one next to her body. She was averaged sized and the tip went out past her back, like it could have gone through them to the mattress, those girls were teeny I feel sick even writing that

 

[Bahshudc]

Re the knife being disposed of in Snake River, I don’t suppose we ever saw images of police searching the bridge or anything of that nature? Is it even worth searching in its vastness? Been a while since I’ve caught up with WS stuff as I’ve been moving house. Always wondered if they searched this area from day one as it seems logical. MOO.

 

[SteveP]

Fun fact I would have missed if not for GH -- BK was apparently turned away at Costco. Members only. He didn't have the jacket.

Went Albertson's instead. Self-checkout so LE knows what he bought.

Perhaps what he was doing at Kate's CoJ was availing himself of a free dumpster --

JMO

Maybe he thought Costco might have multi-packs of shower curtain liners. That, or car disinfecting supplies in industrial sizes. Or maybe he just wanted the famous quarter-pound beef hotdog and 20 oz. drink for $1.50. He needed to save money for a replacement KaBar knife, ya know. JMO

 

[Ghostwheel]

Them kabars are frigging HUGE! I didn't even realise how large they are until I seen a photo of a woman holding one next to her body. She was averaged sized and the tip went out past her back, like it could have gone through them to the mattress, those girls were teeny I feel sick even writing that

I am aware of the size of that kabar, I own one . The girl in the image was not, imo, of average size, she was tiny. But Maddie was also tiny, so while a normal person would have zero need to use a knife (not on a person of course) in a manner that would force it through its prey (you don't do that for many reasons), I see that a frenzied person would have not even thought about what a killing blow entailed. And it wouldn't be so hard you'd go through a body. Stuck in my own frame of reference, was all. Having not been a frenzied killer, which I'm taking as a good thing.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

.. he's a temu Bundy wannabe fanboy worm. A rotten to the core selfish envious and arrogant little worm

MOO

I love this description.

 

[Cool Cats]

I stand corrected about how long he was on the PhD programme, my bad. Though, he will have studied years before then for his bachelor's and masters? (unless it's different over the pond, I'm not fully clued up on the differences between education paths of the USA and the UK)
I do stand by though, that he's a temu Bundy wannabe fanboy worm. A rotten to the core selfish envious and arrogant little worm, and whilst I do agree with Mass, who said how they would love to know what was going on in that fugly head of his and what you said too - ofc we would all love to know, it's human nature to want to know for the likes of "us" - I truly believe that he could offer nothing that would helpfully aid any type of psych/crim or law enforcements education or future prevention of serious crime... would it be interesting? Hell yah, it's interesting to hear criminal mentality as a whole, but helpful? Nah. That worm is gonna get enough spotlight with the likes of netflix and what have you that love nothing more than to pump out "true crime" bilge, last thing we all want is to play into his stinky little fantasy life of him being even remotely important.

MOO

temu Bundy?

 

[PunishThenForgive]

No, not at all. There are some programs that allow students enrolled in their program to segue from MA or MS to the PhD, but BK's masters was at a different institution. The program for the PhD is laid out on WSU's website.

Institutions vary widely in how many graduate hours they accept as transfer credits for a PhD program. For example, at University of Washington, a master’s degree in a relevant field of study from an accredited institution may substitute for up to 30 of the required 90 credits for a PhD (that is, ten courses), whereas Washington State University’s Department of Electrical Engineering and Computer Science allows students to petition to transfer credit for only five graduate courses (15 credits) taken at another institution.

The transfer policy even varies within some institutions, including at WSU. While BK’s (former) Department of Criminal Justice and Criminology does allow students to petition to transfer graduate credit:

Coursework​

72 credits total – 39 graded credits (credits earned for your M.A. count towards this total; if you enter our program with an M.A. from another university, some of your credits may transfer), and 33 dissertation research credits.

the maximum allowed is only four graduate courses (12 credits):

The Department of Criminal Justice and Criminology accepts up to 12 credits (four 3 credit courses) of transfer credit hours, pending department and graduate school approval of syllabi and transcripts. The credit hours must come from an accredited University to be considered.

I wonder why Kohberger chose a PhD program that accepts so few of the 30 hours of graduate coursework he completed for his M.A. degree in Criminal Justice at DeSales University.

If his ultimate goal was to enter academia, why did he choose an institution with a terminal masters degree in the first place?

Perhaps BK never really intended to pursue an academic career. He certainly didn’t make much of an effort at WSU, after all.

Instead, he may have intended to pursue a more practical career in crime, one with a particularly audacious and heinous initial foray.

And he may have chosen WSU, a university so very close to the Washington-Idaho border, because he thought it would improve his chances of not getting caught. As @SteveP speculated in an earlier thread:

Did he cross state lines, believing that a department's jurisdiction stopped at the county/state line, and neighboring departments would not be full partners in working to solve the crimes? Did he think that the small towns of Moscow and Pullman would not be adequately trained and work together? Did he not realize that the FBI surely would be in on day 1, working side-by-side with local agencies?

IMOO

 

[PunishThenForgive]

I stand corrected about how long he was on the PhD programme, my bad. Though, he will have studied years before then for his bachelor's and masters? (unless it's different over the pond, I'm not fully clued up on the differences between education paths of the USA and the UK)
I do stand by though, that he's a temu Bundy wannabe fanboy worm. A rotten to the core selfish envious and arrogant little worm, and whilst I do agree with Mass, who said how they would love to know what was going on in that fugly head of his and what you said too - ofc we would all love to know, it's human nature to want to know for the likes of "us" - I truly believe that he could offer nothing that would helpfully aid any type of psych/crim or law enforcements education or future prevention of serious crime... would it be interesting? Hell yah, it's interesting to hear criminal mentality as a whole, but helpful? Nah. That worm is gonna get enough spotlight with the likes of netflix and what have you that love nothing more than to pump out "true crime" bilge, last thing we all want is to play into his stinky little fantasy life of him being even remotely important.

MOO

And yet we here on Websleuths are fixated on this terrible man and his terrible crimes. So in a way Bryan Kohberger is “important,” in the same way past criminals are important to our understanding of our species. To fully appreciate goodness and to strive mightily for it, perhaps we have to grapple with and face the simmering human potential for true evil.

IMOO

 

[Cool Cats]

And yet we here on Websleuths are fixated on this terrible man and his terrible crimes. So in a way Bryan Kohberger is “important,” in the same way past criminals are important to our understanding of our species. To fully appreciate goodness and to strive mightily for it, perhaps we have to grapple with and face the simmering human potential for true evil.

Saying he is important gives me a headache. I will put his crimes down to notorious.

 

[Cool Cats]

But if they had one, would the blood have soaked through like that? (Real question) I had actually thought the stains visible on the mattresses were not enough for what I thought should be there and assumed I just could not see it all, but maybe a cover that leaked would explain that. (Plastic with tear in it, fabric rhat leaked at seams or stitching). None of the covers I have ever had APPEAR to have leaked, but I can't say anything ever happened to them like this.

I don't think the bloody covers have been shown....2 cents

 

[Cool Cats]

Can anyone be as white as BK without altering the photo?

He looks like a ghoul. Oh wait! He is a ghoul.

It's bright bathroom "washed out" coloring and harsh lighting. In the harsh light of my laundry room my pants look red, in the dimmer bathroom light they look pink. Colors change accordingly but it is quite noticeable how almost tan he looks in some court photos compared to that creepy bathroom photo.

2 Cents

 

[LetsSolvIt]

I'll agree that I don't think Dateline should have put out an episode on the case with information that was definitely covered by the gag order just a few months before before trial.

I disagree with the hosts both thinking that the info could only have come from someone low level in local LE/prosecution and that the people on the episode speaking provided none of it. I think it came from multiple places, probably from both "sides"--heck, even moving the trial from Moscow to Ada County increased the number of people with access to information. Howard Blum, Steve G and his PI, the numerous experts and consultants on both sides, one of the multiple residents of the next door house with the security footage, friends of BK's office mate, etc--so many sources.

What I would like to know, in addition to who, is the when---not in terms of "oh, Dateline got that info b4 the gag order and held onto it this whole time"....but when did they get each piece of evidence in relation to where the case was at certain times in terms of different appeals and judgements.

Now, mini-rant on:

I'll nitpick here--I'm disappointed that it sure seems like JSM and his cohost didn't bother to do a lot of verifying of facts/dates against what they recalled before they recorded and published this episode. I started taking notes of things they were factually wrong about or uninformed about...things that would have taken them seconds on Google to check instead of saying "well, if I remember correctly" or flat out stating something as fact or things that they'd know if they'd read court filings. If you are a well known podcast, stating in the episode that you've followed the case closely since the beginning, I feel you have a responsibility to do your research and fact checking before recording an episode. It's not like he rushed to put this out right after the Dateline episode aired--that was nearly a month ago. And there was no pressing need for this episode to be dropped this week...so, take your time and check your work.

Just off the top of my head--and yes, I went and double checked to be sure (for those who also listened):
--The mattresses weren't just plopped bare in the back of the pickup trucks--they were encased in white bags. Unfortunately, the bag material wasn't very opaque and the bloodstains were visible. Do I wish they had put them in an enclosed truck? Sure. But despite what JSM says, they were not exposed to the elements--they were encased. In two seconds you can find a photo of them and look and see.
--JSM and cohost question whether the times on the security cameras, etc were accurate-
filing from 3/17 pg 28--it goes through and details the accuracy or inaccuracy (and amount) of the timing of each video camera.

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/CR01-24-31665/2025/031725-States-Response-Defendants-MiL-12-RE-Make-Model-Suspect-Vehicle.pdf

--the part about AT being XK's mom's former lawyer and whether that was ok. JSM even said he didn't know if any family had objected to that. And yes, it was in the news because XK's mom had gone on Newsnation and said it was wrong--that's pretty much why that was in the public's mind. Heavens knows I'm no fan of AT, but that was gone over in court on 1/27/2023 with Judge Marshall, explained, and Ashley Jennings/BT agreed with the judge and the Idaho Bar that AT had not met the mom . The reason her name was over the actual representing lawyer when the cases were active because she was head of the county's public defender office--that was the situation for one of the mom's cases. In the other case, the lawyer from the public defender's office who had repped the mom had left the office, so the case was reassigned to AT on Oct 20, 2022 (the case had already been sentenced), and they were waiting to be official withdrawn from the case. In the meantime, she had no contact with the mom nor offered her any legal advice (again no need for her to do so, the mom had already been sentenced when it was transferred over to her officially pending withdrawal).This was covered in early March of 2023 by Brian Entin and many others (BE even provides a transcript of that hearing):

https://twitter.com/x/status/1631147203153543170

If JSM and cohost mean their show to be just a chat about things instead of actual coverage and analysis of topics based on JSM's expertise, then no problem. But that's not the impression I had of what they consider their show to be.

Your detailed feedback is terrific and appreciated. I must confess I was lazy with my comment “I tend to agree” because mostly what I agreed with was only wishing Dateline had not run with this programming so close to the trial. I often listen to podcasts all tucked into bed — I must have fallen asleep and missed more than I thought. Thanks for clearing this up and calling JSM where he needed calling. OMO.

To your point on all the other places leaks could have occurred and when: I heard a podcast (detectives discussing) on just that and am waiting to see if Mods will approve my posting. There are tons of places things could have slipped out — numerous jurisdictions/states and LE/PI groups, from admins and clerks to someone’s spouse or an open tablet, especially with so much stored in the cloud. All it took was seeing a link. Judging from your post you may have heard what I did. Moo. Moo. Moo.

Thanks again for such responsible criticism!

 

[PunishThenForgive]

Sorry for the flurry of posts, guys. I started teaching again last week (after a three-week break), so I don’t have much time to post here during the week (and have just now caught up with simply reading the posts on this thread).

I post to Websleuths strictly from my smartphone since I don’t know my Websleuths password and fear not being able to sign back in if I change it, lol.

Unfortunately, the Idaho Cases of Interest page that appears on my smartphone’s web browser doesn’t list dates and the docs are not searchable, so earlier today, I finally started downloading the court documents to my laptop so I can see the dates and more easily search for information instead of relying solely on my memory.

I was struck by how many documents are uploaded on some days.

For example, on February 24 this year, 34 documents were uploaded!

Three weeks later, on March 17, 31 documents were uploaded, and a week later (on March 24), 30 more docs were uploaded. Most of these docs are meaty, not simply motions and orders to seal or requests for discovery.

I realize this is not surprising to those of you who always view the Idaho Cases of Interest page in a browser on a laptop or desktop computer, but I had no idea.

I wonder if there is strategy behind this document dumping. Once Hippler called for more transparency, did the attorneys want to overwhelm the public with information so we can’t keep up? Feb 24, Mar 17 and Mar 24 were all Mondays, at least, so the media did have the opportunity to chew on the info during the week, but that’s a lot to digest all at once.

 

[LetsSolvIt]

Unhappy witnesses if they're trying to dodge out, legally.

Not to put words in the professor's mouth, but how she evaluated BK prior to his arrest and how she does now may be two quote different reports.

No doubt AT would like to limit her responses to carefully curated questions.

I'm not sure any of these people are eager to testify for the Defense, especially knowing they'd be called on only to say the nicer things and nothing about what new hindsight may have shown them.

MOO -- BK was brilliant in his analysis of the criminal mind. <----- that's a good report card for a budding PhD candidate.

BK was brilliant in his analysis of the criminal mind. <----- that's a heart attack in light of what he's accused of.

IMO AT isn't going to call any of these people anyway, because it opens the door for the State, tit for tat, every episode of BK hovering awkwardly, tickling creepily, following too close-ily.

When it comes time for sentencing, IMO she's going to be hard-pressed to find actual supporters. Family, sure. Maybe a pastor. All his friend? I don't think so. He doesn't appear to have friends. Former bosses? Did he leave any job on good terms?

Finding someone who can humanize BK might be a losing proposition.

JMO

From first I heard it, I found it curious that Master’s prof called parents after he was arrested, I guess to allegedly to express sympathy but by her own statement, not to advise / counsel them. In the same situation (God forbid), I doubt any of my profs would have called my parents and I had personal relationships with most of them. And he was taking classes online — it’s not like they would have gotten to know each other on campus visits. IDK. Something isn’t sitting right for me. OMO.